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EJ, public schools are funded around $18-19,000 per child. Is $15,000 too much? Sure public schools have lots of extracurricular activities but Yeshivas have a dual curriculum.
I’m not sure you can make a valid comparison here. Public schools (at least in NYC — and I’d be surprised to find it’s different anywhere else in the US) are required to teach children who are severly handicapped — both physically and mentally. Costs for those children are MUCH higher than the cost for a standard child. If we exclude them from the equation, I’m sure the cost to educate a “fully abled” public school kid is less than the figure you quoted.
The Wolf
WolfishMusings – The cheesecake on Shevuos is not going to give anyone a heart attack.
And, once again, I ask how you know that.
Granted, one cheesecake isn’t going to kill anyone (unless they choke on it), but it can certainly be part of a larger pattern of eating foods that aren’t good for you — which can kill.
The Wolf
are you gonna go buy non kosher meat becouse the kosher meat is to expensive?
Faulty analogy. Non-kosher meat is outright forbidden. Cholov Stam is not. Non-kosher is a min HaTorah, Cholov Stam is not.
The Wolf
koma, no one has ever gotten a heart attack C”V from eating cheesecake/pie on Shavuous;
How do you know that?
And how do you know it was never a contributing factor in a later heart attack?
The Wolf
And weren’t b’nai yisroel eating the mon at the time?
I don’t see any reason to say (especially when they had livestock available) that they ate manna exclusively.
and were unable to use their dishes that day (Shabbat) until they were rendered Kosher by the proper process of “kashering” utensils.
They should have used plastic. 🙂
Oh, right, I forgot… if they’d done that, no one would have had a shidduch and that would have been the last generation of K’lal Yisroel. 🙂
The Wolf
Rabbi Reiets,
In what way is “Mother’s Day” a foreign idea that “contradicts what we stand for?” Please elaborate.
The Wolf
please find me one Godol who is verifiably on the record in support of “Mother’s Day”.
And find me one Godol who is verifiably on the record in support of posting in the coffeeroom. Or using a camera. Or writing fiction. Or painting.
IOW, the lack of a gadol being “verifiably on the record” for something doesn’t mean that that something is a bad idea.
The Wolf
I’m not conducting any sociological studies and don’t really care to analyze why the lack of parental respect exists in society. Nor is that my point.
Yes it is. *You* are the one who asserted that Mother’s Day is an excuse to “kick your mother to the curb” on the other days of the year.
The Wolf
I find it very interesting that Volvie, who probably, at most, knows no more than fifty non-Jews personally, is capable of making the blanket statement that non-Jews, as a rule, disrespect their mothers 364 days a year.
This, especially, since the two primary examples of Kibbud Av that we are given are from non-Jews: Eisav* and Dama ben Nesinah.
The Wolf
(* Yes, I know Eisav’s actual status is a bit murkier than that — but for all practical purposes, he lived his life as a non-Jew)
Kibud Av V’Eim is a discarded joke by the nochrim.
How on earth do you know that?? That’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard on these boards yet.
Obviously there are those people who are jerks and disrespect their parents, but to make an idiotic statement like that is ridiculous… as if “nochrim” were some monolithic group that has one attitude about parents.
The Wolf
Wolf – When (most) people remember Mother’s Day, they consciously or subconsciously think — ah, here is the one day a year I gotta respect ‘ole Mom.
So what? That’s doesn’t mean that they actually ignore their mother’s the other 364, no more than you ignore teshuva the other days of the year.
The Wolf
February 2nd is Candlemas
Interesting. I did not know that. Ignorance fought. Thank you.
The Wolf
So what’s wrong with flying the swastika from your rooftop? Is there anything wrong with the “idea” or “merit” of flying a swastika if it doesn’t stand or fall over the characters of those who proposed it as the Nazi flag? (And it has a history preceding the Nazi’s.)
C’mon… don’t tell me you’re actually comparing observing Mother’s Day to flying a swastika?!
In any event, the difference is this: when people see a Swastika, the first thing they think of (99.99999% of the time) is “Nazis.” When people observe Mother’s Day, they aren’t thinking of the KKK.
The Wolf
To have just one, is to discard the rest.
Says who?
I fail to see why you can’t respect your parents every day AND have a special day set aside for it.
The Wolf
Once we’re nitpicking, you guys do realize that aside from the purpose of Groundhog Day (determining the weather based on whether an animal sees its shadow) would seem to be a clear issur d’oraysah,
Only if you take it seriously. Do you know anyone who does?
it also happens to mark an obscure, but nontheless real, religious holiday.
Cite, please.
The Wolf
Yom Kippur is assigned by the Torah. Kibud Av V’Eim is mandated by the Torah. “Mother’s Day” is assigned by some drunks in Congress, before heading to the bar or their next KKK meeting.
Again, whether a congressman is drunk or a KKK member doesn’t matter one way or the other. The idea stands (or falls) on its own merit, not the character of the person who proposed it.
The Wolf
Who limits teshuva to Yom Kippur? If you do, that it most unfortunate.
And who truly limits their Kibbud Aim to Mother’s Day?
The Wolf
Change my comment from Mardi Gras day to Groundhog Day. (That isn’t pagan or religious, is it?)
It is to the Church of the Eternal Groundhog. 🙂
The Wolf
Mardi Gras
You are aware, I suppose, that Mardi Gras (unlike Mother’s Day) is a religious holiday. It’s the day before Ash Wednesday, which is the start of Lent.
The Wolf
Off-topic:
Is it just me, or did half of this thread (as well as some others) suddenly disappear?
The Wolf
it probably wont take long until he goes off the derech completely
Oh, please.
I agree that a 13-year-old having unfiltered access to the internet is a bad thing. And I agree that an Ipad is probably inappropriate as a Bar Mitzvah present in general. But let’s not make things worse than they are. Exaggeration and hyperbole do not help anyone here.
The Wolf
Just let’s remember that Groundhog day and Mother’s day has nothing to do with Judaism, the Torah, or our people.
Neither does photography, but I’ve yet to find any posek who says it’s forbidden.
The Wolf
A good idea, although a separate part of the site (like the Nichum Aveilim section) would be better suited for this purpose than a thread on the messageboard.
The Wolf
Most of us. (At least those of us in-town. You seem to be implying most out-of-towners don’t have Kibud Av V’Eim daily
Alas, I’ll admit that, in this respect, you’re a better person than me.
It is highly impractical for me to visit my father daily. So, I call him once a week. When we do speak, we spend about three minutes on the phone — but that’s simply because he’s not a talk-on-the-phone type of person. Never was – probably never will be. If I called him daily, he’d probably go mad and would not appreciate it (and would probably wonder what is wrong).
My mother, on the hand, is a different story. While she lives much closer to me than my father and it’s fairly easy to “pop over,” my schedule really precludes me from doing so on a daily basis (most days I get home fairly late). I do, however, call her somewhat often and visit her at least once a week, if not more often.
The Wolf
B”H. I am pleased to learn that you are chazering (reviewing) my insights.
Oh, it’s not just you. I usually go back and review things I write after the “heat of the moment” is gone.
BTW, I’m still waiting for your explanation of the oven of Achnai if you think Chazal can never “disagree” with HKBH on halachic matters.
The Wolf
Would I be considered an apikores if I said I didn’t like cheesechake (on Shavuous or any other day of the year)?
Wolf – Yes.
Oh well. That’s another rung lower in hell for me. 🙂
The Wolf
I’d still stick around. If you read my writings, you’d know that I was never all that hung up on the anonymity. And besides, the opinions I express here are no different than the ones I would express in real life.
The Wolf
It took you 7 hours and your making 5 previous posts since the comment in question to realize that!? Who was your English teacher again? (No malice intended… 🙂
Alas, when I first read your post, I skimmed over it, but I got the meaning. The error caught my eye when I was reviewing it several hours later.
The Wolf
IOW, you are posturing
Minor nitpick (with no malice whatsoever): The word you’re looking for is “positing.” 🙂
The Wolf
Would I be considered an apikores if I said I didn’t like cheesechake (on Shavuous or any other day of the year)?
The Wolf
why do people still eat chalav stam if everything has its version or imitation in chalav yisroel. It is much better to eat cholov yisroel ONLY. Why do people still feel a need to eat cholov stam
And there’s your first logical error.
The Wolf
To reiterate, this is a cousin’s Bar Mitzva present
(My brother is his father)
Silly nitpick: Doesn’t that make him your nephew, not a cousin?
The Wolf
without the four digit passcode we ‘lock’ the settings
Hmmm. 10,000 possibilities.
Devote 10 minutes per day doing, say, one every twenty seconds. Do that six days a week. The kid will have the code for certain in a year (and, in all likelihood, about half that time).
The Wolf
I’m trying to compile a list for the boys parents
I thought this was your kid.
If this is someone else’s kid, I *strongly* urge you check with the kid’s parents before buying it for him.
The Wolf
Chazal have only and 100% consistently decided halacha as per HKBH.
Only inasmuch as HKBH Himself is maskim to the point of “Lo BaShamayim Hi.”
Otherwise, how do you explain the oven of Achnai?
The Wolf
Lo bashamayim hi – once the Torah was revealed, there will be no further revelation? What are you getting at? You are saying, in so many words, Chazal can be wrong in halacha. This is patently incorrect.
In other words, HKBH could determine the halacha one way, but if Chazal decide otherwise, then we follow them. The famous case is the oven of Achnai.
Where have I ever said individual members of Chazal aren’t infallible?
Again, open up a Gemara. The fact that the Gemara says about any Amora’s position “Tiyuvta d’…” proves that that person was not infallible.
The Wolf
Been hearing that way too long for it to be taken credibly.
It’s a bit like all those predicting the demise of Chareidikeit or Orthodoxy for the past 60 years.
Maybe, maybe not.
But it is, undoubtedly, much harder at this point, for parents to afford tuition. And with that increased difficulty, more and more parents will simply opt out. I personally know of parents who have opted out because it was just too much financially to bear.
Perhaps you’re right that the system won’t crumble. But more and more people will drop out of the system… and that’s also bad.
The Wolf
Just out of curiosity…
how can you accept the notion that individually members of Chazal are fallible, but collectively there are not. Logic dictates that that should not be possible since an error by any one of the group means that, by default, the group as a whole is not infallible.
The Wolf
IOW, you are posturing that they are or may be wrong in matters, but we nevertheless accept their wrongheadedness as law of the land. Am I more or less characterizing your position correctly?
Isn’t that the basic concept of “Lo BaShamayim Hi?”
The Wolf
Actually, Volvie, upon giving the matter some more thought, I think I can answer your question.
Can Chazal be wrong on matters of halacha? I think the question is meaningless simply because we have ruled, post facto, that the matters are as they say they are. Therefore, by definition, they aren’t “wrong.”
Example: We follow their opinion regarding tereifos, even though animals that they would have labeled tereifos can, in fact, live more than 12 months. Nonetheless, no one is (or should be) rushing to change the halachos of tereifos.
So, are Chazal infallible in halachic matters? No — we’ve simply decided to take their say-so on the matter.
The Wolf
To be honest, I don’t know.
I hear what you’re saying, but I still have a *very* hard time ascribing infallibility to anyone other than HKBH.
If that makes me a heretic, so be it.
The Wolf
Ah, okay, so we weren’t talking the same thing.
You’re talking collectively. I was talking individually.
The Wolf
Don’t have one off the top of my head… but you’ve *never* come across a Gemara where one Tanna or Amora admitted that another one had defeated him in argument and was correct??! Or come across a Gemara that said about a certain Amora’s position “Tiyuvta…?”
The Wolf
Wolf, Are you denying Chazal’s infallibility in halachic matters?
Absolutely. All you have to do is open up a Gemara to see that there are places where they admit they were wrong or defeated in argument.
Again — I only ascribe infallibility in *any matter* to only one Being — and, once again, it’s not Chazal.
The Wolf
I don’t believe they excluded other forms of genesis as well. This is how I recall it.
Then why can you kill them on Shabbos? The point was that they don’t reproduce normally, so killing them is permitted.
If some reproduce normally and some don’t, then I would think you have a safek (did this particular louse come from an egg?) and you would have to apply the rule of safek d’oraissa l’chumra.
I also am not so sure “lice” is the correct translation of the organism that is being referred to.
I have never heard of “kinnim” being referred to as anything other than a louse.
The Wolf
We are talking about Chazal. So focus your comments/response regarding infallibility on Chazal.
Sorry… but I ascribe infallibility to one Being only… and it’s not Chazal.
(yeah, I know, that makes me a heretic…)
The Wolf
and that is a greater gift than flowers that die at teh end of the week
Why does it have to be either/or? Why can’t I honor my mother during the year AND bring her flowers on Mother’s Day?
The Wolf