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March 24, 2021 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm in reply to: Can Yeshivish families make aliyah with school age children? #1960389
While nothing in life is simple, things are often complicated by those that make it complicated. The difference between families that succeed and fail in aliyah has more to do with their attitude than their family/parnassah circumstances. People with a cynical attitude who are unable to be flexible will certainly have a hard time. People with difficult life circumstances and older children can succeed if the family has a positive attitude, and willingness to be flexible and roll with the punches.
There have been tremendous changes in the last 10-15 years. Bet Shemesh is a town that has more Jews than Monsey, and will be doubling its size in the next couple of years. Bet Shemesh has exactly the type of yeshivish that rational described. There are also many more affordable places that have an out of town vibe, but require more israeli integration.
Most children do learn the language and adapt. Average children below the 5th grade pick up the language in 3-6 months. The older children take longer, but eventually they pick it up. Most do NOT move back to the states. Since I moved to EY, perhaps less than 1% of the people I met expressed a sentiment that they would want to move back to the US. Amongst frum Americans, there is a very high satisfaction rate of those living here. That does not mean that it is a rose garden, but life satisfaction overall is very high.
There are several schools that offer limudei chol for high school, and they have dorms for families that live further away. Many people are happy with these schools. There are also a growing number of vocational training programs for chariedim, that do not require one to go to a high school with limudei chol. Specifically IT and computer related fields dont require formal high school education, pay very well, and have programs for chareidim.
While no one supports breaking up a family, you can go along way by creating a positive atmosphere in the home about aliyah. Shabbos stories about EY, music, pictures, food, and just talking about EY in a positive way can go a very long way in bringing other family members on board, gradually. It took me quite a while to get my wife on board, but now that weve lived here for a few years, she is happy here.
You are ultimately in control of your own happiness. You have the power to chose to be happy or not be happy. If you are a flexible person with a modest outlook, and you want to come to EY for the right reasons, there is no reason in the world why you cant succeed and be happy here, regardless of personal circumstances. Will everything be smooth and easy- absolutely not. But if you realize that EY is a tremendous gift, and you appreciate the gift, and you are willing to go with the punches, there is no greater joy than living here- even with all of the problems. Although American chareidim are still a small minority, they have built up enough yeshivos and mosdos for themselves and their children to be self sufficient. The more people that come, the more options that will open up.
Dont get discouraged by the 1% that moved back to the US and are bitter. Talk to the 99% of those that are living here and can tell you the facts from a positive perspective.
The key to shmiras einayim starts in your mind. If you guard your eyes, but allow your mind to be a hefker, then you are bound to stumble.
You can not dwell on inappropriate thoughts- and if they come up, just ignore, and don’t allow yourself to indulge in letting them fester in your mind. Dont allow inappropriate thoughts to linger. Each time they arise, ignore them, tell yourself that you have to ignore them, and move on.
1) Take your glasses off when you walk outside
2) Learns a few minutes of halachos of shmiras einayim daily- there are a few good books- check local book jewish book store.
3) Install a white filter like yeshiva-net at home.
4) Get an old fashioned cell phone. Have a computer at work and white filter-yeshiva net at home. For calls use an old fashioned cell phone- not a smart phone.
5) Keep Busy- Try to have a morning and night seder- work out if need be. Downtime is the worst thing for shmiras einayim and kedushah.
6) Mechazeik others, that will make you stronger- since nobody likes feeling like a hypocrite.
I grew up non-observant, while simultanesouly attending MO day school through high school, and eventually ended up “american haredi,” started off learning in kollel and then went to work. I asked myself the same exact question that the original poster brought up—-
“What is the difference between a working Haredi and a working MO- both spend 90% of their waking hours at work, learn a little and go to shul. So whats the difference????
I will tell you the difference.
Out of my class of about 150 in my MO high school, about 20-30 are still “shomer shabbos and shomer kashrus”. How many of them learn torah on a daily basis- maybe 15. Out of 150.
Do Haredi schools have kids going off the derech, sure, a large amount, but nothing close to what is happening at MO schools.
In short, the difference between the MO guy who works and goes to shul is a success story, he is among the top 10% that made it out of the system alive. Having made it out of the system, you are right, there is not SO much which differentiates him from Haredi working.
What a wide spectrum of views. Zionist, anti-zionist, and everything in between. However despite all of our differences, cant we appreciate what we DO have in common. We are all a bunch of batlanim that sit on internet chat rooms instead of spending our time living up to the ideals that we purport to be advocating.
Instead of bashing each other, akuperman and kjchusid- spend some time learning a little torah. And to you armchair zionists, why dont you make aliyah, and help build up the country instead of waisting your time fighting satmar tuna baygels on-line.
In the sausage aisle.
1/4 clove of peeled garlic
half a lemon; squeezed
tablespoon of salt
1 standard size pack of dry chickpeas
black pepper- a couple pinches
couple pinches of cumin
olive oil- (add based on desired thickness)
You cant ask a kasha on a maisah.
Check out the Kaver of Shem and Ever in Tsfas.
Take a dunk in the mikvah of Avraham Aveenu in Hebron and Daven neitz by maaras hamachpela.
Check out the Shul/Mosque by the Kever of Shmuel Hanavi outside of Ramot in Jerusalem.
Take a hike through Lifta behind the central bus station in Jerusalem and take a swim in the natural mikvah.
For sure daven kabbalas shabbis by the kotel, go to a few tisches that night like Belz, Dushinsky.
For a beautiful view, I might check out Mitzpe Ramon, although there is not much else there and it is a long drive.
I dont really hear the kasha….. Obviously yes….
I dont chap… I am from NY. Here even the most frum chareidim vote in elections for goyim that support toeivah lifestyles, abortions, and other issues that are very anti-Jewish, and justify it to themselves since the liberal politicians support food stamps and other government programs for the needy.
In Eretz Yisrael, the government provides money directly to yeshivas, something unheard of in America, and yet many still refuse to vote.
The same types of people who live in america should also not vote, so as not to show support to a anti-Jewish, anti-Torah and unethical liberal democratic politicians, yet they do.
Any advice for Meshuluchim going on vacation?
Most belated response to a post. I am baffled when I see someone make a response two minutes ago to something that was last responded to years ago.
Halacha and politics have a way to get intertwined. Today, just as in the times of the Baryonim, there were Halachic authorities that ruled in favor of either side. I am positive that no one ever made a political claim, without some sort of halachic backing.
If halacha and politics were so clearly distinct, you wouldnt have the halachik issue of whether ascending to the Har Habayis split almost perfectly down political lines.
He lived in Russia, Israel and Monsey NY. When he was in Israel he was a chavrusa of Rabbi Yitzhak Zilber, the famous Gadol of all Russian Baal Teshuva Jewry. Together they had a seder in the middle of the night for a ew hours.
I am new to the CR, and I posted a question expecting a debate on a little discussed topic, with the possibility of discovering some Jewish sources which might shed light on the topic. Instead, this has devolved into some sideshow rhetoric debate.
Instead of Coffee Room, they should just call this chat room “knitpicking room.”
Given this is a chat room, but nevertheless, I must say that I am both baffled and impressed at how much free time and ability you have to make such in depth critical responses to a simple post about a song someone likes.
If I didnt work, and spent all day browsing through posts in CR and responding to all of them in the way that Randomex does, I would not be able to match a small fraction of his/her work, either quantitatively or qualitatively.
So I say to you Randomex, Kudos.
A bar mitzvah is a religious ceremony that young jewish men spend years in preparation for…to think that a dog is worthy of such a ceremony is just…insulting
There is a great yeshiva in Monsey, NY for Israeli Baalei Teshuva called Ohr Yisrael. It is litvish oriented. There are also Yekkei shuls in monsey as well.