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I will just give the following example,
2 rabbis are applying for a Rabbinate job, One is OO and one is a YU Rabbi.
You can say the OO candidate is an Apikoras and a Koifer and denigirate him and say he really isnt orthodox
OR
You can say how great the YU candidate is, He is more qualified. Got a degree in psychology , has a great personality and will get more people to come join the Shul
People will like the YU candidate and he will get the job with a positive message , nobody was degenerated and you get the results you want without denegrating anyone
Mammale;
You missed my point, its not about if OO is Kosher, Its not kosher. We are debating the proper way to fight it. We are debating if you fight it by condeming it or showing as positive frumkite.
The Kol Korea supporters seem to think that such a document will stop OO, it wont and likely will backfire. While you will never get 100% of people to agree, positive statments will get more people to your side than negative statements will
Again
How many people have left an OO place because of the Kol Korea and went to an Agudah or similar place?
And if you want to say this is for the future, if you open a Shul near an OO place and try to convience the members to move over you will have alot more success, I can pretty much if the right rabbi is chosen you will get more than 1 to realize OO is wrong, You will get much better success.
How would you do that?
Open a shul near OO shuls, have a dynamic rabbi be the leader, have shiurim
Show the positive side of frumkite. Chabad does this and it works (I dont know if they open chabad houses near OO places) No reason the Agudah cant duplicate the Chabad House formula.
generally I like Drier wine and usually like White wine better than red.
I cant usually afford to drink the good stuff , so i rarely drink it
Avram
Again i am not talking about the leaders, i am talking about the lay people. You dont need to show Avi Weiss the beauty of torah lifestyle, you need to show the people who attend these places the beauty so they will attend your shuls and the OO places will close of their own free volution.
I do not support attacking the Avi Weisses is not because he is right, but because the lay people can get protective of their rabbi and will take an attack on him as an attack on themselves,
The difference between my approach and the Moetzes is I want to show people the postive points of view and not the negative points of view
Rather than condemn these places , why not open an alternate place instead and show them the true torah lifestyle.
I eat sushi with a fork, I can never figure out how to use chopsticks.
I will only drink the wine you touched if Its good stuff, I dont drink malaga or creme concord grape. generally all wine from new York is garbage and undrinkable
I dont think Avi Weiss cares about the Kol Korea and its not about him, Its about the lay people who might attend the Hebrew Institute of Riverdale or any other OO place (I dont know of any others except for the Hebrew Institute).
The lay people might be able to be convicned, but you need to talk to them in a postive way and not a negative way
It is true many times tough love works, but many times it not only fails , it backfires.
Tough love only works if the person receiving the tough love decides at some point they need the love and validation of the person giving the tough love. if the person who got the tough love decides they dont need the person who gave the tough love, it fails. and if the person who got the tough love thrives or believes he is more successful than the giver , it backfires.
bold is mine-29
There is an old adage, you catch more flies with Honey than vinegar.
Joseph , what is the Status of a jew who attends The Hebrew institue of Riverdale as a member who sits in the pews?
Most Kosher sushi is either Tuna or Salmon
Thank you MDG and SL
There are several kinds of Sushi, There is a Sushi roll which is sushi rolled with Rice in seaweed, there is suhsi placed on a some rice and no seaweed and just plain sushi no rice or seaweed
Avram,
It has been interepred that “now we know whose wine we can drink and who can be part of a minyan”
It seems here people dont get my point, Its not what was said, but how it was said and if it was nessasry to say such a thing at all especially since they pose no threat to charedi judaism at all. I doubt OO even exists in lakewood or Monsey
Um what? Are you kidding? You’re insinuating that the chofetz chaim didn’t follow b’feirush halacha?
There is a well known story of a bocher who was caught smoking in the yeshiva on Shabbos. He was called in the Chofetz Chaim and what do you think the Chofetz Chaim did? Do you think he yelled at him, YOU KOIFER , you are being kicked out of the yeshiva and its assur to drink wine you touched and you are no longer part of the minyan?
No the chofetz chaim didnt say a word, He just cried into the bochers hands and said Shabbos and cried some more and said shabbos and the bocher got the message
There is a differnce between Avi Weiss and other leadership of OO and just a layperson.
if They wanted to condem Avi Weiss and say you cant drink his wine that is one thing. However if you say you cant drink the wine of someone who jsut happens to go to Hebrew Institute of Riverdale thats differnet , if someone goes to such a shul you need to act very differently . The lay person are not degenerating the torah, they are just following their leaders.
Sushi
Syag
Rather than denouncing other people, One should improve oneself. You dont win friends and infuence people by denouncing others, However you do win friends and influence people by showing people the beauty of the torah and how loving it is.
A simple example is Zaka, everyone knows there is tension in Israel between Charedim and non-chareim, but almost everyone in Israel respects Zaka.
People dont want to hear negative mudslinging, they want to hear positive messages.
Having a minyan and then telling someone they are not part of it, doesnt have any positive results, only creates resentment
Please tell me where the Chofetz Chaim did not count a jew who as part of a Minyan or did not drink wine touched bya jew
The Agudah seems more concerned about OO than the average person and its a good diversion from real issues that need to be addressed to their own flock
the RCA did not put out a Kol Korea, It was a statement, but not a Kol Koreh in the same meaning as an Agugah Kol Koreh
spell-edit, for the two year olds among us
The more modern communities and Rabbis will ignore because they do not issue Kol Koreh’s. The communities dont work that way.
Rav Schecter cannot issue a psak and excepct every MO to follow it without question like in the Charedi communities
Denouncing other people is not a way to create Achdus
In general the new custom in the US it to put a Pumpkin or some other Halloween symbol on your doorstep so people know to go to that house and if there is no symbol kids are supposed to go to another house with it.
That being said, Kids dont go trick or treating in my neighborhod
13th Ave in Borough Park Brooklyn is where you want to go
Joking aside, why does it matter how a Shidduch is made, as long as its made and everyone is happy
I think its Stop and Shop has this amazing fancy breads that kosher, Might not be Yoshon or Pas Yisroel, but it has a O-U and the breads are amazing
If you are going to get into Kiruv, you have to know what you are doing and what the likely expected outcomes might be. If you kiruv someone and expect they become a Brisker Chassd, perhaps you should enter another arena as you are likely to fail
Ah – goo – nah
Lung cancer is a rare disase among non-smoker. Its true not all smokers get lung cancer and not every lung cancer sufferer smoked. but it is likley a lung cancer patient smoked
The Gedolim already banned Bacon
Nowadays the majority of Lung Cancer patients are women R’L (meaning that more women smoke than men)
Asian society extolls learning perhaps even more than jewish cuture
Smoking is not inherantly masculine, in fact there are cigatettes brands directly marketed towards women.
That being said, Nobody should smoke and the gedolim should have assured a long time ago that nobody should smoke
I think some Rabbanim are just against Sushi because they dont belive jews should eat “Goyish” foods. c
For those who must have fish on Shabbos and want fish without bones sushi is perfectly fine. We dont eat it in my house normally because its too expensive, but thats a financial issue, not a hashkafa issue.
If you eat Sushi on friday night or Shabbos Afternoon, it has the taam of shabbos it also has the taam of shabbos. Gefilte is a “food” created by people who did not know what real food tasted like
My ancestors came though Ellis Island, not Castle Garden. I am not that long in the US
My Zeidy Z”L used to ask? Are you Jewish or Galitzianer?
My family has been in the US for over 100 years, but before that Galizaner
No opinion on Ptcha, It was like an exotic food to me, I tried it once , didnt like or dislike it and just moved on . Would I try it again , not really but nobody I know even knows how to make it anyway and I dont even think many even know what it is.
I never even heard of Ptcha until a few years ago, Ive never seen it served
I only had Ptcha once in my life. Its not usually eaten in Yeshivish communities
People choose to or choose not to get offended.
There isnt enough Bait in the world to catch a gefiltle Fish
Alot of people dont like Sushi and I get that, I have a friend who calls it “Bait” and I’ve heard people express their extreme dislike of it. I really dont care. I am not offended if someone says Yuch to Sushi or anything else I like.
He was not a spy, but the gist of the Shaliah was a guy who claimed he was Charedi didnt eat Chulent, that sort of makes sense, not if if he was jewish. Someone who was brought up yeshivish should be expected to know Yeshivish customs
It would be no differnet if someone claimed they were Satmar and didnt speak any Yiddish or didnt know how to dress like a Chassid.
There is more to that story
The man who did not like Chulent was a Charedi bocher from an eastern European country whose backround could not be checked, He went to an Averch and did not eat the chulent, The avereich was afraid that the man was a min and thought the man ruined his wine. He then asked Rav Elyshiv what to do.
They could not figure out his exact backround since he was from some eastern european country (I am assuming it was from one of the former soviet union countries)
the Challah that is burned is holy, however the bread that is yellowish and braded with a fluffy dough and usually used for shabbos is not.