Forum Replies Created
@mods- thats just classic lubavitcher for you ; )
best defense-smear others, its been working wonders for them until now
we are getting tired of your constant barrage of nasty insults. If you would like to make a point, go ahead. But mind your tongue. You are doing more damage to your own cause this way.
@neville- lol ya you just can’t win. You stay silent you “agree” them. You say something, your ” attacking” them.
@Neville ChaimBerlin- Im not claiming to be “the victim” thats not what this is about. Anyway playing the victim is to be seen by the general picture not this thread. My point was actually to get a serious answer, and an answer as to why their menorahs in 770 and other places werent always diagonal and some still arent. But as they do best when they dont have an answer they just kept repeating the same thing or ignoring what was pointed out.
Also its not just archaeology if the Ibn Ezra also viewed it as curved, and if even the Rambam wrote that his drawing was for illustrious purposes only. Besides did Rashi explicitly write that it wasnt like on titus arch?
And even after all if the Rambam and Rashi do hold that it was diagonal, those are pretty much the only sources known and probably there are other opinions. Chabad is very selective in who they follow so its basically just the Rambam. No other sources are valid.
And why do people learn things that happened on tisha b’av from josephus is that not a problem? Was it a reliable “Jewish” source?
Your right I but I try to stay away from chabad websites like a flame but sometimes I google things and itll lead me there or something will catch my eye. Also sometimes I am curious to check their take on certain news that happen in the Jewish world just to confirm and I am always disappointed.Besides its not just the chabad site its also people I know from the past who will call or come across, and also just random chabadnicks talking on the phone or to me which I have to deal with. But ya.
And if you noticed I am not some “misnaged” just hating chabad because they have different/strange minhagim than everyone else or anything.(Those are usually people who dont know chabad well and confuse them with the tzfatim or whatever) I have no problem with that(minhagim), it doesnt concern me and I love the Lubavitcher Rebbe. But when their minhagim get pushed on to everyone and try to prove everyone wrong, then it does start to concern me because I have to deal with it.
” There is unquestionably a Chabad “custom” to go around telling everyone that their menorahs are wrong for being curved”
-Its not just the Menorahs.
And you know what? Even though you claim I am ranting which is fine, all this info is out in the open on their website so you can easily see what I mean, and its just basic talk in crown heights and chabad. So im not just pointing out things that I made up.
@DaasYochid-I dont know what the ranting would do but I would hope at least some of it will make them realize the other side of the coin.
“I do know some Lubavicher chassidim, and I don’t get the impression that they’re particularly arrogant.”
-Yes you know only some so your not really in a position to fully understand. If you were ever in the system or spoke to MANY not just some you would get a better idea.
And youre right that they think their ways are correct but thats fine with me as everyone typically believes in their ways thats why they follow it. The problem only arises when you expect everyone to also follow your ways and proactively push it on others by trying to prove how you are right and they are wrong and not accept any other views as valid.
Besides if you would ever check their site once in a while(only to understand) and especially their comments you would be disgusted and shocked. And yes, the sites propaganda and comments does reflect and affect their mindset and they are very careful what comments they let through so that it doesnt affect their agenda.
Everything that they make news out of they will always try to connect it to chabad to take credit for it and show as if they are the leaders of he Yiddishe Velt. For example Rabbi Meir Soloveitchik lit the Menorah in the white house last week, col posted the article, first comment-“Rabbi Soloveitchik learned in lubavitch cheder in chicago”. Does that tell you enough? What does that comment prove? Is he lubavitch now? Did it matter that he studied at Brisk in actual Yeshiva age and not cheder? How many lubavitchers go to non chabad cheder for whatever circimstance? Whats the difference.
Or when a Gadol passed away the comments stated “oh well he didnt hate chabad so ya he was a Gadol he will be missed”. Absolutely appaling.
No other site or Jewish sect will you see or hear this type of talk. Everyone had machokes throughout the years but lubavitchers decide to keep grudges against everyone and say Yimach Shemo on some Gedoilim or freely mock them, and only accept ones who “prove” to them that they have no issue or are “close to chabad”
@DaasYochid- Sorry. I dont know how familiar you are with the whole chabad/crown heights world. I on the other hand am very familiar so you would understand me very well if you knew. Anyone who knows their mentality close up will be singing the same song. I know noone is perfect but there are certain things that people just cannot stand anymore.
Besides I recently made the mistake of answering a call from a guy living in crown heights, and the first thing he starts of the conversation is bashing how certain people eat cholov stam, who do they think they are, theres only one rebbe, chabad is the best, everyone comes to chabad but chabad stay since they truly believe their ways and others are not decisive,chabad have a way of reaching holier levels than everyone else, chabad niggunim are the holiest, Mesilas Yesharim didnt really do it for him( since hes not sure if its chabad approved obviously)chabad this chabad that and so on until I had to just hang up.
So maybe you caught me in a stormy mood, but things I mention are from experience and reading on their website. Again, ones who have this experience know exactly what Im talking about. And they can have whatever minhagim they choose, but the arrogance that everyone has to agree with them is beyond my patience.
This is a barrier to achdus which noone else has to deal with until they come along.
@bitul- what on earth are you talking about? Im talking about the big menorah lit on chanukah in 770! Theres a picture now on col showing the Rebbe and the menorah being lit in the 70s,or80,s. It had 90 degree angles. I tried commenting but my innocent comment didnt fit their propaganda so it wasnt published.
Also the menorah by the amud looked the same and there are pictures. So bash yourselves for those years where it wasnt diagonal and then maybe move on to bashing others.
Also change the menorah at south beach yeshiva since its curved(gate covering aron kodesh)
And no, no lubavitcher is buying a curved menorah to appease those who believe it was that shape. Why would that be one of your examples haha?
Neville ChaimBerlin- Defending ones shittos doesnt have to entail arrogantly putting everyone else down who has differing opinions.
Besides I didnt attack them on my thread I simply put the question out there. I didnt ask anyone to put others down just because not everyone thinks like them. But the way they defend their views is always by putting others down and mocking.
There are many views and opinions on the Torah and others outside chabad are also entitled to have their own view.
-Chabad dont believe it was ever curved so no its not just a chabad thing either way.
And I still didnt get an answer on why they had used and still use menorahs which arent diagonal branches which Ive stated a number of times in almost every post.
Nor an answer on second Bayis since it wasnt built via miracle and apparently wasnt possible to make that shape which would hold up.
Besides im not the one who waged a war on “false menorahs”.
How come no other Yidden whether chassidish or litvish feel a need to shove their opinions in everyones face and try to prove everyone wrong? Every menorah lighting they have to point out about the straight branches.
chochom, I did not need more than a moment to think about it since your answer/defense was so predictable.
“Lubavitchers don’t boast about other people learning tanya or going to the Ohel as you say.”
“We completely respect other minhagim, chasidic sects and Rebbeim outside of chabad”
“They realize and understandon their own the holiness of the Rebbe”
-So that means they undermine everyone elses including their own Rebbeims holiness am I right?
“There was never any deal “you come Daven at our shul, we come Daven at your shul””
-Ya noone said there was but when someone shows respect to chabad then it automatically means he “converted” his way right? And how come its against chabad code to show repsect/daven/visit another Rebbes tziyun, but not against anyone elses beliefs who show respect to all Rabbanim, Rebbes, minhagim and Yidden? Is it because chabad is above everyone else- (wait dont answer)-YES!
You dont have to travel to anyones shul just respect others. Including when you are ranting by farbrengens.
@my own kind of jew- You make a good point regarding the fact that in a certain age it is more possible for technology to spread around the globe and for others to capitaize on it. Im just saying I get that technology didnt have to exist ever, but I would find it odd according to scientist theory of people in whatever form they were 400,000 years ago to not even get close to what we have today or had 100 years ago. I mean people always think to improve life conditions.
Even 5778 years is a lot of years to live without technology but there obviously are reasons from above why it only became available in very recent years and closer to the 6000 years.
And regarding clumsy technology relatively speaking, I dont think its only relative since lets face it even our basic stuff isnt flawless and you mention video calls and all, those are still far from perfection, bad quality and clumsy.
And no sorry to not play to your tune but ai am not a chabad opposer. I actually love the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
What I hate is the arrogance that you have and the fact that you believe that only the chabad opinions are right and not only that you also believe that everyone else should follow your opinions, because after all there cant be any valid Torah outside of lubaitch. And yes I know youll defend and find excuses about how its not true and chabad isnt about that, but give me a break I think its a little late to convince anyone here seeing as how you displayed your true colors on previous threads and here as well.
Regarding col Ive heard that excuse so many times but all it is, is a cover-up since col pretty accurately portrays the mindset of most lubavitchers. Ive heard first hand freely ridiculing others and the famous line “thats the difference between us and them”. Whether at a “farbrengen” if you can call it that when it usually turns into a bash-fest, 770, or even at a persons shabbos table when I was this close to walking out. It was despicable. Actually if youd like to compare “us and them”, then at least by “them” (outside of chabad) they dont compare and try to put down other Yidden every spare chance they get together.
You definitely wont convince me about your phony col excuses of how it doesnt reflect the lubavitchers mindsets because I know many lubavitchers and have actually spent time there so I know exactly what Im talking about. You will never realize this because you are part of it and will always be told “its because everyone hates chabad” or “they are jealous” or “they dont have the tanya”.
How can you justify such hate filled comments that are so freely thrown around whether on col or in person? They make you feel as if youll get some bonus points the more you put down litvishers and chassidim outside of chabad.
Not everyone goes by your customs or wants to follow them. Can you understand that everyone has their own Rabbis, minhagim, and opinions?
And btw you guys keep ignoring when I point out that even in 770 the menorah wasnt always diagonal and even some yeshivas have a curved branch menorah displayed in some form and including these public chanuka menorahs in D.C. and elsewhere which arent diagonal branches. Such hypocrisy.
” I mean, I knew that there are some people here that aren’t exactly fond of Chabad, but your comments completely threw me off balance.”
– You also knew that there are many lubavitchers who arent exactly fond of ANYONE else who isnt chabad right? And when I say many I mean pretty much everyone.
p.s.- kidush lubavitch!
Another thing is I spoke to a lubavitcher recently he’s actually Bal teshuva so he’s usually only fed the things he says which are meant to make sense in his mind, and he says that he was by theohel and saw “poilisher” chassidim. He tells me “this proves that chabad is the best. Everyone else is non decisive in who they are”. ” How many lubavitxhers visit other rabbis or ohel.
I think that ignorant comment alone deserves no reply but I said the reason lubavitchers don’t go anywhere else is because they have no respect for others Rabbis or Rebbes, and even more so they disrespect other Rabbis outside of chabad.
So it’s basically a lose lose situation, if yidden visit chabad sites ohel/770 or learn tanya then chabadsters boast “see they are not decisive and are leaving their ways for chabad”
But if not then ” everyone hates chabad they won’t learn tanya or go to the ohel!”
You just can’t win
Please check the picture on col showing 90 degree angled menorah by 770 lighting in previous years. I tried leaving a polite comment pointing out how come the branches weren’t diagonal but do to the propaganda agenda it obviously wasn’t published. Also if you look at the White House public menorah that chabad light it is not diagonal branches. And there are a few more places with such menorahs. Can someone please answer me why they hypocrisy?
@ gaon- youre right there are different opinions but chabad doesn’t have an opinion because chabad is always right in whatever they claim. Only others have opinions.
@putdown- ya there isn’t anything wrong with saying that Titus menorah was wrong. But after all was it tituses menorah? Last time I checked I thought it belonged to us Yidden. And besides wouldn’t Titus want to have an accurate depiction of what he stole from the Beis Hamikdash? I mean thats practically like taking over an advanced city and depicting it on an arch to look like a small village. Why would you do that? Also if the menorah was on display would artist see a difference. The only reason you can claim it still isn’t accurate is if you claim that wasn’t the actual menorah used. But again there is so much other Jewish proof and we are talking about the Bais Sheini menorah which most agree was round branch since it wasn’t even possible to make it at an angle without a miracle. Even the first Menorah is clearly stated it was a miracle when Hashem told Moshe Rabbeinu to throw it in the fire since it was difficult to make.
The real question is why is it so difficult for you to admit there are other opinions outside of chabad and they might actually be right?
@put- what are you talking about? There were others ever heard of Rabbi Yosef Shalit ben Eliezer Riqueti in Chochmat haMishkan and Rabbi Emmanuel Ricci in Ma’aseh Choshev (more famous for his kabbalistic work Mishnat Chassidim) Ever heard of the Ibn Ezra or MagenAvraham? Check out their opinion on how the Menorah looked. You keep bringing up the Rambam since he is the only Rabbi you can “safely” talk about. I guess everyone else before and after him hated chabad even though chabad didnt even exist yet.
How come in 770 the actual Menorah was 90 degree angled branches in the earlier years? There is a pic on col right now showing that. How come the chabad yeshiva in south beach has a round menorah gate for the aron kodesh?
You dont even know for sure the Rambam meant it as diagonal.
Regardless of anything why dont you stop thinking that everyone should follow your ways?
I saw an article on col on a peace meeting between lubavitch and belz. Comments were so hateful “we will never forgive them” and ” when belz change their golden menorah on the aron kodesh to a chabad/rambam menorah then we will know there is peace. REALLY!! Why do you have this sick idea that everyone needs to “submit” to your ways in order to have peace with you. DISGUSTING! Another one commented on how the chabad rabbis kapota was all worn out and the chassidim around all had nice new bekishes, and went on to say “thats the difference between them and us”.
Stop always comparing yourselves to everyone. THE WORLD DOESNT REVOLVE AROUND YOU!
Everyone has minhagim, why are you being mezalel in everyone else outside of chabad? And then you wonder why people dislike you. They dislike your arrogant mindset is what they dislike. Change this mentality.
What do you care what menorah someone is using. Dont you use menorahs without branches just a metal strip and glass cups? Was that how the menorah looked? You should use only diagonal branch menorahs cant use anything else right? Even the public chabad menorahs arent all diagonal some are diagonal then go straight up almost like a curve. So why the hypocrisy?
@sabba- that was mentioned already as one possibility, but again thats not what the thread is about even though some people made it about that.
True there are other Gedoilim but you only mention the ones who fit with your chabad views. And for the record you pointed out untucked shirts and beards which is a chabad reference to meshichistim and you tried to invalidate them as a typical chabad mindset.
And thanks YWN mods! smh
you obviously missed the point
You were also the first to attack me so maybe consider that before playing the victim card as is so accustomed to you guys.
“Age of people” Not “age of Earth”
Not sure why some people talking about “measuring age of the earth”, when really the question was if people according to scientists were around for so many years why then is technology not as advanced to affirm that?
Even if humans as we know it were around for 100,000 years then its funny how they would claim that it took up until the last 100 years (give or take) for “advanced” technology to show up.
So stop trying to prove the age of the earth thats not even the topic.
@putdownthegun- Well,of course you’re “not sure” what my point is since you are a prime example of the brainwashed propaganda spewing lubavitcher. My “point” is, that befitting to your word twisting agenda, you tried throwing this “false Menorah” war on the “crazy meshichists” when in fact it has nothing to do with them and showed “respectable rabbonim” (in the eyes of lubavitchers).
That particular article is from 2012 so what? There have been many other articles and talks about this subject for years later and would be on the front page of col immediately if the topic would be suggested. So lets not try to dismiss it just because this in particular was written in 2012. I suggest you look at the comments as well while your at it. The point is that this is the view of chabad regardless of col articles or not.
And my point all along was that there are many Jewish proofs of the menorah being curved branches and even YY Jacobson(a chabad rabbi/speaker) has said that the Bayis Sheini the Menorah was curved branches.
I also suggest you look deep into seforim teaching about bein adam lechaveiro which you guys obviously have none of by mocking the rest of the Yiddishe worlds minhagim. Also I suggest you look into your own chabad theme of “Bittul”, since you can definitely use some. I would also urge you to give some sources outside of chabad since there were many great Rabbis and seforim published throughout our years before chabad came along. Oh i forgot that would be assur since there is no Torah outside of chabad. Good Night.
@putdownthegun-“I don’t think anyone here is interested in advocating for the theory of evolution.”
-Ya im pretty sure noone here is trying to defend a non-Torah theory, so its funny why you bring it up. We are just discussing the bizzare thought of humans around for hundreds of thousands and technology so weak relatively speaking. Thanks for your “frum” observation and insinuating that some Yidden here might be trying to defend theories.
@putdownthegun- Yes I see you are great attorney in defending chabad even when they wage these “wars”. And No, it isnt the untucked shirts and straggly beards. It was a “posek”. If you dont believe me here is a link to your “heilige” chabad site whcih yes shows the views of many lubavitchers and if not, definitely influences their mindset with the propaganda they are fed through it. So I didnt coin this term they did. And if the topic ever comes up between any lubavitcher they will have the same response and attack the view of the curved branched Menorah. Just as is the case is with any other Minhag or view which doesnt fall into the “chabad way”. If the link doesnt get published check the col site or google it for Rabbis protest “false Menorahs”.
@akuperma- From what I understood and from the arguments of the previous sages, it seems time was around even before the sun and moon.
What about the Menorah carved into wall of Bet Shearim undergound dating to times of Bais Sheini showing it curved branches? Is that also not a Jewish source? How about the Mattisyahu coins? Also not a Jewish source? You keep ignoring these facts.
@Put down the gun- SO your saying that Bayis Sheini they also managed to make a Menorah out of one piece of gold with diagonal branches which was impossible? Or did the Menorah from Bayis Rishon surive and they used that one?
The snakes is another issue. Also some say it might have been images of he kruvim. But in any case we dont hold by that since we hold that the base of the Menorah was on 3 legs or something like that.
@putdownthegun- lets stay on the topic. We know the reasons of why the earth looks old but is only 5778 years we are not arguing why that is. The question is how scientists can justify so many years gone by at least 400,000 years and such low advances in technology until recent. We know that Hashem made technology available only until recently even though the world is 5778 which still seems like a long time without it. But for whatever reason that is the reality. But scientists who for the most part dont believe in Hashem, how do they justify hundreds of thousands of years without tech.
@770- Some chabad light curved? Then why the firece holy war bashing everyones curved Menorahs? Besides Im not sure you are accurate in what you state since all the public Chabad Menorahs are diagonal with the exception of some like in D.C. where it is diagonal and then straight up. Almost looks like a curved Menora with a break in the middle, which again is hypocrititical on their behalf because if you preach one thing then stick to it.
And regarding “the video” its not just one video there are plenty of pictures. Besides you say the new one which looks like the Beis Hamikdash, which one? Didnt we already state the diagonal as Bayis RIshon and curved Bais Sheini? And if Chanukah took place in Bais Sheini,why not follow that version of the Menorah?
Also if the Rambam wrote a note regarding the drawing as for illustration/visual purposes only, why still attack everyone? And even if it was diagonal, most hold the second one was not and it was curved!
rebyid- thats the point
@akuperma- Kabbala? Just trying to understand how the scientists claim this earth to be so old when our technology proves otherwise in how “advanced” it is, or isnt. Not trying to actually figure out how long the earth has been around. Besides we go by 5778 years.
First of all they do mean that humans existed. Idk about trillions of years but at least they claim neanderthals to 400,000 years ago. A quick Google search will tell about claims before then.
Also doesn’t matter about humankind as we know today since humankind today wouldve had to “evolve” from those previous years. So it basically took 400,000 years to invent this technology. That’s a mighty long time especially since we believe it’s been done in only 5778 years. Or less.
Yes Gaon but chabad fight a holy war against those “fake Memorahs” and they even had an article on their site a few years back with that title. Why do they insist that everyone is wrong and that the only Menorah was the straight branches? It’s funny though I visited one of their yeshivas in South Beach Miami and in the renovated zal or wherever it was there was an Aron kodesh with a metal Menorah shaped gate closed over it. That menorah had curved branches and someone I know who is lubavitch from London actually pointed it out to me since we had been discussing it earlier. We both just shrugged our shoulders in confusion.
So it’s funny how they criticize everyone when even in a chabad yeshiva they used that depiction.
Even in 770 by the chazan amud the menorah wasn’t always diagonal branches, there are pictures showing the menorah with 90 degree angled branches until it was changed.
Also why criticize everyones curved branch menorah and say that they are wrong and that they are using proof from a rasha who destroyed the Beis Hamikdash when we have so much other Jewish proof and it was likely used in the second Beis Hamikdash?!December 14, 2017 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm in reply to: Is it acceptable to go for a walk on the 1st date? #1427814
You have to show up in a horse drawn chariot to pick her up. You’ll spend a fortune on it and on her, and next date there won’t be a date. No explanation either. Your just not her type.
So all the other sources of curved branches don’t count? Such as the minted coins by Mattisyahu, or the cave at bet shearim, or any other Jewish sources?
“he says that he is specifically drawing this picture only to show there the gevios and prachim were on the menorah (and not to imply that the branches were diagonal”
Where does it say that? Because the ones who argue that it is straight branches insist the Rambam drew it straight because that was his intent. Also didnt the Rambams son confirm that the Rambam drew it straight intentionally?
But again even if that were the case that still does not answer my question why they dont follow the curved branches if that was how the Menorah looked in Bayis Sheini? Wasnt that the same time as the origin of Chanukah?
Since the first Menorah was by a Ness since it was made in the fire, and the second wasn’t possible to replicate as straight branches it was made curved branches. So why does chabad push the diagonal branches if the second bais was curved branches? There are images of ancient burial cave in Israel which a Menorah is carved into the wall and is curved branches which dates to times of the mishna. And many other images and info it’s on temple institute website. There was an article that chabad “fights fake menorah” meaning the one with curved branches. Why call it a take Menorah when there is so much proof otherwise including the coins minted by Mattisyahu haCohen? Surely he would’ve known how it looked. And again even if the original was straight branches, isn’t the more recent one closer to Chanukah times?
SO problem to shave or not? Trimming? Only keep a full beard if Talmic Chachom?December 11, 2017 7:52 am at 7:52 am in reply to: Spiritual Significance of Jerusalem and embassy announcement #1424049
Lubavitchers were so jealous that a Litvishe Rabbi spoke at the White House Chanukah party that the first comment on collive was “Rabbi Soloveitchik learned in lubavitch cheder in chicago”. What a loser comment, even when chabad isnt involved, they still have to try taking credit by any means they can. I dont know if anyone noticed but Rabbi Meir Soloveitchik doesnt look lubavitch to me but I can be wrong. Is that what the commentor was implying? Cause he looks pretty litvish as far as I can tell.
Also they write “As usual” Rabbi shemtov(chabad) was involved in kashrus along with the greater Washington kashrus agency? Really? Thats like saying some Rabbi was involved with the OU and make it look like that Rabbi was the one in charge of the whole operation in order to make it look as if chabad took care of the kashrus themselves.
So its no surprise for them to try to take credit that Jerusalem announcement was made on a day that they celebrate, again to show that its chabad controlling the worlds every move.
I tried commenting several times on their PROPAGANDA site but didnt go through.
No wonder, I mean its a great strategy to spew out propaganda without being called out on it.
I just dont get why they dont stop this ugly attitude.
Imagine if every Litvishe Tomechei Shabbos delivery would make news, or if every time Satmar bikur cholim delivered a meal it would headline-Kiddush Satmar! Delivering meals to the sick and needy! Noone else but us does this!
How many lubavs went to litvish or other chassidish cheder?
What is the point in even stating that? Only to claim superiority and ties to something that they werent chosen to speak in.
so if you say that ashkenazim might be a result of geirim, then really where does ashkenaz originate from? That strengthens the argument that originally everyoen was from middle east countries with sephardi traits and some of those sephardim intermarried or married geirim in europe and hence the ashkenazi people were born? Does that mean ashkenaz is just made up? Unless there were ashkenaz Jews living in europe at the same time as Avraham Avinu which wouldnt make sense since creation started in the middle east-Iraq/Gan Eden?
Can anyone spare a Hannukah Tree?
Wow thanks for the inspiration shlucha! Everything is always connected to chabad yay! Kiddush lubavitch!
Ya what a great day where riots started across the world and Israel against Jews. Definitely a reason to celebrate.
Gaon- I know at the end of the day it is better to cover the hair I am just bringing these examples where with nowadays luxurious appealing sheitels it is very questionable what is doing more good since the hair covering comes with a lot of side effects. A woman with a natural flat ponytail or a lavish “all men look at me” sheitel?
That ashkenaz have*DIN* typo
Mdd- I’m not sure where you get your info from, but most reform are actually ashkenaz. Just look at Hollywood or anyone famous who is Jewish they usually are ashkenaz and they aren’t religious. I am open minded but arguing that most sephardim are reform and ashkenaz have sin holds no ground. Ir simply sounds foolish especially since the reform movement started by ashkenaz and most non frum Jews in America are ashkenaz. And being non frum does not mean being reform. Reform actually believe it’s ok to drive to shul on shabbos. People who aren’t feum might so such a thing but they still don’t believe that it’s the derech it’s just they aren’t at that level yet. There’s a difference between doing something or believing that its the right way.
Also o don’t know why you keep saying sephardim violate tznius more than ashkenaz. I mean nowadays women dress slas they feel on both sides. And just because a woman wears a long layered beautiful sheitel and pushes a stroller doesn’t make it ok for her to wear a mini skirt. That’s just what I think. I may be wrong though.
Also I wondered what you wrote that was so bad it had to be edited. Because for the most part your points were pretty weak.
Reform is an actual “hashkafa” so sephardim who “do whatever they want” arent necessarily reform they are just not frum. A person can be non religious but believe in the orthodox way. So I disagree completely.
Why do you mention wearing a sheitel is better than no sheitel at all? You say it as if the alternative to sheitel is nothing. The alternative is head covering. Besides with nowadays sheitels Im not too sure that they are better than walking around with uncovered hair. They are so long and with so much volume that most women cant even wear their hair like that naturally. Many sheitels really should be a Sheilas Rav with the ones being made today.
“Also, prancing around immodestly dressed is not okay either”.
-Umm what does that have to do with sephardim that goes for everyone?
“There never was intermarriage by frum Ashkenazim. By frei there was”.
-Isnt it obvious that a frum person wouldnt intermarry? I mean I get that there are people who fail but are they still considered “frum”? Thanks for stating the “non obvious”
And why are you dating everyone to the Beis Hamikdash which came like 3000 years after creation? Werent people and Yidden alive before that? After all I am asking about originally not from times of Beis Hamikdash.
Unless that proves there were ashkenazim even before the golus of the churban.
Actually guys and gals I’m writing from an ashkenaz perspective so NO, I am not being one sided or saying sephardim are better. Just want to know if there is truth to what the other side boasts about.
And regardless of all the pretty answers given here, the bottom line is that originally the skin tone of Yidden was darker and not pale white as someone here quoted the Talmud. And I can understand that it changed but when you look at Latinos, blacks, Chinese/asian, indian, Arabs, Africans, and so on, you see that they have had the same skin tone and features from day one.
Why is it that only Yidden changed and they haven’t. Have they not had intermarriage?
Besides I was wondering if ashkenaz jews skin tone became lighter over the years naturally or was a result of intermarriage which is disappointing. Is 1500 years enough to totally change ones skin tone and features naturally? When I say features I also mean hair, as in lightly haired or heavily vehamaivin yavin.
I’m just asking these questions because I once heard a dispute where sephardim were discussing amongst themselves how that sephardi is the original nusach of yisrael since the origins of yidden are of sephardi/mizrachi countries.
So I guess the real question is how did ashkenaz nusach come about and was the sephardi mizrachi nusach really the original and does it trace back to those times?
Didn’t the shevatim each have there own nusach so how would that work?