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Blue soul
Years ago their was an interview with the founders by zev brenner. (A quick goole search brings it up) from the interview it is clear that their intention is to find people on th eedge of leaving orthodoxy and push them over th edge.
This does in fact make them reshaim.
For example at first the founders claimed that their events had kohser food available. Obviously if their goal was anything other than pushing people away of course they would have a kosher food option. However After repeated callers stating this wasnt true and psuhing from zev brenner, the founders admitted they did not offer kosher food. In other words in order to be “helped” by their organization are in fact being helped by being taught (almost forced) ” to eat treif… stop being religious.”
This is but one example.
Of course it isnt on their website
ZD
I’m not sure why. I think it is that Footsteps makes me nervous since they claim to do the same as project makom.
when footsteps started One of the founders was on Zev Brenner and explained themselves along the lines f what project makm does. However the founder was exposed as a liar when a few callers called in. for example. The founder at first claimed that their events all had a kosher food option, which turned out not to be true
Joseph
“mo is a bedieved observance…You seem to have the same sense on this.”
Not at all! While adhering to halacha, I think MO is lechatchila being Chareidi is bedieved since being involved in both worlds is too difficult for some so if you are to choose one world obviously you have to shun the world at large, but it is bedieved
However admittedly, for some this isnt the case and they end up on the wrong side of balacnicng both worlds. So in principle I think we agree
Joseph
fair enough.
How about the idea behind it
here from their website:
“…but many Charedi Jews who want to transition to a more Centrist or Modern Orthodox community face hurdles that prevent them from doing so (whether cultural, educational, or simply feeling unwelcomed). Some of these people end up leaving religious life altogether.
Makom will offer one on one mentoring so that participants can meet a new friend in a community to which they previously had no access; classes to discuss questions and variances in Jewish hashkafa and law; meetings to share experiences…”
To tell you the truth, Im not sure what to think. It definitely rubs me the wrong way but being that the problem they address is real, and the only alternative I know of is footsteps, I think this may be a necessary evil.
Joseph
I agree with you whole heartedly regarding footsteps.
My question to you though, is what are your thoughts regarding project makom?
Health
she says why she left
“he combined three jobs in one in order not have to pay more people (I was receptionist, assistant, and ……..cleaning lady) so between all my gross conditions (cleaning bathroom garbage etc) I led [left?] in addition to the uncomfortableness”
Men and Women are very different. Obviously there are physical diferences as well as genetic differences. However there are also psychological differences, personality differences and mental differences. Now granted some of those latter differences are learned but many are believed to be innate and many studies have demonstrated such (though it may not always be politically correct to say so)
I’m fairly cetain most of the right wing bend on this forum would agree with the above.
Now as I mentioned earlier there are times where the genetics and appearance (genotype and phenotype) dont match up. There are cases such as androgen insensitivity syndrome, gonadal dysgenesis where a person is genetically male or female but physically looks like the other. Sometimes on the outside looks like one but iside looks like another . Sometimes it is hard to tell (as in an andrgynous)
The above paragraph is all factual with no room for argument. As to how to label them, that is a secondary issue and one potentially fraught with controversy.
Now being that the appearance and genes dotn always match up, taking it a step further I dotn see why it is so far-fetched to say that the personality or psychology and genes/appearance dont always match up. Again what to “label” people who are genetically/physically male but psychologically female or vice versa is s separate issue (albeit closely linked). But I’m not sure why the rigth wing is so dismissive of the aove existing
“But if the outdoor plumbing and the chromosomes point the other way, sorry. An XY will never be an XX.”
Ah but what if they dont match
What if are XY but look XX or XX and look XY?
what about XX or XY that got an operation so the apperance no longer matches their genotype (not that it is halkchicly allowed, but say they did it)
what about XO, XXY, XXX, XYY, all of these exist and some are easier to “label” than others. bottom line is it isnt as black and white as some think
what if from the what they are ambiguous and you just cant tell?
dovrosenbaum
So your solution to the “problem” you identify is to elect an liberal authoritarian who thinks he is a republican?
“the silent majority of real Americans love him.”
Lol at “real Americans”
And double lol at calling Trump’s supporters “silent”
computer bum
Hashem also put harmful bacteria (or allowed them to get there by poor handling) into milk that is killed by pasturization.
” It is known that calves that get pasturized milk get sick and die much more often then otherwise. “
phew, its a good thing I’m not a calf
Incidentally which enzymes are beneficial to humans that are in milk and are killed by pasteurization?
as for the OP’s question, generally speaking no, it isnt dangerous worst case you’ll get listeria, salmonella, camplybacter but those are generally well tolerated by adults with a healthy immune system.
Except in pregnancy where listeria in particular has been known to lead to fetal death r”l.
There are some bacteria that can be devastating to healthy individuals such as Ecoli O157:H7 that has been linked to raw milk int he past, but undercooked ground beef is a much more common source
lilmod
Her questuion was whether it is”halachicly ok” I am not saying if the guy sems liek a sleaze ball or something seems off about a medical practice with no patients or nurses she should work there anyway.
I am addressing halacha. Which is what she asked.
As for halacha we have a guide. Adding your own rules, and paskening based on them is what reform does. saying pizza is assur because it is in the fifth chelek of shulchan aruch or working in an unlocked office where patients are constantly walking in and out is assur because it is in the fifth shulchan aruch is reform.
Again there is obviously no chiyuv to work there and if it seems off or her common sense/intution says something is off, of course she shoudlnt work there. Though not because of a halachic concern. Sorry if i wasnt clear about that.
She asked, and I was addressing whether it is “halachicaly ok”
“What am I missing?
The fifth chelek of Shulchan Aruch.”
sorry, Im not at all versed in fake halacha. I defer to DY.
I think Avi Weiss is working on rewriting the shulchan aruch with a 5th chelek. The one I have from R” Yosef Karro has 4
“I’m a big Trump fan but I’ve become so disgusted at his lack of a filter on his mouth! “
Statements like this truly perplex me. The only reason Trump had any support was because of his comments. He doens have any other qualification. He was the guy who “tells it like it is”
Now granted, I assume everybody has thei limit as to how much offensive nonsensical comments they can take until theyve had enough. But make no mistake, he hasnt changed in the past few weeks by “unning his mouth, insulting every person who says a bad word about him, he’s now where he is.”
that is who he is, and who he has been for decades. He isnt a candidate who turned up a year ago that nobody otherwise knew abut. He wasa “reality” star for decades, long before “reality TV” existed
I’m confused about this whole discussion
I’m not sure why you’d have to be alone in the office with him with nobody about to arrive
the bottom line is
We have a shulchan aruch their is no need to add your own rules. Their are English guidebooks that can help as well I believe R’ Ribiat has one.
If working there will violate hilchos yichud then it is assur. IF it wont then it isnt.
What am I missing? As far as the specifics of this case, Not nearly enough details are provided. who else works there? who has access to enter? Are the doors locked? Are staff/patients always arriving? etc etc
While On the subject, I just heard from Rabbi Resiman beshem Rav Gifter that “today in yeshivas we learn more and more about less and less until we will know everything about nothing”
If you dont get an A in the course and a 100 on every test it is because he/she is antisemitic
Well Trump is very smart (I know becasue he says so)
And he said in 2004
I haven’t been around as above mentioned Great and noble leader but I have to agree
BTW
The examples you cite are all torah shebiksav. (which makes your question stronger)
Health
Thanks! Got it
(Though can you see where I was confused?
This post seems to contain one thought:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/condemnation-of-jerusalem-parade/page/2#post-616614 )
Thanks again for elaborating
Health
“I didn’t say it was [i.e curbale]! I just quoted from NARTH!”
true you never said it though it is ahrd for me to otherwise follow the logic in this post of yours:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/condemnation-of-jerusalem-parade/page/2#post-616614
“Reparative therapy has essentially been debunked and proven to cause a lot of pain, trauma and damage.”
I dont follow, you responded to that with “Being gay, if you want to be Dan L’caf Zecus, is a Mental Disorder.
If not, they are Resashyim Gemurrim!”
Do you mind elaborating? He says Reparative therapy doesnt work. To which you reply It is either a mental disorder or they are resahim?
Subtitle
That is certainly true.
Though I meant my comment in reference to WS’s comment to which Health was responding.
I did not mean it in regard to a parade to celebarate thhis kind of lifestyle
Health
“Being gay, if you want to be Dan L’caf Zecus, is a Mental Disorder.
If not, they are Resashyim Gemurrim!”
a. Just becasue it a mental disorder doesnt mean it is curable. You can call it what you want that doesnt change anything WS wrote.
b. Just becasue somebody succumbs to a yetzer harah, doesnt make them a rasha gamur. I know a poster here who sometimes is oiver anoas devarim and often lies (see for example this post http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/condemnation-of-jerusalem-parade#post-616490) That doesnt mean he has a mental disorder nor does it mean he is a rasha gamur. He, like all of us has a yetzer hara and unfortunately sometimes stumbles.
I’ll admit I have the same struggle (not the lying so much, but definitely the onas devarim)
“The moral degradation with time is easily visible to anyone with an eye on the past”
Depends on which morals. Granted regarding Arayos things are worse than in the past. However with other moral issues we are better. For example slavery, prisoners, enemies during war particularly civilians, women, minorities, including jews, mentally ill are all examples that I believe we’ve improved.
And even Arayos, it depends on how you define “past” clearly incest isn’t much of an issue, don’t forget chazal say in Noah’s time they were writing kesubos between men. It comes and goes with time it isn’t a steady downtrend
Health
Are you aware that there are countries beside for the US and North Korea?
nowhere did I say I am opposed to elections, that you came to that conclusion shows how little you know on the subject.
voting for president is a constitutional right. That is not what we are discussing and that hasnt taken place yet for 2016.
I realize you are confused since there has been much talk so far about presedintial election. Yet that is still a few months away. ALL the voting so far has been to nominate candidates to run for president. NOT for president. Nobody has yet voted for Trump to be president.
If this confuses you in aany way please let me know.
Know the nominees are chosen by a party. There is no constitutional right to elect a party’s nominee. Each party is free to make their own rules. Since the 60’s the party’s began a process that appears democratic but as explained above isnt, really. see here: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/what-was-cruz-thinking/page/2#post-616434.
you where right about that last statment. I was wrong when I said “NO country has mass voting in their primaries” I meant no OTHER countries. I’m sorry if that confused you.
However the bottom line is, even though it might seem Democratic, the primary process isnt at all. The parties make the rules and can decide how they see fit.
Health
You are very funny.
“Your whole post is full of Narishkeit!”
Care to elaborate? Earlier you said “Again with your liberal lies!”
Care to point out a lie?
“Do you know what an exception to the rule is?”
I do
“As an English teacher, I think you know – Feivel.”
I am not an English teacher (Do you really have to be an English teacher to know what an exception to the rule is?) and I am not Feivel
(See here for example http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/hospital-horror-stories)
Besides there is more than one exception, as Joseph pointed out up until 2003. Certain acts were illegal in 14 states even if “kept in the closet”
I dont see how you can square this with your original statement
LEts keep things simple.
you said ” In the US, no one cared when they lived in the closet!”
Was this true or false?
Lol health
you are confusing primaries with national elections.
You can argue for reform that primaries should have democratic rules. Fine, you arent the first but that isnt how it is set up, nor has it ever been. Please note we are discussing the primaries as they are today in 2016. Not how they SHOULD be in your perfect world. As they exist now the process sint democratic few think it is. That you thought it was, just shows you dont know much on the subject. who would make those rules? The Federal government? So in your mind there should be two national elections one for the nominee then another for the president. you do know that isnt in the constitution at all, right? In fact the whole notion of political parties isnt mentioned in the constitution.
“If you don’t like Trump, too bad!”
It’s not that I dont like him (though I really really dont) It is that he is not a Republican and certainly not a conservative. I didnt like George W. Bush either, but he didnt hijack and trick a party.
“Most Republicans voted for him.”
They have been tricked. The evangelicals think they are getting a G-d fearing individual have been tricked. The conservatives who think they are getting a limited-govt conservative have been tricked. And for that matter, the anti-semites who think they are getting a 4th Reich have (probably) been tricked.
“There are places for people like you, like N. Korea!”
um wrong, North Korea doesnt have elections. However there are NO places for people like you, since to the best of my knowledge NO country has mass voting in their primaries (please share any country that does)
Health
“Again with your liberal lies!”
Which part is a lie?
“We wanted them outed in the army!”
Exactly what I said. In other words when you said “In the US, no one cared when they lived in the closet!” That was false, as you just admitted. We are not discussing whether they should or should not have been banned from the army. i am pointing out that when you said “In the US, no one cared when they lived in the closet!” you were wrong since “”We wanted them outed in the army!” You (and many others) did care even when they lived in the closet.
Do you see how these two statements are contradictory?
Furthermore, As Joseph pointed out many states had laws banning what goes on in the bedroom. You can say these were good laws, fine though that isnt what we are discussing.
Theonly thing I am pointing out to you is that this statement of yours “In the US, no one cared when they lived in the closet!”
Is factually incorrect.
“And btw, what do you mean by discriminated against? IDK any case were s/o was denied a job because of being gay.”
Are you being serious? You JUST said you support discriminating agaisnt someone for being gay, even if he stays in the closet. (again, in direct contradiction to your earlier statement) “We wanted them outed in the army!” Again, we are not discussing whether the reason for said discrimination is good or bad. It could be a great reason. For whatever reason the US army unlike most armies, couldnt function if gay people served. fine, though that isnt the point. The boss who doesnt want workers who have to run out Friday afternoon all winter and take off half of September/October also says he has a good reason.
Thank you Joseph
That is a much better example than mine
Health
“There is such a thing as a democratic process.”
True!
“The running for democratic primary is supposed to be democratic.”
says who? It wasnt always this way (I believe it began in the 60’s), it isnt that way in most countries.
” Not just so who follows the party – line for line.”
It doesnt have to be “line for line”
But doesnt it bother you that your party’s nominee didnt agree with your party’s platform on almost ANYTHING until 2015 and still differs on many
eg: Iraq war, impeaching Bush, Free trade?
“These parties are based on democratic principles.”
As usual, you dont know what you are talking about. The party is a private entity and is free to make their own rules. In fact as you may have noticed each state has its own system. Some have primaries some have caucuses some have both. Washington has a primary that deosnt count
Some states divide up the delegates proportionally some are winner take all, some are a mix.
Of course then there are the superdelegates.
And on the Republican side too. As Trump realized and whined late in the game, the process isnt fair. If Trump hadnt won in the first round the delegates become “unbound” and are free to wote for whomever they want. Sadly for the gOP leadership (and perhaps for America,)
this didnt happen
Here are a few actual examples:
Sanders won Wyoming Caucus by 12 % points. Yet Hillary got 11 delegates and Bernie 7
Trump won the Louisiana Primary yet of the unbound delegates 18 went to Cruz and 9 to Trump.
and for a real headache try to figure out how Nevada decides
In no way is the process democratic. That you think it is shows how little you know about the priamry system as it has always existed both before its change in 1968 and after.
“Obviously you don’t understand this, whether this applies to Trump or to Sanders!”
i understand it quite well. And thats why the Democrats didnt get stuck with Sanders, while the Republicans are stuck with Trump
Health
“This is true in the US also. In the US, no one cared when they lived in the closet!”
This is demonstrably false
for example, I’m sure you are old enough to remember When “Dont ask dont tell” began. At the time it was the liberal position to support “dont ask dont tell”, while conservatives where against it. Conservatives very much cared “when they lived in the closet” and wanted them “outed” and prevented from serving, if a person had those tendencies, just keeping it to themselves was not good enough, and they were discriminated against even if “they lived in the closet”. And this was not that long ago!
It is interesting that less than 20 years later “Dont ask dont tell” became the conservative position, which is kind of where you seem to stand on the issue, ie. keep it to yourself. while liberals opposed it.
Health
“So did it bother you when the DNC did unethical behavior in support of Clinton?!? This is now, not in the future.
Don’t worry, the DemonCrats don’t do anything evil, not like Trump.
They are all angels!”
a. compared to Trump yes they are angels. the democrats arent calling for war crimes. How is that not a deal breaker?
b. Just the opposite. IT bother me that the GOP didnt do the same to bother trump.
The US is the only country that I am aware of that has this silly system of the masses choosing a party’s candidate. (Even in the US it is a relatively recent innovation). That is how the Republican party got stuck with a candidate who is not conservative at all. If you define conservative as believing in limited government and free markets, Trump is less conservative than Clinton. Which is no surprise, considering he has over the years often said over and over how he identifies with Democrats more than Republicans. Yet here we are with a bunch of authritarian nuts taking over the GOP. A few true Conservatives, refuse to join his takeover, however most are opportunists, who dont seem to believe in their own party’s message.
The DNC was right to keep out Sanders. The party elite/insiders SHOULD choose the party’s candidate. They are the ones who actually care about the party and its message.
If you want a corrupt-narcissist-big government-reality star for President, no problem go start your own party or, run as a Democrat. Why take over the GOP?
DY
“It’s about an ideology which says to put your children at risk to settle more parts of Eretz Yisroel,”
Now, I’m not saying I agree with that ideology, but I hear it, and there obviously was a time when this applied. There where 7 years of milchama to conquer E”Y, there were many more wars after to hold on to it. The idea of giving life to settle E”Y isnt automatically wrong, and nowhere in this thread does KJ say why it is wrong. The trip to E”Y once upon a time was long and dangerous. Many Gedolim made the trip some making it others dying on the way.
Because that isnt really what he is talking about
youve been tricked.
This is what KJ chusid, the op, says it is about:
“I wasn’t C”V implying that Israeli sovereignty over any of the holy land is justified. I was just trying to show the danger of purposely stoking conflict with settlements which are heresy and crime just like the whole state of Israel”
why mix in “the whole state of Israel” Most areas of ISrael are as safe as NY?
This isnt a thread about safety.
DY
This thread isnt really about safety.
In case you missed it
” I wasn’t C”V implying that Israeli sovereignty over any of the holy land is justified. I was just trying to show the danger of purposely stoking conflict with settlements which are heresy and crime just like the whole state of Israel”
(as if we c”v we needed his justification to return to our land lol)
If his concern is “purposely stoking conflict” he can start his criticism at home.
Of course if his concern is good old anti-zionism. Thats fine too, but dont dress it up as something else
Please KJ chusid spare us your phoniness.
Start by protesting your own communitiy’s hisgaros be’umos regarding the KJ annexation
flatbusher
regarding hillary you said
“calculating liar and has been that way all her career and to award with the presidency is shameful.”
Now I agree whole-heartedly. However that is the way of politicians, they lie.
Tom Friedman explained the difference well
” What is grating about Hillary is that her prevarications seem so unnecessary and often insult our intelligence. But they are not about existential issues. As for Trump, his lies are industrial size and often contradict each other. But there is no theory behind his lies, except what will advance him, which is why Trump is only scary if he wins. Otherwise, his candidacy will leave no ideas behind. It will just be a reality TV show that got canceled.”
Trump has praised Putin, Saddam Hussein Qaddafi and Kim jung un. He has on more than one occasion advocated for war crimes. He has downplayed chemical weapon use as not a big deal.
Are we really having this conversation?
Yes Hillary is a liar. Yes she isnt trustworthy. But war crimes?!
forget the fact that many of Trump’s supporters are antisemitic and soem are already pronouncing his victory as the beginning of the 4th reich(!!). although he has on more than one occasion shown a reluctance to condemn them. I grant he isnt an antisemite. He is pro-trump that is it.
Forget that.
War crimes Should be a non-starter.
Who in their right mind would endorse somebody who insults thier wife, and accuses their father of having been involved in JFK’s assassination?
Am I missing something?
Never mind the fact that in MArch Trump said he wouldnt neccesarily support the nominee (which we already knew) and he didnt care if Cruz supported him or not.
Kudos to Cruz and the very few conservatives who stand up for what they believe in
“the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach/strength of your dreams and your willingness to work (hard) for them “
Melania Trump 7/18/16
Michelle Obama 8/25/08
Thanks Joe
That is a great point
What is their opposition to the eruv?
If their opposition is not anti-religious and is not unevenly applied for example they want no wires in the sky becasue they cant fly kites. And there are in fact no wires including utility wires they may have a case.
However usually there is uneven enforcement of these rules its rare to find a town with no wires in the sky and nothing attached to utility poles which a NJ court in Tenafly deemed unconstitutional
DY
he quoted it in his first post
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/friday-of-chukas-attack#post-615690
DrYidd
“YK can never occur on friday because of lo adu rosh.”
Technically its the opposite, lo adu rosh So that YK wont fall on a Friday (ie the “d Wednesday” of adu) but the gist of your post is correct.
MA
What confuses me most about your post isnt the fact that we do in fact occasionally fast on Friday and never push a fast that falls on Friday early fine, you forgot hat we did a few years ago, ITs that why would you argue on the MAgen Avraham?
You quoted the M”A and said it was against halacha?
Working on it
“As I asked before, don’t those lives matter?”
Of course they do!
but …
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/recent-shootingsprotests#post-615155
Joseph
where they happy with that?
iacisrmma, while what you say is true, I dont think its quite practical to give away being the chasan as a kibbud
miami lawer.
Thats not quite true. I admit there is a real problem in the black community, (though I dont have a solution I am beginning to see the merits in affirmative action as a step in that direction).
The problem is it is used as an excuse not to address real issues. Look at the OP which essentially said, who cares if cops kill black people since black people also kill black people.
why does it have to be all or nothing? Starting with police violence is a great place to start!
yosef
Thats what I did at my Chasuna! Though perhaps I am wrong but the sense among the wedding I went to was like Sam said and I said earlier.
Unfortunatly more rabbanim showed up than expected so I gave one of them Krias hatenaim. He was visibly upset and stormed out immediately after
oooh this is fun.
So I think all agree siddur kidushin is top.
In my travels I have found that the Yeshivish oilam views eidei kiddushin as a higher kavod than the Berachos with Reading the Kesubah being the lowest.
(The idea being siddur kidushin requires one to be competent in “Inyanei gittin vekidushin” followed by Eidim which requires neemanos, followed bvy berachos which any Gadol could recite followed by Krias Hakesuba which, as R’ Shachter once put it “Can be read by a monkey”)
Chasidim However place Bracha achrita as the highest after siddur kiddushin with Krias Hakesuba up there. and Eidi kidushin the lowest.
Though i’d love to hear other’s input
While there is no question both are liars Tom Friedman Said it best in a piece entitled
here is an excerpt:
and his conclusion
“What is grating about Hillary is that her prevarications seem so unnecessary and often insult our intelligence. But they are not about existential issues. As for Trump, his lies are industrial size and often contradict each other. But there is no theory behind his lies, except what will advance him, which is why Trump is only scary if he wins. Otherwise, his candidacy will leave no ideas behind. It will just be a reality TV show that got canceled.”
zahavsdad
while Trump may not be an-antisemite (and I agree he isnt, he isnt anti-anything the only thing he stands for is Trump) He has repeatedly shown a tolerance for the antisemites and racists in his midst as long as they support him which is worrisome
Joseph
see b -d
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/recent-shootingsprotests#post-615155
and I’m not sure what you mean. There are protests! Everybody rightly condemned and protests the murder of 5 police officers last week. The cop killer dint walk off as many who shot unarmed or non-violent blacks have in the recent past.
However when it comes to police on black shootings many have the following attitude “Another day, another criminal getting into an altercation with law enforcement.”
see here http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/police-brutality-and-possible-racism#post-614970
While black on black crime is certainly a problem:
a. that is largely gang violence which while bad, if a perosn isnt involved in a gang he is unlikely to be killed by “black crime” for driving round with a busted taillight or selling loose cigarettes.
b. PArt of the problem is the lack of accoumtability. We all saw the video of Eric Garner’s death (execution?). I definitely understand losing faith in the system when his murderers (whether intentional or not) wont even stand trial for their crime (again intentional or not).
c. Police should be held to a higher standard than criminals. Saying Well “black criminals” are killing balcks too so why does it matter if the police do it, Just doesnt make a lot of sense.
d. I dont think protesting drug dealers would get them to stop their criminal ways. Protesting the police/government on the other hand (obviously non-violently) is a wholly reasonable way to demand change.
Ah but Kenny G isn’t a Goy