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Dooms
“Testing 69 pills vs 70 pills is NOT scientific – even if the 70th pill is different.”Do you think when a study is done on a new pill the subjects cant be taking any other pills?
Joseph
I’m familiar with Jewish Law, and am more than happy to answer any and all questions that you may have .(regardless of how little sense they make) . but we do have to go in order, and if we do most of your questions will fall awayI asked you “How many people do you know who have asked “I have a self defense sheila, may I kill an adult”
I also asked “Do you think the following statement is correct: “the Torah opposes DNRs”?”
joseph
“You missed my point.”I didint, but you ignored mine.
One step at a timeI asked you “How many people do you know who have asked “I have a self defense sheila, may I kill an adult”
I also asked “Do you think the following statement is correct: “the Torah opposes DNRs”?”
I didint really mean for this to turn into a whole discussion (not that I mind, and It was predictable)
My real question though was
““For the AI to come out publicly and anounce”Who are AI? Agudah? did they make an announcement?
Takes2, what are you referring to ?
Jospeh
Asked and answered
“How many people do you know who have asked “I have a self defense sheila, may I kill an adult””Uncle BEN
“Do you think the following statement is correct: “the Torah opposes eating non-kosher food and/or being mechalel Shabbos?”
Yes correct.
Seriously why is everyone asking the same question?
There are 365 Lavin in the Torah do we really have to go through all of them?On the other hand, can you answer my question:
Do you think the following statement is correct: “the Torah opposes DNRs”?For the record “What would happen if someone got a heter to have a 9th month abortion, before and after this law was passed?” I don’t know of anyone who got such a heter, and its hard for me to imagine such a situation. They are very very rare, and the whole thing is really political. Frankly if it where up to me I would not allow such late abortions. however I am mevatel my daas to the Torah though, and if a woman were to get such a heter thats between her and her Rav not the State. One of the hardest halachos for me to wrap my head around is the halacha that we do not wait for a pregnant woman to give birth if she is chayiv misah. ?I just cant understand it
1
“The law always protected a mother’s life who was endangered”who do you want to be the one to decide what is considered “endangered” ?
I’m not sure how “inches” got in there (autofill I guess)
Slight edit
Joseph
Asked and answered
How many people do you know who have asked “I have a self defense sheila, may I kill an adult”The DNR comparison works well.
Do you think the following statement is correct: “the Torah opposed DNRs”?
“And the harm caused by taking 69 vaccines (or pills) and 70 Vaccines (or pills)
may not be different – but that doesn’t mean the 70th vaccine is safe.”It absolutly would
Especially if that 70th pill was different than the previous 69, say for example it was MMR pillRebyid
Except that it isnt, although many do make that mistake.
People do not wake up and ask themselves what should I do after my latte before work? Oh I know get an abortion.
The comparison to eating treif, or most other aveiros just doesnt work.
It is more comparable to signing a DNR. I think it would be wrong to say “the Torah opposes signing a DNR” although it does in the overwhelming majority of cases. However, healthy people, who the Torah would oppose signing a DNR generally dont ask whether they should sign one. so although if all Jews were to ask “may I sign a DNR” probably less than 1% would be told yes. Nonetheless among those who DO ask, namely those approaching the end of ife, it is more nuanced, and while not always allowed by any means , it is allowed often enough that saying “The Torah doesnt allow DNRs” is wrong and overly simplistic, although for most people (by far) the Torah would oppose them.Abortion is more comparable to DNR than to “killing an adult” (in this sense).
how many people do you know who asked their Rav for a heter to an abortion? How many of those were granted?Devarim 18:13 inches
“It is basic halacha mentioned repeatedly from Chazal through Shulchan Aruch and beyond.”
I did not dispute that point.
In shmuzin youve heard (earlier you said you heard from the yeshivish side) is that stressed a lot, a little or not at all?
And again this is but one facet. your description of Bucharian relationships can aptly be used to describe chasidish ones (generally speaking) would you not agree?
Less so yeshivish ones were they are more equal (though not complelty equal)“that abortion is ok ,even through the ninth month ”
It does make me sqemish too, but what can we do we are mevatel ourselves to the Torah and the Torah allows it (in certain cases) even in the 9th month see Ohelos 7:6
“For the AI to come out publicly and anounce”
How are AI? Agudah? did they make an announcement?
“But nobody ever did a 4 pill vs ZERO pill test so we don’t really know if 4 pills are
as safe as ZERO pills.”wha tchanged your mind
earlier you said
“In the 1960s and 1970s when there were only 4 vaccines usually given at age 5 when starting school,
American Children were MUCH, MUCH, MUCH HEALTHIER then today’s children.
And nobody was dying from measles, polio, diphtheria, chicken pox, mumps etc.”So why cant we compare 5 vaccines to those 4 that you accept (or accepted as it seems like you are about tto change your mind) are safe
Dooms
take a deep breath yo uare getting unhinged I didint omit anything .
you said that vaccine use has declined
I asked if the rate of autism has declined
yo usaid no and gave an answer
I asked if there was another possibilityI quoted your reply “No. because…””
I put ellipsis (look it up when you look up usually and probably) to indicate that there were words there that were cut off.
I’m asking if there is “Can you think of another possibility?” ” another” means you gave one, and Iwas wondering if it was possible for there to be another. ie not the one you gave.If there isnt say so, no need to throw a hissy fit and write LIAR over and over in caps, writing that just makes it seem like yo uthink, there is another possibility and that vaccines do not cause autism, but you are so invested that you have trouble acknowledging that
“Hey Ubiquitin – can you give an example where LARGE GROUPS of people accused a product of causing harm, the manufacturers deny where the manufacturers were right.”
sure can ! Lots of people believe microwaves read thoughts . I dont really understand this argument Just because “lots of people” believe something makes it true? How many people are “lots” because “lots believe the world is flat. “Lots believe in Christianity”
On another thread Joseph wrote
“Shuls should refuse entry to women and their husband/father who goes in public pritzusdik. They should be shunned by the entire community.”
I replied
” your idea would 100% fly in chasiddish shuls’ Less so in yeshivish ones (I’m not saying it wouldnt, but less so) . This is part of the difference I mentioned in the other thread”
what Imeant was, that viewing the husband as being “in charge” of his wife is a more common view in chassidish Circles. Litvish circles are less likely to view her tznius as his responsibility .
Again, this is not absolute, it is just a generalization .
Also,
You said “Do you think Bucharian Jews conduct martial life the same way Modern Orthodox Jews do? Of course there are differences.”what differences did you mean?
dooms
“you would not test the safety of 5 pills by comparing 4 pills to 5 pills.”
why not?
One of those pills is critical to my patients health, it has already been proven to be safe.
why would I stop it thus putting him at risk?If 4 pills are safe, and adding a 5th pill has the same safety profile, why wouldnt that show that 5 pills are just as safe as 4
I’ll expand there I don’t want to hijack this thread
Joseph
“Shuls should refuse entry to women and their husband/father who goes in public pritzusdik. They should be shunned by the entire community.”
Not to get distracted from this important thread, but your idea would 100% fly in chasiddish shuls
Less so in yeshivish ones (I’m not saying it wouldnt, but less so) . This is part of the difference I mentioned in the other thread“Klinefers is not retardation ”
and neither is autism“Ubiquitin, I DARE you to answer this:”
sure!“Why was the study that PROVED that smoking caused cancer Smoker vs Non Smoker????”
Because they were trying to prove smoking causes cancer, if they wanted to prove a 4th pack causes cancer they would study 3 pack vs 4 pack
youre turn:
Suppose 4 pills were safe. (As you agree) Is there any way I could prove that 5 pills is also safe? How would I go about proving that 5 pills was no more dangerous than 4 pills ?Dooms
I didn’t omit anything
I am asking you if there is another possibility to answer the question : “and has the autism rate changed?”
You agree that it hasnt “No” and provided a silly answer
My question is “iCan you think of another possibility?”
I cant help but notice, you havent answered my question.
Speaking of dishonest ommiting,
here are more recnt questions you omitted answers to :1) “Therefore Klinefers is NOT Genetic Retardation”
Wait, what? so those with Klienfelters that do have a developmental delay, are yo u saying it has nothing to do with their genetic condition?
2) And you are aware tha t not all those with trisomy 21 have the same intellectual ability either. right?
3-4) didint you claim to be in special ed? Are you telling me every child you have encountered had a specific identifiable cause of their disability?
5-6) Suppose 4 pills were safe. (As you agree) Is there any way I could prove that 5 pills is also safe? How would I go about proving that 5 pills was no more dangerous than 4 pills ?Dont omit anything, just answer the questions (especially the last one please)
looking forwarddoomsday
“Regarding testing it is SCIENTIFIC to test vaxxed vs unvaxxed.”
congrats you have repeated it for the 100th time
While it was made up the first 99 times, as has been explained to you over and over and over
Now that you said it 100 times it has become true“Just because taking 4 pills is safe, does not mean taking 70+ pills is safe.”
True, but that does not mean that taking 70+ pills is dangerous either.Suppose 4 pills were safe. (As you agree) Is there any way I could prove that 5 pills is also safe? How would I go about proving that 5 pills was no more dangerous than 4 pills ?
“So ALL PROVEN GENETIC RETARDATION has ABNORMAL FACIAL Features.”
Still not true. I provided Klienfelters as the first example. Tay sachs is another
You onl;y need to repeat it 97 more times for your lie to become true though.And again I”m not sure what you mean by “proven genetic retardation” (you are really just making terms up, I googling that term turns up nothing. I think I preffered it when yo uparroted anti-vax/pro-disease websites at least you made more sense then when yo u try to come up with your own ideas .
We Don’t know what genetic defect causes EVERY case of intellectual disability. Some we do know and these fall into “neat” cases of deletion/substitution etc of specific genetic material. Other cases were exposed to some insult like FAS or hypothyroidism . Still others we just don’t knowdidint yo claim to be in special ed? Are you telling me every child you have encountered had a specific identifiable cause of their disability?
There are many cases where we just haven’t identified the cause yet. That doesnt mean it isnt there“Therefore Klinefers is NOT Genetic Retardation”
Wait, what? so those with Klienfelters that do have a developmental delay, are yo u saying it has nothing to do with their genetic condition?
And you are aware tha t not all those with trisomy 21 have the same intellectual ability either. right?
So CTL is Zeidy!
dooms
Regarding klienfetlters
“Intelligence is usually normal; however, reading difficulties and problems with speech are more common.”When you have some time look up “usually”
Then take a second and think hard regarding “reading difficulties and problems with speech ”“If there are normal facial features, it is probably NOT genetic retardation. ”
when you are done looking up the word usually., look up “probably”
“Lets return back to the SAFE Vaccine Schedule of FOUR Vaccines instead of 70+”
So you accept that 4 vaccines are safe, but adding a 5th is dangerous.
Yet you maintain that this assertion of yours is impossible to disprove since a study that would show no difference between 4 vs 5 vaccines is not relaible becasue it is not “vaxx vx non-vaxx”
So you have an assertion that you got from your neighbor/friend that you agree is absolutely impossible to disprove . forcing you to make increasingly bizzare arguments (your assertion regarding “Genetic Retardation and Manufacturers denying their products cause harm are particularly bizarre)
do I have this right?I love you too Tatty
“Got any data to back that up?”
Lets say I don’t
“Trying to generalize about whether chassidishe or Litvishe marriages are more or less “successful”l, “happier”, ”
I’m not sure if that was directed at me, but in no way did I suggest that. They are “different”
joseph
“My definition of their expectations is to build a bayis ne’emen b’yisroel, with all that details. A bit vague, no doubt”
A bit vague, certainly. The question is also how that bayis ne’eman looks. You say ou are familiar with “2. From the Yeshivish side.” I’m familiar with both. There are many pesukimmamarei chazal that describe the husband-wife relationship. Yeshivish shmuzin put more of an emphasis on “building a home together” looking for an “ezer kenegdo” describing the couple in terms of “rayim huahuvim” To a certain extent the Yeshivish world is looking for a partner, a friend even. To become friends you need to spend more time together, you need to have somewhat similar interests. I wouldnt quite say s NC put it that “have an actual romantic component.” since that tends to develop later among both. Chasdish shmuzin (and there are a looooot less of these, which is part of the distinction) focus more on “Vehu yimshol bach” (I dont mean this in a negative way, it is a pasuk in the torah after all) that the husband is the leader of the household A popular chazal used to describe the husband’s role is “שְׁלשָׁה דְבָרִים צָרִיךְ אָדָם לוֹמַר בְּתוֹךְ בֵּיתוֹ עֶרֶב שַׁבָּת עִם חֲשֵׁכָה. עִשַּׂרְתֶּם. עֵרַבְתֶּם. הַדְלִיקוּ אֶת הַנֵּר.” his role is to supervise the rest of his family’s yidishkeit. His wife cleans the home, prepeares the meals and his job is to come home and ask “עִשַּׂרְתֶּם. עֵרַבְתֶּם. הַדְלִיקוּ אֶת הַנֵּר” Of course hsi job is also to provide for her leaving her free to raise the children. They aren’t equals .
Again this isn’t better or worse per se. the nature of the relationships and thus their courtship is different.
Of course it isn’t all black and white, and of course in Yeshivish homes the husband is “head of the household” and In chasidish homes the wife isn’t just another kid .
And of course this is a generalization and their is a wide spectrum between them. Those hwo are more yeshivish have relationships more similar to those of chasidim, and their dating reflects that.You said “Do you think Bucharian Jews conduct martial life the same way Modern Orthodox Jews do? Of course there are differences.”
what differences did you mean?
“You cannot provide ONE example of people accusing a product of harm & manufacturers deny where the manufacturers were right. NOT ONCE IN HISTORY!”
What?
My neighbor accuses his microwave of reading his thoughts and causing him to lose his job. GE disagrees. That makes him right becasue he is accusing a product of harm and the manufacturer denies it“Ubiquitin, name me one GENETIC RETARDATION with normal facial features.”
1) Easy, off the top of my head Klienfelter’s (they tend to be taller, but they do have typical facial features. they do also have lower IQ’s)
2) named genetic syndromes typically have multiple features that are linked, not every person with “GENETIC RETARDATION ” has a named syndrome. do y u think EVERY intellectually disabled person fits neatly into Trisomy 21, Fragile X, Prader willi etc?“Also, what is the Autism Rate of children who are 100% Unvaccinated?”
More than likely equal to the general populationDooms
“and has the autism rate changed?No. becasue…”
Can you think of another possibility?
“What a TRAGIC Time to live in – SICKEST CHILDREN IN HISTORY – ”
Um yes There are sicker children because there are more children. Infant mortality went down. Life expectancy went up.
“sickest children” is a cute buzzword by pro-diseaseers such as yourself, that just isnt grounded in reality“THANK YOU, VACCINES! Such a “brochah” NOT!!!”
Agreed! You should right thank you Hashem, not to the vaccines.
You should also thank the inventors and developers of vaccines Like The Tiferes Yisroel did see 2 lines from the bottom of Boaz http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37946&st=&pgnum=347
where he refers to Jenner as a “chasid” who saved thousands of lives and will certainly be repaid in Olam Habbah .
You should thank the doctors who administer the vaccines often at their own expense (For example you cant bill for the flu administration, you get reimbursed for the cost of the vaccine only)
and you should thank the people spending time trying to fight off your corrupt ideas and to prevent others from following your foolish waysThanking the vaccines is just more silliness
Dooms
“Percentage of young U.S. children who don’t receive any vaccines has quadrupled since 2001.”and has the autism rate changed?
“Why are so many vaccines 70+ necessary?”
Because there are so many diseases. Beezras Hashem in the coming year there will be dozens and dozens more. what an amazing time to live in that we appreciate a part of Hashem’s prmise of “Kol Hamachla Asher samti Bimitzraim Lo Asim Alecha” With the eradication of some diseases like smallpox ( maybe shchin?) and the near eradication of othersI’m hesitant since DY’s response to your question might be right.
but here goes…first a few questions if you don’t mind
1) Which (of the two) are you familiar with and how do you define their expectations of marriage?
2) Have you heard sholam bayis vaadim/shmuzin/misser shmisen from either group?
3) Are you familiar with the song “do you love me” from fiddler on the roof? (the lyrics are available on line) which (if any) of the 2 groups does that description of love/marriage describe?Dooms
As I was scrolling thtroug hthe thread I was wondering if soemhow half the posts got removed since yo uare repeatign the same gibberish over and over (sometimes verbatim) in spite of my having responded numerous times
(for example teh absurd vaxxed vs unvaxxed distinction)Now though I see some new gibberish
“ALL Genetic Retardation the children have ABNORMAL FACIAL FEATURES”This is the strangest claim youve made. Many syndromic intellectual disabilities, present with physical differences. In no way is this true of “ALL Genetic Retardation”
Of course without a “syndrome” many of these may not have a named diagnosis” we just call them “Intellectually disabled”“I think both sides are writing to convince “people on the fence” who might be following the debate.”
True , though both sides seem to be trying to convince people to vaccinate which makes this “argument” strange.
“It should be pointed out that the Litvish/Yeshivish velt in Eretz Yisroel has a system closer to the American Chasidim than to the American Litvish/Yeshivish world. And it works for them.”
Maybe their expectations of marriage are more similar to Chasidim than to the American Litvish/Yeshivish world
“Why/how is that bad?”
Becasue it is a waste of time/effort and has lead to the shidduch crises.
Many girls are turned down for absurd reasons. Once people go out, I doubt that the fact that her father wears a blue shirt ain mul ah yoivel would shter the shiduch. It puts up artificial barriers that prevents people from ever meetingHow’s “different expectations” explain why the Litvish should partially switch to the MO model?
Ayin DY’s comment .I’ll elaborate just a bit: The point of dating should be for marriage not just for the sake of dating
Joseph
“What is “the bad part of chasidish dating” that you refer to? If it is that they research so much (far more than the Litvish) before seeing each other, how can you say it is bad if the system works well for them?”“Bad” wasnt the best choice of words. Its bad when all the research is separated from actually getting married
“What leads you to believe such changes would be beneficial to the Litvish?
To paraphrase, Differetn expectations for where dating is supposed to lead . V’ein kan makom l’ha’arich.
syag
thank you for the kind wordsI think we need to get people to meet more
At meals by mutual friends
at weddings
speed dating
singles eventsThe amount of effort, begging research etc just for a couple to go out is absurd.
At least by chasidim once they “go out” odds are almost certain that they’ll get married
Weve managed to combine the bad part of chasidish dating with the bad part of modern dating and we have this crazy system where there is so much effort just to get a couple to go out. and even once they do go out it is more likely than not that the shiduch wont progress.
We need to either get people to relax their criteria before going out, or the opposite enhance the criteria so once it is agreed to go out they will most likely marry .I think the first is more realistic though I’m fine with either.
“You are mischaracterizing my position. I think it would solve a great deal of the “real problem”.”
Sorry, I didint mean to mischaracterize your opinion. by “real problem” in that sentence I meant what I think the real problem is, namely the high expectations. Or as takes2 said “Their are way too many time consuming and decision making obstacles to overcome to even get to a first date.”
“Real solutions have been and are being attempted.”
I meant not age gap related.
After how long of trying that can we try something else?“You haven’t done a very good job of explaining …”
That may be true, I’m not a very good writer (no need to agree) and I often feel that I’m not explaining myself (my many typos don’t help).
Of course it is also possible, I’m not doing a good job explaining myself because I’m wrong. It seems so obvious to me that the Age gap makes zero sense, that I do sometimes wonder if maybe I’m missing something , how can people buy into this?
I certainly at the very least am not explaiing myself well.At any rate, I am not a big asken and am not able to get Rabbonimm to sign a kol koreh. so for now we are stuck grinding our wheels trying to close the “age gap” as the absurd dating system continues
In how long would you be willing to advocate trying something else (if either the age gap cant be closed, or if closing doesnt help)
We last discussed this about 5 years ago, If ch”v this is still nogeyah in 5 years would you entertain another possibility? 10? 20? 50?“we would very possibly cause the boys to have lower expectations,”
“I think cutting down the gap is a very difficult thing to do.”Thats a tough sell, you are advocating for a change that you admit is “very difficult” that would only “very possibly” actually help what the real problem is.
But ok, Lets try it I’m all for trying anything,
Though long can I expect to wait unti l real solutions are attempted? Ie either, that until you realize that either the gap wasn’t the problem or that it is impossible to correct.
10 years? 20? 50?As to some other points youve raised:
“Do you think the age gap theory math is wrong,”I think it is simplistic and while it would explain shidduch island or musical chairs with a fixed number of chairs and players it doesn’t explain the real world
Dooms
“2cents, MORE children die from MMR Vaccine per year then die from Measles per year.”Lol
even if that where true It would be like saying more skydivers wearing a parachute die each year than skydivers who dont wear a parachute. Therfore skydivers should stop wearing parachutes“If we cut dating out of the process, but kept the typical ages intact, would there be a disparity?”
no .
Which brings me to my question to you
If we cut out the disparity, but kept our current dating prices would there still be a crises
(Again as defined by Wikipedia, though for this question leave out the “especially women” part .while you are thinking about that, consider this how easy do you think it will be to cut out the disparity?
“Wouldn’t you agree that there are fewer girls around as well? By the same number? ”
No because for boys age is less of an issue. It is not unheard of for a boy of 40 to marry a girl of 30. It is (almost?) unheard of for a girl of 40 to marry a boy of 30.
I don’t have actual numbers SO I don’t know, as I said I’m skeptical that there are much more older girls than guys.
Plus its easier for guys to get married again, and more guys leave the fold than girls (again no data pure boich sensation. So there are a lot of complicated pieces at play that make it hard to actually predict how many of each would be left.
nonetheless, if you insist that there are an equal number of girls and guys around, I can accept thatDY
“I disagree that that’s what most people mean.”I don’t have data, but (almost?) every article IVe read on the subject defines it that way eg see wikipedia
“The Shidduch crisis is a commonly observed and discussed phenomenon in the Orthodox Jewish community whereby eligible single persons, especially women, have difficulty finding a suitable spouse.”“Do you deny that there are a lot more older single girls than boys?”
i’m skeptical, those I’Ve spoken to all know more boys but admittedly I havent spoken to many shadchanim, “everybody” says there are more girsl, SO i concede that it ver ywell may be true and that although I and those around me do not see that, I must have a biased sample . (especially considering that logically more girls makes sense, see below)
“Do you deny that based on how our current shidduch system works (now how it theoretically could work, but how it does actually play out) there aren’t enough boys for the girls?”
I dont fully understand the question. There are “enough” but the way our system works puts a long delay on each individual girl getting a date, then the dating period lasts a long time. A Girl can go over the course of a year having dated 3-4 guys (and thats the lucky ones) As time moves on their do become less guys available but this is BECAUSE of our system.
So to directly answer your question, based on how our current shidduch system works No there arent enough boys for the girls nor are can there ever be. This is a falw in the system not the number“What do you mean by the shidduch crisis?”
I mean what most people mean. The fact that there are many older singles struggling to find a shiduch
“If the numbers don’t match up, you can’t just pretend they do.”
Of course not.
But when the numbers do match up or at least can. You can’t just pretend that in reality all 23 year olds only marry 19 year olds and that once all 23 year olds are taken any extra 19 year olds can’t go out with anyone 16 -22 (obviosuly I mean once the 16 year olds are older ) .This fixed system, while it is some cute math and I get its attraction, it just doesn’t describe reality
you want the problem to have a simple solution, so you just put up bilndfolds and imagine a simplistic problem. the fact that it doesnt describe reality is not a deterrent, because yo u went it to be true .
Theres an older name for this belief its called “alternative facts”(BTW I dont deny the Shidduch crises I deny the Age Gap™ as being a main cause .
“They’re married.”
Exactly, why did they all manage when this poor 34 year old is left behind round after round after round.
while there may not be enough 38 year olds to marry all 34 year olds. There are (that is there were ) more than enough 40 year olds + 39 + 38+ 37 + 36 + 35 + 34 +33 + 32 + 32 year oldsUnless you mean that NOW there arent enough left., and I concede that that may be true. But even closing the “age gap” wont help the current “older” singles (as I believe you said) it is about trying to prevent future 34 year olds from being left behind
dooms
“There is a free e-book listing 1,200 studies that vaccines are harmful.
STOP lying that there are no studies that vaccines are dangerous.”First of all, Ive been limiting my comments to Vaccines adn autism (the reason for that is such research is easy you just compare 2 groups looking at 2 outcomes, looking for “danger” is somewhat nebulous how do you define danger, when yo uget desperate you will say that any time the skin is pierced it is theoretically dangerous as pathogens can be introduced.)
Secondly, while I’ll grant that I havent gone through all 1,200.
We started with 10 that you provided. 0% of them showed a link between vaccine and autism. you then provided an 11th, which wasnt really a study (asking parent s if they vaccinated and if their kids are autistic is about as meaningful as my coin flip study that proved if everyone vaccinates all disease and suffering would end)
Thus assumign the sample I looked at is representative of the entre body of literature. IT is safe to conclude that there are zero studies showing such a link.
Nonethless, as before, if there ias any particular study that you like, I’d love to have a look and either stand corrected or point out the flaw in the study or your understanding of it.Please lets limit to one study at a time,
“The younger siblings who got autism were vaccinated.
The younger siblings who got autism were vaccinated.
The younger siblings who got autism were vaccinated.
The younger siblings who got autism were vaccinated.”I see your repeated gibberish x 4. and I’ll raise you with the answer you were given to that nonsense x 5
The study was looking at MMR
The study was looking at MMR
The study was looking at MMR
The study was looking at MMR
The study was looking at MMRDy
1) “is only possible if the old timers marry the newcomers.”
Agreed. And some do. True if ALL 23 year olds only married 19 year olds there would be a problem.2) ‘someone will get to the chairs before others.”
Yes some will be left standing after the first round, but if those “losers” are still standing after the second, third , fourth , fifth etc rounds. Although SOMEONE would have to be standing. It is unlikely that the same person is standing round after round after round due to just the lack of chairs“the 23 year old boys, are unlikely to marry, say, a 34 year old girl”
True but what happened with the 40 year old boys (when they were 26 and she was 20), the 39 year olds? The 38 year olds? 37? 36? What about the 35 year olds? 34?
Are ALL her classmates married to 38 year olds leaving her no one? That just doesnt describe realityJoseph
“Your math is bad.”
I said dont get caught up on the math. I’m just illustrating a point.“I would otherwise explain it to you if not for the fact that it’s been explained extensively here for years, ”
That’s ok. I understand it, there is no reason to revisit this again.
I’m explaining it to newer posters (like the op).“There is an end game. People don’t stay in shidduch age forever.”
Excellent,
But there is no reason why that person should wait “forever”
Back to the chairs
While when there are 100 players and 90 chairs , 10 will be left without chairs. A year later we have ,there are 110.25 players for 99.225 chairs. etc…Now imagine this game after several rounds the disparity has grown there are 115.7625 players for 104.18625.
When the round is done there are 11.57625 (more than the original disparity!)
This leads to one of two possibilities (of course a combination is possible)either
1) the original 10 have all found shiduchim,, and the extra 11.6 are all relative new comers, so ok hopefully they will find their chairs in the next few rounds. No problem, thye arent waiting “forever” some wait longer than others.or
2) Those 10 extra are STILL left without a chair, at this point we would have t conclude that it cant just be the age gap keeping them without seats, they must not hear as well, or run as fast or something Just the disparity cannot explain how these 10 are still let standing round after round““Very well said.” I second that”
Yep agreed
“Well, I answered.”
” I don’t think you’ve responded to my point that the disparity would exist’
1) first of all, IT may exist as IVe said , in an imaginary world (shidduch island) it is possible that it would exist. Nonetheless even in this imaginary world the Age Gap isn’t enough to explain the shiduch crises. Thus creating it all about the age gap is a waste of time.
2) In reality it doesn’t really exist. Because there are always more boys and more girls. We are not matching fixed system. Musical chairs is often used as an analogy. In a game of musical chairs with 100 players and 90 chairs, leaving behind 10 players.
The reality though is every year 5 % more players and chairs are added. (Don’t get bogged down with the numbers I’m illustrating a point ) so after a year there are 105 players and 94.5 chairs. A year later there are 110.25 players for 99.225 chairs. etc…
As long as the Ribono shel olom keep creating more players and chairs even if they are different numbers. The game will never end .Thus what we are left with is the Age Gap only makes sense in a simplistic closed system, and EVEN in that system it is only part of the problem.
Thus focusing on the Age Gap is a waste of effort and time