Board of Park Commissioners in Kenosha, Wisconsin is rewriting their policies now to allow Chabad Lubavitch to place an eight-foot tall menorah in Civic Center Park on Chanukah, December 4-13.
The request was initially denied because there was no policy in place that allowed a religious symbol in a city park, reported Kenosha News.
“It’s a symbol that’s been placed in close to 1,000 locations in the United States,” Rabbi Tzali Wilschanski of Kenosha’s Congregation Bnai Tzedek Chabad said. “It’s something that’s not new to America or the state of Wisconsin.”
The new policy will allow religious symbols to be placed in the park as long as permission is obtained from the city thirty days prior to its placement. In addition, a $50 application fee will apply and a $1 million insurance policy will be necessary.
(Source: Lubavitch)
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30 Responses
Every year I cringe when chabad finds it neccessary to flaunt menorah’s accross the entire USA. Where oh where does it say anywhere in shulchan oruch that a 8,10 12 feet menorahs have to be placed amongst goyim? The chiuv of pirsumei nissa is required in ones personal house. They do more harm than good by placing menorahs in public domain.
Rav Mechel,
why do you care?
Are you embarrassed?
Be proud!
Way to go Lubavitch!! Major accomplishment!!
Maybe they will also allow you guys to convince everyone about Melech Hamoshiach too!!
Thats great!
Now Jews in Wisconsin will also be reminded about Chanunkah. You are doing a great job!!
proud, I will tell you why I care. For thousands of years we have practiced our religion without shoving it into the goyims faces. They don’t like it.So why should we intimidate them? Instead of telling me to be proud. Please give me an explanation why for thousands of years we were never required to erect menorahs all over the place. Comes along chabad and they cause a stir and a rokus with the menorah dispaly. One could practice judaism according to halacha and display your menorah at your window or door post. Nowhere does it mention that menorahs be erected in public places, besides the torah of chabad.
On a side note , whats the closest religion to Judasim? Chabad.
I applaud the work Lubavitch does worldwide.
Kol hakovod and more power to people willing to get their hands greasy doing “our” dirty work.
This is such an old debate, it’s well past all interest.
Rav Mechel,
I have a business partner from CA who is a BT. He, his wife and five kinderlach are frum today because of a menorah put up in some derfel in CA. Its a looong story but it all started when they saw the chanukah licht on a public menorah.
So, are you gonna tell me that was some goy menuval thinks is more important than all the Torah and mitzvos this family will do lidorey doirois?? And his is not the only story, there are others ask any lubavitch rov and they will tell them to you. I travel for business and have heard dozens.
so again, if you think yiddishe neshomos that dont live in lakewood and boro park are are more important than some goys feelings, nu you agree with them and if you think that offending a goy is more important then bney Avrohom, Yitzchok and Yakkov, bistu dee shvantz.
On a side note, lubavitchers are our brothers and your joke was NOT funny, besides that its older than you… I heard it as a kid in Lakewood 35 years ago.
Yochi, yes I am concerned about offending the goy. Do you know why, because we are in golus.And for all you chabadskers who think you own this country is an outrage. When you guys go on national TV, when you guys have rappers who perform for shmutzige audiences,when you guys shove our religion in the face of the USA its wrong and shameful. I don’t want to hear this pot of baloney that someone will come closer to yidishkeit because they saw a 10 foot menorah in the middle of nowhere. There are plenty of other kiruv orginizations who bring people back to their roots without these schemes. If chazal wanted people to come back to yiddishkeit, they would of instituted that we place menorahs all over the place. Its not pirsumei nisa.
Why do you think it is your g-d given right to do this in a country where we are guests?
By the way, I don’t care how old that joke is, it is true. I don’t live in Lakewood and when chabad are mekarev people for some reason they are mekarev them to chabad so there is truth to the joke.
Hey Mechel, first of all lets take it down a notch, its getting stuffy here.
Why do you keep on saying “you guys” as if I am Lubavitch.. I said my partner became frum through chabad, which by the way proves you wrong once again, since he is NOT a Lubavitcher yet became frum through them, opposite of what you said.
Lastly, you are embarresing yourself by saying “there are other kiruv orgs” because you know (or are just living in denial) that if you add up all the kiruv orgs and times it by ten, we still have not acomplished what chabad has in the past 60 years!! They were doing kiruv when our gedolim were still against it and even now they have thousands of shluchim around the world, in places we would never have the guts to set up shop. I know this for a fact since I travel 75 times a year to little cities and countries.
As a boy who grew up in Lakewood and boro park, I am proud to say that I have seen lubavitch in action in about 30 countries (they are located in 80 countries) and they do good work.
You dont like em, you want to be a misnaged, that is fine. ubber nem nisht avek dee gootskayt vus zey tuen, far dir un mir!!
“RAV” Mechel, I must agree with you that Chabad is the closest thing to true Judaism. Lets see in the Yeshiva of B’nai Brack the MACHLIEKES there is very fay from Judaism the electins in Batar Israel showed what some other groups are like. So your right Chabad IS the closest thing to true Judaism
Why are you ignoring my concern? Instead of rabbling about the shiluchim in Bombay or New Zealand answer my one single question I have raised. If we are in golus and we are guests in this country why is it our right to display our religion in public? Why are all gedolim against this act? Granted, they are a registered trademark but why are you not concerned that all this display of “we can do what we want” attidude will not back fire?
reb mechel that is a racist comment it’s a bizayon and you should apologize to chabad and do teshuva to hashem for speaking like that about klall yisrael
rav mechel from lakewood east don’t switch the topic the fact is you were mivazeh a great part of klall yisrael, ask mechila.
to Reb Mechel,
i would like to remind you that originally the mitzva of menorah was in front of your door “outside”. and the only reason it was stopped was because we were – in the past – afraid of the goyim. i’m sure you are aware that in this country as well as most, we don’t have much to fear. This country was founded on “Religious freedom”. and this shliach has been treated with proper dignity just like any other citizen. so now we should be mefarsem this nes just like in times of old and with all the modern tools possible.
Rebbenyu,
Lubabs are doing it for 25-30 years already, where pray tell did it backfire??
Also, which gedolim are on record against it and for what reason?
Soon you will tell me not to put my menorah next to the window because the goyim dont like it. I have had a goy tell me to my face not to wear a yarmulka since “it p… him off”. so, should I stop wearing a kapul, since it upsets some goyim and we are only tennants here?
Besides, the only people I see getting upset about the menorah are some left wing Jews, not your average joe goy. Why dont you do what I did, speak to these lubobs and get real numbers as to what is coming out of it.
Where we like it or not they have mekareved tens of thousands to yiddishkayt, not only in New Zeland and Bombay, but there is a chabad right outside Lakewood, ir hakoidesh. When you and me start being mikarev them, then we will tell chabad, gey faifen, until then, I dont feel like I have the zechus to do that, but you “REB” Mechel may feel otherwise, it is after all America, land of the free and home of the brave (ooops, that may mean that they can also put up a menorah… lets go back to der heym…)
Yochi, live him alone, it’s not worth the time.
He doesn’t have a question; he has an answer already and tires to pick the right question to it.
From psychological point, I would say it’s a jealousy.
Rav Mechel – If you really want to know the answer to your question, go to 770, find a knowledgeable person and ask-how, what and why.
I’m sure they’ll show you Lubavitcher Rebbe Sichos (unless you don’t think he’s a Godol) about it where he explains clearly about Shulchan Aruch and Chazal point of view.
If It’s too far you, then you can ask Rabbi Avrohom Hertz 718-232-3839, from Chabad of Bensonhurst or Rabbi Aron Ginsberg, Chabad of Boro Park 718-853-9854.
Mechel is correct. This past December some shliach made a massive chillul hashem that was all over the national media when he tried to force the Seattle Airport to install a Menorah, but the airport instead removed the Xmas tree to even things out. That of course outraged the whole country and made Jews look terrible and caused a massive chillul hashem that was all over the media, press and talk radio. Of course the shliach started crying he didn’t “mean” to force the Xmas tree to be removed, but that was the natural result of his actions, despite all the denials by his Chabad buddies.
As an aside, how come whenever a Chabad issue comes up on YW all of a sudden we see a bunch of new usernames promoting Chabad? Eh?
Oh, Rav Mechel, you should learn Heilchaltzu, by Rabbi Shalom Ber Sheerson (Rashab 4th Rebbe of Chabad). It is about Ahavas yisroel, and it explains clearly, where your feelings are coming from.
As far as goym being upset, let me know and I’ll give you some places where you’ll see for yourself when 100s goym are applauding to the shliach for what he does, on Chanukah and Sukkos.
Specially that most people in that place are not Chabad and use the Sukkah to eat lunch in front of big city hall.
Mechel happens to be correct over here. Last December a Rabbi in Seattle tried to force the Seattle Airport to put up a Menorah by threatening legal action. Instead they removed the Xmas tree causing a massive chillul hashem. It was all over the media and radio giving all Yidden a black eye. That Rabbi then attempted to defend himself claiming that wasn’t his intent, as if that excused his chillul hashem.
Proud, this country was founded on religious freedom. The definition, your will to practice your religion freely. To take advantage of it and flaunt it in everyones faces where ever they go is wrong. Just curious if the Muslims were to hang huge korans all over the place during their month of Ramadan , would you be fine with that, or would you under your breath mutter, why are they doing this in a public place?
Yav what ever your name is. I take it you are a lubab.I don’t need to ask any of those people for the simple reason they are nogeia bedovar.I follow Shulchan Aruch and I learn the halochos of chanukah. I don’t start making my own peshat up .I follow chazal and I place it where it is supposed to be placed.World Jewry ( excluding lubavitch) listens to shulchan aruch. For some reason , lubavitch has to do different then the Hamon Am.
And Yochi you are either not very smart or have drunk too much wine. My point was the fact that a huge menorah in a public domain generates anymosity.If you remember the scenerio last year at Seattle airport. Some people were aufully upset.It has not backfired yet but it will.Because we are way too comfortable in this country and some people don’t like that.I prefer to be low key and be oivad hashem in a bakovod dige way.
Rav Mechel Writes:
“Yochi, yes I am concerned about offending the goy. Do you know why, because we are in golus.”
Yes, if we are Golus, then we do flash in the eyes of the Goyim the three footed Chandeliers hanging in seven places in the house, and keep the drapes open, so when the Goyim ride by and see the million dollar homes, and the impeccable furniture, doesn’t it take out their eyes with envy?
I have a gentile neighbor who often remarks to me, “Those guys (Jews) with the ten kids living so well, there must be something going on” And you know exactly what he is referring to.
It’s not the Menorah that makes him hate!!!
And besides, let’s face it. Those who are building the multi million dollar houses, are they truly awaiting the imminent arrival of “Moshiach”??. I say firmly “definitely not”. They are building as if they will be in the good USA for a thousand years. They are repeating the same mistake our brothers and sisters made in Spain, Portugal and Germany. Believe you me; the Jews in Germany were economically far stronger than in the USA, they owned heavy industry, etc. and in the end….
For some strange reason, Hashem Yerachem, there is such hatred to Lubavitch, “Sinas Chinom”. There isn’t a thing that Lubavitch does which is not met with criticism.
I once heard a Litvak criticizing Lubavitch as to why they run around learning “Tanya” with everyone, etc. So I said to him, OK, you are against Tanya, but “Chumash and Rashi” you certainly admit that it is good thing to learn with a fellow Jew who doesn’t know it, or is still not frum. So, why don’t you get up Shabbos afternoon and learn with Jews Chumash and Rashi?
But the answer is “that you want to sleep and “chropa” Shabbos after the Chulent, aii geshamk, a machaye.” However, the Lubavitcher after working hard a whole week runs around Shabbos afternoon with “Mesiras Nefesh” because that is what Lubavitch is all about, “Mesiras Nefesh” for another Jew, and that’s what the Bal Shem taught, “That often a Jew comes down to this world for seventy or eighty years, and the whole purpose of his neshama coming down in this world, is to do one, I repeat, one favor to another fellow Jew. And “Kal V’chomer” to do a spiritual favor to another fellow Jew. And since, deep inside your heart it bothers you that you don’t have that “Mesiras Nefesh”, therefore you can’t stand a Lubavicher.
Dig deep into your soul and you will realize that I am correct in my assessment!
Hashem should help that the “Sinas Chinum” should be uprooted from our hearts!!
Hey mechel, wow you have such concerns for your goyishe neighbors in this temporary world. I wonder if they care about how you feel about placing x-mas trees all over the place. You reek hatred for Lubavitch so much that you have become ashamed of your own religion. And of course most of these BT’s become Chabad, what else, Misnagdim?
Maybe if you got your hands on them first they will be like you. But thats an oxy moran you are not capable. Its quite obvious that you are extremely jeoulous of their work. But its okay being just an “ordinary Jew”. Not everyone can be extra ordinary and do what Chabad does. Not even me. And jeoulosy leads to hatred.
Mechel,
I dont think that I have anything to write to you any more, since the Lubobs got in on the convo and have said it all.
The one thing that I cant get (& I reluclantly, may have to agree with the, that you are stam a chabad hater) is that, they tell you about dozens or hundreds of neshomos and your answer is the goiys feelings? How low have we fallen? The goiys feelings are more important than being mikarev the children of Avrohom, Yitzchak and Yakkov?? I would say that one mitzvah done by a Yid iz more tayyer bay der Aibishter than all the goiyishe feelings in the world!!
Mechel, strange as this sounds, but it is not the goyim who are being bothered by Public menorahs, they are tolerant of most religions. It is our own people, frum people who are supposed “g-d fearing jews” (not so g-d fearing afterall.)
You are right, this is the golus and it is people like you holding back the Geulah.
And apparently Yiddishkeit for you falls into the same category as the muslim religion. How can you even put the 2 in the same sentence? And one more thing, If you were to go on a business trip to some hick town, wouldn’t it warm your heart and make you feel at home to see a beautiful menorah on display? I will be Dan lkaf zchus and say yes. Unless you are a self hating jew, not just Chabad.
Mechel,
If a Chabad chossid is drowning, would you save him, or he’s just a goy (in the religion closest to Judaism) which is not worth the risk to save him?
shturem, in response to your question, I would save any human being.
sruly, I am no self hating jew. I am proud of my religion and serve hashem with dignity. With all your accusations, not one of you have attempted to provide me the reason why this is permitted. If this is the ratzon hashem, why arent other sects doing the same? I do not appreciate their work. Because they focus on the wrong aspects in life.They consider their rebbe moshiach and that is kefirah gomur.Where are their yeshivos that can proudly show young bochurim learning an entire day Torah, besides Tanya? Where are their gedolim? Why are young boys busy going on telethons and other shows and the orginization encouraging it?
to mechel,
first of all there are many minhagim, just because some do this and others do something else doesn’t mean that they’re not all rotzon hashem. second, our gedolim are on shlichus and don’t go around flaunting their GADLUS. thirdly, if you would be a little openminded you would be able to talk to lubavitchers and you would realize that we don’t just learn tanya we learn gemara and poskim just as deep as any brisker!!! to be honest there are many who aren’t the biggest lomdim but that exists in every
chelek of klal yisroel. and in addition to all that, we learn chassidus, just as many learn mussar(you probably don’t, for you wouldn’t be filled with such hatred. you would be a little refined even in disagreement) . what’s the difference? you just sit and scream that we learn tanya all day. so i’ll scream that you just learn mussar all day. and both statements are completely untrue.
about us being kofrim, do you eat the o-u hechsher or any other hachsher for that matter including satmar? they all use lubavitcher mashgichim. but when it’s convenient we are kofrim, but when it’s not, you rely on us. have a good shabbos
p.s. goyim hate jews. you hate lubavitchers!!!!! do you see the equivalent?????!!!!!!
Rav Mechel’s hate, which is slowly unraveling, knows no bounds.
I will bet you that he comes somwhere along the line from Chassideshe blood; as it is written “Meharseich U’machriveich Memaich Yatzaioo”. Just like the “Yevzektia’ in former Soviet Union, who oppressed religious Jews, as no other, many of them came from Chasidishe backgrounds.
The “Gra’a” ZT”L and the “Baal Hatanya” ZT”L have long made peace in “Gan Eden” but Reb Mechel preferrs to perpetuate the hatred, as “Avigder Der Pinsker” in the times of the “Gr”a” ZT”L. We all know that “Avigder Der Mooser” ecame “Megulgel” in a dog…..
Hashem should send Reb Mechel, Der Farbitterter, a “Taharas Halev” and he should stop “hating” other Jews with such venom. Hatred leads to cardiac problems, as it is well known.
Yochi “Redt Tzu Der Zah”. Kul Tuv