Forum Replies Created
So Tay Sachs is not a genetic disease?
Then what good is testing potential parents, for it?
There was plenty of materialism in previous generations.
Instead of cars they had fine horses to ride or to pull fancy expensive carriages.
Without referigerators, good food was more expensive to buy and keep and store and prepare so that too, was more for the rich then the poor.
Instead of cleaning equipment they had servants (who back then were more like slaves working for pittance wages and who could be ordered around almost like the families property).
The more servents the more prestige the people who had them had.
They had huge fancy houses on many acres of land, or alternately, top floors of city buildings that were exclusive and only the wealthy could get into.
Instead of doing hard sweaty work they could travel to cooler climates for summer and relax.
They had sailing yachts and fine fancy furniture and chandliers and huge amounts of expensive jewlry to show off.
And of course just like today, there was a very big difference between the clothes of a poor person and the fancy expensive hand made clothes of those could afford to show they “had good taste” in clothes.
Just because they did not have Ipods and high speed internet access, hardly means there was nothing to strive for materially speaking or that there was nothing for a poor person to be jealous of (if he did not have enough bitachon, just like one might struggle with, today).
In some respects the rich had more then we can have today.
They were able to buy vast tracts of land to view and go horseback riding through while these days it is considered
to be “too showy” even for rich people to have that much in a way that everyone can know about it.
It can still be done today, but it often brings on much criticism, even from other rich people.June 23, 2010 4:19 am at 4:19 am in reply to: How'd You Know What you Wanted To Do With Your life? #756311
HIE, something where I could get paid to discuss things and argue with those who disagreed.
Back then the only thing that I thought kind of fit the description was being a lawyer, but I never had the money for the education.
Even better these days is being a radio talk host like Sean Hannity who makes millions from each his radio ad his TV show and I know for an absolute FACT that I could do a better job then Hannity does.
But I have no connections.June 23, 2010 3:47 am at 3:47 am in reply to: How'd You Know What you Wanted To Do With Your life? #756308
I knew as a teenager what I wanted to do, but I have never been able to figure out a way to get a decent paying job, doing it.
So I have a low paying lousy, fear filled job, and do what I love, for free (while some others, make millions at it).
And since some will ask, I can’t get those jobs because I do not know the right people, or have any way of getting their attention.
She is “a tough judge” ONLY if she sentences murderers to the absolute maximim penalty no matter how young or old they are.
and if she has absolutely no mercy on drug dealers and gang bangers.
If they ALL always get the absolute maximum with no excises she is a tough judge.
Otherwise she is just another antisemite.
One of the best ways to encourage succes is to support the child going in the direction they want.
For example I was criticised as a kid for not going outside and “playing with the neighborhood kids” who just wanted to be bullies and pot smokers.
I had no interest in that.
I wanted to read and study science and computers and electronics.
But I was harshly mistreated and forced into the things I did not want.
Now I have no real job skills and a lousy life.
If I had been encouraged in what I wanted I am quite certain I’d be one of these google or yahoo or ebay billionairs today.
If not from the internet then from real estate, or some other business since I had all kind of ideas (I still do, but now I have to work full time just to barely cover my rent and other expenses and back then I had much more time to work on my ideas as well as the energy of youth to persue them).
I heard on the Donny Deutsch show, called the “Big Idea” (not making any new shows anymore) about a fmily that had something like 8 kids and the oldest is like 14 and the youngest around 4 or so and 6 of the 8 are already making money (thousands of dollars in the summer, selling snacks at baseball games, for one of them) doing things they really enjoy because the parents encouraged them to do what the kids wanted.
They did not give them this garbage about how “that is not practical and you will never get anywhere by doing that”.
They encouraged them and the kids who all tried succeeded at doing what they wanted.
Besides all the regular tourist spots;
Go also to out of the way places that tourists usually do not go to.
Also go out to the countryside and go horseback riding 🙂
As long as people including some of those supposedly promoting mental health, think it is perfectly valid when confronted with people saying things they do not like, to use false charges of mental illness, as a weapon, against others (like if someone says “You are paranoid, you need therapy”) because they cannot logically or factually refute what they are saying….
As long as such attacks are considered valid and supported by those who agree with those who make the attacks, the “Stigma for mental problems”, will never go away.
From what I remember learning; Ezer k’negdo does not mean that the wife is supposed to ‘decide’; “Now is the time to be ‘for’ my husband” and then at some other time, ‘decide’ the opposite.
As I remember learning, it is something that is part of nature and
is a divine consequence, of the husband doing what is right or wrong, in H-sh-m’s eyes.
It is like saying that if a stream flows through a certain path, that is where the water will go.
If the stream is diverted, then the water will flow through the new path.
There is no one paskening that Al Pi Halacha, the water
is ‘required’ to flow in the new direction, or praising the water for ‘obeying the halacha’, or punishing the water, for ‘not obeying’.
It just goes with the flow, as they say.
The influence of the womens lib movement, went far beyond what halacha allowed.
For example; In the “broken engagements” thread there were several posts actually advocating divorce as a first resort not as a last one, where they actually attacked those who said it should only be, a last resort.
No G’dol Hatorah can be found by anyone who would agree that divorce should be so readily used.
Now feminists will no doubt attack me; For supposedly saying there supposedly should never be divorce.
Or for supposedly supporting abuse (which I absolutely do not support) in the very FEW (in the Heimish community) cases. where REAL abuse actually occures in a marriage.
That is just because they like to have fake strawman arguments, to knock down, instead of having to deal with what I ACTUALLY SAID.
lesschumras I did not know you were a mind reader to know what others were THINKING.
If someone like me who has WORKED in the mental health industry
cannot know what I said and was INVOLVED WITH, goes on there then how can YOU possibly know that it supposedly does NOT happen?
The case I mentioned, had nothing whatsoever to do with the patient, being sent to any “wrong unit”. He was brought there specifically as a mental patient and was never supposed to be brought in at all for ANY reason.
Artchill you are the one expressing conspiracy beliefs, anyone who does not agree that everytime some “professionsl” says “dope them up” and someone says they were wrong YOU claim THAT is supposedly a conspiracy.
You do not talk about “conpsiracies” when companies like BP are falsly accused of trying to save a few thousand dollars on a billion dollar project which causes an oil spill.
So take you OWN advice somewhere else so people can dael with the real problems that those like have ACTUALLY been involved with that you try and dismiss as some kind of “conpsiracy” to supposedly spread hatred against the Psychiatric industry.
artchill You are the one expressing hatred not me.
And Martial arts IS assertiveness in the case I mentioned, a person who is physically afraid cannot be assertive if they have been physically abused and do not feel safe in many situations for lack of the skills to physically defend themselves.
Every single person who has been trained a marine has said they have far more self confidence now after having been a marine tyhen they ever had before.
I have been involved in more then one case where the problem was not ’caused’ by a chemical imbalance and yet drugs were still the first ‘solution’ the experts ran to.
And I know for a fact that in places where people are for various reasons, forced into involntarily, this kind of misdiagnosis, is a daily occurence.
In one well known hospital I know for exampe of a case of someone who was not even supposed to be in there and the head of the phychiatric unit said so, and still the ‘patient’ was almost forced to take drugs, just because “everyone there takes them” according to those who were trying to force this one, to take them as well even though he had NEVER been on drugs and wasn’t even supposed to be there.
In this thread is revealed;
One reason why some people hesitate to get therapy.
Suppose someone is OK and could get through life without needing therapy.
Now suppose that person growing up gets beat up by bullies and further traumatized by abusive parents and/or other family members.
So now they have problems they need to work out.
Perhaps in this case the best therapy might be learning martial arts which will boost their self confidence, not just in case of physical bullies, but in dealing with people in ANY situation.
But when they go to a therapist or psychiatrist, the first thing they are told is “chemical imbalence” and “you need medication”.
Martial arts would never even be THOUGHT of, by these “professionals”.
They have such linnear inside the box, thinking and often cannot come up with origional and ACTUAL solutions.
And if they did not have a chemical imbalance before being mistreated in life they do not have one now either, unless it is one created by the situations, which would by definition, mean that solving the problems in the situations, would then reverse the chemical imbalance (if one was indeed ’caused’ in the first place) which would in turn mean that solving the situation would be the solution, NOT DRUGS, in this particular case.
As long as people have the attitude that “well kids do this, what do you expect”.
The chutzpa will not only continue but grow and get worse.
If such attitudes were expressed regarding kids stealing money out of their mothers purses or fathers wallets, that would be a daily occurence, as well.
If a kid is not raised to have proper midos, they cannot be expected to suddenly have them at summer camp.
I do not think that such parents will care so much about anyons embarrassment at the hand of their child.
After all “they’re just joking around” never mind that there is no excuse for ‘jokes’ or ‘teasing’ at the expense of someone else.
“Sorry, but you and I are not on the same page here and never will be. Ivdu es Hashem b’simcha,means exactly that, and one part of avodas Hashem is the mitzvah of Pru Urvu. The mitzvah of being mesameach chosson v’kallah is called exactly that, because we ARE supposed to live joyfully and help others to feel joyful as well (“v’samachta b’chagecha v’hayisa ach sameach” are not just lip service expressions).If Hashem commands us to experience joy from our shloshes regalim which come about only three times a year, kal v’chomer that He wants us to be joyful in marriage which is 24/7.”
Are you giving a Psak Din here that there should be divorce on the basis of someone deciding “I’m not happy enough, and I will tear may family apart and ruin my kids lives, because I want more joy”?
clearheaded Facts are facts and no one can refute mine, and unless you believe that
the UN deals fairly with Israel, then YOU believe in conspiracies.
Well that is what feminists believe.
Even the ones who would claim (only if I argue against them)that they do not believe such things, they give themselves away, by the fact that they NEVER argue (on their own without someone like me around to point out the liberal hypocrisy, and often not even THEN) against those who do, believe it.
It’s like the Animal rights wackos from the ASPCA or Humane Society, who claim not to be “radicals (Terrorists actually)” like ALF (Animal Liberation Front, which vandalizes labs and “frees” the animals (who knows what they do with them after they “free” them) or PETA but who never actually have a bad word to say about them unless confronted with someone who points out how they are the same terrorists in cahoots with each other, anyway.
And even then their “condemnation” is mild as they can possibly make it.
“PETA may be a little out there, we just try and save animals a little more quietly” or some such insincere, nonsense.
Well all these liberals support each other and often march together anyway.
clearheaded If a wife is going to be looking around just waiting for the husband so she can be against him, she is not ‘helping him’.
That is my point.
There is a big difference between understanding ezer knegdo, and trying to use it, to promote the feminist agenda.
There is another halacha that says “do not use the Torah as an ax to cut” (meaning an ax to chop somsones head off, figuratively speaking).
By only focusing on one aspect of something from Torah, and playing down the other related halachas and midos that a person is supposed to have, that is exactly what happens.
And yet people can “quote the halacha” and look like such tzaddikim while doing wrong.
I was saying that as I remember learning in yeshivah that the ezer knegdo was more like an all or nothing deal in that if the husband was not following H-sh-m then she would always be against him.
And if he WAS following H-sh-m THEN she would always be serving him and doing his bidding.
In other words if he is doing
H-sh-m will then she should never be going against him.
It is not like “there should be some of this and some of that” just so ‘both’ are in there.
If he is a tzaddik, then she should never be against him.
If he is a rasha G-d forbid, then she should never be doing his bidding.
SJSinNYC so you are now admittimng you are misconstruing information on purpose.
I only REACTED to YOU.
If that is what you call it then you are saying this is what YOU were doing first to me.
This is like the story where the baker takes the dairy man to a Beis Din because he says the Dairy man is cheating him in charging him for a pound of butter and not giving him a full pound.
To make a long story short, the dairy man was very honest and bit nieve, in thinking that he could use the pound of bread he got from the baker as a weight in his scales (the type with equal weights on both sides to balence out) and measured his weight of butter that way.
Whatever I did was a direct reflection of what was done first to me if it was ok to do TO me, then by definition it was ok for ME to do.
Now if someone who does not like being hoisted by their own petard, wants to sulk about it, that is not MY fault.
“The Gedolim are also the ones who defined “ezer k’negdo” as meaning that sometimes in order to be an ezer, a wife must be neged her husband FOR HIS OWN GOOD. “
But it seems some only want to see the “against him” part.
Not the part about her serving him and doing his will,
when he is doing G-ds’ will.
SJSinNYC I just checked in the broken engagements thread and my detailed response to your “5 examples of abuse”, is still there.
SJSinNYC you are right is was NOT Artchill who falsly said about me;
“Aside from your outlandish and ignorant claims that women and some men too never face any form of spousal abuse,”
So are you going to say the onee who said THAT is not a voice of reason or try and get out of talking about, THAT?
As far as anyone saying anything about themselves or about others, those who support similar ideas will support each other, that does not PROVE that in the Beis Din Shel mila they will be found to be ‘one voice of reason’ out of everyone else.
Hereorthere, the reason you are frustrating to talk to is that you add your commentary to anything someone says and attribute it back to them.”
That is your claim but you cannot prove it in not in fact the other way around.
SJSinNYC ” I never said abuse was rampant. I said no one should tolerate an abusive relationship. There is a major difference. Please learn to read what I write, not what you percieve. “
I never said it was non existent but I was ACCUSED of saying that.
If others can put words into my mouth, then I have just as much right to do it to them.
And this is not a case of “getting someone back” it is a case of exposing liberal tactics of how they hold everyone else to an impossibly high standard (like with Israel) while holding
themselves to far more lenient ones, and I am exposing the liberal hypocrisy.
“SJSinNYC “Also, when you make a claim about websites and are asked to cite, you should.”
What websites are you talking about?
SJSinNYC”Arose didn’t mention the websites – you did. I know radical feminist exist, no one denies that. I also know not to judge a movement by its radicals only.”
Anyone who wants TRUE equal treatment is simply someone who wants that.
Someone who becomes a specific type of “advocate” like a feminist has a certain agenda.
I have personal bad experiences with some who have been strong supporters of extreme radical feminism and yet they never used any words like “women lib” or Feminists” or anything like that.
But they CLEARLY supported the most radical extreme feminist agenda and no one around them ever suspected such a thing because they were very careful to push for their agenda in subtle ways in public and get far more forceful in personal situations that would be chalked up to “that was their reaction in that siatuation and they had a point” (No they did not have a legitimate point, anymore then a holocaust denier, has a point when he mentions Bernie Madhoff and talks about
“How corrupt the Jews are”.
SJSinNYC “You also never responded as to which of those five situations I posted someone should stay in marriage. Please respond. “
Yes I did respond a second time, after it was deleted the first time.
I said that the issue is not what sitiutions would mean there ashould be adivorce but HOW OFTEN those truly horrible situations actually come up in a way they can be proven to be true, and not just someone lying that the husband supposedly did something,
he never actually did, just son those telling such lies can promote some ulterior motive.
SJSinNYC “Why are poor men not allowed to be judges? There was an exception made for a woman, was there an exception ever made for a poor man? “
No one by defnition, can be immune to bribes if they are poor.
It does not prove that a poor man never had the capabilities to understand and give proper halachic unemotional responses to the cases involved.
Find a Gadol who will pasken that women can be judges, then.
Why won’t anyone be able to find one?
SJSinNYC”I’m not sure if you realize this, but all forms of discrimination are still rampant. There was a study done recently where they put qualified black men and white men with prior jail sentences (fabricated on their resume for the study). In most cases, the white man with the jail sentence was picked over the qualified black man with no jail sentence. It was a fairly small study so it doesn’t “prove” anything, other than some discrimination still exists.”
Discrimination exists but that is not the same as severe divorce causing abuse in the heimish community.
And there is plenty of discrimination against White males as well.
At one point I was considering trying to get a job as a NYC transit authority track worker, and it was suggested to me that as a Jew among all non Jews, it would not take much for there to be an ‘accident’ where I had’fallen’ against the third rail.
SJSinNYC”If feminists had their way there would be gender segregation because studies have shown that girls do better in single gender classrooms and boys do better in coed classrooms.”
Wrong, in a New York coed class it showed that BOTH genders did better in gender segragated classes.
I heard this on on of the radio shows, (Hannity or Rush most likely), a few years ago.
And for someone always saying I should ‘cite’ sources I notice you did not do the same.
SJSinNYC “I’m also not sure what the point of the bleacher story was. Did you ask the father to keep his son from kicking? I would have been really upset with you for yelling at my son like that.”
I was already upset that this father had raised such a monster of a son who could even THINK of doing anything like that.
I have had plenty of experience with such types and they just make excuses for it and blame the victim.
SJSinNYC “I’m not sure what your issue with feminism trying to tackle women’s issues and not bullying of kids. Their primary purpose is to protect women. We have organizations whos primary function it is to protect Jews. There are all sorts of organizations that focus on some subset of the population. No one can fight every battle.”
All these liberal organizations get together to support their mutual causes.
Feminists also march with gay activists and with PLO supporters and with animal rights wackos.
But NOT ONCE have they EVER marched to stop school bullying.
They actively go out to prosecute fathers accused of spanking their boys claiming it is ‘abuse’ and further claiming such abuse cause more abuse to their own wives and children.
If so then then being bullied in school will ALSO cause such abuse down the line, and yet the feminists have nothing to say about it.
Pure liberal hypocrisy.
SJSinNYC “While I am a fan of Hannity, I realize he too has bias. You can’t trust any news source 100%. “
I don’t; I know Hannity is still a liberal after all.
SJSinNYC “I’m going to research the girls vs boys entering college thing. I don’t know enough about it. “
As Haannity says, please give me full report 🙂
SJSinNYCb who calls someone who makes false claims about what I said a voice of reason?
Fathers can’t be with their kids when mothers lie that the father was ‘abusing them’ when he never did that.
The housing projects became havens for the gangs which ruined the neighborhoods and destroyed the tax base.
The liberals also destroyed families withn their policies of telling families that they had to break up to get welfare money.
Are you saying that there are single gender PUBLIC schools?
Dr. Pepper, I haven’t asked a
Rav but I do not know what I would do, if a Rav would pasken that my boss could single me out, and tell everyone else they may sit down for breaks and I am never permitted to do so, if the boss decides that is how it will be.
I have in the past had huge fights with my supervisor over this and have even been sent home more then once, losing a day (the hours of the rest of the day I was not there working each day I was sent home) from work over this.
None of this has been recent, but it has happened in the past.
I really have no other place to go at my age, and with my lack of skills, no money for training and no way to pay my rent while training even if I could somehow pay for the classes.
Even I could some how do all that, if I am doing any averias the way I am taking breaks now, I would still have to continue to do so, untill I finished and got hired (if I could at my age), somewhere else.
It would either be that, or become homeless, which for me would become Pkuach Nefesh.
arosem I get my news from various sources not ‘just’ the ones I mentioned, but I find the main ones I use to be more reliable and they have opposing views also.
On the radio shows, they get opposing views from callers.
One (not necessarily the only) reason Black schools look under funded is because the gangs controlling such places make them look that way.
For example in PersonHattan in some Black public school years ago, they put in new computers which were promptly stolen.
The private schools can have separate boys from girls because the government has not yet found a way to force their liberalism on them, like they have with industry.
arosem; Several months ago on I believe it was Sean Hannity or Rush’s show (perhaps both) they were talking about the Supreme Court rulling about a case of a White student who scored higher on college entrance exams then some Blacks who had been accepted.
His suit made it all the way to Supreme Court which rulled that the reverse discrimination against him was legal.
This was a case of White VS ‘minority’, but still showed that the court ruled (at least in this case) in favor of reverse discrimination.
I fully agree with you about same gender classes only.
But liberals claim it is just like Black VS White Water fountains in the Old South with ‘separate but equal’.
They claim it still discrimination even nthough both genders have proven to learn better that way.
It was win win situation but the liberals still got it, shut down.
This definately shows that there are many who are doing everything possible to not just ruin it for boys, but also for the entire country.
This anti American agenda, is what got Obama elected.
True I was not speaking just about the Jewish community when talking about public schools, but what happens ‘out there’ still affects us too both in terms of influences that come into the Heimish community (or the frum community in general) and in terms of what happens when we need to getr jobs and work along side all those who did or did not suffer from discrimination or did or did not get ahead when someone more qualified was forced to the side so someone else could be promoted through political correctness.
As fars gangs go boys are far more likerly to join and ‘bring in the money” although these days girls are starting to get into some gangs as well.
Some gangs like some motorcycle gangs will forever be closed to girls ecause the gang members (like in the Sons of Silence, and the Outlaws and The Pagans) consider women in the gang to be their property and the harshest, most strict sense of the word.
Other motorcycle gangs like the Hells Angels do not consider women their property but still pretty low on their social scale.
while not impossible eventually it is unlikely that women will siin be riding with them as full fledged gang members rather then as just those who go along to be with those who ae gang members.
Some street gangs, in some (still pretty rare for now) cases, have women who actually fight and do their dirty, criminal, business, as part of the gang.
Of course all of them are violent criminals or supporters of violent criminal thugs.
Anyone male or female who gets mixed up with any of these gangs is seriously messed up.
I thank H-sh-m for giving me the intelligence to be a voice of reason.
arosem if what you say is true then things are starting to change in the area of abuse.
It was not that way till now.
But the abuse of boys in public school by teachers and the system, keeping them back so the girls can artificially get ahead, continues as shown by the fact that women enter college at 3 times the rate of boys and get hired even when less qualified for a job just to the comoany does not face a discrimination lawsuit.
This means that in the not too distant future, men will be treated the way women used to in the work place as second class citizens with lower paid and harder jobs because they were kept out of
the pathways to success by the feminists (who of course will always deny that this is going on just like Islamics deny teaching their radical terroristic views to children in classes at Islamic schools and in the mosques).
OK Mod, that is good advice, I will Bli Nadir, try and remember to do it that way, thanks 🙂
“hereorthere: Suggestion – When quoting another poster, put his screen name on the first line, skip a line, then put the quote as a paragraph on another line WITH QUOTES around them. (See the above edit of this post.) Then skip another line. Forget the dashes and other symbols. This will make it easier for readers to understand which part is being quoted, and which part is your comment. And it is simpler than using italics.”
Mod, OK but how do I did it when there are a few paragraphs with lines some quoting what I said, and other quotes of rsponse from someone else?
Often a line or two are taken out from another post and if you do not quote everything that said by both in the back and forth response (sometimes more then just two) people it gets confusing as to who said which quote and and trying to understand what anyone, is talking about?
You can use the following format for quoting, using a separate line for each quote (with quotation marks) and a blank line between each one:
Chaim said “hereorthre you are a great guy”
Yankel said “Chaim I completely agree with you”
hereorthere said “Thanks guys”
Chaim said “Your welcome”
SJSinNYC How about you “citing” proof that all this abuse you listed by numbers, that you think is so rampant, in the heimish community and that the vast majority (if not all) divorces are only from such abuse, and not because of women (or others), lying about the men in order to gain sympathy when they want the divorces for ulterior motives”?
And lets face it; You say “men or women” being abused but who is going to believe a 5’9″ 180 LB male that his 5’2″ 120LB wife, smacks him around or even mentally abuses him?
The woman on the other hand, is always believed instantly (Even if she were much larger and stronger then he was).
I have never heard of a single case, where the woman made false claims even outlandish claims, that were obvious lies, where she still was not believed by a lot of women (maybe not ALL, but a lot of them) who heard about it.
That is part of the onesidedness of it all.
And since those on the feminist side claim to be so concerned about abuse both physical and mental; How come abuse of children (and of adults in some cases) by children (bullying)is not even mentioned even thought it happenes every day both in school and in other places (like on the street or in shule in some cases, for example).
I remember one time I was in one large shule with bleechers for seating in some places and I was in one bleecher during an event and some kid on the one above me was deliberately kicking me, something like 20 or thirty times.
I tried moving around and the kid kept at it.
He did not stop till I finally turned to the father and told him that if he did not get his kid to stop, I’d throw him over railing to the ground.
I would not actually have done it of course but if I had said t loud enough for many to hear I’m sure some of them would have thought I was some kind of abuser, which is why kids can get away with bullying, even adults.
And the feminists, never say anything about that.
SJSinNYC; Even arosem agreed that such feminists exist, ask ‘him/her’ to ‘cite’.
arosem the liberal feminists ARE the radicals.
This is like the antisemites (who the liberal feminists support) who claim they do not hate Jews just “Zionists”.
If all they wanted was equality they would oppose special treatment for women but they do not.
Not one feminist group has EVER opposed companies that hire women who are less qualified then men competing for a job, because the company is afraid of discrimination lawsuits (or any other reason for that matter).
Not one feminist group has ever opposed the imbalance of so many more women these days entering college then men despite the fact that they ALL screamed long and loud when in the past, it was men who were entering college at greater rates then women.
Not one feminist group, ever opposed tiny undersized police women who can’t handle the more physical aspects of policing like making a raid on a violent motorcycle gang.
If they truly cared about EQUALITY, they would oppose these things and they never do.
arosem; The claims in your last paragraph are full of holes and totaly illogical.
Your argument is tantamount to claiming that Stalinists as part of their agenda as a group, couldn’t hate Jews because they had no written down ‘Manifesto’ that ‘specified’ hating Jews, yet Jews who lived under that system, can tell you all about Stalins systematic persecution of Jews.
Your other argument is like claiming the Stalinists cannot hate Jews, because others (like Nazis) also hate Jews.
Both of those arguments are utter nonsense.
Since you admit there are radical feminists how can you then claim that none of them ever became lawyers and judges and as such, never allowed their feminist agenda, to influence their practice, (or rulings for feminist judges)?
Why indeed, does Torah not allow women judges in the first place (and Devorah was a singular exception, NOT the general halacha)?
SJSinNYC it was claimed on the broken enggements thread where they also made it out like it was somethung to run to rather then a last resport when all lse failed.
No I did not make it out like “every case” was run by radical feminists that is just a false charge that feminists try and use
to marginilize anyone who does not follow or support their agenda.
SJSinNYC posts; “The Torah allows divorce. The Torah doesn’t say “treat your marriage like its disposable” but it does recognize that there are times when divorce is needed.”
Only as last resort, which is the opposite how it was portrayed by some on that other thread.
That is why they had the waters into which H-sh-m’s name is disolved.
He says (paraphrasing)”Let my name be erased rather then a marriage should break up”.
I’m glad the Torah is run according to H-sh-m, and not SJSinNYC.
Radical feminists try and hide behind equality but many websites dedicated to feminism if you are a member you get access to their “inner circle” where they admit they are frusterated with equality because they really want superiority and always have.
They just understand that they cannot come out and admit such things.
To answer Arosem; If someone claims or tries to imply that feminists never try and abuse the court system or act like
all divorce cases in the frum community are some kind of abuse.
Then they are proving the feminist agenda is operating, because
it is totally illogical to claim (or to try and project the idea even, without actually saying it, in those words)that women are never corrupt and never ever have ulterior motives, in divorces.
When I pointed out that (real) abuse, in the heimish community, is far more rare then some would have us believe, and the same people who atatck me for saying that are going on about how ‘wonderful’ divorce is and how they strongly imply that Torah supposedly does not consider there to be anything wrong whatsoever with it.
That is obvious proof of the feminist agenda being carried out and promoted, since no one can find a G’dol B’Torah who would agree with such ideas or pasken that they were kosher for frum people to have.
d a thanks, that worked, how did you know how to find that URL?
(On the broken engagements thread and I was asked to continue it, over here)
“The court hears all sides of an argument and does not assume a gender bias in the decision process. There are women who for legitimate reasons lose their cases. Feminist conspiracy is utter nonsense.”
Do you also belive the U.N. is not biased against Israel?
Just because SOME women lose, does not mean that most do not win.
And the only reason some do lose, is because there is a growing mens rights movement, that has started fighting back, countering the feminist, man hating, agenda.
What about “Judge” Sotomayer, who said that a Latina woman was smarter then a white male?
What about the Duke Lacross prosecutor, who deliberately withheld evidence that finally cleared the BOYS, of the abuse they were falsly charged with (Only with massive publicity, like on Rush Limbaugh’s and Sean Hannity’s shows)?
Of course, feminists will do anything and everything, to make people think they are not pushing the agenda, that they….’are’…..actually pushing; But the FACTS show otherwise.
Abuse of men BY feminists, is every bit as much (if not much more so)a serious concern in the frum community as any abuse against women.
People who believe the above quote from artchill’s post, will automatically believe any woman, who lies that her “husband abused her”, when he in fact, was the abused one (at the very least, he is now being severly abused, by the feminists in the court system and probably suffered much emotional and verbal abuse in the marriage, as well).
“He abused me” the wife lies, and the automatic knee jerk response is “We have to get that (so and so) put in jail, for as long as possible”.
If a man is accused of abuse, he is automatically judged Do’n L’chav Chov.
Those trying to claim; There supposedly, is no feminist agenda being pushed in these cases, are proving there is.
Because they automatically reject ANYTHING that does not automatically and always blame the man, in each and every case
hereorthere: Suggestion – When quoting another poster, put his screen name on the first line, skip a line, then put the quote as a paragraph on another line WITH QUOTES around them. (See the above edit of this post.) Then skip another line. Forget the dashes and other symbols. This will make it easier for readers to understand which part is being quoted, and which part is your comment. And it is simpler than using italics.
Gabboim That is not necessarily true.
I have to stand up all day which has ruined my feet and I cannot stand any longer without serious pain if I do not periodically sit down and take some pressure off them for a while.
I do not usually get explicit permission for this but without doing it I’d lose the job.
My supervisor and boss who both sit down all day doing nothing, and my coworkers get to sit down and do not get the criticism that I get, for doing what I must, to keep my job (and I have no other job to go to).
So while I am sitting down anyway, I often use the computer.
Also usually at the end of the day we are still, at work and not supposed to leave yet but the work for the day is done, so no reason to just sit around staring at the walls.
As I type this, this thread has 4 pages to it.
When you first click on the thread it shows something like this for the pages to click on;
When on other threads it would go to page #5 with the first post on that 5th page, often when you click on it all you see is a blank page and the actual comment may be on page 4 still or as in a case I just had on another thread it does not appear at all.
Even if you can find it might be on page 4 but the pages to click on, won’t show page 4.
You have to click on page 2, then page 3, and only THEN do you finally get to page 4.
You cannot click on page 5 if page 5 is blank and then go backwards to page 4 because in that situation, page 4 does not show up to click on.
This gets extremly annoying and wasteful of time when the last page is page 12 and it is blank and the last page with actual comments on it is page 11 and you have click forward through all 11 pages, one at a time, to get there.
It is even worse when you do that, and still can’t find that last post.
How about making the page click look like this?:
1, 2, …….10, 11, 12
That way we can still click on the last page……Or the last page that ‘actually has comments’ in it, without having to waste all that time, clicking forward, one page at a time.
Arosem You told me that I have never experienced problems in divorces and then said bad marriages do occure so even if you did
not exactly claim that women never abuse the system that was the obvious implication of your attack on me.
And sasying that real abuse by men against women is rare in the heimish community is FAR from making “outlandish claims that it never happens”.
So what you want it to “seem like” and what it actually is, are two different things.
I did not twist your words (Words cannot be twisted anyway. They can be lied about or mocked, but not ‘twsited’).
You made false statements about what I supposedly said and I pointed that out.
“Firstly, I never said anything about the corruption that may lie behind some people, both men and women, when they involve the courts in their private relationships.”
Well I did, and you falsly claimed that I had supposedly said that there is never any abuse in marriages and I never said anything like that.
“I think, though, that it is a far stretch to even say that this is the case most of the time.”
That is what you WANT to believe, that does not make it true.
” Do you honestly believe that so many people are so malicious in their pursuits for wealth and control?”
Absolutely, just look at all the crime stats.
Something like 65% of those responding to poll at a big well known University (I think it was Harvard)said that they thought it was OK, to cheat on a test.
Look at the popularity of movies and TV shows promoting evil like “Breaking Bad” (the daily lives and adventures of drug dealers).
“I think that perhaps many more of the people that you assume to be seeking out divorce deserve the benefit of the doubt that there are indeed serious problems involved.
The same could be said of those who get abortions or say Loshon Hara (of which there is plenty in many doviorces).
“But if you look back to my original post, I never claimed that people never lie to get their way in court. A statement like that would be just as crazy as claiming that abuse never happens in a given community.”
And yet in your first post to me, you falsly claimed that I had supposedly said that.
“Secondly, I think that your definition of feminism is a little off. I know that this is not the place for such a discussion, but I will just say that siding with a woman does not automatically equal a feminist agenda (although depending on the motivation it can be, but may very well have nothing to do with what feminism actually is). ”
You are doing it again.
That is not my definition of feminism.
Nowhere did I EVER say that anyone who EVER sides with any woman in any situation, was a feminist.
In fact in a another thread I pointed out that feminists were against women truly succeeding, when they did it on their own and were conservatives like Sarah Palin.
But someone who sides a with woman, when it may be questionable whether in a particular case, it is following Torah or not, and who will make excuses and attack those who point out that it may be wrong in ‘that’ case, or who make false accusations against anyone (like you did to me) me who does not toe the feminist line is obviously a feminist.
I am not so sure nothing is written down about not reading fiction.
I love science fiction and was told by a rabbi (not necessarily a rav, but a regular rabbi who I get advice from) that I should not read it or listen (at least not on Shabbos, not sure now, if he meant not to at all, or if he was paskening that it was assur or just not worthwhile, like studying Torah would be)) to non Jewish music (at all, but that was a suggestion, he did not say it was a halacha).
I cannot cite chapter and verse because they did not quote it to me.
I am not even saying it is definately assur, but something that may be, and it might possibly be written down somewhere.
I am just pointing out that is very easy to say “It’s not written down”.
But just saying that, does not ‘make’ it true, even if no one can give the exact quote.
I remember hearing once about a great tzaddik (might have been one of the Chabad Rebbes before he actually ‘became’ Rebbe.) who was in a beis medresh and overheard someone, saying that a certain thing he was discussing with his chavrusa, was not mentioned in the Gemara.
The Tzaddik, knew it was there and asked the person, “Do you know the entire Talmud so well, that you can say that you ‘know’, it is not in there?”.
Smartcookie Denying the obvious does not help.
The Feminists are the ones who rally and advocate for such things
and no one else, does.