There is a store located at 1632 Coney Island Avenue – directly across from Yeshiva Chaim Berlin – which sells Shaitels (wigs for women).
In the front window of the store, there are four, large, inappropriate, photos of women – with the point being that it should attract a persons attention and look.
When approached nicely by the Yungerleit to remove the photos, the owner answered that “this is not Bnei Brak”.
I don’t want to further delve into this mans other excuses, and answers which were all filled with Chutzpah, but I am requesting that until the Pritzus photos are removed from the store windows, no one from our community should enter this store.
Filled with shame, and embarrassment that I needed to write this letter – but felt it was necessary due to Kavod Hatorah,
Rav Aaron M. Schecter, Rosh Yeshiva Chaim Berlin.
that is ridiculous that they show these pics!! The whole pt in shaitels is for tznius reasons. to use pritzus for tznius sounds a bit lk an oxymoron
A similar story with R’ Avraham Shor Shlita
with a lingerie store on ave M
he had approached the owners in a very nice manner and asked them to at least frost the windows
the owners said the same thing its not Bnie Brak
the community banned that store and the owners obliged!!
as far as ” this is not bnie brak”
its very simple!
you open a store in our community esp. when your customers will be from that same area, you should at least try to respect our wishes.
esp when its right across from a yeshiva.
I have lived in that area for a long time and wish it to remain such.
What is the name of the store?
The original says that the pictures are of *faces* of women. Generally, full-faces can be seen in public.
Can anyone verify if the pictures are of inappropriately-dressed women, or are they of faces (which, presumably showcase the shaitels)?
How about a boycott for the obscene prices they charge
# 4 Why are you questioning R’ Aron Schecter????
I hope that all the usual cynical, nasty comments will not be made. To be Marbeh Kedusha in the world harms no one and benefits everyone…
There are 4 pictures of woman with wigs. However the audacity that the man has to come into our neighborhood and refuse to bend upon the request of other people, whom for whatever reason are offended by the pictures, with the reason that this is not Bnei Brak, (and therefore I can do whatever I want?)
is reason enough for us not to frequent his store.
Why are you questioning R’ Aron Schecter????
Did I question him?? I asked what the pictures were of. Please show me where I questioned him?
You are so right!When the whole sheitel dillema surfaced about 2 years ago, people said that its not just a probelm with AVODO ZARA, but the prices ARE SHFICHAS DOMIM!
we must be religous all over. not just in bnei brak.
For the sake of accuracy:
1 – There is no mention that the person was approached nicely.
2 – There is no mention of the man offering other excuses.
3 – The letter refers to the “pritzus”, not to the “pritzus photos”, a subtle yet important distinction.
4 – The letter was written for the “kavod of ameilei haTorah”, no mention of “kavod haTorah”.
Hey Wolf, by you questioning what type of picture is causing the problem, indicates some doubt in your mind that if it is a picture of the face itself is no big deal. Keep quiet, and if a person of a stature as of Rav Shechter finds it inapropiate , so be it. Dont start making diukim. Thats all.
#4, I beleive that I can show you where one would think that you seem to question Rav Aharon. You write “Generally, full-faces can be seen in public”. The insinuation seems to be that if it were indeed only faces that you would then feel, regardless of Rav Schechters opinion’ well then what is the big deal.
My wife recently bought a sheitel from this store. When she went back to the store to have some work done on the sheitel, I took her and I waited for her in my car. Therefore, I have seen the pictures in the window. They show attractive, younger women from the neck up wearing stylish wigs.
For the record, you often see younger women looking like this at smachos.
Perhaps we should mimic the Moslems and go to veils!
I wonder if Rav Schechter indeed wrote this letter, given the poor English it contains. For example, it should be man’s, not mans. There are a number of other grammatical errors in the post.
Surely a Rosh Yeshiva would not post a letter with grammatical errors.
Bombard them with phone calls. Call 718 677 6600. Maybe that will make them cave in to the pressure.
“Please show me where I questioned him?”
reb wolf: it DID strongly appear that you were questioning him
first you gave a psak “Generally, full-faces can be seen in public.”
then you supported your psak with reasoning: “faces (which, presumably showcase the shaitels)
and you want to know if the pictures were of faces (which you suggest they probably were, since the original article stated so).
leading to the inference that you would question R’ Schecters psak if they were indeed faces. why else would it make any difference to you?? why else would you present what you hold to be the Halachah?
maybe there is a different interpretation but you sure were shouting out some loud implications there.
i think the problem is tznius!!! pictures of women-im sure who are very attractive-faceing chaim berlin yeshiva?!!?? what has this world come to?!?!?
and how is this problem shfichas domim? i think you missed the boat-tznius is the issue not money!
I don’t live in Brooklyn, so perhaps someone can explain this to me:
The store is selling wigs. The store owner has photos of women in wigs. Are the women scantily-clad? To re-iterate Wolf’s question, what is inappropriate about the pictures? Perhaps someone can go look and report back.
Whether only the face or the whole body is displayed is irrelevant. Other than one’s own wife, it is osur to gaze at another women’s face. This not a “frumkeit”, see Shulchan Aruch Evan Haezer siman 21. The pictures placed are probably of beautiful women’s faces, used primarily to draw and attract attention. We are fortunate that there are still gedolim who have the backbone to protest – when necessary.
It’s like the new clothing store on 13th Avenue.
They did the dressing room front of store When windows are glass from top to bottom. It’s like here I am trying on clothing center of BP.
Apprently VAAD Hatznius made them frost the windows.
You people all missed the boat here…..
No one would complain to him if his store was on Avenue J and East 13th Street.
The fact is that the store is DIRECTLY opposite a Bais Medrash.
That is why he was asked nicely to remove it. He chose to be an azus ponim……
He wants to “play the game”….
Kudos for YW for posting this imperative story.
“Is the Decree, therefore, addressed to women who should no longer enter the store?
But what’s wrong with other women looking at pictures of other women?”
Because the store is putting pritzus in our faces, the women are forbidden to go in.
And to answer your question (with no point), there is no issur with women looking at women at all. The problem is that he has four large signs plastered directly opposite the windows of a bais medrash.
Let the owner put the photos inside the store. Noone will have any complaints.
# 12 I am not clear as to the entire meaning of your post, but I would like to clarify a number of points.
You write: “There is no mention that the person was approached nicely” — The letter DOES mention that Avreichim were mevakeish that the pictures be removed. Let us please assume that the ne’imas of the Torah they learn guided their actions and speech.
Then you write: “There is no mention of the man offering other excuses.” — The Rosh Yeshivah DID clearly describes the “azus” with which he replied. He also indicated that it was not the only brazen answer he supplied.
Then you say: “The letter refers to the “pritzus”, not to the “pritzus photos”, a subtle yet important distinction.” — The original letter which one – unfortunately can read by clicking on the image above – clearly states “large pictures”. The Rosh Yeshivah then goes on to call these pictures “pritzus.”
Finally you mention: “The letter was written for the “kavod of ameilei haTorah”, no mention of “kavod haTorah”.” — The letter mentions the “ta’am haTorah” in our midst and the “azus” of the answer to “bnei Torah of high stature.” What is kovod haTorah if not the honor we give to the bnei Torah?
# 15 The letter was written in loshon haKodesh. I know neither who translated it NOR who gave permission to YW to publish it. He/she is responsible for the bad grammar.
Please notice the Rosh Yeshiva’s caring tone. Even though this individual ignored the pleas of his potential customers and next-door neighbors, he only asked “the Yeshivah Neighborhood” to refrain shopping their UNTIL the pictures are removed.
Neve aliza, is your brain void of substance? The point is that there are inapropiate pictures in the window accross the street from the yeshiva.
We are not debating whether a women can look at a picture of another women. Phaleeze.
YW Editor left out a few very important words in his “synopsis”.
The letter in Hebrew states to remove the “Pritzus MiNeged P’Nei Heichal Hayeshiva.” To remove the Pritzus from opposite the Yeshiva building.
It seems to me that Rav Aharon’s objection was the store’s location and proximity, and that the photos were facing the Yeshiva itself. It seems likely that if they had objected to such a store that was around the corner, Rav Aharon would not have said anything except, “Go a different way if it bothers you.”
Editors Note: The “synopsis” was written by YWN. The Rosh Yeshiva only wrote a letter in Lashon Kodesh.
Then I think you should post his orginal letter, so that we can see what he actually said, rather than your “interpretation” of what he said that contained grammatical errors.
Editors Note: I’m not sure what website you are reading, but if it’s Yeshiva World News – the letter has been posted IN the story since it was posted a few hours ago.
Is that why the ads from Yeshivas in the neighborhood publicising the honorees at annual dinners do not show the picture of the Mrs. when they are honoring a Mr. & Mrs? Well, I remember when Rav Moshe sat with his wife at the same table at a simcha and I have the picture to prove it. Where is Shlomo HaMelech when you need him!
Some people are commenting based on a common misconception that tznius is a bunch of lines. In reality anything that will attract men’s attention is assur. Therefore, dressing pretty is fine, dressing attractive is treif gamur.
By the way its not Bnei Brak rather Brooklyn and then what? whats the heter are they frumer in Bnei Brak more than here are we less mechuyov in tznius?
Furthermore, histaklus benashim (who are an erva, which most jewish women are) is an issur deoraisa according to some rishonim (R’ Yonah if I remember correctly), in addition to a violation of vinishmartem milol davar raah. The poskim hold that high quality pictures which are as clear as many of these type of pictures are would also be included in these issurim. These are not “Bnei Brak” chumros. These are very basic rules of Yiddishkiet & kedushas yisroel.
Its about time that we stop using stores that advertise in such inappropiate ways!There are quite a few “frum stores” on Coney Island between J and K and O and P that also deserve this boycott.In the 1930’s frum yiddin only bought in shomer shabbos stores,maybe in 2008 we should only buy in stores that advertise APPROPRIATLEY!!!
Do we know for sure that Reb Aaron was involved directly or was it done through a middle man’ where he “reported back” to the RY?
AND for the general public: Those pictures arent real women it’s done through a computer program, and you can’t blaim the owner to try to commercial the european goods through a couple of pictures- of dumbies dressed with wigs on!
As of now (Thurs. 4:30 pm) the pictures are …
Maybe YW should email the “synopsis” to the owner!!!
anybody who questions the psak of a gadol like reb ahron should be put in cherem! OSSER LEHARAR ACHAROV!
I am wondering, did this rosh yeshiva approve of posting this here? This letter was mailed out to the members of his yeshiva. It was not posted in newspapers, etc. This is a “boycott”, not a “ban”. If you want to do business in our community, you need to respect our sensitivities.
you totally missed the point! those pictures are a michshul to men and boys who happen to be learning across the street- and walking passed- and driveing past!
#15 – Noone is saying women should wear veils, and noone is saying that women shouldn’t shop or feel good about themselves. However, it is with good reason that at these “smachos” that “younger women” go to dressed like this, there are mechitzos for a reason. These younger women are not invited to parade around the yeshiva dressed like this. Once outside yeshiva, it may be up to the bochrim to protect themselves from outside influences, however, you would that when in yeshiva they would be somewhat protected.
Also, regardless of whether R’ Ahron wrote the letter himself, he never gets involved in these types of things and for him to allow the yeshiva to distribute this letter with his signature on it, it must really bother him.
This letter was meant for the avreichim of a particular yeshiva. Let us all shtel tsu to be counted amongst the Bnei Torah. Ashrei chelkam and Ashrei chelkainu. If we are not personally on that madreiga, let us at least aspire to attain this madreiga. We can all use improvement. The Rosh Yeshiva is setting a course for us.
Firstly, our Heilige Nashim Tzidkanios do not need to see PRITZUSS even though they are women.
Secondly, the idea of a boycott only works if the customers are the ones boycotting. Of cource this Rosh Yeshiva meens that the women should not patronize this store for as long as it takes till he feels compelled to listen to Daas Torah, even outside of Bnei Brak, and remove those pictures.
If the Gadol Hador so paskened, so it is. The Rosh Yeshiva Shlita is 100% correct, and it ges without saying.
Pritzus is the biggest problem our dor faces. There is no heter for a man to go ”check it out” as someone postulated above 1. You can be completely somech on the Rosh Yeshiva and 2. Its assur to look at.
And the fact that this type of pritzus is seen at simchas is no heter for it to continue to be propogated. We should use the Rosh Yeshivas initiative to start cracking down on pritzus anywhere in our daled amos.
By the way, there are still plenty of ‘pure inocent Bachurim’ who deffenitly should not have to see super sized, crystal clear, photos of …. women.
We all know that this type picture is meant to draw the attention of the passerby. Well not all passerby need be subject to view these pictures.
and how about the jeish presses advertisments of the wigs.? Have you ever seen those lately.
What an idiot! Why is the jerk trying to disenfranchise his own customer base?????????
This is not an issue that everyone should have an opinion on. A Godol has given his p’sak. Whether you agree with it &/or understand it, it makes no difference. We have to listen – that’s how a Yid lives.
I don’t understand why YW is even allowing all of the “blogger poskim” to give their p’sakim on a matter that a Godol has aready paskened.
I’m happy that the Rosh Yeshiva took a stand with such a statement. unfortunately that is not always the case especially when it comes to issues like these. We all need to strengthen our tzniyus, the process never ends and this situation and those described in other stores is a huge step in the wrong direction.
GET THE PICTURE ,AN UPSCALE FRAME SHOP THAT IS ACCROSS THE STREET ,WOULD NOT FRAME THOSE PICTURES
Do you mean ‘GET THE PICTURE’ an upscale frame shop…..
#22 (frd) I know of which clothing store you are refering to and the windows are NOT frosted and the dressing room is all the way in the back.
Okay here goes, those who dont care what Rav Schecter wrote, do what you want, look were you want. Scream holler that you know better, knock yourself’s out.The rest of us who follow das torah whatever it might be will not be midagdig what Rav Schecter saw, who wrote it, what the store keeper told him.Simple the pictures are right outside the yeshiva and he felt it was in appropriate for the pictures to be there were bocharim go back and forth from seder.So I wish all you hockers gesunt in this and next world.
Any yid who wishes to be neighbors with a yeshiva must have a heightened sensitivity. These bochurim are young and vulnerable to influences not contrary to daas torah. This storekeeper should be held to a higher standard due to his proximity to the yeshiva. So even if he isnt oyver lefnei eiver by putting these photos up, it is with much chutzpa and disrespect that he leaves them up. However, i do have a problem with what nevealiza( i have spent many shabbosim in neve aliza). If a gadol makes a gramatical error, its still an error. The gedolim arent the top experts in grammer nor should they. They are gedolim for their understanding of torah, life, values… So even if they did write a letter in english, (which they didnt in this scenario) a missing comma is not a chisuron in their gadlus!
mr wolf you are a wolf in sheeps clothing dont you think thaay took this into concideration but peaple like you who try to bring halacha to matur anything and everything. and by the way its assur to look at womens faces as well when its done in a gazing maner you are adisgrace like the owner of this store.
Its time to raise the banner of Torah and put an end to the purveyors of pritzus. In this instance, and in all the other many unfortunate instances that pritzus is tolerated in our commnities.
Mt Mehdi, you are absolutely correct, but for complete accuracy I will correct a point that has no bearing on your message. The gemorah does not say that it caused the destruction, but that caused Tzion to be plowed like a field. To strengthen your message I will point out that what is mentioned there is not that they wore revealing clothing, rather that they did things which attracted the attention of men. Examples given are improper use of makeup and perfume. Many midrashim also mention specifically high-heeled shoes. Although this is not mentioned in the gemora, it does state other things done to give an impression of being tall. Specifically the problem we are discussing with these pictures is the one stated in the gemora.
Is there something wrong with the pictures? Or is it just its location across from the yeshiva?
does it make a difference? the rosh yeshiva said it was wrong. thats all that counts
Did R’ Schechter meet with them and talk directly to the owner?
If a Rav paskens, then people should listen. It is inappropriate to have any pictures of women, head shots or not, directly opposite a Yeshiva so they’re the first thing the Bochurim see as they leave the premises.
All you people who object to the Psak: weren’t you the first ones to stop drinking unfiltered water and to stop eating strawberries? How about the Indian hair sheitels? You can’t pick & choose which Psak should be followed.
The store owner’s response to the Rav is appalling. For that alone, until he apologizes, his store should be boycotted.
Finally…we ladies DO have choices! Shaitel machers are 10 a penny in Brooklyn; go somewhere else. We can “vote” with our pocketbooks. If we do that now maybe we can make store owners treat the public with respect in every circumstance. That includes what is displayed in their windows.
how about all you so – called – religious yidden leave us alone and get your news and info somewhere else. let this site be a place for people who don’t want to read “shtussim” to get informed. we don’t have to put up with all this “kfira”.
you obviously don’t understand that in our circles Da’as Torah is something we live by – not something to debate – is it true? who said he wrote it? he didn’t know what he was signing etc. etc.
you don’t seem to scrutinize every piece of info you see in other places (when it conforms to your wharped ideals)
i guess you don’t look at those jewish magazines, where these sheitel stores think its mutar to put pictures of beautiful women(who think they look beautiful) in sheitels. i hope they don’t know the michshul they’re causeing cuz every time a man looks at the picture they’re causeing an averah that just keeps on going and doesn’t stop! it’s not just sheitels that are the problem, the fact women don’t have a busha to publicize their faces like that! thats not beautiful-its really UGLY!!!!!!!!!
60, it makes a tremendous difference. One would think at least from all the comments that the Rosh Yeshiva shlita’s concerns were for the yeshiva students, in which case similar advertising elsewhere, say in a business district, might not be problematic.
But I don’t have a gemarakup. I did read the actual letter and frankly, need to read it again, carefully to be sure that it is the advertising, not the location. The R”Y did refer to “anshei shlomeinu”, which I assume refers to the community at large, not just full time talmidim.
i think everyone should relax a bit and focus on the letter itself. if the rosh hayeshiva has a problem with the sheitel stores add , everyone should accept, eventhough it seems that some are having a hard time doing just that. there is no reason that more L’h should come out of this!!! these comments are getting a little out of hand and we are coming to push down other people for no reason. this is what is delaying the coming of Moshiach!!! we must listen to our gedolim, and that is IT!!
#46,#64 That is why we have fine Torahdika publications like Yated Hamodia Mishpacha so that we won’t have the need or desire to bring inappropriate newspapers and magazines into our mishkan.
# 58 YOUR ARE SO CORRECT!!!!!!!!!
R’ Y. Rosenblum says many times who knows if this probles is the cause for so many sicknesses and Sholom Bayis problems in our generation!!!!!!!!
#67 your absolutely true. but the sad part the magazines im referring to, happen to be frum magazines. and yes baruch hashem we have newspapers who realize its not bederech tznius to show any form of a women in their paper! all credits to them!!(including the YW!)
Pritzus is the plague of our generation. It is the direct cause of untold tragedies.
Join the banner of the Torah. Let us fight this plague and its perpertraters.
Lphi Anivas daati, the attention here is somewhat misdirected. The shaitel manufacturers should be the recipients of protest. It is they who hire the advertising agency and it they who approve/disapprove of advertising materials and it is they who profit/lose from selling their merchandise to the commuinity. It is therefore up to the manufacturers to provide retailers with material which will attract customers and not violate the spirit of the halachah
What about the advertisments in newspapers of models modeling for shaitels? quite disappointing…
This is the problem with our generation. People questioning what a gadol says. If A Gadol says something you dont question you listen to what he says!
you are correct when you say lphi anius daati. Orthodox Jews are not the only ones who wear wigs, in fact, while they may be a higher per capita of wig wearers, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to goyim who wear wigs and that that’s the reason that shaitel ads feature attractive models and are written in English, and not your bubby and written in Yiddish. The wig manufacturers offer to whomever will buy, the Yidden take advatage of the product offered. Going to the manufaturera would be a waste of time. Go explain him to him that the product that he’s selling to make woman look attractive is not really supposed to make them look soooo attractive. Get it?
Next, there is a large Jewish element that was brought up watching TV, going to movies, and looking at woman, because no one in their circles ever said there was a problem with it. Thus, having developed a pre-conceived notion of what an extraordinarily beautiful woman is supposed to looks like, these people await their princess, that will never come, which why the Modern orthodox stay single into their 30s, 40s, 50s+, because they’re waiting for the supermodel that they been watching for decades, while chassidim get married at 18-20 as long as the girl has middos toivas and does chesed, what more could one ask for, unlike the poor unfortunate soul that has been poisoned by 30+ years of TVs and movies. This is not debatable. MO marriage trends mirror that of the goyish velt because they use the same goyish standards. Reb Avigdor Miller Z”L was right when he said “a parent that allows his child to watch TV should be jailed.” MO is now reaping the bitter fruit of “embracing the secular world”, i.e., goyish culture.
simply put this world is full and filthy with tumah! the yetzer hara is so strong! everywhere you turn and walk your haunted by the ‘goyishe velt’! and sadly we include that velt in our ‘yiddishe velt’. we have to fight the yeter hara and tell him to leave-were not interested in the goyishe way! (of course it’s much easier said then done but we have to try with as much power we have!)
Matzohlocaol101 has a most interesting approach to the problem.
Howver, the bigger problem is that the entire sheitel business is contradictory.
Yeshivish wives going out buying $4,000 sheitels.
Those sheitels are nothing but seductive, provocative, and intended to uproot the entire principle for which a head covering was intended.
Regarding #74: So why do I know a stack full of yeshivish women in their late 20’s and early-mid 30’s who are single and I’ve got another stack of yeshivish males who won’t consider some of these women because they don’t have the “right” look, hair, weight, dress size, whatever that might be?
I just re-read the letter in its original hebrew and nowhere does it mention that R’ Shechter spoke w/ the owner personally.
Perhaps a compromise can be reached and a veil placed over the women’s faces leaving the sheitels exposed for prospective purchasers.
i don’t see anything wrong with discussing this issue even though the rosh wrote the letter. we just want to understand it better and we don’t have the convenience of being in his shiur where we can ask him about it. my only concern is that this can lead to other boycotts led by people who don’t have daas torah. i would have thought that other , more safe pressure could have been used.
Firstly, to the editors (or whoever moderates the comments) I would like to request that my comment does go through. I’m aware than some comments do not make it but I believe this is relevant, if not to the article’s contents, then at least to the comments bandied about following the article’s posting. Feel free to omit this first paragraph.
To my fellow Yidden,
I have various thoughts on the issue and I can see why so many people are upset, but I chose not to share my thoughts for a very simple reason.
I have read through the comments posted regarding this article and I am ashamed. Ashamed to find that so many upstanding, caring, frum yidden have lowered themselves to bickering and spreading ill comments and suggestions about fellow Jews.
Worse, think of all the people who have read, commented and SHARED these thoughts and terrible remarks with others, in effect spreading terrible lashon horah and inciting other yidden to the same aveirah.
While I don’t argue that many of the points are valid and the feelings certainly so, I sincerely hope you will all sit back and reflect on the things you have said and thoughts, and remember that regardless of the OTHER person’s aveira or insult, some of you might owe them an apology for ill will/bad thought.
I hope we can all bond together in ahavas yisroel and not spend time things that may bring us to create or increase sinas chinam.
Harav Shechter, Shlita, never spoke to the owner directly. The avreichim and one administrator
spoke to the store worker numerous times and the owner was called on the phone when the “this is not B’nei Barak” comment was made. Some phone calls were followed up by some Avreichim. The owner received a copy of Harav Shechter’s letter.
The rosh yeshiva, rather than an administrator should handle such matters. It is not for laypeople and uncultured, unrefined others to handle such critical issues.
It is not for uncultured, unrefined laypeople to pass judgment/give advice to the Rosh Yeshiva regarding whom he should appoint to handle such matters.
So what should those who feel that this is wrong do? How should they respond?
It’s easy to find fault with the actions of others, much harder to provide a better way.
This is most certainly a big problem– taking the hallmark of tznius and advertising in a non-tnius way is wrong, whether or not we are in Bnei Brak and whether or not a Yeshiva is across the street. But there is an even bigger problem- it is increasingly harder to find a proper, tznius shaitel these days. When my mother took me shaitel shopping before my wedding 3 months ago, she was horrified at the suggestions the shaitel-machers were trying to push on us. I too grew increasingly uncomfortable. My mother and I agreed that until we can find a proper, modest shaitel, it will be teichels, hats and snoods for me. That is what I have been doing, and that is how I plan to continue. I am quite happy without the bother of a fancy shaitel, and I feel much more in tune with my personal tznius. Several of my friends have done the same, and they are all too happy to do so. Yes, tznius has empirical rules about what, how much, and how to cover ourselves, but that does not mean we can make it into a game of heterim, and how much can I get away with within the confines of halacha. I think it is time that we emphasize the spirit of the laws tznius in addition to the letter. This includes asking for the return of proper shaitels, and forgoing the use of them until that happens.
In regard to the letter:
1) If the Rosh Yeshiva said something, then I’ll follow it because of Emunas Chachamim.
In regard to tznius vs. pritzus:
2) 50 years ago, and even up until 20 years ago, the majority of Orthodox Jewish women did not cover their hair AT ALL, even the wives of Rabbonim, some of them very prominent ones.
For a woman to cover her hair is a very big Nisayon (obstacle or test) and the fact that we have such nice wigs nowadays allows more and more women to keep this important Mitzvah.
The prohibition in the Torah is not that a woman should not appear beautiful – it is that she must cover her hair and head. There are many reasons but the point is that her OWN hair does not show.
The fact is that a shaitel, while not as holy perhaps as a tichel and hat, for an every day Frum woman it is a perfectly great way to keep this Mitzvah.
If a woman wants to really grow and add on a Chumrah, which is a personal choice that cannot be dictated by anyone else, then it is up to her to choose to wear only tichels and hats which cover the hair fully.
To call a beautiful wig pritzus is undermining a woman’s confidence in keeping this wonderful Mitzvah.
Whoever said that the Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed because of tznius should know that from the time the world was created men have always blamed their wife for anything that happened. Odom blamed chavah for eating the aits hadas, “It was not my fault, my wife made me do it!”
And why take the blame for the destruction of the Bais Hamikdosh? “It’s the fault of the women!”
The real simple reason was because the MEN! where busy killing themselves so they had no energy left to fight the intruders. There were several factions, and if you know some history you will know that even kohanim while in the Bais Hamikdosh doing the avoide, hid knives under their bigdei kohanima and killed Jews from the rival factions who came oile regel. How about the Jews who burnt all the stored food?
Had they been reunited and not killed each other, this would never have happened.
So stop playing the blame game, and start taking responsibility for your actions.
Our high school was located right next to a Yeshivah Katana. We were not allowed by the school administration to pass the Yeshivah. We were forced to cross the street, circle the whole block to go to school, so not to walk directly in front of the Yeshivah.
To G – reply no. 85:
You said, and I quote:
“It’s easy to find fault with the actions of others, much harder to provide a better way.”
I’m not trying to “find fault” with others.
I am saying, however, that the replies to this article have grown from those of concern and possibly discussions of how to correct or deal with the issue, to insults and slander (the article is about tznius and propriety, not about attitudes, prices, ganavim /thieves/ and the like) and bringing in those comments are most definitely spreading lashon horah.
If we feel so strongly about the issues that we feel the need to spread the word to help protect our people, and keep from being tainted by impurities and obstacles, etc., then we should be just as concerned and vigilant about the souls being affected by slander and the spreading of nasty comments; those comments do absolutely nothing to help solve the problem and only aggravate things futher.
As for how those who feel that this is wrong should deal with this or respond? I would suggest approaching your community rabbi or leader, perhaps having a lecture, workshops or speeches to inform the community as to the dangers, along with the whys and wherefores, etc. (That’s not to say that it is the rabbir or leaders job alone to instruct, but it may be helpful if a person in a position of authority and respect would try to reach out to the people to explain in ways the average person may not be able.
Furthermore, if we have these problems to begin with, one would think that the laws haven’t been impressed properly upon the community at large and as such, should be stressed in the home and schools and kehillas across the globe. You can’t slap a bandange on a disease; it needs to be treated at the core.
I understand that passing on the message is important and alerting the public to the infraction may be wise, but it should be done in a respectful manner, and when possible, and educative one.
One would like to think that we are all mature mentchen. If we care so much about these issues and are so intent on rectifying them or spreading the word so others don’t end up suffering from it (i.e. viewing inappropriate materials, etc.), then surely we also care about preserving our fellow man from spreading lashon horah, too?
Wishing you and all Klal Yisroel all the best,
Let’s look in Choshen Mispat… I think the store owner should tell the yeshiva to mind its own business (I suppose he already did). It’s not their street, it’s not their store and storeowner isn’t doing anything wrong, not according to Din Torah or Din Malchous. If the yeshiva boys want to be very frum, they can do it on their own dime – it’s not the storekeeper’s problem, he’s just trying to make a living.
This thread is so typical of what is wrong in the yeshiva world today – making a big tzimus because someone decided that since they want to be very frum, the whole world must stop what they’re doing and cater to them, while neglecting simple choshen mishpat that is fundamental to the Torah.