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Bizman Hazeh there is no issue of being a vegetarian. When the Beis Hamikdash is Kayam everyone will need to eat a bit of meat on Yom Tov.
The survey was poorly done and skewed the results in favor of a receiving an antisemitic answer.
DY: I have had occasion to meet girls who are very Tzanua people even if everything is not always covered properly. I have met girls who keep everything covered and yet aren’t Tzanua. And, of course, I have met Tzanua girls who cover everything and (well, the fourth category doesn’t need to be named).
At the end of the day, while the third category is obviously the ideal, the first category are the girls who are, for the most part, going to be more conscious of Halachah and will raise their kids to be Yirei Shamayim (over the second group, and probably come pretty close to the third). The Halachos are what they are for a reason, because of how people react to seeing certain things. But the fact is, that teaching Tzniut as a proper way to act stems from acting properly, as you said. The girl who is modest but shows part of her knee sometimes will more often than not be more of a Bas Yisroel than the flirty girl who wears long skirts. I’ve learned to ignore the technical details of what is worn (unless there is a real breach of Tznius, in which case I ignore the person) because, at the end of the day, an inch here or there does not define a person (though several inches might).
HaLeiVi: If that’s really the idea then why weren’t there bonfires between R’ Shimon and the 17th century? (And if you want to say because the Zohar wasn’t revealed until the 1200s, then you still have several hundred years of no celebrating to figure out).
Avram: For example, firefighters and EMT workers in Israel had to be organized and ready to go at a moment’s notice, which meant preparing a few hours before Shabbos ended. That couldn’t have been done on Friday.
LF: I said it’s become standard practice. We just don’t really understand why. If you’ll agree to that about some other holidays then Shalom Al Yisrael. 🙂
It’s a serious Halachic issue that many Poskim in the 18th century were against but has somehow seemed to become standard practice.
Git: Your translation of “Simcha” as “enjoyment” is not correct. And no, we are discussing whether “Halachah clearly dictates that any type of music causes us enjoyment and makes us happy”. You, apparently, see no need for discussion as you know everything here so much so that you think a discussion of the topic is inappropriate. Halachah is not Ish Kol HaYashar B’einav Ya’aseh. It’s a discussion because you can’t just come out of nowhere and think you know everything, certainly without a source. The Maskana of the discussion might be like you. But it is not inappropriate to try and actually determine the Halachah. That is ridiculous.
Cherrybim: I have a Shulchan Aruch (OC 560:3, I think) that says that music is Assur all year round.
DY: If I recall correctly (though I do recall having trouble understanding the T’shuvah, which I probably haven’t seen in a decade now), Igros Moshe YD 2:56 seems to Pasken like the Rama that music is only Assur if one listens to it when he wakes up and goes to sleep.
Git: That is an awful an incorrect attitude. If it’s Muttar, it’s Muttar. Do you shower at all suring Sefira? How could you ever think of showering when you should be in such mourning? Obviously, there are limits. And there is nothing wrong whatsoever in asking and trying to determine those limits. Nihugei Aveilus of Sefira are not even a Din Mid’rabannan. They are inherently very Meikil. You’re not “missing the point” if you try and figure out what the limits are.
That all being said, DY is absolutely correct when he points out that, in general, the Minhag was accepted very, very widely (certainly 20 years ago this was the practice) of not listening to any music during Sefira.
DY: I hear. I always get those two confused. Especially because the Mahari Weil quotes the Maharil on just about everything.
Pixelate: One slight point. I think that if you hold “second half” of Sefira, you are not mourning for R’ Akiva’s Talmidim. You are mourning the slaughter of Ashkenaz in the Crusades.
PAA: When the Rama says L’histaper, he means a haircut. Everyone had beards back then anyway. So there’s not such a lack of Kavod Shabbos if a beard is a bit unkempt after a month without trimming it.
However, nowadays when people are clean-shaven, there is certainly a P’gam in Kavod Shabbos if one has a scraggly quasi-beard that just looks awful. Those Poskim who allow shaving every Friday during Sefira don’t think they’re arguing on the Rama. They say the Rama is talking about a different Metzius. Ain Hachi Nami, they hold that people with beards cannot trim them on Fridays L’kavod Shabbos.
oy: A Rebbe of mine once told the story that he found out a Talmid was learning in the bathroom. The Talmid’s logic was very simple. If more learning=more Olam Haba, then why should he lose out just because he has to go to the bathroom.
The answer is also very simple. Torah is about much more (and much less) than gaining knowledge or even gaining an understanding of HKBH. It is because Hashem wants us to, which is both the simplest and most complex reason imaginable. Hashem doesn’t want us learning or checking our email during Davening. I would not be so brazen as to guess which is worse. I could definitely hear that learning during an Assur time is both a Bizayon to the learning and the Davening, though, which would make it worse than checking email, which is just a Bizayon to Davening.
The Rama says that one may get a haircut on Friday if Lag BaOmer is a Sunday. The reason he gives is Kavod Shabbos.
However, R’ Schachter points out that the Rama’s source (I think it’s a Maharil) is explicit that the reason isn’t Kavod Shabbos. The reason is that the Christians would not let anyone get haircuts on Sundays (Blue Laws such as this still apply in some states in the US, actually) and that we will not force this Minhag on people more than the bare minimum. Thus, in such a year as this, you can get a haircut on Friday. So, R’ Schachter says, nowadays there is no reason to permit haircuts on Sundays (I assume he is unaware that some states still have these laws and it’s possible that if you live in such a state that you could get a haircut on Friday).
The irony in all of this is that R’ Schachter holds that a normally clean-shaven person may shave every Friday during Sefira L’kavod Shabbos.
Assuming the music isn’t inappropriate, it’s no more Assur than non-inappropriate non-Jewish music is all year round.
HaLeiVi: Of course. That is the point. It shows the Niflaos of our perfect Creator. In fact, us understanding the intricate world says a lot more about the existence of God than incomprehensible randomness ever could.
In general (and I’m not saying this is what the OP is doing), I don’t like it when people attempt to prove God by showing what science can’t explain. As a friend once put it, this is called the “God of the Gaps”. The basic logic is that something isn’t natural, it’s supernatural, hence it must have been made by God.
As science discovers more and more about the world around us, the God of the Gaps is getting smaller and smaller. Maybe there are parts of the Briah that don’t fit in within the rest of the natural order and can’t be explain, but to pin the belief in the existence of God on that fact does run the risk of eventually having no god remaining as the gaps are all filled.
The need for a God of the Gaps is a Christian idea, anyway. There is nothing in Yiddishkeit that precludes the idea of HKBH establishing a world with entirely set rules. Creatures are all interrelated at some genetically because that’s how an environment works. To quote that same friend of mine, “God found a genetic blueprint that works best for creating living creatures; why would He do something different for some of them?” We believe in a God that created a beautiful world all around us, that has rules of nature that we can study and understand and utilize to better this world because of that understanding. None of that would be possible with a nonsensical environment.
So while I think there is tremendous Tachlis in pointing out Niflaos HaBorei in this world, I think we do lose more than we gain by taking shots at scientists along the way.
LF: Again, those are of my own humble opinion. Maybe yes maybe no. Another MAJOR consideration is of another’s view of this individual. In a shul, together in a minyan. It also has to be considered. It’s a TERRIBLE chilul HaShem in my view. Hey look there, there’s a guy playing on his toy during Davening. Maybe I too don’t have to exert myself so much…
I disagree. You wouldn’t say the same about someone using a Siddur. “Oh look, he’s reading a book instead of Davening.” People know that phones have Siddur apps. People know that phones have airplane modes. Whenever I see someone on a phone in Shul, I automatically assume he’s Davening from it. What else would he be doing? Now, the person with a phone in his pocket who runs out when it starts buzzing… (Well, hopefully his wife is in labor.)
The one app that I saw is really cool. It changes based on the day (e.g. adds Al Hanisim on Channukah) and, supposedly, doesn’t work on Shabbos or Yom Tov.
PBA: Koifer Ben Koifer!!!!!!!!!!
We don’t have the knowledge to figure anything out. Chazal and the Rishonim knew everything that ever was and will be through Sod Hashem Liraiav.
**NO ACTUAL INSULT INTENDED TO POPA’S FATHER IN THIS POST**
PBA: That’s Kefirah in the absolute knowledge of the Rishonim. I can’t drink your wine (or hemlock) anymore.
PBA: So they’re asking why a genius wasn’t raised to believe? If the question is how did he not come to seeing God because he was so smart and the answer was that he did, someone should have said so.
That aside, the OP asked if there are any secular sources for him converting. I said there aren’t. (Are there secular sources of Onkelos even existing?)
To answer the original question, there is no hint in secular sources of Aristotle converting. In fact, it’s Mashma from the Rambam and other Rishonim (who try to deal with the question of how Aristotle could have been so close to the truth yet remained an Apikores) that they hold he didn’t either.
LF: So, were this year’s theatrics enough for you? 🙂
HaKatan: Oh good, you admit there’s a difference between a “real Zionist” and a person off the street. Now can you admit that “real secular Zionists” no longer exist?
PBA: Without commenting on the specifics here, something can be holy and completely true and relevant without being literal throughout (think Shir Hashirim).
Getzel: Let me try to explain the basic logic behind it. What do people do when they hear of tragedy. Imagine, Chas V’shalom, someone receiving a phone call that a loved one just tragically passed away in the prime of life in a crazy accident. Is that person’s response to immediately reach into a pocket to give Tzedaka? Do they immediately start learning Mishnayos? No. They are shocked, and silent, and immediately reflect on the person and what they just lost.
Whether it is a Jewish concept or not, that is what the silence is meant to recreate. We are all imagining ourselves in that immediate state of shock over all of the loved ones that Klal Yisrael has lost. It is a way of doing exactly that. Remembering. It may not be the best way to remember someone. Most Frum people will say that it probably isn’t. But it has a point and a meaning. And, once it was determined by the country that that is a way to do it, it is incredibly disrespectful to ignore it.
Israel creates a huge Kiddush Hashem every year when videos on the internet go up of major highways just stopping on Yom HaShoah and Yom Hazikaron. It’s the only place in the world to show such incredible respect to those we love. And while you think it might be silly, it absolutely is respectful. And intentionally ignoring that is both disrespectful and therefore a Chillul Hashem. It’s fine to debate whether or not this is the right way to show respect every other day of the year. But, L’ma’aseh, since this is the way that people attempt to show respect, ignoring it is a blatant disrespect that just isn’t worth it.
Getzel: The State of Israel is at war with Torah, which is why they pay every single Avreich in every single Kollel in the country (aside from those who refuse it). Gotcha.
You just can’t make quotes like this up. “No one used an offensive slur against you. They just currently pointed out that you support mass murder.” Nope, moving along. Nothing offensive here…
LF: You called it Yom Ha’atzamos. I don’t think you realize how offensive it is. The analogy to calling an African American the n-word is quite apt.
If you’re interested (I think it’s on Youtube or YUTorah), R’ Willig at YU’s Yom Ha’atzma’ut Seudas Hoda’ah last year spoke about how it’s a Yom of Achdus and even people who are pro-Medinah need to respect the opinions of those who are anti because they are opinions endorsed by legitimate Torah giants.
Golfer: The phrase is in Aramaic so the grammar wasn’t wrong, but he should have said Ara D’yisrael.
Also, there is a rejected opinion in the Gemara that it’s Assur to go to Israel nowadays. Other than that, I am not aware of any actual Shittah that says that the Mitzvah of Yishuv Eretz Yisrael is only applicable when there is a Bayis.
gr8: I don’t know about NK, but Satmar in Eretz Yisrael says their Kinnos on Tuesday, not Monday. It’s the one thing they hold of the Israeli government for (sarcasm, sort of).
DaMoshe: You are quite correct about that. Thank you.
LF: Maybe you can call it whatever you want and maybe you thought it up yourself, but that doesn’t remove the offense at all. A very comparable case would be going up to an African-American, calling him the n-word, and then excusing it by saying that you didn’t mean any offense and you were just using a variation of the Latin word for “black”. See how well that goes for you.
To respond to the actual discussion of whether the day is one worthy of celebration, everyone agrees that many of the “founding fathers” of the State had Yiddishkeit nowhere near their minds. In fact, many wanted to be rid of traditional Yiddishkeit. No one disputes that. There were also those involved who did it because they wanted to be able to fulfill all of the Mitzvos as HKBH commanded us and to bring all Jews back to Eretz Yisrael.
All that aside, though, nothing comes from man. Dati Leumi and other Frum people don’t celebrate Yom Ha’atzma’ut because some people (Frum and not) signed a document in 1948. It is celebrated because, in 1949, almost the entire Jewish world because commemorating that day as a day of tremendous Chasdei Hashem where, not only did He give us a safe place where we can practice Yiddishkeit as we were meant to, but He also clearly showed us an absolute early sign of the coming Geulah BB”A.
You are attacking a straw man. You have decided that Yom Ha’atzma’ut is a man-made holiday and therefore should not be compared to holy days. But it is not a man-made holiday. At least, not for the Frum. For the Frum who celebrate it is an acknowledgement that Chazal said there is a Chiyuv Min HaTorah to make a Yom Tov (not Yontif as in Asiyas Melacha, but a Yom Tov as in a good day), replete with the saying of Hallel, whenever HKBH does a Nes for all of Klal Yisrael that serves as a function of heralding a Geulah and Binyan Beis Hamikdash.
Now, I am not saying it’s Muskam that all of the assumptions required to get to the logic in the last paragraph are Muchrach. I would be willing to admit that Ruba D’ruba of the Olam does not hold of all of that, and a large Rov doesn’t even hold of most of it. But don’t come tell me that there is nothing at all Jewish about it. There are many who have a Mesorah, from Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai, that includes it, in the exact same manner that it includes Channukah and Purim. (Well, almost the exact. Chazal had the Koach to mandate with absolute terms that those days were an Aschalta D’Geulah and therefore Leis Man D’palig that they should be celebrated. We nowadays have to work with assumptions and we admit that, therefore, we could be wrong. Butt we’re not making it up on our own. We firmly believe that this falls into the parameters of making a Yom Tov.)
Oh, and a certain R’ Ovadia Yosef, among many others, would disagree with your contention that there is nothing Jewish at all about the day (though he is certainly not happy about those who say Hallel). See Yabiya Omer OC 5:35 and 6:41, if I recall correctly.
DY: I agree, Yom Ha’atzamos is not an inherently offensive term. Context is everything. Those who use the term use it incredibly disparagingly, often to indicate that the founding of the State and the Zionist movement were the cause of the Holocaust. It’s not a nice term, trust me. It’s one that even many Chareidim in Eretz Yisrael get offended when it’s used. If you ask people in Israel (certainly Dati Leumi, but also Chareidim) they will tell you that the phrase means that because they are happy that the State exists, the blood of every Jew who has died since 1890 or so is on their hands. It’s not something you say in polite company. Ever.
LF: So you’re protesting the fact that someone used the word “nidche” or “Mukdam”? That’s still silly, no? They’re words. They’re not even Halachic terms. They are words which describe a state of something. The same state of which applies to Yom Ha’atzma’ut. There are plenty of reasons to not like the day. This is a silly one.
That aside, being unhappy about the day or the way people are talking about it does not excuse the incredibly inappropriate attack. Let’s not get bogged down in a separate point before this one is resolved.
And you do realize, of course, that just because there happens to be partying by non-Frum people on the same day for the same reason doesn’t make us wrong and celebrating it as well. Or will you stop having a Seder now too?
LF: You’re right. We shouldn’t use words that have meaning when discussing an issue. After all, the word “Nidche” appears in the Torah to refer to a day that falls out… Oh wait. It’s a word that means something. Are we not allowed to use words anymore that appear in Torah sources for non-Torah purposes? You’re being silly and offensive.
Oh, and for your information, the words “Nidche” and “Mukdam” referring to days in Halachic literature never refer to Yomim Tovim. They refer to days instituted by Chazal for (mostly) fasting. Some people do hold they are following Chazal’s same guidelines in giving Shevach V’hoda’ah to HKBH on Yom Ha’atzma’ut.
Even the vast majority of ardent Chareidim in Eretz Yisrael have enough sensitivity to not call it Yom Ha’atzamos. It is a gross insult to the Kedoshim who died Al Kiddush Hashem giving their lives so that we could all have somewhere safe to be free as Jews. I’m quite disappointed that the mods let that through. If you don’t want to call is Yom Ha’atzma’ut, that’s fine. I have heard some anti-Zionists in America who just call it Israeli Independence Day because they refuse to make it sound like a Jewish holiday. That’s fine (even if I disagree with that opinion). What you said was well out of line.
That was grossly inappropriate by LF.
Amazon and ebay sell milk frothers. You can make your own.
YU has R’ Schachter, R’ Willig, R’ Mayer Twersky, and more and they put it all online on YUtorah.
Bookworm: You find mine? It flew off a mountain and I haven’t seen it since.
HaLeiVi: Nowadays it is almost always pushed off. It has nothing to do with Bahab. The reason is that the government is concerned about the fact that since Yom HaZikaron and Yom Haatzmaut are consecutive days, with the former having many Tekesim and speeches and such and the latter having celebrations, that having either day next to Shabbos could lead to tremendous Chillul Shabbos (either with setting up the night before or with partying into the following night). Therefore, they are always Doche Yom HaAtzmaut to a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. With the way the calendar is set up, 5 Iyar cannot be a Tuesday or Thursday anyway, so it is Nidche more often than not.
HaLeiVi: Those rules don’t apply to Moshe Rabbeinu anyway, as the reason for them is they are a Hach’chasha of Moshe’s Nevua.
Someone once told me that the Rambam holds that talking to an inanimate object is Apikorsus. I’m not sure if he’s right or why that would be though.
Many people could. However, the standard assumption is that they were so interspersed in other nations and cultures that any remnant of what they once were was quickly eradicated.
With the exception of one T’shuvah in the Rishonim claiming the Ethiopians are from Shevet Dan, for the most part we assume any “lost tribes” were groups that were disconnected from the Jewish community at some point in Bayis Sheni or later.