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the cat is out of the bag
somejew has stated that his opinion re tinok shenishbah is right and chazon ish is wrong
and most importantly that he understands halacha better than the chazon ish
and therefore somejew is handing out ‘zuken mamreh’ cards
for disagreeing with somejews understanding
it seems that chazon ish is also a candidate for one of somejew’s “zuken mamre cards” ???
no wonder that somejew ‘s klal yisrael consists of very few members ….
.
.but you conveniently ‘forgot’ the other side of the coin
there are no nazi’s who would recoil at hearing denigrating comments about the jews
there are conversely a huge amount of zionists who genuinely recoil at such comments
so my original argument stands
the correct monikker is
— secular —–
not zionist
what was the kushyia on rav friedman , remind me please ?
.Somejew has zuken mamre cards which he gives out whenever gdolei hador, talmidei hahamim or rabanim explain or apply hazal
in a way which contradicts
somejews understanding of the torah
rov minyan ubinyan of erliche klal yisrael with their gdolim have siyata dishmaya to mechaven to the emet
somejew is the one who knows the ‘truth’ and accordingly excludes whoever disagrees
instead of employing some humility before those greater than him
i.e. the gdolei hador
he self appoints himself as the one who is shofet et hashoftim ….
he reeks of ga’ava ….
no wonder that in his klal yisrael there are only a few hundred members …
.
.
your post re gorens proper appellation is incomprehensible to me
the most chashuv rabbanim sign publicly that his proper appellation is without the title rav
and haleivi bichvodo uveatsmo disagrees ….
haleivi deems himself as more qualified than them to decide who is or isn’t worthy of the title rav ???
.
.@AAQ
….There are lots of cases where rabbinical opinions show up late: turns out R Landau is against demonstrations …
[aaq]
—————–
that serves as another reminder of aaq’s ignorance of basic facts in EY
most mainstream rabbanim were against demo’s
this is not news at all
starting from rav shach
rav steinman
rav elyashiv
and most hasidic rebeim
.
.
YYA
The British also had no right to speak on behalf of the Arabs, something the Arabs still resent down to today ..
—
And the arabs do have a right to speak ‘on behalf of’ the arabs ?
what exactly are the criteria for the right to speak ‘on behalf’ ?
would ottoman turkey satisfy the criteria for speaking ‘on behalf’ ?
would the roman empire satisfy the criteria of haskama shel ha’umot ?
positing that haskamat ha’umot is a matir [as per your reasoning]
is kibush milhamah a kinyan al pi torah ?
cf avnei nezer where he posits that pre revolutionary russia is the private domain of the tsar al pi torah
so why is palestine not the possession of the british empire, al pi torah ?
.
.
rav zevin is on record saying that the 1947 un vote constitutes haskamat ha umotwas it ‘theirs’ to be maskim ?
maybe . it was a mandate , after all .
not clear …
.
.@shimon kats
I heard multiple times from chashuve upstanding habadi’s that their rebbi is greater than moshe rabenu
they told me that in all sincerity
I cannot imagine anyone in the last 3000 years of jewish history saying that about his rebbi .
who else said that about their leader ?
the only person I can think of is someone who lehavdil also claimed he had no earthly father ….
they also told me that their leader is not in gan eden …..
correct me if wrong ….
YYA
Among other reasons, because we didn’t swear to THEM, but to the Ribbono Shel Olam.
—
when and where did we swear to the RBSH’O ?
.
.reminder to the reader:
what somejew claims to be ‘torah’
does not necessarily have to jibe with the real torah
somejew has selective reading glasses ….
.
.@ shimon kats
de-emphasizing fire and brimstone … does not mean that the actual criteria of the torah changed
not at all
only that the results of fire and brimstone mussar are sometimes not good anymore
and the results of the ‘loving’ type of mussar are better
cf. gemara end of sotah mentions what the kohen says to the soteh about other people transgressing
because of the superior results in getting the sotah to do teshuva , lav davka that it actually reflects reality …
—
besides the point , this reality is anyway not noge’a to us
we do not sit in bet din shel ma’ala
the only thing we should be concerned about is our yachas to those people , nothing more
the ‘rich world of chasidut’ you mention, is only applying to our yachas to those people
but not to reality which did not change
somejew made a very revealing statement just now :
I, personally, have no issue with that consideration as most of the upstanding normal Jews of all colors I know are full of heresy from top to bottom.
—–
that gives you an accurate description of where on the map somejew is positioning himself
according to somejew there are now , probably only a few hundred , or maybe a few thousand non heretical jews on the planet
according to somejew it seems that 99 % of haredi jews are kofrim [full of heresy – in his words] ….
we should keep that at the forefront of our minds whenever we read his posts …..
.
.the shavu’oth are different to hilchot lashon hara which are mentioned in yad hachazaka as opposed to the shavu’ot
the omission of the shavu’oth from sifrei halacha is brought as a factor by an authority no less than the gaon the avnei nezer [YD 454:48-51]
he explains that the shavu’ot are ‘not lehalacha’ [his language] and
that explains the widespread omission from the accepted codifiers [again his language]
whereas there is no mention whatsoever anywhere in any posek re lashon harah being omitted …
and the issur of lashon harah ‘not being lehalacha’
.
.… Aside from the Divrei Yoel, many other Poskim held the Oaths to be very serious and very real, including Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch, the Chofetz Chaim, Rav Chaim Brisker and his son Rav Velvel, Rav Elchonon Wasserman, Rav Reuven Grozovsky, Rav Eliyahu Henkin …
—
you mention the chafets chayim and rav grozovsky
could you point to a specific place ?
.
.ujm is calling the channel 13 reporter a zionist
he could have called him with any other title
the title zionist is irrelevant
even if this reporter does happen to be a zionist
this is totally immaterial to his despicable comment
if he would be a secular post zionist , would he then not have made that same despicable comment ??
there are unfortunately plenty of non zionists capable of making such a comment
and plenty of zionists who recoil at hearing such a comment
the correct moniker is ‘secular’ , not zionist
—–
@shimon kats
You came in the middle of the conversation here .
I was not attempting to discuss the yachas of the aguda rabbanim to the medina per se
nor about the involvement of the haredim in knesset or the medina
I was only pointing out the contradictions within ujm’s posts
on one hand ujm maintains that goldknopf ‘s usage of nazi terms with regard to draft issue is al daat the mo’etset
with proof that the rabbanim of the mo’etset would have publicly distanced themselves from such language
and on the other hand he maintains that all rabanim , even those affiliated with aguda
agree with satmar that the medina is the me’akev of mashiach
that the medina is against the ikarei emuna
that it is prohibited even bimkom pikuach nefesh
so why — according to ujm’s thinking — did the rabanim of the mo’etset not come out in public against rym levin signature
under the declaration of independence
which supposedly is against the ikarei emuna , something which supposedly is yehareig veal yaavor ?
that was my point – nothing more …
.
.@shimon kats
I wrote that this is ‘propaganda’ because that is standard fare in hasiduyot to claim that each successor is a seamless continuation of the previous leader
yes it is more or less the same minhagim the same buildings the same nigunim etcetera
so it looks and appears the same
but when there is a change of personnel at the top
in essence the whole system changes
because the system is a mirror of the personality of the leader
and that changed ….
—-
if daitsh thought that publishing his book will help him in his supposed agenda , then he would be quite silly in my eyes …
this book did nothing for his supposed agenda
if anything , it caused him only trouble
daitsh did a great service to the world in providing many historical facts which are required knowledge when faced with habad deification mass brainwash attempts
there were differences between rayats and his second son in law
rayats did not agree to his stance re Erets Yisrael
rayats did not agree with his extensive university studies
rayats agreed to the shidduch because his second daughter was more open or ‘modern’
the mass deification programs in habad are a clear result of their late leaders deliberate policy
rayats never agreed to such a policy , nor did he ever cultivate such a thing
re bias
Chazon ish writes in emuna uvitachon [if not mistaken] based on shulchan aruch that a rav can decide even his own meat whether it is kasher or not
and is not pasul because of personal interest
he decries the convenient excuse for not following rabanim whenever they go against the layman’s opinion
that the rav decided the way he decided , because of personal interest …
—
I personally knew some of the signatories of the psak re goren
and know many people who knew the others personally
I can assure anyone
this has nothing to do with supposed zionist leanings of goren
or any political affiliations
and for sure not as a result of any newspaper articles
this is a pure halachik issue pertaining to the specific personality of goren himself
and it was on those halachik grounds that this psak was issued
I do not know of any rabbinic figure who merited such a public psak by such a variety of klal yisrael’s greatest
and the problem lies with goren personally as opposed to the signatories
any straight thinking honest person would agree with me
.
.you seem to waffle between the rabbanim being against goren or the newspapers being against him
you seem to miss something extremely basic here
the august rabbanim — those who signed on to this public psak delegitimising goren
do not have to recuse themselves because of some supposed ‘conflict of interest’
for the simple reason that there is no personal interest at all besides kvod shamayim
this is obvious to any person who is close enough to observe them on a long term basis
in your world this seems not to exist
therefore – in your world everything is personal interest
and therefore — in your world — rabbanim do follow the newspapers …. they are … followers
those rabbanim who signed — by virtue of their non personal interest,, are not followers …
they are … leaders … true leaders
thats why the public follows them
in your world the rabanim seem not to be leaders … but followers ….
which is why the public uses them … but does not follow them
—-
how many participants were there at the funerals of the signatories of this psak ???
conversely – how many participants were there at the funeral of goren ???
did his public use goren ???
or did they follow goren ???
—
I most strenuously condemn your summary
you attribute to me that zionism is ‘holy’
you could not have been more wrong
I never said that , nor did I even insinuate that.
.
.the bottom line however is the following —
according to satmar this declaration is kefira be’ikar
against all the ikarim
is yehareig ve’al yaavor
and on top of that three unhinged commenters repeatedly post
that this is accepted by ALL rabbanim
..
comes ujm and is mechadesh that shtika of the rabbanim affiliated with aguda is a hoda’a to the statements of its lay leadership
now— use ujm’s logic and voila —
we have a haskama that signing this declaration is none of the above
not kefira in the ikarim
not yehareig ve’al yaavor
not THE supposed source of all evil …..
.
there is another issue with the tefillin raised by satmar rav : guf naki
.
.Shimon katz
seem to remember that rayats had his gripes about his son in law according to shimon deuts’hs biography about the late leader of habad …
there is much more to the story than your simplistic propaganda version , ….
.
.your description of the kol loreh by the greatest rabbanim as a ‘result’ of newspaper writings is beyond the pale.
those rabbanims integrity and yirat shamayim totally precludes that from being the case
Anyone who knew those rabbanim personally could testify to the above .
I think you yourself would agree to those simple and true facts , had you merited this personal acquaintance.
goren was not a rav , not because of any newspaper article
goren was not a rav because the gedolei hador said so , unambiguously.
you would serve the cause of truth if you would state your agreement .
.
.Rav Goren is not a Rabbinic authority to the Charedi public, mainly due to the Charedi media’s blatant disrespect and slander as well as Satmar – who essentially called him the devil incarnate. But say I mentioned Rav Kook or other world-class RZ Rabbonim, would you say the same thing, that they aren’t authorities, and only Charedi Rabbonim count?
[zsk]——————————
Wrong . Sorry but wrong . Goren is not a rabbinic authority to the charedi public , not because of a supposed “Charedi media’s blatant disrespect and slander and satmers calling him the devil incarnate”.
No.
The reason why he is not a rabbinic authority is because a signed and widely publicised psak that goren is not a rav and that all his halachik decisions are invalid .
This psak was signed by rav elyashiv, rav shlomo zalman auerbach , rav yaakov yisrael kanievsky , rav shach and rav chaim shmulevits .
This psak was supported by rav moshe feinstein and rav yaakov kamenetski
I do not know any other orthodox person who merited such a public statement from such a wall to wall list of august personalities about their specific persona
rav kuk, although controversial , was admired and respected by rav elyashiv and rav auerbach
one can state unequivocally the following :
the rov minyan and the rov binyan of orthodoxy rejected goren as a rav .
.
Proposed Solution to the Arab-Zionist Conflict: Non-Denominational State
I agree that a person who stupidly claims the Torah is NOT a real covenant with The Creator – reform, secular, religion zionist, or whatever – can not call himself Jewish with any integrity because those words indeed mean he believes he is bound by the Divine Torah. However, he may still indeed be Jewish (obligated) despite not being part of klal yisroel (rewarded).
[somejew]
————————————————-this is unsupported in judaism
.
.chiloni protests held more sway.
and worked very well …
because the judicial system , the MSM and the international left very shrewdly held their hands over them
in a blatant shmor li va’eshmor lach fashion
and are to blame for everything going wrong today.
/
correct
r levin did not view it like a RZ.
but he signed .
I disagree that his non signature would signify the retreat of the status quo
I also disagree that the RBSHO was left out of the declaration
the peshara was the inclusion of the words ‘tsur yisrael’ which the religious understood as referring to God.
the bottom line however is the following —
according to satmar this declaration is kefira be’ikar
against all the ikarim
is yehareig ve’al yaavor
and on top of that three unhinged commenters repeatedly post
that this is accepted by ALL rabbanim
..
comes ujm and is mechadesh that shtika of the rabbanim affiliated with aguda is a hoda’a to the statements of its lay leadership
now— use ujm’s logic and voila —
we have a haskama that signing this declaration is none of the above
not kefira in the ikarim
not yehareig ve’al yaavor
not THE supposed source of all evil …..
.
.Front page has a video of R Landau saying that bochurim should not be at these demonstrations. So, those who were there either did not bother asking the gadol, or went against his instructions? If so, what are their expectation – what zechus is protecting them?
[aaq]
—————————-Those AAQ’s comments reveal his ignorance of the basic facts of the israeli scene ….
.
@moshe goldwasser
the idea of the ‘veltishe’ kiruv orgs [who definitely have a different outlook than habad]
did absolutely not ‘come from’ habad !!!
this is classic false habad propaganda
used to brainwash its adherents
.
.I was reading somejew’s previous post claiming that a mumar does not get rewarded for mitsvot . that was the alternative to the 13 ikarim ….
.the pashtut in maharal is that the oaths are yehareig veal yaavor
how that fits with the klal that only the 3 hamurot are classified as such I do not know
.@ rightjew
even an authentic prophet cannot nullify a mitsvah
cf rambam end yesodei hatorah
at the most they can temporarily suspend certain mitsvot – if expressly commanded by the RBSH’O
.goren is not accepted as a rabbinical authority and his mention undermeines your post
.anyone who reads up about the nazi’s does not call them nazi’s
it only serves to cheapen the unspeakable horror of the nazi’s
it does not elevate the horror of the machti’o
think about this and you will get my point
..
somejew seems to agree that a mumar is rewarded for his mitsvot
maybe not in olam haba
but rewarded nevertheless
.
..
thanks for your being modeh al ha’emet …
.
.@shalom al
this is not limited to those two judges
the entire system is riddled with rabid leftists and haters of the torah
.
chazon ish famously compared usage of electricity on shabbat in EY , to
a sefer torah burning and a fellow needing fire for his smoke , lights his cigarette on that fire
technically he did not transgress , but who could bring himself to do such a thing …
.….. However, he may still indeed be Jewish (obligated) despite not being part of klal yisroel (rewarded).
————-is there a source for this statement ?
why should he not be rewarded for the mitsvot he did ? ?
.
.Flaming OTD would do herself good if she internalizes the following description of an online message in a video from occupied Iran :
The young Iranian woman highlights Iran’s current reality as a country of more than 92 million people living under an intense digital blackout. “Almost a complete blackout for more than 24 hours: no internet, no phone connection, no communication at all,” she says. “And what does the left do? It stays silent. No protests, no hashtags, no megaphones. Iranian suffering simply doesn’t fit the agenda.”
She argues that this silence is not accidental but deliberate. “Because the suffering of Iranians does not fit their agenda. Because modern leftist movements are no longer driven by human rights – they are driven by selective outrage and ideological loyalty. They will scream about censorship – unless it is done by an Islamist regime. They will condemn state violence to the fullest – but will never say a word if that violence is wrapped in religious language.”
“They chant “Free Palestine,” but will never say “Free Iran,” because that would require one difficult admission: that political Islam is not liberation – it is domination. And, by the way, this is happening in the West today as well.”
“You cannot claim moral superiority while justifying a regime that kills women and punishes them for refusing the hijab, kills protesters, cuts off the internet for a 92-million-strong nation, and uses foreign proxy groups to cover up its own internal collapse. You cannot pretend to care about Palestinians while ignoring Iranians who are being shot, tortured, and killed by the Islamic Republic.”
“History will remember this moment. It will remember who spoke about universal freedom and who decided that some lives are less important than preserving a narrative. Long live Iran,” she concluded.
The clip has sparked widespread debate online, resonating with many who see it as a rare and uncompromising challenge to dominant narratives surrounding Iran, Gaza, and the politics of global protest movements.
.1] there is no basis supporting , AFAIK at least, that BG offered the status quo letter as payment for Itche Maiers signature on the independence declaration
RIM levin signed because he believed in the declaration
2] even if ….
even if that was only to extract ‘concessions’ from BG , gdolei rabbanim would not have left such kfira [in your eyes] stand …
they would have protested
like they should protest according to you , the much lesser avla of calling them nazi’s …
.
.According to LYING flamingOTD , israel is intending to genocide the arabs in EY
I have a basic question for her , basic logic ….
why have they not done so ?
they governed over arabs since 1948
and governed over even more arabs since 1967
at least they should have done to the arabs what the arabs did to the jews they governed ….
at least ….
why did they not do so ? ? ?
elementary question to flaming OTD …..
1] what happened to the 37 shuls in the Old City governed by the arab government from 1948 till 1967 ,for nearly twenty years ? ? ?
2] what happens to the hundreds of mosques governed by israel from 1948 till 2026 ? ? ?
who is really committing genocide ???
flaming … if you do not answer these questions directly , then you are a cheap cop out , nothing more ….
.
.
.ZSK , even though I disagree with him re hallel and other prayers he mentions
has written a very mature fact based rebuttal to katan ujm and somejew
thanks are due to him
those fanatics are doing a disservice to their own cause
.
.Lol.
FlamingOTD is sending urgent advice to the protestors in Iran :
the way to send the supreme dictator packing and ensure freedom from tyranny is ….
through LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE ….
In response …
the protesters are asking why flaming OTD is taunting them ….
.
.
.The poster who self labels as flamingOTD
claims she is female
claims she is jewish
claims she is arab
claims that reality is irrelevant
claims falsely that arabs in israel are not equal to jews before the law
claims falsely that jews are not indigenous in EY
claims falsely that it is sure that the genocidal barbarities which befell other minorities in the Middle East will never befall the jews
claims falsely that the arabs are indigenous in north africa
claims falsely that the arab muslim mindset does not encourage violence
claims falsely that hamas could not give shelter to arab civilians in their 900 kms of tunnels
claims falsely that innocent civilian jews are safe in arab towns all over the middle east
claims falsely that innocent arab civilians are not safe in non battle zone towns under israeli domination
claims falsely that jews were not systematically murdered and ethnically cleansed from arab muslim towns and cities all over the middle east
claims falsely that the stated and proven aim of hamas and friends is not the ethnical cleansing of jews from all of ‘palestine’
claims falsely that the IDF is not the only credible power standing in hamas’ way
claims falsely that OTD and ‘majority’ of arabs in palestine will successfully stop hamas from doing what they clearly say and intend to do
claims falsely that ‘love and acceptance’ will stop hamas from carrying out their genocidal goals, like ‘peace and love’ stopped the nazi’s genocide
claims falsely that utopia and lazy thinking could somehow shield innocents from barbarians
claims falsely that certain standards only apply to an ideological predetermined target
claims falsely that arab muslims live with each other in supposed ‘peace and love’
claims falsely that many hundreds of thousands of innocent arab muslims were never barbarically murdered by their own brothers
—– in iraq , lebanon , syria , jordan , algeria , sudan , yemen and libya ….
and the blatant lies, inconsistencies and double standards within OTD’s posts are following each other in such a fast tempo
—– as if their tempo would somehow fool the bystander into the same dream like existence as OTD fools herself into ….
she is a fool who is so foolish that she fools herself into believing that others will be foolish enough to follow her into the abyss ….
.
.Supporting murderous barbaric genocidal lies is exhausting …. according to the OTD bird who was mistakenly called flamingo …
Am wondering — Why ?
It does not require any independent brain activity at all …
You simply copy and post any nonsense published by leftist ‘commissions’ and so called ‘experts’
You are not required to use any critical thinking ….
You do not even have to check whether your opinions align with reality …. because reality is totally irrelevant ….
in OTD’s make believe universe .
.
.Its as simple as can be …
So —- Why is flaming OTD ‘exhausted’ … ? ? ?
Does that have any indication regarding our OTD’s real brain capabilities ????
.
.Congrats to brainless , thinking less , reality ignoring OTD for defending , no …. parroting …. excuses for REAL GENOCIDE ……
.
.ujm claims that “…. UTJ has a Rabbinic leadership of the top Gedolei Yisroel of our era. If Rabbi Goldknof said something out of line, especially in his capacity as officially representative of UTJ, which this comment was as it was made in the Knesset, then the Gedolei Rabbonim shlita would have required him to publicly retract.”
—
using ujm’s logic in the case of ….. the President of the Aguda in 1948 r’ itche maier Levin who signed on the israeli Declaration of Independence ….
If R Levin signed something out of line, especially in his capacity as officially leader of agudat yisrael, then the Gedolei Rabbonim shlita would have required him to publicly retract.”
And they did not ….
Using ujm’s logic … that proves that the gdolei rabbanim agreed with the declaration ….
hmmmm …..
.
.flamingo claims that I make ‘arab hating’ and ‘islamaphobic’ statements
she uses that accusation as a convenient excuse
to avoid an honest discussion about the real facts that are raised
reality is not ‘hating’ , reality is simply a fact ….
ignore facts at your own peril ….
.
.flamingo professes to be a jew
and a religious one ….
does flamingo know the severity of the issur of motsi shem ra ????
did flamingo ever learn the sefer of the hafets hayim in a thorough manner ????
does flamingo know that the issur of motsi shem ra is multiplied by the amount of people she is libeling ????
does flamingo know what the zohar writes about people who are motsi la’az about the collective of klal yisrael ????
is she really religious ????
is she really jewish ????
all one big mystery …..
.
.
.