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Joseph
it certainly isn’t the be-all-end-all however if you rely on the CRC or OUI for that matter then you are relying on any hashgacha they deem reliable (including the BVK) since the CRC (or OU) accept ingredients with those hashgachas in a final product that they may supervise.
OF course if you do not rely on the CRC (and by extention other members of AKO) then the fact that the CRC says it is reliable doesn’t matter to you
Yes, I know the Rav Hamachshir
But dont take my word for it, they are part of AKO and are listed on the CRC’s reccomendned hashgachas
CA
cucumbers are indeed fruit as well.
Lettuce however, are leaves
“I don’t see how the ingredients in all of these devices can be effectively banned.”
They cant, but I assume you agree that bombs should not be readily available at bomb shows and certainly not without a background check and doubly certainly not to those on a terror watch list.
(BTW consider the 2nd amendment doesnt mention “guns” it refers to arms So im not sure why I dont have the same right to nuclear arms, and fighter jets as to guns)
Yes we cant stop EVERY shooting, much like we cant stop every bombing (though your statistics arent impressive while obviously a tragedy for those 699 people out of over 300,000,000 that is not a big number) but that is an absurd reason not to stop some. These mass shootings are not as common in other countries. We have to be allowed to at least research as to why that is. Beleive it or not since the Dickey amendment in 96′ the CDC is effectively banned from even researching gun violence out of concern of where it might lead (namely gun control). And then gun nuts say we cant be strict about gun control because no research shows it will help!
Avi
“Ubiquitin, one can kill even more with explosives”
Lol, are you suggesting explosives should be readily available and “explosive shows” often with minimal to no background checks?
How many people in the US are killed with these legally purchased (or illegally for that matter) explosives?
I don’t meet your criteria for someone who started learing later. Howqever if you have a passing familiarity with Yiddish I have friends who have furthered their comfort by both listening to shiurim and reading childrens books.
stay away from guides to teach Yiddish, because today (at least among chasidim) there is no formal Yiddish teaching with grammar and such. You pick up what people around you say. So for example wheras in “real” Yiddish as in Hebrew nouns are either feminine and masculine. In spoken Yiddish you say what “sounds right” so an emphasis on grammar is a bit misplaced
Good luck
“Moreover, various and sundry implements can be used as weapons for both murder and suicide.”
while what Avram pointed out is 100% true. Another thing to consider is that other implements are not as deadly, nor do they hurt as many people. A gun can take down a 50 people quite quickly a knife cant really and those that are stabbed are not usually as injured as with a gun. I have treated many many attempted suicides via overdose of every med you can think of. If those people had guns at home the outcomes could have been quite different
Avi K
“Ideally it should be Anarch-Capitalism”
Are the following anti-caplitalist ideas optional?
1) money cant be lent with interest
2) Those non-interest loans are automatically forgiven after a max of 7 years
3) Land cant be sold permamnetly
4) competition is assur (hasagas gevul)
5) there is a limit to how much profit a person can make on something – onaah’s maamon
I’m sure there are more but that is just a start
DY Of course that is true
The following are true as well:
Chareidim want to believe in daas Torah because they are afraid to make their own decisions (heard from R’ Aaron Feldman).
Chareidim want to believe in daas Torah because they want a go to argument that can end any discussion about what they already decided. (heard from R’ Michel Shurkin)
Obviously there are other reasons as well and different people have different reasons but those are the two most common ones I’ve come across.
And dont even think of arguing, after all it is Daas Torah! (see what I did)
Abba-s
“In England, which has very strict gun control … Would gun control have stopped that?”
Probably not, though it may have helped prevent the countless mass shootings that are commonplace in the US, and unheard of in England.
chaplain
“I am seriously thinking of arming myself because in the past 4 weeks or so i have had two murders at the end of my block. “
If you like stats so much consider a gun much more likely to be used in accident or suicide than against an intruder. Getting a gun to protect against murders doesnt make a lot of sense
Nope Joseph is wrong
“”what siddur/nusach does bobov use”
Nusach Sfard.
Incorrect. They have a tzans nusach the siddur used in shul is Tzilusa d’Shlomeh. While being quite similar to nusach sefard there are differences. For example they end Atah Chonen with “deah binah vehaskel” unlike nusach sefard.
“where are the biggest communities”
Boro Park, Brooklyn, NY.
Correct
“what differentiates it from other chassidish sects?”
Who said they’re different?
All Chasidish sects are different. See above regarding nusach. bobov wear tefilin on chol hamoed prior to wedding (granted this isn’t limited to bobov but most chasidim don’t wear tefilin on chol hamoed). There are of course differences in dress compared to say Satmar. (I don’t think they wear bow on hat on Left like viznitz does (also tsanz) but im not sure)
“If your goal is to reduce crime and protect citizens, gun control serves no purpose since the bad guys will ignore it.”
It depends on what you mean by “bad guys” Granted gang violence would probably not decrease. However making it harder for the lone killers, especially those with mental disorders and/or on terrorist watch lists is probably a good idea
A_y
“I hope people are not comparing themselves to Yisro…”
Why on Earth not? I’d venture to say that the difference between Yisro and Moshe is less than that between us and R” Chaim Kanievesky. Besides so who where these pesukim written for if not for us? Is it just an interesting historical lesson that Yisro once questioned Moshe but is not applicable in future generations ch”v?
“Would Yisro have given his blessings to the endeavor saying, …”
Probably not, but I don’t know.
Wrong in fact questions/doubts/suggestions Should be voiced. Eizehu Chacham Halomed mikal adom. Not Alomed mikal adam chutz mikindirgarteners
Entirely true, but irrelevant.
Yes but it is possible.
Sorry to let you down Golfer
I guess I’m not as learned as you thought. I have absolutely no idea what You are trying to say. Am I looking in the write place?
I looked here http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14261&st=&pgnum=89
passuk yud
Just to back up. I am saying only one thing: That laypeople can (and should) question opinions of Gedolim. Not that the opinions should be ignored, not that it should be done in a chutzpadik way etc.
For example in the id 80’s the UNSC declared the middle east a “nuclear free zone” Are you saying that would make it illegal for Israel to have nuclear weapons?
Joseph
do you guess your information?
from The UN library website:
“The nature of the resolution determines if it is considered binding on States…
In general, resolutions adopted by the Security Council acting under Chapter VII of the Charter, are considered binding… Legal scholars have various opinions on this question… “
So while “in general” security council resolutions are legally binding, clearly not all are.
“OK. You were still way off on the other thread”
That depends what he was looking for. He was looking for an open and shut pesak or for something he can give over in its entirety as a shiur on the subject. Yes I was waaaaaaaaaaay off.
If he was looking for a mareh makom on the subject, a passuk that is relevant but in no way all-encompassing then I stand by the relevance of my provided passuk to the subject at hand.
“(you comparison here, as you admit, wasn’t too great either).”
sigh, yes I admit
Joseph
Yes that is because the British turned over the “Palestine Question” to the UN.
That doent mean they are relevant when it comes to opinions that arent asked of them. The UN has condmened Israel countless times (with and without the U.S.’s vote) while it doesnt look good it doesnt really matter.
DY
I was being sarcastic.
Mw13: “Gedolim backed nachal Charedi… thoughts?”
A-Y “What are you asking? For laymen to comment on the opinions of the gedolei Torah?”
ubiquitin : “Lol american_yerushalmi that is exactly what Moshe Rabbeinu replied when told “…???-???? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??????”
Actually that is NOT what Moshe Rabbeinu replied. When he was told “..???-???? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??????” His reply was not “A child in kindergarten doesn’t comment on the opinion of a professor in a university.” yisro had a “comment on the opinions of the gedolei Torah” and shared it.
Sorry if that wasnt clear
I’m not sure what you mean.
I am saying that laypeople have a right to have (and voice) an opinion.
Moshe Rabbeinu did not tell Yisro, keep your opinion to yourself “A child in kindergarten doesn’t comment on the opinion of a professor in a university”
Thanks for the opportunity.
As, I understood A-y he was saying that we have no right to an opinion if the Gedolim have one. Note: this discussion isnt about practice or acting on said opinion against the gedolim, but rather on just having an opinion. As he put it, it is wrong “For laymen to comment on the opinions of the gedolei Torah” and if one does “it isn’t worth very much.” To which I provided a passuk indicating that a LAymen should speak up and voice an opinion, and that in fact it can be quite valuable.
Again, note if Moshe Rabbinu had told Yisro, no my way is better I have my reasons etc. My point STILL stands since my point is laypeople are allowed to have (and voice) their own opinions.
Is it exactly the same? Of course not! (obviously Yisro wasnt on an online forum and he spoke to Moshe directly) but I believe it is comparable.
(As for the other thread perhaps we have different interpretations of “mareh makom” or different understanding of what the OP was looking for. I understood him as wanting to prepare a shiur on the topic from scracth beginning with pesukim, Gemaras, Rishonim achronim and ending with contemprary sh”ut on the subject. So I provided a passuk that comes to mind regarding the subject as a starting point. PErhaps I misunderstood what he was looking for)
Hardly DY.
I am not bolstering any opinion. When I want to I certainly know how, you have seen my extended rants on more than one occasion. I am just adding a helpful tidbit to point out things aren’t as black and white as some seem to think.
In the other case you are referring to, I added a pasuk (before your mareh mekomos were visible) which is not taken out of context. As I understand it it is a clearly saying that the burden of milchama should be shared by all. Now obviously there is what to be said as learning also protects, perhaps todays milchama doesn’t have the same staus as then etc etc. I did not say (and di not mean to imply) that the passuk is open and shut case to the OP’s post. THe OP was asking for mareh mekomos and I provided, what I believe to be a relevant one. I have never attended a shiur where a person brought up a topic and said here is the pasuk, veiter next topic, and am surprised that you think that is what I meant.
Similarly in this situation. The idea that laymen cant have an opinion on something that Gedolim discuss, is foregin to Traditional Judaism. This is a yet a new twist on the “Daas Torah” innovation. At least with classical Daas torah (as I understand it) we are mevatel our Daas to Gedolim, but are allowed to have opinions. American_yerushalmi seems to be saying that we are no allowed to have an opinion at all once the Gedolim have spoken.. I don’t understand how the passuk is “taken out of context” As I understand the incident. Yisro saw A Gadol doing something wrong and he voiced his opinion. Obviously with derech eretz, perhaps not in a public forum etc etc. BUt how on Earth is it not relevant. The passuk quite clearly indicates that it is appropriate “For laymen to comment on the opinions of the gedolei Torah” And that they can be quite worthwhile. After all a parshas was added because of Yisro’s speaking up. How is this out of context or k’neged halacha?
I’m not sure why you cant reply like a mentch. If you don’t think its relevant explain why. If you want clarification ask for it
Lol american_yerushalmi
that is exactly what Moshe Rabbeinu replied when told “…???-???? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??????”
It has occured dozens of times.
There have been occasions where the US voted to condemn israel too
Ahin
Should the ou avoid certifying a product labeled “gluten free” since someone might decide it isn’t chometz?
Ahin
This is what I alluded to earlier. The government holds “chalav shenishtanu” isnt milk. I.e. milk derivatives are non-dairy. As far as halacha goes, (most hold that) derivatives of milk are milchig.
The OU therefore writes OU-D it is milching if somebody decides to ignore the OU’s clearly labeling it as dairy and instead to rely on the ingrediebnts or The FDS”s pesak that it is “non-dairy” why is that the OU’s problem.
I really sont understand theese people. I assume you are checking for a hechsher you see the OU you see the D which you know means the OU is telling you it is dairy (unless you call and they tell you otherwise) why would you listen to the company or FDA over the hashgacha?
Joseph
Now your talking… I’m not sure, but I dont think any of those are a minhag.
Yet as usual you havent answered my questions (though perhaps answering a question with a question is in fact a minhag)
Here they are again
how long does it take for a Jewish practice to become a minhag?
Is eating cholent on shabbos (specifically, not just hot food) a minhag?
Is spinning a 4 sided top on Chanukah a minhag?
Feel free to answer the question to oomis as well
here http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/upsherins-are-a-minhag-shtus#post-612967
Joseph, that’s silly everybody plays checkerst. That’s not a JEWISH practice.
Im sure some will insist playing cards on chanukah is a minhag.
Some will insist cards and or chess are a minhag on nittel.
All of us would say (I think) that spinning a four-sided top on chanukah is a minhag.
Which brings me back to my question, at what point do these become a minhag?
Is eating cholent on shabbos (specifically, not just hot food) a minhag?
Oomis and anyone else for that matter,
“The Torah refer to man as an eitz hasadeh (hope I got that right), and just as…”
I’m curious, what to people think hapened
do you believe the minhag arose for some other reason and this reason was used to justify it (not that this is bad! Jewish practices should be justified!)
Or
Was it always a Jewish practice going back to mantan torah, alluded to in the passuk and practiced over millenia, yet not written down until a few hundred years ago for whatever reason (including by those who set about to record minhagim like the maharil)
OR
At some point did someone look at passuk and make this hekish , thereby introducing a new practice and if so who and when?
Or something else
Joseph
“Chanuka presents isn’t a minhag.”
How do you know just because it wasn’t written down? (I believe you used this argument regarding schlissel chalah)
I have many many sources and a mesora handing down the heilige minhag of chanukah presents tracing back all the way to the ribono Shel olam giving us a pacha shemen as a present on the very.
first chanuka
Of course I can’t provide these sources but they are there in toras nistar
Seriously though, (and this is for everybody) how long does it take for a Jewish practice to become a minhag?
Lf and Joseph
Out of curiosity do you feel that way about the ancient heilige minhag of chanukah presents, practiced by many many frum yidden, is your approach “if it’s not your minhag, keep your respectful distance. And kindly keep your mouth firmly shut.”
“The minhag is actually referenced in quite early writings”
What is your definition of early?
Unless you mean “Vayigdal hyeled vayigamol” to the best of my knowledge it isn’t mentioned until 17th century
Just to clarify what mdg said,
Legally cassein, whey, lactose etc are not milk.
The phrase “may contain …” is not fda regulTed. So if a product doesn’t contain milk but does contain lactose it is halacikly milchig yet legally not.
This is especially problematic with lactose and it’s derivatives since allergy to milk is usually to proteins.
Bottom line is to call the hashgacha and find out. The fda and legavdil halacha have different rules/regulations and definitions
Ndg
Among other distinctions, a big one is that saying “vote for me because I’m a woman”, at least in this situation is not discriminatory. It is merely a chance to help make history. Now while I agree that is far from the best reason to vote for somebody, there is no denying that a female president would be historic.
(And this is even without considering the lack of equality in the work place eg pay differences etc making a female president arguably a way of promoting equality)
However not voting simply because she’s a woman is not similar to the above at all!
This is but one difference. And while not being a great reason to vote for somebody (and Hillary never said it was) I don’t think it is discriminatory.
Of course this is not at all related to my example with hiring/not hiring a jew. Which I still need to think about, and await your reply to my earlier question to help me formulate my reply
Ndg
No the scenario is not the same, they usually aren’t. But they are similar.
I’ll get back to you with an actual explanation as to the difference (between voting because woman and not voting because woman)
I have to think how to formulate the answer perhaps your response to the following may help…
But first if you would mind clarifying
I’m not sure what you mean by “Hire me over the other person, because I am a Jew.” Are you saying I should? Because I probably would (things being otherwise similar obviously)
Yet
If someone wouldn’t hire you BECAUSE you are a jew. We would rightly complain.
Do you agree?
Do you think this is a double standard?
Also kudos for agreeing “trump is crazy but…”
In my mind there is no but (although SOME of your subsequent statements may be factual)
Being crazy disqualifies you, in my mind, from being president. Being a liar, arrogant, flip flop per etc…all of which apply to hillary (though I’d argue and be happy to provide examples lthat trump is worse) do not necessary disqualify you.
Ndg
I hear your point, but it is different.
Imagine the following scenarios:
1. BOSS 1: “let’s hire ndg, I like working with jews”
2. Boss 2: “make sure you don’t hire ndg, he is a jew”
I’m not saying I agree with boss 1 per se. But I disagree that “this is no different “
Also lol at “hillary flip flops more”
Trump has flipped on every position, including which partyou he identifies with.
The only thing he has been consistent on is misogyny and racism. On those he has been fairly consitent
Bamidbar 32:6
Thanks Joseph
The source I was looking whe I asked earlier, was directed to cheerybim who said “This is based on the fact that for the past fifty years, the intermarriage rate, outside of Orthodoxy, is close to 75%.”
You are right about the the interrmarige rate among non-orthodox being higher than the 13% I came across for the reason you mention (However not much higher since in 2013 PEW estimates 10% ORthodox, which was less in 1970. So the vast majority of jews were not frum and the intermarrge rates I came across ranged 13-17% so even if we “correct” for the orthodox included in that denominator it isnt a large number that needs to be excluded thus the numerator wont rise by much). But there is no way it could have been 75%. Even in 2013 the numbers arent quite 75% Though they are close. And sadly 75% is certainly believable in 2013
joseph
Sorry for being a nuisance, I dont see where it says int he report that the intermarriage rate for Any group of Jews in 1970 was 75%.
They have two tables relevant to our discussion. on page 35 they break down by year but not denomination with numbers very similar to those posted above.
On page 37 they break down by denomination but not year
conservative 27%
Reform 50%
No denomination 69%
Combined is obviously less than 69% let alone 75%. (Im too lazy to actually calculate it but given that reform is 35% and conservative 18% of the population (page 10), the intermarriage average is closer to 50% than 69% (No denomination is 30%) regardless it seems to be less than 69% let alone 75%
however I dont have a hard time believing 75% intermarriage rate today. Though a source for that would be nice.
I do have a very hard time accepting a 75% intermarrige rate over the past 50 years as cherrybim said above. that was the source I was looking for.
According to National Jewish Population Survey:
Year marriage began % Intermarried
Before 1970 13%
1970-1979 28%
1980-1984 38%
1985-1990 43%
1991-1995 43%
1996-2001 47%
“This is based on the fact that for the past fifty years, the intermarriage rate, outside of Orthodoxy, is close to 75%.”
source?
I came across 17% intermarriage rate in 1970 (less than 50 years ago) (mentioned in article by Uriel Heilman in JTA regarding the 2013 PEW study)
Health
Have you seen the proofs that Jews were responsible for the events of 9/11. OR that the Holocaust is a hoax?
Both intermarriage and conversions (legitimate or otherwise were not that common as recently as 50 years ago, let alone 250 years ago
“If the run would still work even without the joker why can’t you just take it??”
You can
however it seems there are a different ways to play (note how there are 4 different responses above)
The rules my set have have it my way but online there are a variety of rules most of which say it has to be replaced.
It seems in tournament games (presumably this is the most “official” way when part of a run it cant be replaced and when part of a group it must be replaced by the two mising colors (note how this is a 5th set of rules)
(Eg if group is red 8 black 8 and joker for the joker to be removed it must be replaced by yelow AND blue 8’s)
You absolutely dont have to replace it (why would you?)
however you cant put the joker in your rack
AY
i’m sorry you are hocking ah kup. there are many who say Kaddish on asarah b’teves for family members who were killed in the holocaust when they dont know the date. Many who dont know a yahrtzeit of their family members have a day observed by the town. this is especially true this time of year, go to BOro PArk where many Hungarians who had family killed Shavuos time 1944 live. They say Kaddish on a random day this time of year.
Kaddish has nothing to do with the dead per se, study the words it is a glorification of the Ribbono shel olam and serves as a zechus on any day. Look hate the tzionim as much as you want but to denigrate BOTH “gentile customs” and l’heavdil saying Kaddish doesnt make a whole lot of sense.
There are many times that deceased are remembered even not on their day of yahrtzeit. Have you really never seen a siyum made liluey nishmas somebody where a child of the deceased is asked to say the kaddish? Are you not aware that at a hakomas hamatzeiva kaddish is usually said?
El malei is often not said on a yahrtzeit, yizkor is said not on a yahrtzeit. You simply are criticising for critiscm’s sake.
As an aside, I disagree that sirens are goyish. It evokes a sense of contemplation or even awe. The equivelent of the Shofar mentioned by Amos 3:6. wreaths may be a a goyish custum. But as for flags well pay attention to laining next week (this week if you live in Eretz Yisroel).
At any rate even if these are goyish and I believe reasonable people can disagree. Critscing kaddish and kel molei is foolishness
“Why is there so much effort to get people to commemorate Yom HaZikarom, but not Memorial Day? “
Easy! It is appropriate to mourn your Brothers and cousins more than strangers. That is not to say one shouldnt commemorate/mourn the death strangers who have made the ultimate sacrifice . But between the two it is normal and apropriate to mourn your (Not yours Joseph) brothers and cousins first
CA
BTW whether the court is right or left wing is a side issue.
My point is, it is a stretcht o believe that the court is in on the conspiracy to allow a Kenyan to be president when he might not be elligbile. IT strecths the imagination to beleive the outspoken Scalia would keep his mouth shut and allow a foreign usurper to be President.
Incidently I always found this aspect of conspiracy theorists the most perplexing. The amount of confidence they have in the governement that these complex theories can be organized and kept quiet for decades. Are we realy to believe that the same entity that runs the USPS planted Birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers in 1961 planning for the Kenyan-Islamist-fascist-atheist-communist to becoem president 60 years later? And got the other branches of the governement to go along?
ITs certainly possible, but I for one do not have that much faith in the government