yankel berel

@somejew

galut includes :

shibud malhuyot in the form of onerous taxes specifically on the jews

shibud malhuyot as they interfere with kiyum hamitsvot

lack of malhut beit david

dispersion of the yehudim all around the world

being far from EY

lacking the avoda

lacking the tahara engendered by hakravat hakorbanot

lacking the BHMK

lacking hashra’at hashechina

the tsa’ar hashchina

physical tsarot as a result of shibud malhuyot

the immense power of the se’or sheba’issa or the yetser hara

the fact that most of the world’s inhabitants are not aware of the RBSHO and his torah

lacking the required menucha needed to delve into torah properly

lacking batei din smuchim

—

that is as far as my mind goes at this moment

all of the above is included in galut

and will be restored when mashiach will come , may it be soon in our days
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@somejew

simcha is not an evil man .

people who died to save the community in the IDF are on the level of harugei lud .

thats the written opinion of rav chaim shmulevits zatsal.

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@somejew

zionism is not necessarily a heresy

but that is subject of another conversation we are having on another thread

where you are still waiting for my response
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@aaq

thats not a ‘gutte shailo’ at all

this is based on a simple lack of understanding
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no one in his right mind says that re missiles and hostages, no hishtadlut is required —

what they are saying is : the ‘hishtadlut’ which is specifically requested , i.e.

enrollment of our precious and impressionable youth [who will end up being the fathers and educators of the subsequent generation] into the army

will 1] make no material positive difference in the lot of the missiles and hostages anyway

and 2] will make an enormous negative difference in the essence of our precious youth in 99.999 % of the draftees

so —

even though it is true that hishtadlut in general , is required re missiles and hostages , nevertheless

said particular hishtadlut is not required by said particular youth

so —

as a result , using the general and overarching principle in yahadut , that

whenever hishtadlut by this particular person is not permitted , not possible, or not required , for whatever reason —

that person should suffice with the following – rely on, and hope for , and pray to HKBH for a speedy salvation

—

whereas in the case of stopping the immoral gzera of forced enlistment , said hishtadlut , sometimes – depending on the circumstances, is permitted

therefore as a result , again , using the general and overarching principle in yahadut , that

whenever hishtadlut by this particular person is permitted , or required ,

that person is obligated to do both —

also

rely on, and hope for , and pray to HKBH for a speedy salvation

and also

put in the required hishtadlut
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this is not a contradiction at all

just two age old principles of yahadut , put into practice , in two totally different circumstances
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by the way – re funding – as far as I am aware , the demonstrations are not against the funding

they are only against the illegal kidnapping of innocent people

at the behest of biased crooks masquerading as legal experts …
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@AAQ

@Avi k

@zsk

re the hafets hayims postion re zionism

it is well known that aguda was established as a reaction to mizrachi and its willing affiliation and support of the zionist movement

hafets hayim was a leading founding member of aguda

the lack of open writings against zionism from hafes hayim ‘s side , should be attributed to tactical reasons , not to strategy
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clear from the steiplers letter that he is referring to edah hacharedit , and

not to participants in holocaust denying conferences , nor to participants in PLO demonstrations in the 1970’s
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it seems like there are two different qwerty’s on this thread ??
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@aaq

you are right

the problem is getting bigger and bigger as the years go by

the only way this can be handled is by voicing our concerns every time it comes up .

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as an aside –

on the domestic scene —

the religious in Israel are innocent victims of … prejudiced lawfare by biased crooks masquerading as judges and legal experts

—

and ironically …. on the international scene —-

exactly the same :

Israel is the innocent victim of …. prejudiced lawfare by biased crooks masquerading as judges and legal experts

midah keneged midah , hashgacha peratit ……
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@ujm

read the steiplers letter in its entirety and tell me, honestly :

the words ‘neturei karta’ , refer to the edah people or the ones who demonstrated together with the PLO ?
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I am also confused

why are hazals definitions of galut not good ‘working definitions’ ?

I did not post “random musings” …

I posted hazal’s definitions of galut

why are hazal’s definitions not ‘commonly agreed foundations’ ?

I am not disagreeing perse with anything you wrote

just that it is hollow ,incomplete and therefore misleading , to define a concept by only one characteristic …

all explanations by hazal are relevant …

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or not ?
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how many times are people going to fall for the same untruth ?

steipler is NOT referring to the neturei karta as we are

thats clear to any careful reader

he is addressing the issue of VOTING ONLY

he uses the term neturei karta to describe the hevrei ha’eida

thats all

there is no reference whatsoever to any of the unsavory tactics of those neturei karta as they are known

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@somejew

I do not understand .

which part of my post re galut is inaccurate ?

and why cant we work with what I wrote ?
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@qwerty

maybe I mentioned this once already – habad theology reminds me of climate change and chinese influence

all three advance unseen until they suddenly dominate the world …

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Avi k

you are mixing issues

RMF halachically [!] disagreed with those who assered giving back land even bimkom pikuach nefesh . nothing to do with the principle of datt torah

there was no ‘psak’ by r ch’o about shanghai at any time

by the way rch’o was niftar just weeks after the soviets marched into vilna

before the yeshiva moved from lithuania

daat torah was never invented

it exists only to the extent that there are sources in the torah supporting it

and cannot be an invention if thereare sources for it
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@qwerty

The point is that Lubavichers face the same problem. I’m sure that many recognize the issues that we’ve brought to the fore, but they feel that they can’t say or do anything or they’ll face ostracism.

—

that’s an overly rosy view in my opinion …

the lubavichers are hamstrung ,but not because of the fear of ostracism

it is because they cannot accept , under any circumstance , that their rebbi should be mistaken , anytime , on any topic whatsoever

and it is that irrational belief which is the foundation and the singular source of their continuous conundrum

on all of their so called ‘issues’ which are brought up , they are able to point to utterances or writings of their “infallible” rebbi which are a valid source for their mistaken and problematic belief

even though that their rebbi himself is not able to point to any preceding source to validate his opinion

the very minute that a habadi is willing to accept the possibility that his leader , even while being great man , erred , is the very minute of his salvation

otherwise we will continue to go round and round in the same merry go round without any solution whatsoever
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OPEN LETTER TO EVALEMOSHIVLO

I would like to make a suggestion based on RAMBAM . Yes, I am suggesting preparing Orthodox Israeli Jewry for mass Yeridah, and I even have a plan.

Send a delegation for a series of meetings with Government Ministers. (Yes non Jewish Ministers)

Say to them, we are preparing our communities for mass Yeridah.

We want our communities and their families to be able to live near one another and to retain our culture, our educational system etc. We need proper and adequate employment and social services. We need shuls, schools, yeshivos, seminaries, etc.

It can be done. There are large empty expanses of land – in Chuts la’arets .

Yeridah has many challenges but when done together, it’s a whole different story.

I know that I’ll be hit in the face with all sorts of hashkafos that serve the purpose of easing guilt over staying put, but times have changed.

Our precious youth in Israel are hunted by a mafia-like unelected clique , like some sort of criminals.

This is totally unacceptable and unsustainable .

We cannot foresee the results of this unprecedented and evil witch hunt .

WE MUST HAVE A PLAN B!

We MUST seriously consider mass yeridah , for the sake of the Jewish Nation’s eternal future !
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@somejew

re galut

gemara baba batra 8A [if remember correctly] says that limud hatorah if on high level will bring mashiach

if on lower level will reduce shibud malhuyot in the form of easier taxes on the jews

and if on even lower level then the taxes of the shibud malhuyot will be crushing

we see that there are different levels of shibud malhuyot

the jew in the present USA is in galut

the jew under the czar in the 1800’s was also in galut

but lo harei zeh keharei zeh ….

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@aaq

where is sefer ikarim ‘lenient’ about mistakes in core beliefs ?
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@avi k

that tour was when rav kook was still rav of jafo

before he moved to the newly established rabanut rashit
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if not mistaken rav sonnefeld called him by the title of ‘the yafo rav’ even when he was already rav rashi in yerusalem
.

every fact has to placed and considered within its context

otherwise the wrong impression is given
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@hakatan

re rav kook— its not rav elyashiv the young bachur who is taken as proof

although rav elyashiv as chatan not a young bachur , probably could put many, many elderly people to shame …

it is rather his father and mechutan rav avrham elyashiv and rav aryeh levin the tsadiq of yerushalayim and the leshem his grandfather

who were ok with rav kook as mesader kidushin

and rav elyashiv himself as nonagerian who protested at any slight bichvodo shel rav kook

—

the difference between you and other commenters is that you cannot acknowledge any type of nuance

while reality and the whole world is full of nuances
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rav kook was controversial – yes

many disagreed with him – yes

many criticized him – yes

but at the same time – many held of him

and that is the meaning of the word ‘controversial’

why cant you acknowledge that ?
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rav shlomo zalman took his haskama for his ma’adanei erets and for his me’orei haeish

his son rav shmuel did not let the printers omit his haskama

these are facts and should be acknowledged

like the clear praise the emrei emet lavished on him – even while criticizing him in the same breath
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why do you insist on communist style censoring ?
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for your knowledge a picture of the leshem adorned the hafets hayims home …
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@hakatan

have you read the titles rav mibrisk wrote to rav kook ?

have you read the titles the ba’al haleshem wrote to rav kook ?

both were written to rav kook in EY …
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do you know that rav kook was the mesader kidushin of both rav elyashiv and rav shlomo zalman auerbach ?

do you know that the sefer me’orei ha’eish of rav shlomo zalman has a haskama from rav kook

positioned IN FRONT OF rav yosef hayim zonnefelds ?
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do you know that rav shmuel auerbach refused the suggestion to omit rav kook’s haskama from the new edition of me’orei ha’eish ?
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do you know all those details and choose to ignore them ?

or did you just not bother to do the necessary research ?
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either way – it does not reflect very well ….
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@somejew

you are obfuscating …

we were discussing : A] the kfira of trinity and reform

not

B] mistakes in interpretation of the tora

or

valid machlokot within torah

the difference between A and B is of the magnitude as the difference between literally shamayim and arets

steipler classifies athaltah d/g belief as a mere mistake , not as “kfira”

whereas belief in trinity or reform is definitely full fledged “kfira”
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it is already high time to admit to the obvious , mr somejew …..

your credibility will be enhanced [even at this late stage] if you could find the inner fortitude to be modeh al ha’emet

whereas it will totally crash if you still cannot …..
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somejew claims that he “didn’t see anywhere that the Steipler says that NK are mistaken” ….

the Steipler writes:
[…]
……………בעיקר הדבר כך דעתי העניי נוטה שמצוה רבה להצביע לרשימה החרדית ושיש בזה ממש הצלת הדת לפי המצב כעת……
……..ומה ששמע מעלתו שיש איסורים בדבר…….
כתב מע’ שיש איסור בהצבעה מצד מודה בע”ז, והוא דבר שאין לו שחר, הלא המציאות בעוה”ר הוא שהשלטון בידם לע”ע ומחמת מציאות זו מצביעים ושותפים שומרי תורה להתם ע”ם להציל כפי האפשרי, ואיזו הודאה יש כאן שמסכים ברשעת הרשעים ח”ו בדעות טמאים שלהם

וידע מע”כ שגם לצורך קנאות אסור לגלות פנים בתורה שלא כהלכה, ומה שאינו אמת אינו מצליח כלל

how can somejew not see which is obvious to all ???

NK clearly hold that participating in elections is prohibited , as the questioner to the steipler held

whereupon the steipler answers that this is a “davar she’ein lo shachar” ….

and labels that view as “giluy panim batorah shelo kehalacha”

and as “eino emet” and predicts that it therefore will be “eino matsliach klal”

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in other words – as clear as can be : that according to staipler the NK and somejew are mistaken !

and hold opinions against the torah !

which according to somejews own [convoluted and totally mistaken] reasoning is nothing less than kfira ?!

on par with trinity and reform ???!!!

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nothing less than total absurdity ….

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@avi k

there is no indication whatsoever to be taken from the fact that hafets hayim approved of rav kook going into the rabinate

even if historically correct ,

towards any of his later sayings about hebrew university

or his actions while in the newly established rabbanut harashit

which made him controversial

those things happened only much , much later
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