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she would not like to drive for tznius purposes.
Perhaps someone can explain this to me. Assuming, of course, you’re not driving some unusual, expensive or otherwise outlandish car, in what way is a woman not driving related to tznius? I just don’t get it.
The Wolf
Big One,
No, I think you missed the point. You’re talking about halacha, and we’re discussing the metzius.
You can make the argument that women shouldn’t learn gemara because that’s the way we’ve done it until now (much like the reason for the second day of Yom Tov). But that doesn’t mean that the TT’s statement about women “not having intellectual stability” is factually correct today.
The Wolf
has anyone else discussed this with their Rabbi besides for me? Just curious. I have an actual psak, but some of you are going by “feelings.”
I haven’t directly discussed it with my rav, but he brought the matter up in shul at a seudah sh’lishis. Bottom line* — since this is the cultural norm in today’s society and completely not derech chibah, it’s not a problem.
The Wolf
* Don’t like it? Then discuss with your own rav. YMMV.
What is Your Hashkafic Affiliation?
A little bit of this, a little bit of that.
I once wrote about we take some things from different derachim of Judaism. I called it “Wolfish Judaism.”
The Wolf
Come on everyone, don’t be shy! It’s not as if we’re going to say, “That’s funny, you LOOK a bit older…!”
That’s funny, you LOOK a bit older…
The Wolf
Joseph,
Please don’t tell me that you’re equating the words of the Tur and the Torah Temimah with the words of God. As great as they were, you can’t honestly tell me that every word of the Tur is the equivalent of words in the Chumash. I don’t think you believe that!
Your story (giving, for the sake of argument that it’s 100% true) only proves that miracles can happen through tzaddikim. It does nothing to prove that their words are free of cultural influences of the times and places in which they lived.
Furthermore, I don’t see how this should be a problem. The Tur and the Torah Temimah weren’t born gedolim. They grew up — just as you and I did. Their lives were influenced by things that happened to them personally, by their culture and the times in which they lived. To argue that they grew up in a cultural vacuum is ridiculous. And to argue that their thought processes, their decisions, the way they lived their lives and their Torah wasn’t affected by their environment is also ridiculous.
Look at it this way — if the Tur grew up in today’s world, would he have been the same person? Let’s grant, for the sake of argument, that he would have had the same level of intelligence, the same personal piety and the same desire to learn. Do you really think that the Tur of this modern-day sage would be the same as the Tur we have now?
The Wolf
jent,
lower case letters. learn to use them. please 🙂
the wolf
Nobody,
I’m not saying anything “against” the gedolim, personal or otherwise. However, I believe that statements are not made in a vacuum. Whenever *anyone* makes a statement (from the highest gadol down through the lowliest person and even down to me) they are influence by their community, the times in which they live and the culture that they live in.
The Wolf
just a little question- why does it bother you? Whats the difference whether it’s in caps or not?
Because it’s difficult to read and is the equivalent of shouting. It’s also not proper netiquette. In addition, the point you’re trying to make isn’t any more valid because you type it in ALL CAPS.
The Wolf
OK, for the sake of simplifying the argument, let’s strike “personal biases” from my question. How about answering it now…
Just out of curiousity, is it at all possible that the statements made by the Torah Temimah, the Tur (or any other gadol for that matter) could be influenced by their environment, their community, their location and their own upbringing?
The Wolf
Wolf,
Absolutely not. With all due respect, it takes a great deal of ignorance to ask such a question.
Joseph,
Please tell me that you’re kidding and that I am dense and missing the sarcasm.
The Wolf
oomis, The quoted meforshim are 100% Toras Emes. As true today, as the day it was written.
Bogen,
Just out of curiousity, is it at all possible that the statements made by the Torah Temimah, the Tur (or any other gadol for that matter) could be influenced by their environment, their community, their location and their own upbringing and personal biases?
The Wolf
Thank you SJS.
The Wolf
Of course, you have to keep in mind that my count in years is in wolf years. To get my real age, you have to divide by 7, multiply by the hypotenuse of the right triangle, adjust for the cosine of the tangent to the arc of the circle and divide by the speed of light raised to the power of pi. Oh yes, and then take that answer, feed it to the octopus at the zoo, wait for him to spit out some ink and see the shape of the number formed in the ink.
The Wolf
Wow, WOLF!!! You come across a bit younger. I always thought youre more in your 70s.
Yep. I always give off that youthful appearance. 🙂
The Wolf
Wolf – What if you pass a Yid late stuck in Hicksville or highway (no mans land) and your cell is out?
For starters, I rarely leave the city, so it’s not too much of an issue for me.
In any event, if something like that were to occur, I would offer to physically go and get help. I still would not take a stranger in my car. Feel free to disparage me for it if you like.
The Wolf
As of my next birthday (Feb 30), I will be 98.
The Wolf
I get asked by chasidish men a lot to drive them places, you dont think thats untzniusdik with me being a 19 year old girl?
Forget tznius for the moment, unless you know these men, it’s downright unsafe.
The rule in my car is that I don’t pick up hitchhikers, under any circumstances, no matter how “frum” they look. If someone is broken down on the road, I’ll offer to call for help, or possibly help out in some other way, but I will not allow strangers in my car. It’s a simple matter of safety.
The Wolf
Jent,
Please… stop shouting (typing in all CAPS). It hurts to read and it doesn’t make your point any stronger.
The Wolf
Harav Hagoan Reb Shmuel Wosner, One of the the Poskei Hador, writes in a Kol Korei:
A Woman who drives is considered “OIVER AL DAS YEHUDIS”
I’ve love to know the context of this statement, as well as its parameters. Anyone have any further info?
The Wolf
SJSinNYC, it’s worth putting a little strain on the country for torah.
mw,
It’s very nice of you to be generous with everyone else’s money. Especially the money of non-Jews who have absolutely no obligation to support Torah learning.
The Wolf
Wolf, I posted a reply on YOUR entry regarding the ywn cf creation debate.
Joseph,
I’m sorry, but I can’t seem to find the post you’re talking about. Please email me and I’ll respond.
The Wolf
You can do a Google search on my name to find out why. 🙂
The Wolf
“not required to allow one’s parent to make his/her life a living hell.”
Yeah but imagine what your next life will look like? Oh man…
noitallmr, I’m confused. Are you saying that one *is required* to allow to his parents to make his life a living hell if they choose to do so?
The Wolf
Of course there is a limit to honoring your parents. One is not required to allow one’s parent to make his/her life a living hell. However, you must be careful how you go about it — you certainly shouldn’t demean, denigrate or humiliate your parent in public or private.
The Wolf
“Can someone please quote a phrase in the torah where it says to sit and learn all day and mooch off people? “
There may not be a pasuk, but I think that it is in our own self-interest to have people learning day and night. We need people who are going to become talmidei chachomim. We need people who are going to be experts in halacha to answer shailos. We will need people who can give us a Torah perspective on events in the world. As such, I think it is in our own self-interest to have people learning all day and preparing to fill these roles.
However, I also believe that the current kollel paradigm is not sustainable. Nor do I think that it is good for the community or the individuals involved. I believe that kollels should have strict entrance requirements, so that only a certain percentage will remain. They should (like any advanced student) be required to prove their competency from time to time and maintain a sufficient level of scholarship (must like you must maintain a good GPA to remain in a graduate program).
Everyone else should go to work and support those who are learning, as they, too, have an interest in the next generation of leaders of k’lal yisroel. As they also have a requirement to learn, I think the yeshivas should have an open enrollment policy for night/weekend sedarim, allowing anyone who want to learn to come in and learn during those periods.
The Wolf
That is a very long schoolday – are you exaggerating or is that the way it is now?
Not an exaggeration. Nor is it new.
When I was in high school back in the 80s, We started with Shacharis at 7:30. The day ended at 6:20. Then, there was night seder from 7:00 until Ma’ariv at 9:00. Night seder started out with two nights a week in 9th grade and progressed up to five nights a week in 12th.
The Wolf
Check out the list of tags under the reply box.
The Wolf
iluvchulent,
There’s no reason to post the exact same thing in two different threads. I responded to your point in the other one.
The Wolf
From a strictly halachic standpoint, it is Muttar to copy Cd’s. It is YOUR property, and Halacha doesn’t recognize an idea or intelectual concept as something which can be copyrighted, and thus it can’t ever be considered ‘stolen’.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that. Historically, Rabbonim *have* issued “copyrights” to publishers of seforim in the past. For example, if someone put through the effort to have a Shas printed in a town, then no one in that area could print another Shas for a certain number of years. This was done to encourage people to print seforim and put the effort into publishing them. If this was done for a work that we would consider “public domain” (such as the Gemara, the Rambam, etc.), then certainly it would have been done for newly created works.
While the historical precedent doesn’t cover copyright as we know it today, to say that Rabbonim did not recognize the idea of intellectual property is just wrong.
The Wolf
Joseph,
Use em instead of i.
The Wolf
Bored –
She said that she was looking for a co-ed school. Prospect is not co-ed.
The Wolf
Yashrus,
I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “Naval B’r’shus HaTorah.”
The Wolf
I suggest you go to torahanytime.com and download the following speech by Rabbi Zecharia Wallerstein
01/01/08 Parashat Va’era – The Truth About Facebook, Myspace, and New Year’s Eve
I listened to this speech. It was most unconvincing. Rabbi Wallerstein’s main point (in the section of the speech where he discussed Facebook) was that Facebook is bad because someone advertised a “Jewish” New Year’s Eve party. Somehow, because of that, the entire enterprise is a bad idea. Based on that reasoning, telephones are bad too because people can use them to invite them to parties…
The Wolf
Right, Joseph. Nonetheless, I’m sure that any Rav will tell you that if you are faced with the choice of the sefer falling (which is what Jewishfeminist was talking about) or catching it with your bare hands, the better option is to catch it.
The Wolf
My husbands getting bored with my suppers ( so am I!)…
My goodness! How many husbands do you have? 🙂
The Wolf (who usually remembers apostrophes)
You’re welcome.
The Wolf
The tag is “em” and “/em”. Replace the quotes with < and >
The Wolf
That’s it!! I always *knew* the scientific explanation behind parking tickets was the Higgs-Boson particle!
Thw Wolf
What are you looking for in a school, Mommy? What specific educational goals do you have in mind for your daughter?
The Wolf
The world isn’t that old.
False argument — and I’ll explain why.
1. The fact that the universe is *only* 5769 years is not universally held. There are a number of sources that accept an older universe. But that’s really beside the point, because…
2. I’m almost certain that if I were to ask you “suppose the universe was billions of years old. Could you then accept the possibility of evolution?” that your answer would still be no. So, the age of the universe is not really the issue here, is it?
The Wolf
The Big Bang has nothing to do with abiogenesis. The Big Bang is a theory that explains the origin of the universe and the expansion of space/movement of galaxies. It has nothing to do with the origin of life on Earth.
The Wolf
Oy, where to start. Bogen, your post is full of fallacies:
Let’s start at the top:
Evolution is just a theory, not a fact. (And a false theory, at that.)
This assertion shows that you don’t understand how the term “theory” is applied to science. Gravity, for example, is also a “theory.” Please understand what a theory is (in terms of science) before throwing this out.
Past evidence for evolution has been overturned. In the past, major scientific revolutions have overturned theories that were at the time considered factual.
This statement is absolutely correct. But so what? In many other areas of science, theories that were later proven wrong were thrown out, but that doesn’t invalidate the latest findings. For example, originally before germ theory was developed, there were other theories to explain the spread of some diseases. The fact that earlier theories were overturned does not invalidate germ theory. Likewise, the fact that earlier evolutionary theories were overturned does not mean that the latest ones are invalid.
In the past there have been scientific hoaxes regarding evolution, such as the Piltdown Man forgery.
Again, this statement is absolutely correct. And again, so what? There has been fraud in just about every scientific field at one time or another. That does not necessarily mean that all scientific theories are false.
Pieces of “evidence” for evolution such as Ernst Haeckel’s 19th-century embryo drawings, were not merely “scientific errors” but frauds; Biology textbooks have continued to reproduce such “evidence” long after it had been debunked.
That’s correct, but no respectable biology book does so today. Again, the same point I made earlier applies.
Evolution is a pseudo-religion (evolution is based on faith, supporters of evolution revere Charles Darwin as a prophet, and supporters of evolution dogmatically reject alternative suggestions out-of-hand.)
This is a baseless claim. No one revers Darwin as a “prophet.” In addition, the very idea of scientific theory is that no idea can be rejected “out of hand.”
Evolution is “unfalsifiable” (there is no tests that could be made that would demonstrate that the statement is false). Any “fact” can be “fitted” into the evolutionary framework. Past events of speciation are not observable and repeatable, and therefore evolution is not falsifiable. In 1976, Popper himself said that “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory but a metaphysical research programme”.
This is just plain false. You can do a simple Google search and find examples where evolution is claimed to have been observed and experimented with. I’m not familiar with the Popper quote you brought, but I’m confident that the vast majority of the scientific community does not agree with it.
Mind you, I haven’t brought one scintilla of evidence that evolution is true. That’s not my goal here. My goal is simply to cut down false arguments.
The Wolf
Evolution, by its very definition, explicitly denies the existence of G-d.
No it doesn’t. Why can’t one maintain that evolution was guided by God? (NB: This has nothing to do with Torah sources. Joseph maintained that if Evolution is true, then God must not exist. That is not necessarily so, from a strictly logical POV.)
one of the obvious flaws of evolution is that it offers no explanation for how life began
That’s the field of abiogenesis, not evolution. Evolution deals with speciation, not the origin of life. The fact that evolution does not address the origin of life no more causes it’s invalidation than the fact that the Theory of Gravity doesn’t explain the origin of life.
The Wolf
G123, doing teshuva is a concept that applies all the time, not just when Moshiach might arrive.
I remember someone sent me an email saying that Moshiach was going to come become some gadol said that Moshiach will arrive in a Shmitta year with a solar eclipse, and since last August 1 there was an eclipse in a shmitta year, it was a sign.
I didn’t have the heart to reply back that there are a minimum of two solar eclipses *every* year.
The Wolf
So, S, you would say that films are OK, as long as they don’t have any women in them? In other words, you’d let your husband watch 12 Angry Men and about nothing else?
The Wolf
It doesn’t matter what the exchange rate was. Clearly, he chose an Esrog that was far beyond what he needed to perform the mitzvah. Heck, it was far beyond what would even be considered a “nice Esrog.” He would have been much better off putting the rest of the money aside to be able to continue learning in Kollel until the regular payments started up again.
And I think it’s trying to tell us that you can never go wrong with spending extravagant amounts to beautify Hashem’s Mitzvos. Wouldn’t you agree?
Absolutely not. One has to learn to live within his means, even if it means he won’t get the nicest Esrog, the most beautiful menorah or the most beautiful k’sav in his tefillin. And, I doubt you’ll find too many rabannim who, given the situation in the film, would agree with what he did.
The Wolf
Mariner,
The fixed calendar vs. nonfixed calendar doesn’t matter. The only difference between a fixed calendar vs. a nonfixed calendar vis a vis Birchas HaChamah is on what date it will be recited, not if it will be recited. Since it’s recited every 28 years, you can go back and do the math to discover that it wasn’t said in either of those years.
The Wolf
Thanks for the correction, Mamashtakah. It’s been a while since I saw the film. Nonetheless, even $380 is too much to pay for an Esrog in the financial state that they were in. He could have bought a very nice Esrog for a lot less, been mekayim the mitzvah just as much, and still provided for his family.
The Wolf
<i>Pashuteh Yid, its not so simple. Would you exclude a handicapped person who cannot serve from running for president?</i>
I would be highly surprised to find that the military cannot make accomodations for people with handicaps. Certainly they may can’t fight on the front line, but there are plenty of other support roles that they *can* fulfill.
That being said, I disagree with Pashuteh’s point. While I think that serving in the military is a plus when choosing a presidential candidate, I don’t think it should be a bona fide requirement.
The Wolf