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philosopher:
What about Chasidish, Yeshivish, Heimish, Litvish, Modernish, Yekkish….?
aries2756:
Thanks for that write up. Its not just young bachurim who are guilty of that. I observe people of all ages and backgrounds acting this way.
chesedname:
I agree there seems to be some selective modding around here.
First of all if that is really your name why publicize it on a public forum.
I have some advice, before you leave think about what you want to accomplish theres. Maybe even write it down and take it with you. Periodically look at it and ask yourself, “am I accomplishing what I came here to accomplish? If not, why not, whats getting in the way.”
If you are going to EY to spend a year partying then please remember that Eretz Yisroel is a holy place and anything inappropriate one does in EY one gets a bigger aveirah and bigger onesh for.
chofetzchaim:
That comment about Hatzolah is so off base. Most Hatzalah people I know are regular Heimish family people many with married kids. Maybe you mean shomrim.
myfriend:
That or just very odd or strange.
We need sentence context.
Derech HaMelech:
What do braids, and Kabbalah, the akaida and tefillin shel yad have to do with each other?
msseeker:
For the most part chasidish women dress very tzniusdik but there’s just no way regular Lakewood yeshivish ppl will dress that way.
Yatzmich
So true especially with the climbing out of suvs you can see everything. There’s no reason why women are allowing men who aren’t their husbands to see covered parts of their body.
msseeker:
It may be a true pshat ervas deebur…However they are certainly taking the pasuk out of the pashtus.
I dont know if you are a guy or girl, however Iam a guy so I cant fully understand the yetzer horah a girl has to dress untzniusdig, however I will venture to say its likely as strong as a mans yetzer to look. If that is the case, its a very strong tayvah and therefore requires strong measures and really working on yourself not to fall in this area.
People need to take personal responsibility for what they do.
blinky:
Haha good story! I bet that would work every time!
p.s. the word is sequestered.
Mod 80
Hey Im no expert but I learned that most mazikim are from Aveiros.
oomis1105:
My point was that a persons obligation to say thank you is because they have to be a mentsch. However you have no right to demand or expect a thank you because in reality you didnt do anything and its actually inappropriate to take the credit for something that Hashem gave you and enabled you to do.
philosopher:
My point is that if you decide to do someone a chesed dont expect to get something back. If you cant give without expecting something back that may be something that you personally need to work on. The reason why people who work with OTD are successful is because they do it for the kid. Not their own ego to feel good. If you are focused on the other person you dont care that you dont get the thank you and if they dont appreciate.
How many people do ANYTHING for their kids even though 99% of kids do not appreciate what is done for them?
Thats the idea. You give becaus eyou love the person and want to help them regardless of how much appreciation you will get.
Obviously if you are not up to the task dont get involved. Nobody says you have to be involved with OTD kids if you dont have what it takes.
Philosopher please read my last post.
tzipi:
Theres nothing wrong with mourning hester ponim. In fact that is correct. All I meant is that wanting Moshiach because “my life sucks” is not the right Hashkofa. We shouldnt want Moshiach because it will improve our economic situation…
What we mourn is the fact that we and the shechina are in golus and the fact that we cant be together and have the closeness with Hashem that we formerly had when there was a Bais Hamikdash.
The way to really show you want Moshiach is to live your life as though Moshiach were already here.
blinky: maskim
Chovos Halevovos Shaar Hebitachon. Over there he says that if you do something for someone, one should not expect a thank you because you didnt do anything for them. Hashem is the one who did it. Meaning, if you do me a favor, it is because Hashem said that I need a favor done to me and you will be the shaliach. Mitzad mentshlichkiet I should and am obligated to thank you, but in truth who I must really thank is Hashem. Does anyone remember learning about Avraham Avinu? He used to invite people and give them food and drink…Hachnasos Orchim. Afterwards the people were apprciative and wanted to thank him. Wat did Avraham say? Dont thank me thank Hashem. Now we are inclined to think wow Avraham is such a tzaddik he doesnt want to take credit…The reality is, we have no right to take credit for doing something for someone. Avraham Avinu is telling us that the thank you, ALL THANK YOUS belong to Hashem.
So if you do someone a favor and they dont thank you, they arent a mentsch but you have no right to be upset and insulted and furthermore, you must continue to do favors for people even if they dont thank you and even if they dont appreciate you!
Im sorry if this sounds radical but you can find this concept in the beginning of shhar habitachon in the chovos halevovos.
EDITED
It is said in Zohar and other sifrei Kabalah that our Aveiros create Shin Daleds and these are called mazikim. These mazikim are our own mazikim and they are the ones that cause us problems. Peopl ethink “Hashem did x to me” no, your own mazikim that you created did it to you!
This is a deep concept and an important one to know and understand. We punish ourselves with the averos we do.
Popa yes please look that up something sounds off about that. I learned in Kitzur that it should be undone.
This thread could go on forever but the bottom line is Tznius has to start at home. Your schools and Rebbetzins dont buy your clothing. Its the mothers who shop for the girls and women who shop for themselves. The mothers have to make it clear that untzniusdig clothing is not allowed in this house. Be firm about it and make it clear that theres no room for compromise. If a parent pays for clothing for their daughter that isnt tznius then they are accessories to the averah. A teenage girl usually cant afford her own clothing so the parents have to say “you dont buy tznius clothing I dont pay for your clothing” it may sound harsh but hey it will work.
Another point is a husband has to set up a Torahdig house where the wife wouldnt consider bringing home such clothing for herself. It has to be something discussed and clarified that it wont go on in your family. You cant say “oh its just one outfit she probably didnt realize…” it will become her whole wardrobe very quickly.
I agree with what some other people mentioned regarding learning/reading books on tznius. Considering how big of a nesayon it is for girls and as I guy I will really never know, all I can say is that the nesayon requires constant work which means constantly learning and relearning the Halachos and all the inyanim of tznius. I know that if I find myself having a hard time in any area I focus on it and spend extra time learning those halachos and hashkafos. Same should be any man or women who finds themselves having a hard time combating their yetzer hora.
Lipa is a good person and provides great entertainment but lets not equate him with Gedolim and Chashuveh Rabbanim who were Mkarev thousands to Yiddishkiet.
Lomed Mkol Adam:
Maybe the reason why its hard to get rich people to give for such an organization is because in general, the rich people have an easier time marrying off their kids so they are less sympathetic?
There are plenty worthy organizations that arent well funded. Its usually the big names that get all the money and the lesser known organizations that have a very hard time raising funds. Maybe because you are only involved with this organization it seems that it is only your organization that cant seem to get funds. In truth there are plenty yeshivos and other organizations struggling.
Its important to have good fundraisers.
emoticon613: Interesting story. Definitely cool. I have another recommendation. Rabbi Zev Leff has a sefer about tefillah. He goes really in depth explaining what each tefillah is about. Maybe thats what you are missing. Sometimes the simple translation is not enough. Another suggestion is to get Praying with Fire. Its amazing. It has a daily piece of inspiration (a story about a Gadol or something from the Gemara…) about a different aspect of Tefillah. What I found for me was that when I spend x amount of time daily working on Tefillah my Tefillah is much better than when I am not actively working on it. Maybe thats part of the secret that will help you. Meaning, get a sefer on Tefillah and learn from it daily. That focus will give you extra awareness and an extra chashivus for tefillah and maybe reawaken your inner tefillah spark.
Be Happy, Emoticon613:
Artscroll sells an interlinear translated siddur. I use it for davening daily and its incredible. I cant always look at the translation of every word because that take s a long time and the minayan I daven with davens too fast for that but over time you learn the meaning and start to remember but most importantly if you are at home without having to keep up pace with a minyan you can use such a siddur and it will add a lot to your davening.
To really get a feeling for davening think and imagine that you are standing before Hashem. Imagine that He is right in front of you and telling you speak to me my beloved child.
Philosopher:
You wrote to aries “However I don’t agree with your hashkafas regading how you relate to OTD’s and I think you are very trusting and a bit naive.
Make sure you don’t get burned. “
Whats that supposed to mean? Im pretty sure he has vast experience with these kids and knows what they are about and what to expect. I am also sure that there were kids that disappointed him. However if someone is doing it Lshem Shomayim he is happy with every child he helps and its not about keeping score or about us at all. Its about the kids. Even if you arent successful you still get schar for trying.
Im not sure what getting burned means in this context. If anything, it seems like he is being quite successful and he knows exactly how to deal with them. On the other hand you very likely have zero experience with these kids and technically have no right to argue because you cant discuss what you have no clue about. The only way to have a clue is to have shaychis with the kids, or with those who deal with such kids and hear what they have to say.
semisthebest: Oh come on. Are you seriously trying to tell us that girls of shidduch age arent dressing for the guys? I want a second opinion!
missme:
You are right. Many people dont have the guts to stand up for whats right. If we are in a store and notice an issue like the music we have an obligation to say something to the store owners. I was personally in a Jewish owned mens clothing store and I noticed inappropriate words and pictures scrawled on the walls of the dressing room. I went to the owner and reported it and asked him to do something about it. I felt uncomfortable but I knew it had to be done. It absolutely shocked me that I was the FIRST person to mention this. As much as many people care there are many who dont care, or just dont care enough to do something about the situation. If you dont care enough to do something then you dont really care.
Sgroth:
I have the new(ish) apple ipod 160gb. I can put tons of shiurim on it and it has a browsing feature for videos and mps.
WolfishMusings:
Stop being ridiculous. A lingerie shop is not a problem. The issue with non Tznius outer clothing is that women are being nichshol men with how they dress. Besides why would a frum married woman want to attract the eyes of other married men? I will be dan lekaf zchus that that is not their intention because if it is then we have very huge problems on our hands.
philosopher:
I never said one should respect the actions. Respect the person. Thats all I said. Respect the kid but still make it clear what he or she is doing is wrong and they have to stop as soon as possible.
Obviously one should have more respect for someone who has accomplished something. Well if these kids are OTD and then you see that the kid is working on themselves and changing they deserve respect for that.
chesedname:
I have heard of a heter to listen to Kol Isha (Jewish) if you dont know who she is and never saw her. Its a flimsy heter but I heard there is really such a heter. I dont have sources for it.
chesedname:
It is rare to hear non Jewish music and kol isha in a Jewish store. Is the store owned by a more modern orthodox type Jew?
tzippi:
You said: There are plenty of people who are struggling, who live every day with the frustrating recognition that we are living in a time of hester panim, and who would gladly welcome Moshiach and a world as outlined in the second part of Aleinu.
Thats the wrong Hashkofa. Wanting Moshiach because your life is miserable is not what Hashem wants from us. We should only want Moshiach based on the second part of Aleinu “despite” what our personal lives are like.
Wolf:
A person who keeps Hilchos Tznius keeps it no matter where she is and it doesnt change. There arent different rules for whats Tznius at work, shabbos, the mountains, vacation…
Philosopher,
Might I suggest that someone who did not receive enough respect growing up may need an extra dose of respect to balance them out until they find their way back? When a person isnt respected, they tend to not respect themselves which leads to all kinds of problems. The way to help and heal such a person is to show them lots of respect. There are many stories of Rabbeim who had students who werent doing to well and every time the kid asked a question in the learning the Rebbi acted as though it was a great question. He gave the kid extra respect and kavod and eventually the kid went on to excel in his learning.
There are many people that want Moshiach and many people who do not. It is a big challenge to honestly want Moshiach in this generation. Before you judge others make sure you really want Moshiach yourself because you may not want it either. If you do want Moshiach then keep doing the right things that will hasten his arrival. Posting what you did above is pointless and wont help anybody.
Enterprise is pretty cheap especially if you have a corporate account. There may be some local Heimish rentals that have good deals ask around.
Wolf:
Context, my friend, context. Clothing that can be categorized as “shmutz” in one context is perfectly legitimate in another.
Correct. When you are catering to non Jewish people that is ok I guess but when selling to “frum” heimish/yeshivish Brooklynites you have a problem.
Thank you for the info!