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Yaakov Yosef is writing ‘to the point’.
Still waiting for Menachem ….
NARROWMINDED HAKATAN IS INVITED TO READ AND TAKE TO HEART THIS FOLLOWING POST. [from smerel]
——
The Brisker Rav noted that the “State” the Zionists have achieved is the “greatest triumph of the satan since the sin of the golden calf” – [KATAN]
———
This is SHEKER GAMUR and a tremendous disgrace to the Brisker Rav and Torah true Judaism.Firstly whatever your view on Zionism is there is no way anyone can argue that they are worse than Yeruvem ben Nevat who made actual real egels and forced the majorty of Klal Yisroel to worship them. They aren’t worse than Menashe who burnt every single sefer torah in all of Eretz Yisroel (according to most opinions) and turned the Beis Hamakdush itself into a place of idol worship. They aren’t worse than the Yesvekitzia who successfully helped in the shmad of the three million people Jewish community in Russia. (The Yesvekitzia also persecuted Zionists with the same zeal as they persecuted frum people)
Secondly the Brisker Rav was of the opinion that the anti-Zionist belief that attributes the state of Israel and all of its succusses to the Sotton borders of Kefira. It elevates the Sotton to having power of a deity R”L. It is not so different (if at all) from them non-Jewish idolatrous view that all evil in the world exists because of the Satan. The Sotton does not “triumph” R’L . He does what Hashem gives him power to do.
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BESIDES, AM STILL WAITING FOR KATANS ANSWER TO MY -following – POST:
Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …
Any dr will tell you – you treat the patient according to their condition at the time of presentation.
Time to wake up to reality.
Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.
Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
..
.Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….
Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….
Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ??
.
Nu , Menachem ?
.Mordechai is right.
The real hypocrisy are those lefties who suppress democracy for their own benefit , misusing the concept of democracy itself.
,I will answer your question , although you do not answer mine [besides the convenient ones]
Nor do you respond to my arguments [again, besides the ones convenient for you]
.I hear this from a trustworthy and honest habad friend of mine.
Some twenty years ago.
.Bottom line – even according to your version –
1] did the RY suffer redifot as a result of his inaction to support his rebbi ? Yes or No ?
2] Did the RY disagree with your rebbi in a disrespectful manner ? Yes or No ?
3] Is it true that rebbi / talmid disagreements are valid and can be found in gemara rishonim poskim and aharonim all thru jewish history ? Y or N ?
4] Can you – for honesty’s sake – snap out of your “busy/ offended/ not in the mood/blood libel [etc]” state, and finally provide ‘to the point answers’ to my questions ?
.
.Why is menachem only answering selected posts ?
Why is he ignoring certain ones and responding to others ?
Is it only depending on ‘his mood’ at the time ?
Or does it also have to do with the content – and whether or not a palatable response is available ?
Will we merit to receive an honest response on this one ?
Hope so ….
.
.@yaakov yosef
Check again .
R YM Levin carried the title of Sar HaSa’ad [minister of social services] in the first government after the 1949 elections.
This is not hidden or secret information.
.Nu.
Where is katan ?
Opposites attract.
Both, katan and his Zionists, are ignoring the present state of their brothers and sisters , because their blind adherence to their ideology.
Waiting for a TO THE POINT answer ….
.ujm is correct.
false narrative.
.And the more of the openly kofrim that win, the more the truly confused Jews who really don’t know the difference between orthodoxy and their reform copycatters, the more those confused jews will follow those copycatters.
On your head.
.
.Katan and ujm cannot stop their rambling about things WOULD have been .
They should open their eyes to the things AS THEY ARE.
—-Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …
Any dr will tell you – you treat the patient according to their condition at the time of presentation.
Time to wake up to reality.
Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.
Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
..
.Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….
Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….
Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ??
.
..
STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER ?menachem to yb:
Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ?
Y or N ?
—
Completely false. All my years in yeshiva, never heard of such a thing. Ashkavta D’Rebbi is considered one of the most respected seforim on Chabad rabbeim, quoted many hundreds of times in Chabad seforim for history and minhagim. I’ve never heard of any objection to it.=================
All of menachems years in yeshiva ….. .
Were menachems years in yeshiva before , or after the ‘herem story’ ?
We do not know menachems age, so it could be that his yeshiva years were before the RY’s disagreement with his rebbi.
According the habad sources I have consulted , the sefer ashkavte d’Rebbi is now on the same level as Rav Shaul Shimon Deutchs multi volume biography about the late rebbi of the habad.
Meaning they both are classified as ‘non allowable’ reading materiel.
.
.hello ?
@yaakov yosef
FYI.
r yishak meir levin was a full minister in israels first government after the elections of 1949.
.That wasn’t really the point as mentioned .
Just for the record .
His death was a sudden and DIRECT RESULT of the redifot.
The person doing it would probably be classified as a rotseach begrama.
But , again , that was and is not the point here.
.
.You are missing the point.
We are not taking part in a blame game – habad are bad because they murdered the RY.
Thats not the point at all.
The point is that sof kol sof the RY paid with his life for the mere fact that he respectfully proclaimed in front of everyone that in his learned opinion the rebbi of the habad hasidim is fallible and can make a mistake.
Which serves as an example and clear message for anyone else possibly entertaining similar thoughts.
Which explains very well why no one in habad itself , ever since, dared to voice any support to the possibility their leader making a mistake.
As was and still is practised in all other ‘normal’ communities , all around the globe.
Even when the evidence and plain logic overwhelmingly point to the other direction.
.
.
—-
I simply cannot understand why no one engages with the substance of the argument …All they do , is , commenting as if the substance is not there at all, or is something else altogether ….
.
.Katan and ujm cannot stop their rambling about things WOULD have been .
They should open their eyes to the things AS THEY ARE.
—-Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …
Time to wake up to reality, mr katan !
Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.
Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
..
.Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….
Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….
Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ??
.
..
.HaKatan is using realities from one to two hundred years ago to experiment with the lives and well being of countless yiddishe families in the twentyf irst century. .
There is no country in the world who is interested in sovereignty over EY , willing to sacrifice their own youth to keep aliens safe and secure in the face of the most barbaric and violent monsters on the face of this planet.
This is as clear as day, to anyone not blinded from seeing the sun.
Unlike katan and ujm whose extreme and inflexible brainwash are blinding them from seeing what’s obvious and right in front of their own noses.
.
.Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ?
Y or N ?
.First Menachem might be ‘too busy’ to answer.
Or ‘not in the mood’.
Then he seems to be a serial victim, nebach.
He might be ‘offended’.
Or the victim of ‘blood libels’.
He has all the specific answers at the ready – to all the specific questions.
Thats beyond doubt.
That goes without saying.
Just one problem . For some mysterious reason he is not sharing them with us.
That mysterious reason has nothing to do with the ‘palatability’ of his ‘secret’ , but ready and available answers ….
.
.Nu, did your friends [who you are benefitting and end up working for] the Lefties , the Reform and Conservative win ?
.
.@square
It’s not me who doesn’t like it.
Its gdolei yisrael who don’t like it.
They don’t like it.
They don’t like to the writers.
And the copiers.
So the complaints are at the right address.
.Menachem ignored the main thrust of my post.
I clearly wrote there that we should not use this story to throw mud.
—
A repost of my post
We should not use this story to throw mud.
We should however learn from this about the possibility within habad of someone implying that the leader of habad could be mistaken .
This RY implied it and ended up paying with his life.
The RY obviously held the rebbi from habad in high esteem .
Otherwise he would not be his hasid and attend all those public events with his rebbi.
Nevertheless , as a talmid haham who was higi’a lehora’a , in his opinion at least , said politician was not deserving to be put in herem .
He was not disrespectful.
He just held that his rebbi happened to be mistaken in this one instance , which is perfectly acceptable according to Jewish halacha and tradition.
So he abstained from the herem.
.
.
.
.Could you answer the following please –
Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ? Y or N ?
Is it true that rabbi rivkin was niftar after falling from the stairs in his own home as a result of the redifot he suffered because he declined to join your maham shilo in putting this politician in herem ? Y or N ?
After you answer – honestly of course – should we talk about blood libels …..
.
.Btw. — you totally ignored the substance of my post …….
.
.Think its time for square root to stop his propaganda that haredi youth should enlist, going AGAINST the clear directives of gdolei yisrael.
yaakov yosef is correct.
As far as I have heard from sources both from within and outside of habad the story is as follows:
The late rebbi of the habad hasidim was at the time waging a ferocious campaign for the change of Israeli Law .
Advocating for the insertion of the words giyur kahalacha in the text.
Pertaining to the type of conversion recognized by the israeli government , ensuring israeli gov rejection of Reform conversions made in the US.
The rebbi of habad decided to put a certain politician who was a member of the then government , into herem.
As a result of this p’s inaction in following the habad rebbi’s directives to either fix the law or resign.
One of the roshei yeshiva of torah vadaat , besides being an immense talmid haham , was an old hasid , still a mekurav from the rashab’s times.
He was appointed as RY by r shrage faivel Mendlowits in tora vada’at.
He was the author of ashkavte devei rebbi – a historical and scholarly sefer recounting the illness and the histalkut of the rashab and the beginning of the rayats’s leadership of the habad , who had a very privileged position in the rashabs household at the time and therefore a unique view of what was going on.
This RY also authored other sfarim , printing his hidushim on shas.
The rebbi of habad insisted that this talmid haham should join him in pronouncing the herem on this politician .
Apparently the rosh yeshiva did not think that the herem was justifiable al pi torah , so he did not join in this herem.
Whereafter the habad rebbi made some public remarks against the rosh yeshiva, whereafter the redifot against this rosh yashiva started ,
Those redifot had as a direct result that the RY died in his home.
After the RY’s petira, the rebbi of habad publicly disavowed any responsibility for the RY’s demise .
Ad Kan the story.
—
We should not use this story to throw mud.
We should however learn from this about the possibility within habad of someone implying that the leader of habad could be mistaken .
This RY implied it and ended up paying with his life.
The RY obviously held the rebbi from habad in high esteem .
Otherwise he would not be his hasid and attend all those public events with his rebbi.
Nevertheless , as a talmid haham who was higi’a lehora’a , in his opinion at least , said politician was not deserving to be put in herem .
He was not disrespectful.
He just held that his rebbi happened to be mistaken in this one instance , which is perfectly acceptable according to Jewish halacha and tradition.
So he abstained from the herem.
.
.Bottom line – it seems that there is no objective source that the late habad leader was infallible.
We pressed the habadi’s again and again and there is nothing objective and logical forthcoming.
We Never despair and there still might be something logical and objective there.
But until further notice we all should assume that the late habad rebbi’s supposed infallibility is nothing more than a supposition.
A baseless supposition , that is.
Not only baseless but contradictory to Milenia of Jewish thought and practice as recorded in countless cases all over the tora spanning from the gemara to todays poskim.
.
.
.Silly katan cannot stop his rambling about things WOULD have been .
He should open his eyes to the things AS THEY ARE.
Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …
Time to wake up to reality, mr katan !
Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.
Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….
Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….
Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ?
.
.IT IS RAV ASHER WEISS – not asher weiss.
.
Thank you.
.I read the article in YVN about tahanun in ponovezh on yom ha’atsma’ut.
This is incorrect . I heard it my self from an ed re’eya.
Even when the P Rov was alive and prayed in the yeshiva , they did say tahanun.
.
Clear.
.
.I heard the following from old time ponevezh talmidim:
Ponevezher rav attempted to omit tahanun in the early days of the State . And was overruled by the rest of the hanhala who davka said tahanun. Whereafter the continuous practise in ponevezh is to say tahanun.
—R ahron soloveitchik was not in ponovezh , and was a totally different type of person than the typical ponovezhers.
..
.
This is an excellent example where habad nowadays went astray.
Here they are kidnapped by their own indoctrination.
And simply CANNOT escape. They are brainwashed and stopped thinking.
All because of this circular argument method of indoctrination.
.Our rebbi cannot be wrong.
Why ? Because our rebbi said so.
That is irrefutable proof that our rebbi cannot be wrong .
.Welcome to habad logic …..
.
.
Am happy to hear any klal israel wide accepted source that the late habad rebbi was infallible ..
.
.Can you explain how habads approach to their rebbi’s infallibility fits with thousands of years practice of talmidim shehigi’u lehora’a arguing with their rebbeim in halacha , who very obviously say that their rebbi was mistaken – and therefore fallible ?
Will be waiting for an honest answer for this one …
.
.Even if the late habad rebbi’s words were directed to his f in law .
His words have a clear indication to himself too – or not ?
Q to you – did the late and last rebi of habad know that this would be taken as a hora’a relating to himself too ? or did he not realize it will be taken by his audience , as pertaining to himself ?
Honestly – what do you think ?
.I did not know that using someone else’s non response could remake it somehow into a response …
.
.
There are multiple issues raised in my post – totally ignored by menachem .Is it that which you are using ???
.Katan is using realities from one to two hundred years ago to experiment with the lives and well being of countless yiddishe families in the twentyf irst century. .
There is no country in the world who is interested in sovereignty over EY , willing to sacrifice their own youth to keep aliens safe and secure in the face of the most barbaric and violent monsters on the face of this planet.
This is as clear as day, to anyone not blinded from seeing the sun.
Unlike katan and ujm whose extreme and inflexible brainwash are blinding them from seeing what’s obvious and right in front of their own noses.
.
.SR could not have written such a thing.
You have not answered what happened to the thousands of innocent Bosnian boys under UN protection .
You have not said what happened to thousands of innocent Yazidi’s under arab sovereignty.
You have not said why you think that the lot of the Jews in EY would be any better than that of the yazidi’s in Iraq ?
Or of that of the Druze in Syria ?
No matter who is to blame for historical events . This is totally irrelevant here. Ask any yazidi .
There are plenty more than the yazidi’s to ask these questions in the ME. You can start with them.
It is time for you to open your eyes to the realities of life. And what is likely to happen chvsh.
.@yaakov yosef
I loved your post.
.Wrong.
The laws of honoring talmidei chachamim are by… you guessed it – HKBH !
Given to Moshe in Sinai.
No talmid haham made anything up. All laws are exactly lefi hamesorah . Exactly as the RBSH’O told Moshe.
As opposed to the infallibility baloney, which goes frontally against Milenia of Jewish law and practice.
Open any halacha sefer , any gemara . Its clear as day . Talmididim argue with their rebeim in halaha.
If they are higi’a lehora’a. After serious and meticulous research . With respect.
But they do argue. And say that their rebbi was MISTAKEN !!!!
Which is totally missing in habad.
The only person in habad who kept to this mesora, the rosh yeshiva in torah vada’at in brooklyn, was murdered in his own home.
No wonder that no one in habad has the courage to copy him.
Its not their fault , its the fault of the people behind this terror.
Which was instigated milema’ala . Vefdai bazeh .
.
.@Damoshe
Thats untrue.
Ponevezher rav attempted to omit tahanun in the early days of the State . And was overruled by the rest of the hanhala who davka said tahanun. Whereafter the continuous practise in ponevezh is to say tahanun.I cannot believe that satmar rav said to go the UN to be shomer umatsil millions of your sisters and brothers from the barbarities of the two legged monsters walking certain areas of the ME.
Which UN member nation will donate their own boys to be butchered in defense of some Jews in some faraway land ?
Can you name that nation ?
Can you also answer – honestly of course – what that nation will say when ten of their youth will have died ?
When fifty of their youth will have died ?
When five hundred of their youth will have died ?
—Can you [honestly of course] tell me what happened to thousands of innocent civilian Bosnian boys under UN protection in the 1990’s ?
What exactly did the UN do ?
—
Can you [honestly of course] tell me what happened to the innocent Jewish boys under British Mandate Protection, in Hebron and all over the Holy Land , in the 1930’s ?
Thats how much you can rely on the UN ….
—
You yourself would not trust even one hundred dollars of your own private savings to said protection ….And you seriously propose to blindly deposit countless entire families to their sense of rahmanut and yashrut ????
.
.Excellent .
These are stories. Told by …. the last rebbe of the habad hasidim .
About the necessity of believing in your rebbi …. more than moshe rabenu ….. .The necessity of Believing in the infallibility of the last rebbi of habad. Propagated by ….. the last rebbi of habad .
The very one and the same …..
.To summarise :
the belief in habad in the infallibilty of their leader is sourced in , and , propagated by , their very same leader ….. .There is no source for it in hazal . Not in the Nevi’im. Not in the 5 Books of Moses. Not in the tanna’im. Not in the gemara.
Not in the Rishonim . Not in the Poskim.
Not in Tanya.Only in the stories their late leader himself was telling his hasidim ….
On the other hand we , in the Religion of Judaism , have a Milenia old mesorah of talmidim arguing with their rebe’im .
All across the ages .
Which means talmidim saying – as mentioned before – that their rebbi was mistaken ….Which means — no such thing as infallibility.
—This is an excellent example where habad nowadays went astray.
Here they are kidnapped by their own indoctrination.
And simply CANNOT escape. They are brainwashed and stopped thinking.
All because of this catch 22 indoctrination.
.Our rebbi cannot be wrong.
Why ? Because our rebbi said so.
That is irrefutable proof that our rebbi cannot be wrong .
.Welcome to habad logic …..
.Hashem Imcha Gibor Hachayil
Those are the words of Rav Aaron Feldman Shlita Rosh Yeshivat Baltimore to R Dovid Berger re his sefer about habad’s faulty Messianics.
.
.Impossible.
Menachem is ignoring the rhetoric ….
A pretender for Mashiach who happens to die before finishing his job, is that the end of his pretenses to the title , or not ?
Why did official habad change their mind on this topic , according to circumstantial need ?
Those who ignore this so called ‘rhetoric’ , does it stem from bias toward their own movement ?
Do they have valid answers and are just ‘busy’ or ‘offended’ ?
Or is this for lack of anything better, just the most convenient way of dealing with this problem ?
No answer means –
busy
could not be botheredbut chvsh not any lack of good answers ….
That’s impossible …..
.
.Recap
There is no answer from the habad side [yet] re –
the obligation/right of a talmid she’higi’a le’hora’a to argue on his rebbi in halacha.There is no answer from the habad side [yet] re –
the supposed similarity between the lechathila miderabanan of hanuka lights which could depend on other factors and the non
negotiable issur min hatorah to sleep outside of the suka.There is no answer from the habad side [yet] re –
the twists and turns re the ikarei emuna of bi’at hamashiach , a] whether mashiach can die before finishing his job or not.
b] whether the late rebbi of the habad hasidim wanted to crown
himself/accept the crown his hasidim bestowed on him [after been
prodded by their rebbi to do so] , or not .There is no answer from the habad side [yet] re –
the incompatibility of their contemporary mashiach theology with RAMBAM hilhot melachim and RAMBAN in sefer havikuach.There is no answer from the habad side [yet] re –
the existence of a subgroup within habad of so called ‘elokistim’ who claim that their late rebbi and elokim are one chvsh