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Yes, Lubavitch teirutzim for why they aren’t violating ikkarei emunah are nonsense. Maskim.
And that is why you stay away from Chabad.
One more name to add to the list of those who called Lubavitch Avoda Zara: Rav Hershel Shachter shlit”a. You can hear him express this opinion in his shiur on segulos and superstitions.
But you are still a Jew and I love you, and hope you will return to the fold one day.Copypasta but good copypasta:
Many people are aware that Rav Yom Tov Lippmnn Heller zt”l the Rav of Cracow and the author of the Tosfos Yom Tov composed a special prayer, a mi sh’bayrach, for those who refrain from talking during Davening. Unfortunately, not all of us have reached this ideal yet, which is why the Tefilah of the Tosfos Yom Tov was necessary.
The Shulchan Aruch (OC 124:7) discusses the terrible Aveira of talking during Shmoneh Esreh. Indeed, it is the only place in Shulchan Aruch where Rav Karo uses the expression, “ v’gadol avono minso — his sin is too great to carry.” It would seem that Rav Karo employed the language used by Rabbeinu Yona in his Igeres HaTeshuvah ( section 6). The Mishna Bururah (124:27) cites the Eliyahu Rabbah that a number of shuls ended up being destroyed on account of this violation.
The Tefilah of the Tosfos Yom Tov was composed during the Chmelnieki Massacres 1648-1649 (Gzeiras Tach v’tat) where some 300,000 Jews were murdered by Cossacks under his leadership. The Chida explains that it was revealed to the Tosfos Yom Tov from Heaven that the talking was the cause of the terrible tragedy. We still recite the special Mishebayrach to this day in many communities throughout the world.Maran.
The fewer titles, the better.
It’s not a hergesh. The Rebbe said he was moshiach in his basi legani due to being the 7th Rebbe, then dropped hints about it for years, and the gullible ones believed it.
You are believing exactly what you are brainwashed to believe.
It’s kinda funny to see a group go nuts over the 12th ikkar but make a cholent out of every other ikkar by calling it “chassidus”. Hashem has no guf? Well chassidus so atzmus. Only Hashem runs the world? Well atzmus so tzaddik gozer so the Rebbe runs the world. You can only daven to Hashem? Well atzmus so you can daven to the Rebbe. Moshe was the biggest navi? Well the Rebbe is the ispashtusa demoshe and even bigger than Moshe because the Rebbe can’t make mistakes. Oh and thanks to atzmus everything the Rebbe touches had elokus.All you need to do is substitute “eigel” for “Rebbe” for leitznusa deavoda zara. Whereas in Crown Heights they say “der Rebbe vet helfn” just say “der eigel vet helfn”. etc etc
The Steipler says in a letter to learn 12 hours a day for years. Once you do that fir a few years you will find your unique hadracha and become a gadol.
The worst kind are the insincere shushers. Totally fake “NU!!”‘s
Moshiach is a big inyan but Lubavitch “passeled” it
Eretz Yisroel is a big inyan but the Zionists “passeled” it
Learning Tanach is a big inyan but the maskilim “passeled” itChabad houses are not relevant to the question here and amount to a red herring. There are many Christian hospitality programs too. the diyun is if they are within the fold or out of the fold. If the poskim say they are out of the fold, then the Chabad houses are irrelevant
Moshiach is an ikkar haemunah. It’s the 12th. Worshipping a false moshiach doesn’t mean you believe in it more- it just means you believe in the other oikkarei emuna less.
By this standard, the followers of Shabsai Tzvi were better than the misnagdim who rejected him back then. Obviously wrong.
Zahavasdad, “who did more to rebuild Yiddishkeit” is an interesting question and one worth discussing in a separate thread, which I will start iyh. But the question on the floor is “should an outsider join Chabad” which becomes no based on psak that it crosses theological red lines.
This thread is now “we have a hergesh that the Rebbe was moshiach” vs “We have psak that Chabad is apikorsus”. Psak overrides boich svaros.
There’s another of the 6 zechiros- remember what happened in the desert with the eigel.
There is no bigger toeles than telling Jews to avoid safeik avoda zara, and helping Jews who are currently nichshal r”l escape that.Lubavitchers: why do you snags hate us?
Litvaks: We don’t hate you, but our poskim say you’re apikorsim/ ovdei avoda zara and we should stay away.
Lubavitchers:
Lubavitchers: Why do you snags hate us?Here is a direct source for what the Rebbe wrote about the Holocaust, showing he had the same views as Rav Shach zt”l and Rav Avigdor Miller zt”l, and what I showed his father-in-law said:
On the subject of the Holocaust, the Rebbe wrote as follows: “It is clear that ‘no evil descends from Above,’ and buried within torment and suffering is a core of exalted spiritual good. Not all human beings are able to perceive it, but it is very much there. So it is not impossible for the physical destruction of the Holocaust to be spiritually beneficial. On the contrary, it is quite possible that physical affliction is good for the spirit” (“Mada Ve’emuna,” Machon Lubavitch, 1980, Kfar Chabad).Schneerson goes on to compare God to a surgeon who amputates a patient’s limb in order to save his life. The limb “is incurably diseased … The Holy One Blessed Be He, like the professor-surgeon…seeks the good of Israel, and indeed, all He does is done for the good…. In the spiritual sense, no harm was done, because the everlasting spirit of the Jewish people was not destroyed.”
Milhouse, I quoted a biographer of theRayatz, Bryan Mark Rigg, who wrote a book about the Rayatz’s escape via a half-Jewish Nazi. Bryan wanted to see if the Rayatz paid it forward like Rav Kotler zt”l did. He was upset to find the Rayatz did not, mainly focusing his efforts on rescuing his library.
The Joint Distribution Committe was functional in Shangahi. There were many Jews and refugees in Shangai. Rav kotler zt”l went around collecting money with his own sweat and blood, and used it the best way he saw how. That meant litvish talmidei chachomim who would rebuild the Torah world in America. The Rayatz should have focused on saving the Tomechei Temimim bochurim instead of his library. Blaiming Rav Kotler zt”l for spending his limited resources on the litvish instead of tomchei temimim bochurim is stupid. The Rayatz bears responsibility for their deaths, not Rav Kotler zt”l, who helped save 100,000 people through his efforts that the Rayatz condemned.
Here is a quote from Rabbi Manis Friedman . Is he arging on the Rebbe?
“Who in fact died and who remained alive had nothing to do with the Nazis,” Rabbi Manis Friedman stated in a speech delivered in Melbourne in the 1980s. “Not a single Jewish child died because of the Nazis … they died in their relationship with God.”“Nasi hador” literally means leader of the generation. Obviously the world exists only for those who keep the torah and mitzvos, so we’re limited to Torah observers. Who led more Torah observers, the Lubavitcher rebbe or Rav Shach? The answer is clearly Rav Shach. Chabad would say in response that only those who follow the Chabad way count, so the only choice is the Rebbe. Fair enough, but nobody else will fall for that.
I love this historical revisionism, claiming the current Rebbe only loved and never opposed anything, and neither did the previous rebbes. I have documented my findings of pamphlets that say otherwise, both from Making of a Gadol and Bryan Mark Rigg. I’m sure there are a lot more but this is sufficient to dispel that myth.
But that’s irrelevant. Let’s get back to the point of this thread. Should one join chabad? I admit the thought of a lit 10:30 shacharis with boatloads of vodka afterwards sounds like fun. But safeik avoda zara lechumra.
Rav Shach: his secular grandchildren loved him. Clearly not the hateful man described here. He publicly took harsh stances but was much different in private.
Yitamu chataim min ha’aretz.
I think it’s a good idea to make a section of “soothing lies Lubavitchers will tell newbies”.
1. The Rebbes never attacked anyone, and all their misnaged opponents were just haters.
2. Most Lubavitchers don’t believe the rebbe is moshiach, hey just talk a lot about moshiach since the Rebbe who was the greatest man who ever lived did
3. Ok, they believe the Rebbe is moshiach, but most believe that the Rebbe died as was obvious to all during his funeral.As for the idea that the rebbe is kepshuto alive, there’s a whole process in verifying a death in a hospital. And the body wasn’t buried until the next day. Finally, the Rebbe was kind of an invalid at that point after multiple strokes. do you really want him living in such a hellish state for 25 years? It’s nuts. but so be it.
It seems I have been challenged for a source about what i wrote about the 6th Rebbe. So I will quote from none other than Bryan Mark Rigg, who wrote the book on how Rav YY Shneerson escaped the Nazis:
…[T]he Rebbe [Joseph Isaac Schneersohn] of course wanted to escape Europe and had his movement employ every means, even approaching the Secretary of State, to get him out, but when he was here in the US, he did not approach those very same people to help rescue those who had to remain in Europe. However, he did approach those people in the government to rescue his library, which he did get out in 1941. Are books more important than people? Some of the books were secular like Dante’s Inferno and books on Communism. This is a sad part of the history of the Rebbe. Also he started [publicly] condemning people who were organizing amazing rescue efforts like rabbis Kotler and Kalmanowitz of the Vad-Haatzala.
He claimed they and Reform and Kofrim Jews were causing the Holocaust with their non-Kosher ways. Yet, we see that Kotler and Kalmanowitz helped rescue up to 100,000 people with the War Refugee Board. The Rebbe felt they were unnecessarily compromising their religious integrity by meeting with politicians on the Sabbath and secular and reform leaders. So the Rebbe made mistakes and according to Chancellor or Yeshiva University, Norman Lamm, he committed blasphemy by claiming God was punishing the Jews for their sins with the Holocaust. He claims this is a desecration of God’s name (Menachem Mendel Schneerson also said that saying such a thing is a desecration of God’s name without mentioning his father-in-law). These facts and many more show how much Chabad does to ignore unpleasant facts about their history. They just claim that when people write such things, they are jealous of their movement, do not understand their people or on a political campaign to smear them. Very weak arguments and signs of inferiority complexes. So basically this story shows that instead of pointing fingers, we need to act and make a difference. Small minds blame others; big ones blame themselves and then seek out action to make the situation better.
What people wanted was a hero of the Jewish people fighting for their rights. Instead, the Rebbe just thought of himself and his movement and condemned others. He was not helping the problem, but creating more. He should have worked with [Rov] Kotler and [Rabbi] Kalmanowitz, or at least have tried to, instead of [publicly] condemning them and a host of others.
So now that I have quoted gedolim who say that every “yechi” yarmulke is a declaration of apikorsus, and a simple visit to Crown Heights will unfortunately show a very large number of such apikorsus, there can be no reason to entertain a hava amina of joining Chabad, even if they do have a 10:30 shacharis with a sach vodka and shnapps. Avoid the apikorsus. I feel very bad for them, the same way I feel bad for members of the Lev Tahor cult.
A Chabad-leaning friend of mine who was old enough to visit 770 when the Rebbe was clearly alive lefi hakol mentioned the time he was there and saw a few people davening directly to the Rebbe. The Rebbe turned around and corrected them and told them to daven to Hashem instead. While my friend reported this incident in a positive light, all I will say is that nobody “accidentally” davened to Rav Shach zt”l.
This is a problem in all developed areas.
The Rebbe’s father-in-law spoke very harshly of the Jews in Europe, saying they deserved to die in the holocaust, and was opposed to the efforts of Rav Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l to save them. And it’s chabad philosophy that the Rebbe can’t make a mistake (as per the “Stump the Rabbi” series. So how can the “heintigger” Rebbe contradict his saintly father-in-law nasi hador atzmus moshiach on this point just to argue on Rav Shach zt”l, who had 10 times the amount of people at his levaya than the Rebbe and yet never gave himself that grandiose title of nasi hador?
Even Lubavitchers would join litvaks in denouncing the crazy cults of Messianic Jews, Lev Tahor, Eliezer Berland, or Reform Judaism. That’s not hate- it’s pointing out he truth and loving all Jews, and hoping we can save them. We don’t hate the innocent brainwashed Jews of extreme meshichist chabad any more than we hate the brainwashed youth of Lev Tahor. It’s not their fault. “Hater” is the Lubavitch hijacking of the liberal “racist”, designed to change the subject into an ad hominem and deflect from the issues.
It was kind of understood that everything the rebbe shlita (as per signs in 770, he’s the Rebbe Shlita, feel free to stop and and see for yourself- pok chazi) said about his father in law “nosi hador” was meant for himself. Later he bacame more explicit and said things like “Moshiach’s name is Menachem” “moshiach miyad”, (miyad being roshei teivos for dov ber, yosef yitzchk, menachem mendel) and moshiach mamash (mamash being roshei teivos for menachem mendel schneerson). And as per daily rebbe vido #244, you can watch him waving along with the yechi adoneinu song. In basi legani he also said that Hashem loves 7, and just as Moshe is the 7th shepherd and redeemed the jews so too moshiach will be the 7th shepherd (the last Rebbe was the 7th Lubavitcher rebbe.)
Not hatred. He made the claim.
As for who said it’s wrong, Adoniyahu claimed to be king as is viewed as a rasha for doing so.
Nasi hador is a ridiculous title for a guy who had 1 tenth of the followers at his funeral than Rav Shach zt”l had. Yet he called himself that.
(Once we’re on the topic of Rav Shach zt”l, Rav Shach zt”l was rather clear in his denunciation of Lubavitch and called it avoda zara. In return for his kind-hearted efforts to save a large portion of klal yisroel from eveira, he was called “Shach” and “mibnei banav shel Haman limdu torah bebnei brak”. He was not denouncing Lubavitchers, which is a big difference. )Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l, the gadol who rebuilt Litvish America, also warned about Chabad.
That was when the Rebbe was alive and “yechi adoneinu” was sung to a living person who could at least have been moshiach based on the fact that he was alive, though the odds were greatly against.
Now that the Rebbe has passed on , yechi adoneniu has become quite problematic. Rav Chai mKohn of the KAJ used to check the shochtim at Rubashkin to make sure they believed that the Rebbe was dead instead of alive, even if they believed he was moshiach. Rav Aharon Feldman shlit”a, who is on the moetzes, has the same view. So according to both of them, the ubiquitious “yechi” yarmulkes around Crown Heights are apikorsus. Lubavitchers say in return that they are just “snags” (“Snags” being the perjorative term used by American Lubavitchers to describe litvaks, short for misnagdim) who don’t understand chassidus. In other words, yes those gedolim hold “yechi” Lubavitch is apikorsus , but it’s only because they are litvish. Of course Rav Menashe Klein zt”l , who was a chassidish posek, said the same thing.Feel free to look at chabad news websites and see how the “yechi” yarmulkes are everywhere to understand that yes, it’s malei apikorsus according to many gedolim. Lubavitchers have teirutzim for everything, but why not kaleich eitzel yafos and avoid the problematic apikorsus and avoda zara?
The Rebbe redefined the Rambam to make himself fit its criteria better. He defined “fought wars” to mean his kiruv work, which is why they have “mitzvah tanks” and tzivos Hashem”. He also interpreted a Yalkut Shimoni (the one with the words anavim anavim hegia zman geulaschem) to mean moshiach is standing on top of the beis hamikdash me’at in golus announcing moshiach. Since moshiach=the Rebbe, 770 became the beis hamikdash of galous. This is why Lubavitchers build 770 replicas in different neighborhoods- to build a replica of what they believe is the beis hamikdash of galus. The Rebb put down a cornerstone as part of an expansion project that never really finished. As such, Lubavitchers say the Rebbe “built the beis hamikdash in its place” , ie 770 . These 2 forced interpretations work for them but not for anyone with a seichel hayashar.
I’m Litvish with some chasidhs blood. I love all Jews, whether litvish, chassidish, chabbad, Yoshke Messianic, irreligious, etc. But loving all Jews doesn’t preclude halacha and knowing right from wrong.
Chossid, why is llearning chassidus so important? Why not gemara and shulchan aruch?
Gedolim attend chabad weddings because chezkas kashrus that they don’t fully believe the nonsense like “atzmus” and are fully aware the Rebbe died 25 years ago and isn’t alive. But go around litvish yeshivos instead of going by what people say hear and you will quickly see that Chabad is very suspect, and that they are at least chochesh for the view of Rav aharon Kotler zt”l that Chabad is avoda zara. Considering some chabadsker sent Rav Shach zt”l a noose in the mail, I don’t blame everyone for being silent in public. The talmidim know the truth.
The goyim have an expression- if you go after the king, you better not miss. It’s also true that if you declare yourself king, you better not miss. The Rebbe declared himself moshiach in his “basi legani” maamar. You can easily find the video called “Daly Rebbe 244” Where the Rebbe sings along to the yechi adoneinu song, so claims the Rebbe never said he was moshiach are nonsense and just for outsiders. 25 years later, the rest of us know the Rebbe was just another in a long line of false moshiachs, from Yoshke to Shabsai Tzvi to the one in Teiman that caused the Rambam to write his famous “Igeres Teiman” to Jacob Frank to the Rebbe to Eliezer Berland in modern times.
Today, with the easy availability of shmutz, dorm counselors are a must.
I don’t eat beis yosef meat ( ie “kelber glatt”, ie beis yosef chumros but also Rema chumros) because
1.Our mesorah is like the Rema
2. We currently do Hungarian glatt which only allows 2 small ririn- treif according to beis yosef but we ashkenazim have a right to our mesorah. I asked my rav if I should be makpid on “kelber glatt” and he told me no.The old seforim do NOT talk about modern Lubavitch, as the Rebbe went further than most chassidim with violations of the 13 ikkarim. So safeik apikorsus lechumra, and stay away. Gedolim said this, not just LMT in the Coffee Room. Ask your rabbeim and your rav. I’m not your poseik, neither is anyone else here. But you can look at the 13 ikkarim yourself, and see how the kashyes are much stronger than the teirutzim.
The Rashab may have been friendly with the litvish gedolim, but was the beginning of the breakaway from the rest of klal yisroel when he came out with the idea that learning Gemara with meforshim was for galus, and his “Tomchei temimim” talmidim should focus on “chassidus” to bring geulah instead of the gemara like Litvish yeshivas did. He also put out pamphlets saying the Litvish yeshivas were full of kefira. (This is in Making of a Gadol for those who need a source) .
This led to the “Shangai” disputes over who is a ben Torah worthy of the chaluka from Rav Kalmanowitz zt”l and Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l and who should rely on the Joint Distribution Committee. Rav Aharon kotler zt”l was also bitterly attacked by Rav YY Schneerson for meeting with various reshoim to save Jews. Rav Kotler zt”l responded with “I would bow to the Pope if it saved one nail of a Jewish child”. (A Fire in His Soul)
More on this can be found in the book of Bryan Mark Rigg, “Rescued from the Reich”As mentioned, Chabad believes that only learning chassidus can bring the geula. And I mentioned how many gedolim hold that Chabad as kept in Crown Heights is kefira or apikorsus. So as a good “zeh neheneh vezeh neheneh” compromise, you can learn Tanya on your own. So you are bringing the geula lefi Chabad but avoiding the kefira/apikorsus of Lubavitch according to the gedolim of your mesorah.
Pointing out serious issues with a group isn’t sinas chinam, the same way the pointing out serious issues with Messianic Judaism isn;t hatred. In fact, most Lubavitchers today are tinokos shenishbu, unable to see beyond the cult they were born into, and unable to read the ikrei emunah of the Rambam and realize how many are being violated regularly. I love them all, even as I am pained by their behavior. They are very similar to Lev Tahor followers or followers of Eliezer Berland.
you, however, are able to look at the ikrei emunah of the Rambam and see for yourself that
1. Hashem alone runs the world, not in partnership with any Rebbe
2. Hashem alone lives forever
3. Hashem has no physical form, so you can’t say atzmus melubash baguf
4. You are only allowed to Daven to Hashem, nobody else
5. If a person claiming to be moshiach dies, that’s it for his candidacy. Quoting gemaras about Yaakov Avinu lo meis or similar doesn’t change the fact that in metzius, the Rebbe was niftar and got buried 25 years ago.
6. If someone claims to be a navi and makes multiple false prophecies about when moshiach is coming (a good prophecy), then that person is a navi sheker. Not hatred, halacha.Like I said, they have forced and krum terutzim, and can fool regular people. But that’s why we have gedolim, who can tell you not to listen to forced and krum teirutzim. That’s why you need to listen to mesorah. There’s a reason the Gra refused to meet with the Baal Hatanya.
Don’t listen to me, maybe I’m just a krum snag hater. Listen to your gedolim, follow your mesorah.Mishna brura is rather explicit that there is no heter to violate other mitzvos while fulfilling this one. It’s a milsa yadua that many young drunk bochurim miss krias shma shel arvis and krias shma shel shacharis, never bentch properly, etc. As per the explicit mishna brura, Shichruso Shel Lot is wrong. The yeshivish people in this thread pretending it’s an MO cchumra instead of a mishna brura halacha are mind-boggling. Halacha bemkoma omedes.
This is forgetting about vechay bahem being doche yom kippur, kol shekein a mitzvah derabanan that is only according to some shittos.Honestly speaking, assuming this isn’t yet another CR troll thread, it’s a cry for help. The CR is NOT the place for this. You need a good mashgiach/rebbe who knows you and your particular matzav. I wish you hatzlacha.
Any gadol who spoke out against chabad becomes a target of a smear campaign to say he’s a koton. So no need. to smear gedolim unnecessarily But they’re out there. So ask your mesorah why they’re against chabad.
For the record there’s chabad non-Lubavitch that you can get into, eg the mesorah of the Rogatchover , the Malach zt”l, or others. The Beis Haleivi married the daughter of a Lubavitcher, so obviously Litvaks held of Lubavitch early on.
So everyone agrees that Yiddish is minei ubei not holy. It’s only holy due to a svara chitzona that can apply to any language, like Judeo-Fez or Ladino or similar. And you can wear a yarmulke and tzitzis and not require Yiddish to be separate.
Mishna brura is quite clear that there is no heter to be mevatel mitzvos deoraysa . Many teenagers don’t end up saying krias shma shel arvis and are yatza scharo behefseido. If you’re makpid to go by the mishna brura year round, the why should Purim be any different?
If there’s a piece of meat which many say is treif, and there are those with teirutzim to say why it’s not treif, you choose a piece of meat with no shailos over the meat which many say is treif. Safeik deoraysa lechumra.
Many gedolim say Chabad the way it is today is avoda zara / apikorsus. Chabad has teirutzim why it’s not, but why not choose a chassidus that doesn’t require teirutzim to not be avoda zara or apikorsus?
Anybody who decides anything based on coffee room posts instead of speaking to daas Torah wants to be misled.
While you’re at it, why not explore Lev Tahor?
If Jews using something makes it holy, then a nafka bayis used by Jews is holy.
Again, please quote a source for that other than “only deniers will deny that”. Your insistence doesn’t make it true. You need a source.
I do argue on Yiddish being equivalent to French. Rav Yaakov Emden came out strongly against the learning of French instead of lashon kodesh, saying it leads to bad things. It’s mentioned by the Kav Hayashar with the footnotes saying the source.
Even the Stmar Rebbe only said Yiddish is holy because through yiddish Satmar yidden stay separate from the goyim. The German, Polish, Russian, and Hungarian words certainly aren’t holy.
There is holiness in yiddish based on
1. Loshn koidesh verter in Yiddish
2. Expressions based on Torah, like shep nachas (“scoop nachas”, similiar to hseplefl a scoopiong spoon or ladle ) based on the pasuk in koheles about tov melo kaf nachas , a spoon of nachas is better.But none of that is intrinsic to Yiddish.
Why don’t you find out WHY your mesorah was against chabad instead of assuming they’re wrong?
Ein adam meisim atzmo rasha.
Used to be a guy in my yeshiva who would walk around saying “oy what a rasha I am”. I went to him and said “oy lerasha oy leshcheino. Hi neighbor!”
He wasn’t happy with that
We’re all going to the place of fire, but at 350 you bake and at 500 you burn. Keep the fires closer to 350 not 500.They have a lesser chiyuv. The Gra says ad delo yada is that they lose the ability to understand that as great s arur haman is, baruch mordechai is even greater. Teenagers need less alcohol to reach that level.
Also the concern of the pri chadash applies to them more, that of behaving like a ferd once they drink.
Here is the kitzur shulchan aruch talking about the Yiddish sefer tze’ena ure’ena. Notice no love for Yiddish here. It’s just another foreign language.
וְאִם לָאו בַּר הָכִי הוּא יִלְמַד פֵּרוּשׁ אַשְׁכְּנַזִי (לוֹעֲזִי) עַל הַסִּדְרָה, כְּגוֹן סֵפֶר “צְאֶינָה וּרְאֶינָה” וְכַדּוֹמֶה, שֶׁיָּבִין עִנְיַן הַסִּדְרָה.
“Yiddish is holy by virtue of it being the primary and exclusive language of Jews for over a thousand years. Even if it is our chol language.”
Mishna brura called it secular. That means not holy. 1. Mima nafshach you’re upgeshlugged.
2. Mishna brura clearly isn’t saying that so unless you feel you’re a bar plugta you have no mekor.My source is mishna brura 307.5 which says to say shabbas shalom, “or as we say in mundane language” (ie yiddish, the language he spoke) Shabsa Tava (“gut shabbes”)
So he spoke yidisha and called it a lashon chol. Others referred to it as lashon ashkenaz, the Germanic tongue. Teitch literally means deitch, the Germanic language.
The Mishna Brura declared Yiddish a lashon chol. Psak. End of discussion.
Neville, your protest is noted for the record. Nevertheless, Rabbi Bender, Artscroll, and my own experiences say otherwise.
As to the ikkar of this thread, take a look at yeshivas chevron in Yerushalayim or Slabodka in Bnei Brak. Neither of them follow the Slabodka derech. Rav Aharon Kotler was from Slabodka. So was Rav Hutner. As was Rav Shach. The biggest talmidim of Slabodka don’t follow Slabodka. So your kashye isn’t on the velt as much as it’s on the gedolim who came from Slabodka and dropped its mehalech.
As a reminder, these protests of “of course chassidim are makpid on zman krias shma, there’s a befeirush sign up in shul!” aren’t a kashye on me. They are a kashye on Rabbi Bender and Artscroll that published this as a davar matzui. Feel free to call up Darchei and Artscroll and ask them. Again, pok chazu. Ask the chassidim who daven at these 10 am or 11 am shacharisses if they were makpid on zman krias shma, and report back your findings.
I am quite familiar with pok chazu. And I did just that. The majority of chassidim I have met davening at these 10 am shacharises don’t care about zman krias shma. they usually quote chassidishe toyrah about mekadesh yisroel vehazmanim or lo hifsid or other such distortions of halacha. the official signs are for the machmirim but it’s not the minhag of most chassidim. You can ask them. Rabbi Bender’s book has it for a reason- it’s a davar matzui meod. It’s a pashut metzius. Sorry for ruining your temimus.
Rav Yaakov Bender put out a book a few years back called “Chinuch with Chessed”. One question he deals with is how to tell your kid to be makpid on zman krias shma when his chassidish zeidy doesn’t care about zman krias Shma. He explains how you should stress its halachic importance but say zeidy has a mesora or something like that. But clearly it’s a real issue and common enough to address in a book, not something that I made up.