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This is a very valid question.
Katan from far off chul condemned the innocent ahenu yoshvei erets yisrael to total victimhood by barbaric monsters, just to fit his narrowminded parroted ideology.
He is using divrei mussar re hitbadlut me resha’im to be halacha lema’aseh mafkir damam shel yisrael.
His thick skull cannot grasp the difference between those two totally different worlds.
The world of mussar and agada , and the world of halacha lema’aseh .
—We pray and hope that the RBSH’O will be chonen him some dei’a.
I repeat :
We are talking here about pikuach nefesh of millions of innocents , which inexplicably does not feature at all in your deliberations, which i find unforgivable.
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The following is the crux of satmar extremism –in one fell swoop , without adequate halachik deliberation whatsoever, they paskened that THERE IS NO PIKUACH NEFESH IMPERATIVE wherever the Z word is involved.
In one fell swoop they condemned eight million Jews to having no protection under our three thousand year old pikuach nefesh laws.
Babies, children , mothers , fathers , grandfathers , grandmothers.
They did not even give them a hearing , a chance to argue ,
Boom.
In one fell swoop.
No pikuach nefesh. Al pi torah – They can all die.
Their property is for the taking.
No protection.
all because of this magic Z word.
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That is THE issue where satmar nowadays diverges from the rest of klal yisrael.They took the aggadic guidance from their first rebbe , which was designed to cut them off from the zionist movement , and adapted it to halacha lema’aseh WITHOUT GOING THROUGH AGE OLD HONORED HALACHIK practice.
With the extremely sad result of megaleh panim batorah shelo kehalacha.
With the stroke of a pen they stripped millions of defenceless innocents from their halachik pikuach nefesh protection .
—And without even notifying them ….
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.What I find very difficult , is the speech Shumer gave , explaining his support of arms embargoes against Israel during a seven front war .
He sourced inter alia Satmar shitah.
Official Satmar kept quiet about that and did not protest at the usage of their shitah to deny 8 million innocent Jews living in EY, lifesaving defensive equipment.
I cannot understand how they could do that .
.Lo ta’amod al dam rei’acha does not appear in their sifre torah ???
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.According to menachem , the fact that his rebbi came out to particpate in the levaya of R Rivkin is a sure sign that the slain rosh yeshiva was ‘accepted’ in habad.
Q for him , hope he is ‘in the mood’ , or maybe better said ‘is he brave enough’ ….
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.did your rebbi come out for the levaya of his mother in law , the wife of rayats ?
If yes , is that also a sure sign that she was ‘accepted’ in habad ?
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.Was she really ‘accepted’ in habad ?
Is she mentioned in the magazine ‘derher’ [another of menachems criteria of acceptance in habad] ?
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.Is menachem honest [and brave] enough to front up ????
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We are waiting ….
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.before Israel was made there were shuls, yeshivos ect.
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is that a heter to destroy the ones built since ?
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.in every q of halacha, you must first establish what the metsiut is, afterwards research the halacha applicable to the established metsiut.
If you see the metsiut only as black and white , you miss out .
On all the shades of grey , which are a part of the metsiut.
Which invalidates any psak halacha you arrive at.
Then you sound like a chicken without a head , like katan for example.
Simple.
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We are talking here about pikuach nefesh of millions of innocents , which inexplicably does not feature at all in your deliberations, which i find unforgivable.
,
.look in chazon ish in start of YD . think siman gimmel that tinokot shenishbu is assur to hate .
look in rambam hilchot mamrim 3:3 where he says that tinikot shenishbu is mitsva to love.
you cannot paskin nowadays on basis of avot der natan.
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No Z caused the holocaust. This is utter drivel.
Some of them stood by while it was happening and some of them obstructed the hatzala.
Some of them did everything they could to save whatever they could.
Looks grey , right ? Not black and white .
Because that’s reality.
But none of them ’caused’ it.
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The difference between katan and an antisemite is marginal.Whatever the antisemite says about the Jew , katan says about the Zionist.
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.@ menachem
According to you , R Rivkin z’l was properly accepted in habad . Even after his public disagreement with your infallible rebbi.
.Accepted – like the rebbetsin of the rayats ?
Or like the eldest daughter of the rayats ?
Would you define them as ‘accepted’ in habad ?
Guessing here that menachem is ‘not in the mood’ right now ….
Am happy to hear honest assessments as response those questions .
Katan is totally off .
He is willing to accept that R A miBelz was taken and ‘fooled’ by Z propaganda … even though RAB was miles away from any connection to olam hazeh including from Z propaganda.
But he is not willing to accept that SR [and others] exaggerated about the Z in order that his followers should stay away, even though this is perfectly acceptable al pi halacha as clearly delineated in hafets haim ….
.Is it true that a habadi nowadays feels more at ease with a mehalel shabbat than with a fully frum haredi non habadi ?
I do not think safety is an issue either way.
But yiddishkait definitely is. Chinuch for children is a major factor to consider.
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Kol hanotel etsa min hazkenim eino nichshal.
.If All other matters being equal, it is a tremendous zhut to live in Gods Palace asher enei hashem mereishit shana ad ahrit shana.
To be mekayem mitsvat yishuv haarets ….But no one should make aliyah without carefully considering how this will impact his and his families’ level of yiddishkait., including in depth discussion with one’s rav who knows his situation first hand.
Israel ranks second in the world , in the “Happpiness index”.
@menachem or any other defender of habad
Our old question keeps coming back .
Is there a source , anywhere .
From torah logic or hazal that your rebbi is infallible ????If yes , could you or any other habad supporter , provide it ?
.I heard from a belzer hasid who is ne’eman alai kevei trei that rav ahron mibelz z’l said the same thing as the [fanfiction in your language] artscroll quote from y rosenblum re where the homeless Jews after the war would/ could have gone to.
Imrai Emet writes in osef mihtavim that zhuyot for jews in EY obtained by the secular is a ‘good thing’ .
So Rosenblum’s quote of R Y Kamenetski is lav davka untrustworthy.
Part of satmar tactics in debates which I have observed over the years , is the ability of shutting out uncomfortable opinions of erliche rabanim, by
1] denying the veracity of the quote, ad kedei throwing aspersions of lying on the most dependable talmidei hahamim.
2] if no 1 is impossible , denigrating the rav quoted [himself] as not erlich.
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They will resort to any of those subterfuges, as long as they do not have to admit to legitimate hilukei dei’ot between bona fide gdolei torah from both sides.
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.@yaakov yosef
Well said.
.Message to somejew, ujm and katan :
—-
There is black . There is white.There are infinite shades of grey.
Some people see only the first two.
They are missing out.
And do not merit to see the world as it really is.
And therefore live in olam hadimyon.
And cannot understand , even if they would want – the majority of people who see the world as it really is.
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Nebach.
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.Thanks to Square.
There is black. There is white.
And there are infinite shades of grey.
Some people only see the first two.
They are missing out.
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.Why do hahmei habad who were higi’u le’hora’a regard the last leader and rebbi of the habad hasidim as infallible ?
Is there any clear source for this ?
Or is this just a feeling ?
Or are they concerned that they would be considered as ‘traitors’ or ‘guilty of treason’ [like the late author of ashkavte devei rebbi] if they would give a voice to the possibility of him being fallible ?
Even Menachem who valiantly tries to defend all other habad issues , has kept on walking very far around this issue.
———-
Any response ??
.1] did the RY suffer redifot as a result of his inaction to support his rebbi ? Yes or No ?
2] Did the RY disagree with your rebbi in a disrespectful manner ? Yes or No ?
3] Is it true that rebbi / talmid disagreements are valid and can be found in gemara rishonim poskim and aharonim all thru jewish history ? Y or N ?
4] Can you – for honesty’s sake – snap out of your “busy/ offended/ not in the mood/blood libel [etc]” state, and finally provide ‘to the point answers’ to my questions ?
.
ujm:
We should all sing together the song that HaGaon HaRav Sholom Ber Sorotzkin shlit”a sang at his son’s chasuna a few weeks ago in Eretz Yisroel, together with the entire Yeshivas Ateres Shlomo and thousands of other attendees at the Chasuna:
<b>G-d is our King,
We are his servants
The holy Torah is our Law
We are loyal to it.
We do not recognize the Heretic Zionist Regime
Its laws do not apply to us
We walk in the ways of the Torah
In fire and water
We walk in the ways of the Torah
To Sanctify the Name of Heaven
==================================================LOL.
ujm wants us to follow rav sorotskin ….Is ujm USING rav sorotskin here , or
is he so taken by his new rebbi , rav sorotskin, that he encourages all of us to follow his new da’at torah ?This Q is easily proven ….
What will ujm say when rav sorotskin will suddenly advocate for voting for the knesset or voting in the WZO ….
Think we all know the answer …..
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Is Shtika kehoda’a a klal to be applied here ….
Yaakov Yosef is writing ‘to the point’.
Still waiting for Menachem ….
NARROWMINDED HAKATAN IS INVITED TO READ AND TAKE TO HEART THIS FOLLOWING POST. [from smerel]
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The Brisker Rav noted that the “State” the Zionists have achieved is the “greatest triumph of the satan since the sin of the golden calf” – [KATAN]
———
This is SHEKER GAMUR and a tremendous disgrace to the Brisker Rav and Torah true Judaism.Firstly whatever your view on Zionism is there is no way anyone can argue that they are worse than Yeruvem ben Nevat who made actual real egels and forced the majorty of Klal Yisroel to worship them. They aren’t worse than Menashe who burnt every single sefer torah in all of Eretz Yisroel (according to most opinions) and turned the Beis Hamakdush itself into a place of idol worship. They aren’t worse than the Yesvekitzia who successfully helped in the shmad of the three million people Jewish community in Russia. (The Yesvekitzia also persecuted Zionists with the same zeal as they persecuted frum people)
Secondly the Brisker Rav was of the opinion that the anti-Zionist belief that attributes the state of Israel and all of its succusses to the Sotton borders of Kefira. It elevates the Sotton to having power of a deity R”L. It is not so different (if at all) from them non-Jewish idolatrous view that all evil in the world exists because of the Satan. The Sotton does not “triumph” R’L . He does what Hashem gives him power to do.
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BESIDES, AM STILL WAITING FOR KATANS ANSWER TO MY -following – POST:
Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …
Any dr will tell you – you treat the patient according to their condition at the time of presentation.
Time to wake up to reality.
Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.
Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
..
.Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….
Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….
Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ??
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Nu , Menachem ?
.Mordechai is right.
The real hypocrisy are those lefties who suppress democracy for their own benefit , misusing the concept of democracy itself.
,I will answer your question , although you do not answer mine [besides the convenient ones]
Nor do you respond to my arguments [again, besides the ones convenient for you]
.I hear this from a trustworthy and honest habad friend of mine.
Some twenty years ago.
.Bottom line – even according to your version –
1] did the RY suffer redifot as a result of his inaction to support his rebbi ? Yes or No ?
2] Did the RY disagree with your rebbi in a disrespectful manner ? Yes or No ?
3] Is it true that rebbi / talmid disagreements are valid and can be found in gemara rishonim poskim and aharonim all thru jewish history ? Y or N ?
4] Can you – for honesty’s sake – snap out of your “busy/ offended/ not in the mood/blood libel [etc]” state, and finally provide ‘to the point answers’ to my questions ?
.
.Why is menachem only answering selected posts ?
Why is he ignoring certain ones and responding to others ?
Is it only depending on ‘his mood’ at the time ?
Or does it also have to do with the content – and whether or not a palatable response is available ?
Will we merit to receive an honest response on this one ?
Hope so ….
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.@yaakov yosef
Check again .
R YM Levin carried the title of Sar HaSa’ad [minister of social services] in the first government after the 1949 elections.
This is not hidden or secret information.
.Nu.
Where is katan ?
Opposites attract.
Both, katan and his Zionists, are ignoring the present state of their brothers and sisters , because their blind adherence to their ideology.
Waiting for a TO THE POINT answer ….
.ujm is correct.
false narrative.
.And the more of the openly kofrim that win, the more the truly confused Jews who really don’t know the difference between orthodoxy and their reform copycatters, the more those confused jews will follow those copycatters.
On your head.
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.Katan and ujm cannot stop their rambling about things WOULD have been .
They should open their eyes to the things AS THEY ARE.
—-Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …
Any dr will tell you – you treat the patient according to their condition at the time of presentation.
Time to wake up to reality.
Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.
Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
..
.Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….
Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….
Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ??
.
..
STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER ?menachem to yb:
Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ?
Y or N ?
—
Completely false. All my years in yeshiva, never heard of such a thing. Ashkavta D’Rebbi is considered one of the most respected seforim on Chabad rabbeim, quoted many hundreds of times in Chabad seforim for history and minhagim. I’ve never heard of any objection to it.=================
All of menachems years in yeshiva ….. .
Were menachems years in yeshiva before , or after the ‘herem story’ ?
We do not know menachems age, so it could be that his yeshiva years were before the RY’s disagreement with his rebbi.
According the habad sources I have consulted , the sefer ashkavte d’Rebbi is now on the same level as Rav Shaul Shimon Deutchs multi volume biography about the late rebbi of the habad.
Meaning they both are classified as ‘non allowable’ reading materiel.
.
.hello ?
@yaakov yosef
FYI.
r yishak meir levin was a full minister in israels first government after the elections of 1949.
.That wasn’t really the point as mentioned .
Just for the record .
His death was a sudden and DIRECT RESULT of the redifot.
The person doing it would probably be classified as a rotseach begrama.
But , again , that was and is not the point here.
.
.You are missing the point.
We are not taking part in a blame game – habad are bad because they murdered the RY.
Thats not the point at all.
The point is that sof kol sof the RY paid with his life for the mere fact that he respectfully proclaimed in front of everyone that in his learned opinion the rebbi of the habad hasidim is fallible and can make a mistake.
Which serves as an example and clear message for anyone else possibly entertaining similar thoughts.
Which explains very well why no one in habad itself , ever since, dared to voice any support to the possibility their leader making a mistake.
As was and still is practised in all other ‘normal’ communities , all around the globe.
Even when the evidence and plain logic overwhelmingly point to the other direction.
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.
—-
I simply cannot understand why no one engages with the substance of the argument …All they do , is , commenting as if the substance is not there at all, or is something else altogether ….
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.Katan and ujm cannot stop their rambling about things WOULD have been .
They should open their eyes to the things AS THEY ARE.
—-Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …
Time to wake up to reality, mr katan !
Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.
Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
..
.Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….
Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….
Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ??
.
..
.HaKatan is using realities from one to two hundred years ago to experiment with the lives and well being of countless yiddishe families in the twentyf irst century. .
There is no country in the world who is interested in sovereignty over EY , willing to sacrifice their own youth to keep aliens safe and secure in the face of the most barbaric and violent monsters on the face of this planet.
This is as clear as day, to anyone not blinded from seeing the sun.
Unlike katan and ujm whose extreme and inflexible brainwash are blinding them from seeing what’s obvious and right in front of their own noses.
.
.Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ?
Y or N ?
.Nu, did your friends [who you are benefitting and end up working for] the Lefties , the Reform and Conservative win ?
.
.First Menachem might be ‘too busy’ to answer.
Or ‘not in the mood’.
Then he seems to be a serial victim, nebach.
He might be ‘offended’.
Or the victim of ‘blood libels’.
He has all the specific answers at the ready – to all the specific questions.
Thats beyond doubt.
That goes without saying.
Just one problem . For some mysterious reason he is not sharing them with us.
That mysterious reason has nothing to do with the ‘palatability’ of his ‘secret’ , but ready and available answers ….
.
.@square
It’s not me who doesn’t like it.
Its gdolei yisrael who don’t like it.
They don’t like it.
They don’t like to the writers.
And the copiers.
So the complaints are at the right address.
.Menachem ignored the main thrust of my post.
I clearly wrote there that we should not use this story to throw mud.
—
A repost of my post
We should not use this story to throw mud.
We should however learn from this about the possibility within habad of someone implying that the leader of habad could be mistaken .
This RY implied it and ended up paying with his life.
The RY obviously held the rebbi from habad in high esteem .
Otherwise he would not be his hasid and attend all those public events with his rebbi.
Nevertheless , as a talmid haham who was higi’a lehora’a , in his opinion at least , said politician was not deserving to be put in herem .
He was not disrespectful.
He just held that his rebbi happened to be mistaken in this one instance , which is perfectly acceptable according to Jewish halacha and tradition.
So he abstained from the herem.
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.Could you answer the following please –
Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ? Y or N ?
Is it true that rabbi rivkin was niftar after falling from the stairs in his own home as a result of the redifot he suffered because he declined to join your maham shilo in putting this politician in herem ? Y or N ?
After you answer – honestly of course – should we talk about blood libels …..
.
.Btw. — you totally ignored the substance of my post …….
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.Think its time for square root to stop his propaganda that haredi youth should enlist, going AGAINST the clear directives of gdolei yisrael.