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@Avi K
you asked what’s wrong with a license
cannot speak for rav shach
but can offer my own thoughts
rambam writes that to truly acquire the crown of torah , one should not take his mind of the torah towards other things
a driver license for a yeshiva bachur, is an opening to many ‘other things’ where his mind could be, and should not be
if we want to produce students adorned by the ‘crown of torah’ , that is
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.
The fact is that Senate Majority Leader Shumer did quote the religious anti zionists who appear in the media as justification for his speech advocating certain arms deliveries.
Not Nadler .
Shumer .
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.It’s clear beyond doubt that you are correct re Hazon Ish’s position
He is on clear public record opposing draft of yeshiva boys with every fiber of his being .
Any attempt to claim otherwise is nothing less than holocaust revisionism .
SQUARE , by posting such nonsense , is seriously impinging his own credibility .
.
.We Jews have the choice to actively reject the NK who join murderers , condemn those evil people who implicitly support violence against our own brothers , and work to teach those Jews who have been misled , that the path of Torah is not the path of NK or any other false substitute for ga’avah and bad midoth .
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.fully agree
rav shach did not hold army service to be lehathila for any religious person
but he did not hold it to be universally yehareg veal yaavor for the non learners
rav shach was also known to tell his talmidim to stand still for the full minute of the siren on yom hazikaron
but he did rail publicly against zionism
he made a point of being maspid satmar rav in his yeshiva’s main bet hamidrash
—
the lesson of all that is that not everything is black and white , like some posters are trying to portray it ….
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.AAQ is Jewish
that much is sure …
ironclad proof from AAQ’s posts
reality stares him straight into his face
and still , true to the time honored Jewish midah of am keshei oref
AAQ keeps on ignoring it ….
he has a magic wand and voila …
he makes reality disappear …
he simply says the following magic formula : do not get bogged down in details ….
what you do not see , does not exist and … shalom al yisrael ….
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.have no reason to doubt AAQ’s personality
am referring only to his suggestions and observations
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.satmar rav, as far as I can remember, does not address hashmatat haposkim
please correct me , with his answer and page number ….
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.otherwise we will have to ask somejew the following question :
are you joking ?
or did you lose your integrity ?
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.Agree with yaakov yosef re the point of no practical application of the oaths in any case
but this has become a staple of the continuous hijacking attempt
am referring to the repeated attempts to co opt legitimate protesters against evil influences and evil actions by the medina
and remake them into blind , no-matter-the-cost , fanatical opponents of the medina …
these are misleading and dishonest portrayals of the mainstream majority haredi rabanim
that’s the reason of the recurring debate about the oaths
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..
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.@AAQ
mendlesohn is not a victim as per your attempted portrayal
mendlesohn was a perpetrator
and is responsible to a great extent for his and subsequent generations’ downfall
if mendlesohn would have been inactive , instead of active
the whole situation of klal yisrael would have been very different and much much better
the wholesale assimilation of german jewry is due to his influence
and the cruel annihilation program in that very same country a century and a half later
is a result of this assimilation
if mendlesohn would have been a makir et mekomo notwithstanding his superior intellect
and would , instead of charting his own course , collaborated , taken advice and let himself be guided by the sages of his generation
then his name would be counted amongst the great
but now his name belongs amongst those mentioned leshimtsah
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.tactics of somejew , ujm and katan
within the overall strategy of propaganda in favor of their almost idol like misrepresentation of judaism
repeat ad nauseam baseless exaggerations about the evil of zionism
by quoting real gedolei yisrael out of context
ignoring other relevant facts and obvious questions
retreat when those questions are posed
and reappear a while later , hoping the public will have forgotten about those unanswered question
and restart with the very same baseless exaggerations and lack of context
all the while relying – or hoping to rely – on the public’s short memory ….
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.YYA :
The problem is that the Israeli SC gave itself de facto the powers of the President of the United States, where every law and every appointment automatically needs their approval or veto.——————
Would like to correct you here if I may …
Israeli SC gave itself MORE THAN the powers of the elected President of the United States , as the President’s veto can be overridden by 2/3ds of Congress
whereas
the unelected SC’s power is totally unchecked
they have the power , TAKEN BY THEMSELVES , to override even the unanimous knesset
—-think about this – unelected , power taken by themselves
what is this , if not a putsch ?
no matter what so called “indexes” are being used to brainwash people who are perfectly able to think for themselves ….
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.ujm : I’m beginning to see you may mean well (in making factually incorrect statements) but you are politically uneducated. Schumer played absolutely no role in depriving Israel from American arms. This is an unassailable fact.
—lol .
the fact is that the Senate Majority Leader is one of the top four elected officials in the most powerful country in the world
his words are taken VERY SERIOUSLY all over the world
including the biden administration who did withhold weapons .
and including many European countries who imposed embargoes
—–mr ujm -which of these lines are incorrect ?
and why ?
please educate us , the ‘politically uneducated’ ….
Does the Biden Administration reckon with the publicly stated opinion of the Senate Majority Leader , or not ?
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.@AAQ
at the end of your unrealistic post , you came a drop closer to reality – yes that all important pivotal word ….
you started to acknowledge that Israelis may have a different way of operating , and that they may ignore consensus
I would say to that – well done reb AAQ
the Israeli reality is the ONLY reality which counts , not the US reality and not the European reality
and for sure not the utopia , we , or AAQ or anyone else, would wish to be reality
how we think ‘complex democracies’ SHOULD WORK or OUGHT TO WORK is totally irrelevant
the only issue which matter is how the country ACTUALLY WORKS .
as long as you fail to recognize this all important point
all your suggestions are worthless
so , let’s all repeat together again
REALITY – REALITY – REALITY ……
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.to qualify my previous post re rav shachs postion of non learners in the IDF ….
its extremely important to remember that the IDF in those times is not the same IDF as in 2025
the IDF from 2025 is under the command of the evil supreme court who gradually and illegally took power from the nineties and onwards
and drastically worsened the IDF with regard to a boy from a religious home or someone stiving to be religious on his own …
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.so it could very well be that rav shach would not be that quick to force a bachur to the IDF ….
ujm :
This is a complete lie, falsehood, canard and fiction. The Chazon Ish and Rav Elazar Menachem Man Shach never ever supported Chareidi men — even though who are NOT learning Torah — from routinely enlisting in the IDF.
——————-I cannot comment about hazon ish
but I can comment about rav shach
I remember myself that when rav shach was president of va’ad hayeshivot in ey
the va’ad hayeshivot was legally recognized by the IDF as sole certifier of those who were ‘toratam umnutam’
this was – by the way – AFTER 1977 , after the likud under pm meachem begin took over the country after decades of left wing rule
the va’a hayeshivot under directive of rav shach withheld its certification from any bachur who took out a driving license
thus FORCING that bachur to enlist
even if that bachur learnt full three sedarim a day behatmada , if he took out a license , he was out – and drafted
this was clear public knowledge across all yeshivot in ey
so much for the documented position of rav shach re non learners enlistment in the IDF ….
another important saying , also publicly known at the time, of rav shach :
any non learner falsely registering as a learner is nothing less than a rodef …..
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I remember those things as they were happening .
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.… falling for slander by YY Jacobson …. [somejew to YYA]
—
what is that all about ?
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.katan and somejew went on an extended holiday …..
how convenient ….
no need to answer questions ….
no accountability ….
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.dati leumi priests ….. [somejew]
—to call the NK murderers is also not accurate …
but more accurate
than calling the dati leumi rabanim ‘priests’ ….
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.hello – welcome back
am waiting for you on the other thread – you were going to spell out why zionism is necessarily against the 13 ikarim
which ikar , and how so , remember ?
we are waiting and waiting ….
b’h you are alive and well ….
—now regarding your question whether I am joking or lost my integrity ….
the answer is : neither ….
avne nezer clearly says the shavu’oth are not lehalacha
with a new pshat in the gemara
and puts those two points together
and therefore the poskim left out the shavu’oth
as the essay by daniel pinner rightly points out
now I did not learn vayoel moshe recently
its probably some years ago
I do remember satmar rave taking issue with avne nezer ‘s new pshat
but I do not remember him specifically addressing the exact point which this essay highlights and
which was also obviously bothering avne nezer
therefore I wrote in good faith – not joking – , that I have not found where satmar rav addresses this point raised by avne nezer [and daniel pinner]
about hashmatat haposkim
even when reading your post , I have not found an answer to this specific point
do you have an answer ?
would you care to share it with us ?
without diversion to a different topic ….
avne nezer did not have another one , besides his own ….
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.you should stop your false naivete
the fact is that the senate majority leader is one of the top four elected officials in the most powerful country in the world
his words are taken VERY SERIOUSLY all over the world
including the biden administration who did withhold weapons .
and including many European countries who imposed embargoes
so – yes there is blood dripping from their hands
this is plain reality – not hyperbole at all
.
.Ill respond about a major point – not a minor point
the major point is that your comments are not reality based
you play loose with facts and
you move the goalposts in the middle of the game or discussion
not trying to be mean
but someone has to call it out
this is a common thread in 90 % of your comments
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that’s what I really think about your commentarysorry for the personal distress I might be causing you with this comment
but you asked what I really think
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.…. When one side achieves a larger consensus that it is able to change character of the country for decades to come (including assigning judges). It is harder to see in Israel as groups continue coalition bargaining even after elections, and people tend to form narrow political groups, but it should work the same – elect a larger coalition and then you’ll change what you want. For example, the things you don’t like in Israeli system are often a product of pre-1970s system when left had a super-majority.
[AAQ]
—dream on reb AAQ
when you will bend your mind to reality , you will see that this comment of yours is imported straight out of lala land …..
time to make a landing on terra firma …..
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.reminder reb AAQ
the extra 9 % is not going to change one iota
you can have 60 % of the knesset voting with you and the evil SC will strike it down regardless
that’s not even counting all evil legal advisers – the one attached to the knesset , the one attached to the knesset comittee , the one attached to the relevant ministry , plus the evil AG
all the evil trouble they will make before it even comes to a vote
all of the above is encapsulated in one word : REALITY
which you ignore at your own peril
that’s why you come up with all your ‘wonderful’ ideas
each of which carries a hefty price in ruchniyut , payable in cash
and in return we get some air in a balloon
been there done that
there is no better teacher than – again – REALITY
this should become your new refrain – REALITY
everything starts and finishes with his same principle , you cannot wish it away – its name is : REALITY
the more you take it into account , the more chance there is that your ideas will work
because life is all about —- you guessed it —– ……. R E A L I T Y …….
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.@AAQ
I did not like your list
you include mendlesohn
so why did you omit other ‘action takers’ ?
you omitted shabtai tzvi
he also ‘took action’
so did herzl
he also ‘took action’
so did marx
he also ‘took action’
so did trotsky
he ‘also took action’
and the list is endless …
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.@AAQ
its not chaim volozhin
its R chaim volozhin
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.AAQ first accuses innocents of using a stasi approach
because they ask questions
to make sure that AAQ does not play loose with the facts
to make sure that AAQ does not move goalposts smack in the middle of the game
it was AAQ who labeled those questions ‘stasi like’ – not me ….
it seems like AAQ attempted to use this ‘stasi’ description to escape scrutiny and therefore accountability ….
the obvious rejoinder was that the questioner should continue using what AAQ described [!] as ‘stasi’
whereafter AAQ turns around and accuses people of not being respectful ….
is that another example of AAQ moving goalposts in the middle of the game ?
Am left wondering ….
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.@AAQ
you are missing the point
am not sitting in judgement on people and deciding ‘how bad’ they are
am exposing your naivete
and your lack of considering reality
there is a clear ideological imperative in powerful circles in Israel to remake haredi youth
in their own image
the draft issue is being craftily used by those circles to achieve their objective
as long as you keep on ignoring this real issue
all your comments are nothing more than fanciful illusions
no connection whatsoever with ‘analyzing feelings’ and no connection with ‘grasshoppers’
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frum settlers are looked at with deep disdain and are considered abominable and hideousthat is not my analysis at all . this is based on repeated published remarks by leading figures in the secular world
———————
btw . can’t remember my posts ‘analyzing feelings of other posters’but as said before – will repeat it again .
AAQ is ,as is his minhag, playing loose with the facts – again .
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.the senate majority leader is on record in his senate speech defending withholding certain arms from israel
in it he quotes the anti zionists who protest against israel
remember the speech
you willfully ignore the CLEAR FACT that AVNE NEZER writes that the shavu’ot are NOT LEHALACHA and THEREFORE ARE OMITTED BY ALL POSKIM
so you are left with a dispute .
according to satmar rav they are halacha , according to avne nezer they are not halacha
according to avne nezer they are merely A SIMAN for the persons connection to HKBH and his neshama
when will you acknowledge this oh so clear DISPUTE …..
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.@AAQ
satmar rav takes issue with avne nezer’s pshat in the gemara in his vayoel moshe mentioning him by name
but I have not found that he directly addresses the issue of the gaping hole in all halachik codifiers which avne nezer clearly raises .
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.Gerar in the time of Avraham – the subject of the discussion …
unless we are moving some goalposts – again !
was definitely NOT a ‘palestinian’ city
no matter what Josephus would write some 2 thousand years later ….
—-
third example of AAQ playing loose with the facts …..
in the span of so many days ….
.
.nu
is AAQ going to answer the question re the leftists ‘acceptance’ of frum settlers who serve enthusiastically ????
AAQ really thinks that the leftist establishment likes the frum settlers who do serve ?
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.katan and somejew
would you use a zionist neurosurgeon ?
.
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“index” is an affront to your intelligence reb AAQ
start thinking for yourself , lema’an hashem …..
considers himself intelligent and reduces himself to a child who cannot think for himself
totally ridiculous ….
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.hope ujm is not attempting to drag the gra into the NK dirt now ….
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.sorry
senator shumer was the senate majority leader at the time .
.
.Minority Leader Senator Shumer clearly mentioned the anti zionists in his senate speech defending arms embargoes against Israel .
Dripping with blood.
yes.
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.A dispute is when two sides explicitly argue opposite rulings about a particular law. It is not a “dispute” when, like by the oaths, numerous poskim bring something as halacha and some happen to not mention it. That’s called an academic question as to why the others did not mention it.
[katan]—-
this ‘academic question’ has been asked by one of the major poskim the avnei nezer and USED in his maskana that they are not lehalacha ….
so that definitely is a dispute ….
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.it seems that shtika is kehoda’ah ….
zionism is not necessarily against any of the ikarei emuna
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.AAQ really thinks that the leftist establishment likes the frum settlers who do serve ?
they are looked at with deep disdain and are considered abominable and hideous
even serving is not going to get the haredim sympathy
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.AAQ’s wisdom :
someone claims ….. (3) being unable to get involved in things where his Torah morale will suffer.
…. a person who has time to climb up the unfinished building without owner’s permission effectively disproves point number three above ….
————————-
why ?
the fact that he climbs unfinished buildings without permission ,
proves that he should be involved in places where his ‘torah morale’ i.e. yirat shamayim will suffer ?how so ?
whats the connection ?
—-
that came from someone who is ready to outsource his own critical thinking to some “unknown compilers of indexes” …..
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.AAQ is looking down from his ivory tower at those primitive haredim ….
let’s listen in ….
” …. will haredim be able to read population surveys, understand how non-direct democracy works, deal in international affairs ……”
—–
such an insult .
he infers that haredim are some savages from the jungle who cannot read population surveys ….
he infers that crooks overstepping their authority , granted to them by the people , is somehow equal to non direct democracy …..
have got news for AAQ here – it is equal to the following six letter word : P U T S C H
and anyone ready to use his own sechel , without outsourcing it to some mindless professor or bureaucrat , will come to the same conclusion
—-
reb AAQ , it is time to wake up and change your modus operandi
stop relying on others
start thinking for yourself
learn gemarot be’iyun
which will help you to base your thoughts on facts and reality
and check all your facts and figures twice before you start building castles in the sky
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.AAQ to yaakov yosef :
… If you can’t fight off the yetzer hara questioning whether I have substance when I make statements, we can as well stop this Stasi interrogation.
———————————-It was AAQ who first introduced the stasi into this conversation
then it is AAQ who complains that mentioning stasi is ‘immature’
—–
how long ago was it when we complained that AAQ is moving the goalposts in the middle of the game ? ……
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.@AAQ
this lack of attention you refer too , has duly been noted by the gaon the avnei nezer zatsal
at the end of his tshuvot on YD where he concludes that the shavuot do not apply lehalacha
cf avnei nezer YD 454: 49-51
satmar rave takes issue with his opinion in vayoel moshe
so this is a machloket between those rabanim
.
.Hebrew: פְּלִשְׁתִּים, romanized: Pəlištīm; LXX Koine Greek: Φυλιστιείμ, romanized: Phulistieím; Latin: Philistaei – were ancient people who lived on the south coast of Canaan during the Iron Age in a confederation of city-states generally referred to as Philistia.
[pasted from wikipedia]
—————————————————-note : latin – philistaei
not ‘palestinian’ as AAQ would have us believe
AAQ is playing loose -again- with the facts
.
this is the second time ….
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.the first time AAQ ‘changed’ it , by his own admission , from ‘plishtim’ to ‘palestinian’
this is part of an established pattern of inconsistency with fact and reality ….
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.the question was …. lets remember
not about russia or china ….
but specifically about israel and its supreme court
we do not change the goalposts in the middle of the game – right ?
whether the SC’s unauthorized [critical fact , not to be ignored] grab of power
at the expense of the elected representatives
renders israel into a pseudo democracy or not
to decide this one should employ HIS OWN critical thinking abilities
not outsource them to others
you do not even know who they are in person ….
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blind cessation of thinking
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against everything AAQ should stand for …..
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.hello how are you.
nice to hear from you for once
normally you conveniently disappear and do not answer
but I will not do the same
now re your post
do you know that official weapons embargoes against the medina
means more sakana for the yehudim on the frontline chvsh
and more sakana for the yehudim at home
and means extra hizuk for their enemies to kill them chvsh
do you know that policymakers in the US and in other countries from where those weapons are sourced
quote the anti zionist fools/ba’alei ga’ava who are on public record against the medina
as justification for denying this materiel support
thus endangering both the yehudim on the front and the yehudim at home
what I wrote here is only one part
so yes
their crooked propaganda is dripping with blood
its not hyperbole
its reality
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.True Torah Jews Org site would even say that the sun is not shining in the middle of the day if that would benefit their ideology.
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.AAQ really thinks that the leftist establishment likes the frum settlers who do serve ?
they are looked at with deep disdain and are considered abominable and hideous
even serving is not going to get the haredim sympathy
there is only one thing which will get them sympathy …
and that that is – joining the multitudes who threw their religion to the wayside
at the instigation of those very same secularists
time to open his eyes to …… reality , reality , reality ….
cannot say this pivotal word often enough ….
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