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katan > …. the Zionists provoked Hitler in the name of world Jewry ….
—
factually wrong .
the zionist organization did not provoke hitler .
the zionists in the 1930’s collaborated with hitler
not out of sympathy , from either side , I must note .
but because of overlapping interests ….
both hitler and the zionists wanted the jews out of germany
for totally different reasons , they both had the same goal .
they did not boycott hitler
it was the american reform jews who boycotted hitler
—In the United States a boycott committee was established by the American Jewish Congress (AJC) …. [wikipedia]
….. at the same time, Zionists were brokering the Haavara Agreement with Germany to open trade in exchange for sending German Jews to Palestine. When German emigrants arrived in Palestine, they would receive a portion of their capital in the form of goods and the rest in pounds sterling. The benefits for both sides were numerous. First, the agreement would drastically increase German Jewish emigration, fulfilling a central plank of the Nazi Party platform. It would also further the goals of the Zionists, who could help populate Palestine with prosperous immigrants whose money could vastly improve the struggling economy. Likewise, the capital purchases of German imports would be a boon for the depression-ravaged German economy at a time when the Nazi regime had promised to return the Reich to economic prosperity. [wikipedia]
.AAQ > …people will think of Charedim more as conscientious objectors than as a fifth column.
—
I in your place would be ashamed to repeat such a blood libel ….
calling haredim objecting to the draft a fifth column …..
you could have accused them of poisoning the wells for that matter ….
.
.
is that naivete ?or prejudice and blind hate ?
.
.aaq to yankel :
…You believe that Charedim shouldn’t go to the IDF, fine. It’s understandable. Just don’t treat Religious Zionists who do enlist as Ovdei Avodah Zarah …—
you are totally missing the boat
I am on record , repeatedly so – that RZ are not ovdei avoda zara
nevertheless, the current dictatorial, illegal and immoral forced draft
under the blatantly false pretext of ‘equality’, is nothing more than an abomination.
.
.yb > Rav Elchonon wrote that RZ is avoda zara beshituf in a hashkafic sense , not in a halachik sense.”
—katan > That’s interesting. So, if you say that Catholicism is also A”Z only in a hashkafic sense but not in an halachic sense, then what could that possibly even mean?
—high time to stop burying your head in the sand
.no rav no dayan , no bet hora’a anywhere on the globe ever considered a get with fully frum RZ witnesses as pasul
the subsequent children are kesherim lavo bakahal
this psak is supported by REW z’l , the source you yourself are relying on ….
.
whereas a get with fully shomrei mitsvot believers in catholicism as edim is pasul in ALL batei din around the globe
the subsequent children are proper mamzerim and pesulim lavo bakahal
.
.
someone who gets angry is connected to a’z
RZ is connected to a’z [according to REW z’l]both in a hashkafic sense
with a hiyuv min hatorah to love both of them
.catholicism is a’z in a halachik sense
with no hiyuv .
.huge difference.
.
.
.aaq > … But your underlying premise seems to be that zionists brought damage to yirat shamayim. I question that …
—
that statement of yours is an excellent example of your ongoing naive and unrealistic grasp of events [sorry]
zionism was one of the most potent driving forces of pulling the youth [and older people too] away from yahadut before the war in Europe
as it was with the sefaradi immigrants to the newborn state
that and communism were the two evil magnets drawing people away from religion
any objective observer would agree.
.
.@chiefshmerel
@aaqre hakarat hatov –
hazal say that someone who is kofer betovato of people , will end up doing the same to HKBH .
it seems that the cultivation of hakarat hatov to people is meant to be as a stepping stone to hakarat hatov to the RBSH’O
so which is more important ? hakarat hatov to people or to God ?
obviously the latter …
so even if , a very big if …
there is a place for hakarat hatov to zionists
the obligation of hakarat hatov to God will negate any other obligation of hakarat hatov
so, to sacrifice your children on the false altar of hakarat hatov to the zionists is utter folly, to say the least.
.
.
.I’m not almost there . I am there .
You are the one who is almost there .
Steipler writes nothing about whether they may be a kofer or not .
Steiple addresses exactly our she’ela . A fully frum believer in athalta degeula is not a kofer .
he is bichlal amitecha .
assur to speak lashon hara about him .
exactly what I said .
therefore , it is obvious that it is a mitsva min hatorah to love him.
—
you , somejew are adding to the staipler that he may be a kofer for another reason .
your own private observation is totally correct – as correct as the observation that any satmar hasid may be a kofer for another reason …..
.
.
.@AAQ
to your uninformed eye … I fully agree here ….
—
would like to take the opportunity to ‘inform’ you here of some simple facts
the exact same system and the exact same lack of constitution was the case for the first half of a century of the medina’s existence
the same ‘lack of stability’ by the voter was the case then , and the exact same mechanism was in force then , and nevertheless
for 5 long decades the elected politicians legislated , ruled , compromised and were accountable to the voter at regular intervals , while the unelected courts applied the laws , using the power granted them by the elected politicians .
the courts recognized where their power originated from and acted only within their legal power.
for the last 30 years , the courts like the proverbial golem which was kam al yotsro , slowly but surely kept on advancing outside their legal mandate until the present situation where they and their judicial lackeys ILLEGALLY interfere in all aspects of the other two branches, with the courts even canceling the laws regulating … the courts !!!!!
all the arguments you bring were equally valid over 5 long decades too, and still all functioned well .
those arguments are clearly and totally insufficient to explain the courts illegal behaviour over the last 30 years
this is an illegal, immoral and unaccountable clique which should be driven from their self appropriated positions the sooner the better.
.
.
.@AAQ
correction : the worst attitude is to capitulate to the danger , i.e. enlist .
.
.@AAQ
it is ideal to follow rambam’s advice .
it is not ideal to discard rambam’s advice
the torah is netsach , the advice is netsach .
netsach means ‘longer than hundreds of years’
means that we will listen to rambam for thousands of years if need be
if the situation changes and we will not need to be in a midbar anymore , then the advice will change
so length of time is completely irrelevant here
if you are REALLY interested in following rambam , that is ….
not if you are merely USING rambam for your own shitot whenever convenient
..
.
.no problem . challenge accepted
here we go
zionism is the movement which advocated for a return of the jews to EY and their establishment of an independent state there .
galut is the forced dispersion of the jews after hurban bayit sheni
mashiach is the shliach from the RBSH’O to take all jews back to EY and who will rebuild the bet hamikdash
.so the question was and still is – where in the 13 ikarim is there something against zionism ?
.
thanks
.katan > Rav Elchonon Wasserman … writes explicitly that Nationalism/Zionism is idolatry and that Torah and, liHavdil, Nationalism is Torah and idolatry biShituf.
The Brisker Rav published, and the Gerrer Rebbe and others signed on, that “Dati Leumi” education in their time and locale was a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah” ….
…. To be fair, though, the reason that ZSK isn’t likely concerned about L”H against Conservative and Reform communities is that ZSK likely agrees that those movements are heretical and that its followers are unfortunately not biChlal amisecha.
—
katan should open his eyes to the clear and stark reality in front of his eyes .
all rebbeim of gur without exception [!] consider all fully frum dati leumi jews as halachically included in ‘amitecha’
even a ten year old knows that
to claim otherwise is akin to denial of the sun’s existence …
so why did he sign that letter re dati leum education ?
answer – this is figurative , not halacha
like a ko’ess who according to hazal is like an oved avoda zara
is a ko’ess not biklal amitecha al pi hahalacha ??? has veshalom !!!
same with dati le’umi …..
.
.@AAQ
you claim that without zionists it would have been under arab rule
impossible to verify what would have happened if not for the zionists …
you would need ruach hakodesh to be able to answer such a question accurately .
if the RBSH’O would have wanted 8 million jews in EY , He could have made it happen without the ‘help’ of the zionists .
that’s pretty clear to anyone with emuna .
.
.@chiefshmerel
@AAQYou both forget the most important point here – without HKBH no haredi , and no jew for that matter , would have been able to be in EY now
so our main allegiance is to the RBSH’O , not to the Turks who happened to let some in , not to the British who happened to let some in , not to the zionists who pushed for unrestricted immigration and besides , also made a mess , but to the RBSH’O without whose help no jew would live in EY today.
and that allegiance trumps all other allegiances.
meaning that if haredi enlistment [which really is the elephant in this coffeeroom] contravenes our allegiance to the RBSH’O , by sacrificing our youth as a goodwill present to the melting pot reeducation system the army was intended to be ,
then all other allegiances are beteilin umevutolin , lo shririn velo kayomin …
even if – and thats a big if , there even exists an allegiance to the zionists , which I greatly doubt ….
.
.@AAQ
the question is not what historically happened in lita
the question was rather- what somejew and katan’s shitah really is …
.
.they are very selective in which questions they answer ….
wonder why ….
does it have anything to do with fear that honest answers on their part will cause them to feel to be contradicted by …
themselves ???
.
.@AAQ
aaq > … I suggest first look at who is a talmid chacham by an objective criterion – level of learning, respect from other talmidei chachamim (that includes those who disagree with each other, or those who are respected by only some of the other talmidei chachamim), and then take in all the opinions of the selected group.
—
‘objective criterion’ , yes . but lav davka your criteria ….
I prefer , [and you should too] the shulhan aruch’s criteria anfd there is an important one there , which you omitted .
hilchot talmud torah in YD – a t’ch who is lacking in yirat shamayim , is disqualified from being a talmid chacham
a talmid chacham who does not use all his spare time for learning is disqualified.
it does not mention anything there about respect .
this was your private addition …
.
.@chief shmerel
even if , for arguments sake , even if you would be right re the necessity of the zionists to facilitate those haredim’s entry in to EY
where do we find in halacha that the inyan of hakarat hatov trumps clear damage to yir’at shamayim ?
for example – kibud av is based on hakarat hatov [sefer hachinuch and more]
nevertheless if the father is a rasha – that mitsva disappears …
why does it disappear – what happened to this vital inyan of hakarat hatov ???
.
.
another example – there is an inyan of hakarat hatov with the mitsrimki ger hayita be’artso
nevertheless they are only mutar lavo bekahal after three dorot
why ?? what happened to hakarat hatov ??
.
.@AAQ
aaq > by the way, your analogy is not necessarily correct. See Avoda Zorah that shows that sakanah has to be treated stricter than a spiritual matter.
That is, if you follow halachik methodology and arrive to a conclusion according to majority, you are sort of covered even if you made a mistake …
—you seemingly refer to the principle of ‘hamirah sakantah me’isura’
but that is not said in a case of losing ones faith and religion – OTD .
Rav zilberstein shlita is on record to be matir and even mandate hilul shabat to avoid the draft if draftee is in danger of OTD
that clearly puts OTD in a whole new and different category to stam issurin
it s the basics of yahadut which are in danger here ….
.
.
.@AAQ
just as a continuation of previous post
It was the elected parliament who voted for the tal law
and it was the unelected clique which canceled it …
.
.
.@AAQ
> aaq … my humble understanding is that Tal’ laws was an attempt of such compromise – and there was no progress in bringing charedim into the army, community simply used this as an opportunity to continue previous arrangement …—
your humble misunderstanding …. better said
you are factually incorrect here , sorry.
there was a change – the units of nachal charedi were a result of the tal law …
.
.do not forget ,
1] the SC imposed woke conditions on to army guidelines regarding gender folly, changing the status quo
and 2] elitist lefty army commanders ignored their recruits’ background and forced them into inappropriate situations
no wonder that appetite for service declined
they seem to think that powerful people can have their cake and simultaneously eat it
it does not work that way
the result of that attitude is the present ‘near civil war’
..
the fault lies exclusively with the illegal judicial overreach
if parliament and the politicians would call the shots, as should be
a compromise , which you are calling for , would have been implemented
and this absolutely pointless fight would have been avoided
saving ourselves untold problems , untold finances and untold manpower.
.
.
the biggest irony of all , is that the deciders, those who make the decisions, are not even accountable for their decisions …
.
.
this system is broken and this unaccountable elitist non elected clique needs to go and , the sooner the better .
.
.AAQ > what is the “exit strategy” from the desert?
overlooked that comment of yours , will react to it now …
—am absolutely not looking for any exit strategy from the so called ‘desert’ ….
for the simple reason that not less of a personage than the rambam is the one who advocated for relocating to the desert….
those within the desert are fortunate and should stay there …
.
.As usual , there is no response forthcoming from either somejew , nor katan on the above issue
but had another important question to both of them :
if you , somejew or katan , would have been on that fateful bus in ramot when those two arab murderers started shooting at innocent civilians , murdering six and wounding countless others ,
and you would have a mobile on you – would you call the police ??
please , a “to the point answer” , without sidestepping , with a reason behind your answer …
.
.ujm is correct in his reasoning here.
.
.besides – who said that without the zionists the haredim coming after 1948 would not be able to enter EY ?
don’t forget – without zionists, the response of the local rulers would be more favorable to jewish immigration.
so it really is not accurate to say that haredim are in EY only bizhut the zionists .
.
.the steipler says – that
someone who IS ma’amin be’ikarim and in athalta d/g, is considered our brother al pi hahalacha
.
whether you like it or not – that is what he writes …...
.
it is still possible to fully believe in the 13 ikarim
and still be a ‘full fledged’ zionist
.
.I challenged somejew repeatedly on these pages to explain why it is impossible
to adhere simultaneously to the 13 ikarim and to zionism
but I was not deemed worthy enough in his eyes to merit a response on that specific question
.
.maybe it is because he considers himself too wise to answer fools like me ….
.
but I will pose the question again anyhow
where in the 13 ikarim do we find a contradiction to zionism ?
.
.
.Would katan use the services of any atheist/zionist/reform top surgeons …. ?
yes or no ?
@somejew
@AAQsomejew >
…. every kosher rav must ” hold by the shevuos as halakha” because is it a gemara mefurash that has no one cholek, as we see in the numerous poskim rishonim and acharonim who paskin the shulosh shevios.You cannot find even one charedi Gadol who says the shevios are not haluche,
—-Rambam, Shulchan Aruch and Tur ALL hold that shevios are not lehaloche
[clear words of avnei nezer in YD 454:49-52]somejew holds himself of the caliber worthy to argue with those giants ….
interesting ….
.
.@AAQ
yankel > because …. returning as cripples – is a clear calamity ….
> whereas returning OTD … in your opinion …. is obviously not .AAQ > by the way, your analogy is not necessarily correct. See Avoda Zorah that shows that sakanah has to be treated
stricter than a spiritual matter.
> That is, if you follow halachik methodology and arrive to a conclusion according to majority, you are sort of covered
even if you made a mistake.
If you drink water that was not poisoned according to majority opinion, but actually was – the poison will work.—
You are not addressing my point .
a] there is no majority of yir’ar shamayim chachamim in our case advocating for enlistment , not even a minority …. maybe yechidim mamash …. even am mistapek whether there are even yechidim
b] the children going OTD are OTD … that’s a fact ! ….. exactly like the children who are crippled are crippled …. also a fact !
the principle you quote is only valid in a case doing an issur and the question is , in case the person doing the issur had a bona fide psak from a yerei shamayim rav , whether he has to suffer punishment for his actions …
but the facts are the facts … regardless
the cripples are cripples
and the OTD children are OTD ……and nevertheless you are still making light of the OTD danger and treating the cripple danger with severity ….
.
.katan > the point is that Hashem does not want the Zionists there so, therefore, there obviously must be a better alternative
—
you see that the zionists ARE THERE , must be therefore , that Hashem wants them there ,
otherwise they would not be there ….
.
there must be a better alternative …. who said ???.
.@AAQ
yankel > I treat both SR and r YB soloveitchik with reverence.
> Both were outliers and clearly a minority amongst the chachamim in their views.
> All chachamim seeing the current draft problem with all its current realities and all its repercussions , agree not to
enlist …aaq > I believe most MO and RZ Rabbis, including many students of R Soloveitchik, disagree. I am not bringing names as it is usually not leading to a discussion on merits.
—
Rama hilchot talmud torah in YD clearly paskins that a knowledgeable person lacking in yir’at shamayim is disqualified of the title talmid haham ….
.
.
.katan > … Only a Zionist idolater would definitively state that it is impossible to have anything other than Zionist rule.
—
you missed someone out here …. a realist .
a realist is not beholden to any ideological straightjacket
a realist has no preconceived notions to what the solution is meant to be
a realist’s solutions are tailor-made to …. reality
exactly the approach the torah mandates the Jew to take
torah mandates the Jew to find and execute the most fitting solution to reality as is possible
if that means the continuation of those despicable zionists – so be it …
pikuach nefesh doche et kol hatora , including any possible shavu’oth
.
.katan > Decades ago, the Satmar Rav noted that if the Zionists wanted, that they could approach the nations to have them figure it out
—since when do we base solutions regarding pikuach nefesh problems on how situations presented themselves half a century earlier ??
your approach here , sounds [sorry] like a choice between comedy and a tragedy ….
.
.@AAQ
your call to restore ‘trust’ , is another sign of naivete and [sorry again] lack of comprehension of israeli mentality
remember – hard reality is the master – nothing else
first we should acknowledge reality , internalize it , and only then …. form opinions ….
israeli mentality and practice are essential part of said reality
ignore them at your own peril …
.
.many religious sefaradim ignored said reality during their first generations’ sojourn in EY
they mistakenly thought that reality consists of not much more than wishful thinking
they only realized their mistake when it was too late …
.with
@AAQ
aaq> … learning tests by non-charedi rabbis, restrictions on travel to Uman…
—
A] Non haredi rabbis have no business at all stepping into haredi institutions , let alone administering tests …plain ridiculous ….
B] restrictions about Uman travel ???
how does that come into the picture at all ??
.
.@AAQ
There is no comparison whatsoever between the legal behaviour of the USA SC on one hand and the Israeli SC on the other.
The US SC recognizes that their power is derived from the People , the Peoples representatives and the Constitution.
The Israeli SC on the other hand, sees itself as its own source of power. It sees itself as not needing the people , nor a constitution , nor the law , as a source of power.
Rather, it sees itself sufficiently ‘enlightened’ , to tell the citizens of the Nation :
what they ought to think ,
how they ought to legislate , and
who they ought to appoint to the bench.If you follow the news over the last 30 years, this is blatant .
The democracy index of the Economist is totally meaningless to me.
I am b’h granted by the One above with reading and thinking abilities and I don’t see any need to outsource them .
For sure not to some elitist lefty institution.
Which thrives on naive people like you [sorry] who take them seriously ….
.
.
.your suggestion re building ‘big coalitions’ is as naive as your other suggestions and not based on hard reality at all
.as you may remember – in any conflict between hard reality and wishful thinking
who wins – hands down ??
..
.@AAQ
not students of Gra , they came towards the end of that century , but were not part of the zionist wave .
they were fully haredi
.Avi k
> Haredim served in war of independence .
correct .
that was in 1948.
but the army under the command of the woke SC , in 2025 is a totally different army ….
.
.@AAQ
Iran also prides itself to be a democracy , and in reality is very far from it.
Israel is moving towards the Iran model , where an unelected clique keeps a big part of the power for itself
while the elected representatives are faced with unelected vetoes at every step.
there is no legal basis for the unelected Israeli SC’s behaviour over the last 30 years
their decisions overriding the other two elected branches
because of ‘unreasonability’ and other similar fabricated reasons are plainly illegal
there is no compromise possible with a clique which insists that democratic rules do not apply to them
the place of compromise is in parliament between politicians
where the haredim overall are prepared to work together with the majority to hammer out a compromise
but in reality [!], which is the only factor which really counts …
the decisions are not made there anymore
they are made in court , by an unelected clique of elites who govern illegally
.
.no possibility for compromise means war …
war forced on the haredim who are left with no choice but to passively defend themselves and their children
the Jewish nation is ancient and survived many wars forced onto them during the last 2000 years
survived them with immense syata dishmaya and mesirut nefesh
and will survive this war forced on to it too
with the same syata deshmaya and the same mesirut nefesh
utsu etsa vesufar , dabru davar velo yakum , ki imanu kel
.
.
.Rav Elchonon wrote that RZ is avoda zara beshituf
but he meant this in a haskafic sense , not in a halachik sense.
RE would not be matir an eshet ish who got married with 2 frum edim who are RZ
nor would any posek
even the SR would not ….
@aaq
I once was in your camp
I naively believed that left and right could live together in EY under a political compromise arrangement
based on democracy
.but reality is much stronger than wishful thinking
as events in the middle east painfully show again and again
.in all cases of conflict between reality and wishful thinking
it is reality which wins , hands down …
.
.you yourself admitted that you do not follow the realities in Israel closely
am wondering – after this honest self assessment, why do you think you are qualified
to have a valid opinion without being acquainted with the relevant reality ?
.
the left , left no possibility for any rules based compromise ….
.somejew > The Steipler says very clearly that an otherwise frum yid does not cross the threshold of kofer in ikkarei hadaas if he makes the mistake of “aschuleh d’geila” vis-a-vis the false geila of the tziyonim. That doesn’t mean that everyone who indeed makes that foolish mistake now has a free pass to believe all types of kefira and apikorsus and can never become a rushe!
—
I never said that someone who ‘makes the mistake of aschuleh d’geila’ cannot become a rushe …
following statement is equally true : I never said that someone who learns vayoel moshe can’t become a rushe
.don’t know where in the world did you see in my writing that someone “cant become” a rushe ???
hareshut netuna [mishna avot] ….. EVERYONE can become a rushe …
al ta’ami beatsmecha ad yom ….
even yochanan cohen gadol could ….
so can the vayoel moshe learner … and so can the dati le’umi yehudi …
.why is what ‘can become’, relevant at all ?
what should be relevant is : what he is !
what is he now ? is he ma’min be 13 ikarim ?
is he shomer torah ?
that’s all that matters.
.so, the steipler says – again – that
someone who IS ma’amin be’ikarim and in athalta d/g, is considered our brother al pi hahalacha
as simple as can be .
.
.somejew’s brain is apparently kidnapped by aliens and reprogrammed by them to make
him think that it is a binary choice between the 13 ikarim and zionism
hence his convoluted and wrong approach.
.in somejew’s reprogrammed mind it is a contradiction
either you are with zionism or you are with the 13 ikarim
would like to get hold of those aliens , maybe
they can deprogram somejew’s mind and let him think , think and …. think
.
.maybe he will see that zionism , although it is , in my eyes, and
in most of the rabbanim’s eyes, a negative movement
and although most of its adherents and founders were apikorsim
.nevertheless it is still possible to fully believe in the 13 ikarim
and still be a ‘full fledged’ zionist
I challenged somejew repeatedly on these pages to explain why it is impossible
to adhere simultaneously to the 13 ikarim and to zionism
but I was not deemed worthy enough in his eyes to merit a response on that specific question
probably it is, because he is too wise to answer fools like me ….
.
but I will pose the question again anyhow
where in the 13 ikarim do we find a contradiction to zionism ?
.
.you said and I quote :
“the real full fledged Zionists – shomer shabbos or not – are no longer part of klal yisroel as per Torah guidelines.”
A] real full fledged zionists , shomer shabbat [and I will add here] shomrei halacha and ma’minim be 13 ikarei emuna
which I suppose is included in your description of shomrei shabat – are no longer part of klal yisroel
by sole virtue of their being ‘full fledged zionists’
thats my understanding of your words ….
.
B] what do you mean by the words ‘full fledged zionists’ ?
again , my understanding here – someone who believes that the medina is athalta d/g .
he supports the medina with all his might
and thinks that this is thw way to bring mashiach
ad kan my understanding of your description of a ‘full fledged zionist’
please correct me if I am wrong in A ? in B ? or in both ?
.
.Supposing I am right in both A and in B , and I do understand you correctly ….
then I definitely stand by my previous post
you do contradict karyane de ‘igrata and all rabanim and dayanim in klal israel .
.
..
am interested to hear your rejoinder .
.
.@Square R
Sq> Concerning those who abandoned the Derech HaTorah and became Secular Zionists,
almost all of them would have abandoned the Derech HaTorah even without Secular Zionism.And almost all Jews who abandoned the Derech HaTorah during their time in the IDF,
they would have abandoned the Derech HaTorah, even without the IDF.
—Incorrect.
Against reality .
Against the torah itself.
cf Rambam hilchot dei’ot, think chapter 6 : derech ha’adam ubryato lihyot nimshach achar sevivato , lefikach …..
.
.
Where is katan ?
is he hiding ?
and why ?
.@AAQ
your post sounds ideal
in theory …
except that considering the hard reality in EY
it is just utopian , nothing more …
when a court cannot find a source of authority to claim jurisdiction
when a court invalidates anything they subjectively consider ‘unreasonable’
which is not my description …
its in their own ‘explanations’ for their rulings
when a court gives itself the power to cancel laws,
voted on by a legal democratic majority
without any source , not in law or a constitution
even those which directly address their own authority !
we know that they are acting illegally
and illegal decisions are to be resisted , not respected.
not unlike the unelected Iranian ‘council of guardians’ canceling laws passed by their parliament
although btw their parliament is not really democratic
when considering that same councils ongoing widespread veto of genuine candidates…
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.@ujm
If a country makes an agreement with a group, future governments cannot unilaterally revoke it.Think of the American government agreements with the Native Americans (better known as Indians). The US can’t cancel it today and say they aren’t bound by the American government that agreed to it 100, 75 or 50 years ago.
[ujm]
—This BG-Agudah agreement is nothing like a treaty between nations
not in a legal sense , nor was it formulated or understood as such at the time
you have to read reality as it really is
counterproductive to defend a rightful cause with baseless claims
it is nothing more than something akin to a coalition agreement ….
and we all know
how durable , trustworthy and enforceable they are …
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.@AAQ
Show of hands ?
my great grandparents immigrated from Russia in the 1800’s , but the evil SC traumatized my son with their terror tactics re his enlistment without any legal basis …
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.@square root
can not understand you – thousands of people chvsh fall sick , an epidemic …
would you send your own kid to fall sick because others are sick already ?
where is the logic ?
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