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The Mishna Brura declared Yiddish a lashon chol. Psak. End of discussion.March 3, 2019 12:20 am at 12:20 am in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1688307
Neville, your protest is noted for the record. Nevertheless, Rabbi Bender, Artscroll, and my own experiences say otherwise.March 1, 2019 11:17 am at 11:17 am in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1688103
As to the ikkar of this thread, take a look at yeshivas chevron in Yerushalayim or Slabodka in Bnei Brak. Neither of them follow the Slabodka derech. Rav Aharon Kotler was from Slabodka. So was Rav Hutner. As was Rav Shach. The biggest talmidim of Slabodka don’t follow Slabodka. So your kashye isn’t on the velt as much as it’s on the gedolim who came from Slabodka and dropped its mehalech.March 1, 2019 11:15 am at 11:15 am in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1688100
As a reminder, these protests of “of course chassidim are makpid on zman krias shma, there’s a befeirush sign up in shul!” aren’t a kashye on me. They are a kashye on Rabbi Bender and Artscroll that published this as a davar matzui. Feel free to call up Darchei and Artscroll and ask them. Again, pok chazu. Ask the chassidim who daven at these 10 am or 11 am shacharisses if they were makpid on zman krias shma, and report back your findings.February 28, 2019 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1687936
I am quite familiar with pok chazu. And I did just that. The majority of chassidim I have met davening at these 10 am shacharises don’t care about zman krias shma. they usually quote chassidishe toyrah about mekadesh yisroel vehazmanim or lo hifsid or other such distortions of halacha. the official signs are for the machmirim but it’s not the minhag of most chassidim. You can ask them. Rabbi Bender’s book has it for a reason- it’s a davar matzui meod. It’s a pashut metzius. Sorry for ruining your temimus.February 28, 2019 9:25 am at 9:25 am in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1687502
Rav Yaakov Bender put out a book a few years back called “Chinuch with Chessed”. One question he deals with is how to tell your kid to be makpid on zman krias shma when his chassidish zeidy doesn’t care about zman krias Shma. He explains how you should stress its halachic importance but say zeidy has a mesora or something like that. But clearly it’s a real issue and common enough to address in a book, not something that I made up.February 27, 2019 10:58 am at 10:58 am in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1686156
Neville, you’re on. Anyone here is welcome to join the challenge. Go to a late chassidishe minyan on shabbos and ask around who said krias shema before coming. Report back. As per Neville, the number should be 0. If it’s more than 0, then the Nefesh Hachaim is correct.February 26, 2019 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1685719
Neville, when a chassidish minyan starts at 9:40 on a shabbos, ask around how many of the congregants actually said krias shema. Tell me what you find. Nefesh Hachayim made this point as well. Rav Shwab famously said about the Satmar Rebbe that he would have accepted him as his rebbe if not for the zman krias shma thing which the Satmar Rebbe ignored.
Pronunciations- litvish said Ay rhymes with pay. In Brisk they still speak of “tayreh”. Anyone who had a litvish rebbe knows it’s Teyreh not Toyrah. But those days are gone.
Chassidim say oy. American yeshivas apparently adopted “klal yiddish” which meant saying oy but pronouncing everything else litvish style. so it’s oyb azoy instead of ayb azay.
As the Yemenites, who have meticulously preserved pronunciation mesorah, say “O” instead of “oy”, or “ay” “O” is clearly the preferred pronunciation. “Oy”, which yeshivish people act as if it’s a chumra over the modern “O”, is actually a kula since “O” is more correct.
But at this point, saying “oy” is a mistake is pointless. That ship has sailed as well.February 26, 2019 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1685555
Or as silly as the shtarker litvaks decrying chassidim completely ignoring the mitzvah deoraysa of zman krias shma. That ship has sailed. Move on.February 26, 2019 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1685551
To be more precise, the main yeshiva in America was Torah Vodaas, which was half-chassidish. America’s strong chassidish influence meant that it became yeshivisah to say “oy” instead of “ay” (Toyre instead of “Tayreh”) and black and white became the norm. Decrying this now is as silly as the “Zionism is evil” crowd decrying Zionism 70 years after losing that battle.February 26, 2019 11:44 am at 11:44 am in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1685518
Neville, it’s in “Patterns in Jewish History” page 55.February 26, 2019 10:45 am at 10:45 am in reply to: Why don’t we go like the Slabodka mehalech in regards to clothes? #1685499
I once saw a statement from Rav Hutner zt”l on this. He was a slick Slabodka dresser and dressed chassidish after the war. He said that
1. It actually started with Rav Yisroel Salanter, who felt that the bochurim were looked down upon by baalei battim and needed to look like they weren’t nebs
2. He changed because he wanted to show the world what a Jew looked like after churban Europe which wiped out most of the Jews.
Also, like Berel Wein said, the Mussar Movement lost. So white shirts black pants it is.
To be clear, most people aren’t wearing that to make a statement. They wear what everyone else wears. The uniform of a Ben Torah today is white shirts black pants.February 25, 2019 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm in reply to: Yeshivas: maximizing enrollment vs maximizing quality #1685111
New wrinkle: the local schools can easily add parallel classes if they wanted to, and in fact used to have those parallel classes, but shut them down to avoid taking “gimmel” bochurim. In the meantime there’s a serious space shortage and many kids don’t have a high school for next year.February 24, 2019 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm in reply to: Yeshivas: maximizing enrollment vs maximizing quality #1684655
There are a bunch of kids who don’t have yeshivas in my neighborhood. In Lakewood they closed all schools rather than leave the situation as is. Should my neighborhood do it too?November 21, 2018 11:34 am at 11:34 am in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1628279
If you changed “Lubavitch” to “Lev Tahor” or “Eliezer Berland Breslov” in this thread, how would it read differently?November 21, 2018 11:25 am at 11:25 am in reply to: Lev Tahor and other frum cults- and don’t misunderstand me #1628260
The videos of people bowing down to empty chairs and signs saying “The Rebbe is physically alive” strike many as very culty as well., and also avoda zara. Ditto “Stump the Rabbi” videos where the Rebbe’s personal possessions are said to have “Elokus”. Nearly indistinguishable from Lev Tahor except that some Lubavitcher women might learn a lesson in tznius from Lev Tahor.November 21, 2018 11:25 am at 11:25 am in reply to: Lev Tahor and other frum cults- and don’t misunderstand me #1628253
“The answer is that the shita is correct, but they picked the wrong rebbe.”
It’s what the followers of Eliezer Berland, also a self-declared moshiach who commits unspeakable crimes, tell themselves.
So here we have 3 rebbes who claim to be the Moshe of the generation and above everyone else. How do you know which one is the real moshiach and which one is false? Maybe none of them are moshiach?
2 of them have the advantage of being alive and fitting into the Rambam for that part, but don’t fit into the tzidkus part.
Like any language, you need to both listen to it and read it to learn. As was mentioned above, there are many dialects of Yiddish, from the fake yivo yiddish (shik mir a blitz breev” instead of “shik mir a email” to modern yiddish. You need to start from the bottom up. Once you got the basics you can worry about nuance. So by all means, first learn proper yiddish, then you can tzu leyg (add on) modern yiddish.
Sheva Zucker has 2 books on college yiddish. Eichler’s sometimes has a book called der yiddish lehrer, a good beginner’s book. Lily Kahn has a book called Colloquial yiddish.
Then, you need to listen to spoken yiddish. Even if you get nothing, it’s helpful. It trains your brain in Yiddish phenomes, the same way you learned as a baby. So listen to Rabbi Avraham Karp’s daf yomi, or shiurim from kol halshon or torah anytime in yiddish.
Once you got some basics, a great way to expand your vocabulary, if not so yeshivish, is the back2 basics sichas, which are translated sichas of the Lubavitcher Rebbe with hard words and loose translation every other page. Google it and you can find a page with 10 free ones. Otherwise they sell books. Not for everyone of course but great tool.
Ways of learning Yiddish:
1. Eezy shmeezy yiddish book by Moshe Sherizen. Good basic words
2. “Back 2 Basics” sichos of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, which have a linear English translation into English. Most of these predate the 1979 “atzmiyus” sicha, so should be fine even for shtark misnagdim for learning Yiddish
3. Zundel Berman seforim stores sell tehillim and chumashim with a modern Yiddish translation.
4. There is an old Yiddish primer called Der Yiddisher Lehrer.
5. There are a few good “Workmen’s circle” (secular Bundist) Yiddish primers, by Lilly Kahn and Sheva Zucker. Good Yiddish, but disturbing phrases like “Oyf shabbes geyt min tzum kretchma” (On Shabbos we go to the pub).
6. Heinteger American Yiddish gets diluted with English words and changes spellings of some words. You can get free easy Yiddish examples from Chinuch.org
7. You can listen to the Daf Yomi shiurim of Rav Avrohom Karp on Kol Avrohom or the Yiddish mussar shmuzzin of Rav Avigdor Miller on Kol Halashon. As you listen, your mind will get more and more used to it. The first time you listen, you may barely get anything, even after hours of Yiddish study. A few weeks later, you are getting much more.