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Dear Haimy,
There is something called a healing touch. Some doctors have a gift to deliver risky cures, with positive outcomes. Other doctors know they cannot replicate such successes, so they don’t attempt it. Doctor are not line online pundits, that attempt everything that comes across their radars.Dear Syag,
You did not answer. If it is explained to someone that they could die if they fast on Yom Kippur and the Rov tellls them to fast anyways, the Torah forbids them from fasting. The Rambam does not writes to follow the Yad. And Maran did not say to follow the Shulchan Aruch. Rav Moshe z’l even told other Rabbonim, that they do not have to listen to him in regard to eiruvin.Dear Rabbi,
If someone is married and on their own, they do not need anything in place to sit and learn. When it is your greatest value, you just do it. The yungerliet that survived Europe, sat and learnt for decades, with no systems in place. The RJJ alumni that chose yeshiva over college, assumed they could learn their whole life without kollel. Why would anyone defend kollel as a virtue, without a ‘Torah no matter what’ mindset?It is proper to remember all the soldiers who gave their life, so that we could spend our efforts convincing ourselves of our own opinions.
Everyone is at risk. Most hospitalizations in Wuhan were 64 and under. The problem is communal. It is not about what is better for the individual, even the majority of individuals. We have to stay home to protect the communal interests. Communities -especially ours- are pro life. Therefore, keeping people alive and healthy is tantamount with life itself. Saying that my money comes before someone’s life, is to undercut the meaning of life. Little can be done about the economic impact. Pandemics of this size temporarily disrupt almost all global demand. There is a lot of pain. And humans can only help each other. We cannot ignore it, or make it go away. There has been a major epidemic just about every year this century. A lot of healthcare and science was needed to control and end the majority of them. An opinion will not influence a virus. It takes a lot of data just to start. Relatively little was known about coranaviruses. The major doctors still say ‘I don’t know’ a lot. Why do so many of us here feel like we can answer this question???
May Hashem grant us salvation from all our suffering.
Dear Joseph,
You seem to have strong opinions, but you do not make your points. If we have to guess them, we will guess pointless reasons. [Because if we knew solid reasons for your opinions, we would not disagree with you.] Please respond with what your ideas are. And not why you disagree with mine.
1. Davening in shul is primarily a communal function. since ancient times, we make kiddush for everyone in shul. We have chazzaros hashatz for those that do not daven. We Teach the masses. We raise funds, and address the communities needs. Since communal activity has ceased, why would we come to the shul only to daven?
2. What does tefillah b’tzibbur mean to you. What specifically are we missing that we could have?
3. How would a yeshivah with a crowded beis medrash open? Who would take responsibility?
4. Businesses that are not essential will not gain much by being open. Who would go to a hotel, eat out, and so on? People do not have the money for extra shopping, either.
5. The determining factor is if hospitals risk becoming overwhelmed. If that would happen, we would end up in a much stricter lockdown. Would you take the risk?
6. Herd immunity is at least 75% This like a flu, not the measles. Mot people who are exposed, do not become infected. So you think we can get herd immunity within 2 years?
7. Coranaviruses have been known to infect humans for over 50 years. There is still no known immunity. Do you know this to be false?Dear Common,
If your son was done with yeshiva, and his Rebbe said he would grow by moving on, would face pressure from your friends and family to leave him in yeshiva?I could check back when I have girls going through their system. With boys, I see this in my group everyday. Boys are being told to move on or take a break from yeshiva. And their parents cannot overcome the pressure.
Dear Milhouse,
I “managed Shabbos without meat many times”. That is how I discovered what Shabbos is about. Let everyone enjoy their dream wedding. They have my pity. Because learning the Torah’s idea of marriage, is a far greater joy than marrige itself.Dear Joseph,
Thank you!P. S. Sam – I find that very helpful. But Ubiquitin changed my mind.
Send regards to Just!!!!!!!!
Dear Joseph,
Kollel is not a system. Someone who is married, and needs a system to learn all day……….. I am disgusted when my yeshiva friends are surprised to see working men, learning all day on legal holidays. Which leads to my point. If we are talking about to much materialism in kollel life today, then we missed the point. Someone who is learning Torah all day, does not see any merit in extra materialism. Which means that we are not being raised to learn all day. Only to stay in the Beis Medrash. Which is great. We could become the janitors and administrators of the kollel.Dear Syag,
Are you insinuating that the Torah wants us to follow a Rov, instead of looking out for ourselves? If so, please enlighten us. A lot of commenter had to back off their agenda, because they could not make that statement fit their case.Dear Just,
It does not work. There has to be a serious reason to have minyanim. You just dump people into a minyan and claim to have tefillah b’tzibbur. We can’t force Hashem to answer us. Especially, if there is no focus on both davening, and joining the t’zibbur.I propose we could all remember Dvir Sorek. A yehiva bachor who was enlisted in the IDF, but never served. He was killed in an ambush by the bus stop returning from buying seforim in Yerushalayim. YZ”B
I do not give two hoots for the Zionism, anti-Zionist debate. But this conversation makes clear what anti-Zionism is about.Just on Tuesday.
“It’s a viable halachik way to tap into the tremendous koach of tefillah b’tzibbur.
Just on Wednesday.
“Rely on a kula to have tefillah b’tzibbur.”Dear Catch,
Sounds right. Moshe Rabbeinu received the taryag mitzvos on Har Sinai etc. [Machlokes Rebi Akiva & Rebi Yishmael.] I never heard much else.Dear Catch,
Torah is studied. The question is how do I approach what I do not understand. We seem to agree that we accept what is uncomfortable to us. Did I get that right?Nothing on this thread is remembering any soldiers. We are enforcing motives that we never bother to expain yo ourselves.
Dear Just,
If a father goes to the neighborhood shul without a seat for his boys, maybe it is better to have a minyan on porches so that the boys can attend. No loshon hora in shul this way. The men are already home shabbos morning, and do not get intoxicated in shul.
For me, the answer is that there is no way a porch minyan is teffilah b’tzibbur, it can only be a minyan for kaddish and so on. But for you that halachic justification create this amazing koach,you can pick any of the above reasons.Dear Catch,
You are correct in the academical sense. But here we do not have any specific knowledge against this medrash, just we felt it was not right to bring it up. I think that was what bothered Milhouse. Just because it makes uncomfortable is not a permission to reject it. Personally, I do not think the medrash is backing up Someone’s explanation.Dear Milhouse,
Like Joseph said, the gemara applies it to the government. It could be your thinking of the law of holding onto documents for 40 years to prove ownership. I think that is a governmental law, because it only applies to real estate, which was the essence of taxes then. Even if you are correct, you stated that the officers of the corporation, would have to do a kinyan. So, who owns the inventory?
I wish we could go through each part at length, but that is not likely to happen. I only commented, because I thought it was being said that a corporation, owns the inventory because dina demalchusa.Dear Syag,
Thank you for concern. I really mean it. I will not demean any Rov, even if someone says he is not worthy of being called a Rov. But respect for the Rov, does not include following everything, or even anything he says. I was taught to respect every person, should I follow them all? People think that they need to vouch for their Rav. “He is great, we must follow him.” The opposite seems truer. The Rav needs to vouch for his followers. “You can trust that one. He knows what I say. And he won’t misrepresent me.”Dear Anonymous,
Yeshivos always had slightly more than the “best” and “future” leaders. The main difference is lentgh Two years in kollel, totals ten years in yeshivos! There were overqualified rabbonim that were in yeshiva for less!Dear Common,
I totally agree with you. But parents continually put their boy s back into yeshiva, instead of looking for alternative ways to grow. If the bachur is ready to go on is own, there is still tremendous peer pressure to be in yeshiva. Even more on his parents to get him into one. That is where we end up with entitlement. “Your son has to be in yeshiva.” There used to be options. and people respected their peers decision of what to do with their own son. I was refering to girls, as I do not know much about how this correlates in Bais Yaakovs.Dear Common,
I think Chaim was not specifically talking about support, as much as what a large role money plays in the whole process. he was always trading money for values, and values for money. This was a wake up call. He wants to value his family, and not by their happyness.Dear Yisroel.
Da’as torah is the property of the Torah, not any person. The great people that you mentioned had much personal contact with even assimilated Jews. Rav Shach said Tehillim for the Rebbe when he suffered the stroke. I heard from three major Roshei Yeshiva from the last dor, the whole story of the splits in Agudah. Chabbad was the central issue. None of them mentioned heading away from tradition. What your hinting to, never happened.Dear Haimy,
The people who decide the overall benefits, are just catching their breath after a month! They are still to busy to explain to every individual what the merits are. Ask again in 5 years. The danger to any single person, was never that great. The threat to the public health system, is still a very big problem. And, will continue for about 2 years. [the last line is a guesss from people who study this their whole lives.]Dear Common,
My responses were not getting through. So, things that changed. I’m fine.Dear Nurit,
It would be wonderful if we where made up of 90% Baalei Teshuva. The more money, less values, path, is the widest path right now. The fundraising is everywhere. Though not all are as caught up in it as Chaim was.Dear Sam,
Does my gadol decide, or yours? Kidding. Large teshuva gatherings are not an option. If one did not figure out to do teshuva on his own, the Gedolim cannot convince him either. We have no one to blame this time.Dear Sam,
A lot of good points here. But to answer your question, the options are gone. It used to be, that college or work at 18 was a serious option. Just being in yeshiva was not. Today, every boy is entitled to be in yeshiva until at least marriage. It is more about becoming a yeshivishe yungerman than studying Torah. Going out of town is for serious Torah students. staying in town is to become more yeshivish.OIY! There is a specific mitzvah for almost every aspect of choshen mishpat! Dina D’malchusa does not define the concept of ownership. If we accept the idea of a corporation, then the inventory is not owned by any person. Because, who would make the kinyan?
Dear Milhouse,
What pshat meant to the Rishonim is complicated. It is a simple truth that they did not feel beholden to midrashim, including the drush of the Talmud. Realize, that they had a lot more midrashim than we do. Including some that where written by their own contemporaries. (Some midrashim quote the Rambam etc.)Dear Milhouse,
The most accepted view of how to treat statements of Chazzal is Ramban Al HaTorah. The Ibn Ezra openly refutes midrashim & piyutim. The Ramban allows that. The Ramban objects when it appears that Rav Avraham is intelligent for doing so.(i. e. It seems he knows better than the medrash. As opposed to simply being unaware what the medrash could mean. Of course the Ibn Ezra was exceedingly humble about these things. But not every casual reader is aware of that.)Dear Milhouse,
The Rambam in Perek Chelek that you quoted is against those that assume the words of Chazzal are what they intended to convey. You seem to advocate for that. The Zohar generally explains pesukim in line with the literal understanding. I am not familiar with the Zohar refering a passuk to a sfeirah; The meforshim take the Zohar to be understood that way.(More like a sefirah to a passuk,)Dear Milhouse,
A medrash that is quoting whole sections of other midrashim was compiled later. Also, when the names are random and not chronological, it means that it was not put together in person. Third, when there is no mention of the activity of the Beis Medrash, that means it was done in private. I hope we could agree that no Jew would have the audacity to publish an anonymous private work, when the Yeshivos in Bavel were thriving as the Torah Centers of the World.Dear Milhouse,
You were so kind as to give us the full statement. It is clearly a quote from somewhere else. It does not imply that this is a reson to explain or cause a mageifah. For that we have to look elsewhere. It is not here.Dear Chaim,
I read your post. You seem to have followed the trail, and it works with money and little values. So, why do you suggest removing the money aspect by marriage? Marriage is where money is only a side issue. To make marriage fit the pattern of the rest of our life cycle, we inflate the money aspect of shidduchim. How about removing the money BEFORE shidduchim? Maybe the Mir could make it better known that those that support the Mir are not deserving of mention together with those that study there. May you merit to rejoin the latter.It seems like for the sick to eat on Yom Kippur, we are supposed to ask Joseph, if we should ask Reb Eliezer if we should follow the Mattersdorfer Rav Z”L.
Dear Catch,
i do not have the Igros with me, i can’t look it up. It seem to my memory that it is negotiable, but the reason was not impressive enough. Other teshuvos from Rav Moshe clearly “negotiate” different purposes in tefilla. I recall a teshuvah that it is possible to prefer to daven maariv alone after dark.Dear Someone,
To make your point, based on this Medrash, we would need to find where Rav Chanina said his statement. It seems very likely that the Darshan never intended as the cause for a plague.Dear Milhouse,
This specific Medrash is newer than most. It would be an older medrash if would be equivalent with Talmud Bavli. This appears to have been composed toward the end of the Gaonim. Mabye later.Dear Common,
If there is a novi today, why do you assume that we would know about him/her? The neviim stated that Hashem always reveals what will happen BEFORE He enacts His Word.Dear Yichus,
You mean the mitzva of V’chai Bahem. Also, we are required to feel the suffering of all yidden.Dear Milhouse,
Just because a statement is cited in the medrash, that does not automatically make it relevant to today. To me, one is only guilty of dismissing Chazzal, when they say no one said that, or that did/will not happen.Dear Milhouse,
The ma’amar is not ancient origin, I was wondering why you call it a ma’amar chazzal. If you are referring to the statement of Rav Chanina, can you supply the original? I only have an old print with me, and am unsure if it the same one from Parshas Noach.Dear Joseph,
What?!? Assuming that the doctor explains that it could be fatal, why am I asking a Rov? Of course, I would eat on Yom Kippur! Those that died from fasting were incorrect.Dear Joseph,
I beg you to explain the basis of your outlook. What does it mean to not pick your Rabbonim? Everyone I know formulates their questions, finds or randomly chooses someone to ask, without asking whom to ask! Even more shocking, if they feel like they are not getting clarity etc. they will go ask someone else until they are satisfied!!!!!!!!! Please respond, because you bring this up on every topic.Another reason not to make every point into a decision of which Rav is right.
It seems like we had honest conversations about davening, before we got involved with halachos of porch minyanim.
Dear Milhouse,
How does a statement become a maamor chazzal? I am offering to print your statement in my next sefer, if that is what it takes. Someone stated something that we feel should have been left unmentioned. The fact that the idea is printed doesn’t give him license.