Fundraising emails are being sent by Kol Milchama, “the Voice of War”, explaining NIS 1,500 is required to publicize the attached pashkavil against a schedule concert (kumzitz) event in Elad, an event that was approved by Mayor Yisrael Porush.
The event is scheduled to take place this Thursday, 28 Menachem Av, in Elad. Performers at the night of singing and entertainment include well-known singers Shloime Gertner and Moti Steinmitz and the Malchus band. The pashkavil states one may not attend such an event without approval of “the Badatz”, referring to the Badatz Eida Chareidis, which objects to the event.
Opponents of the concert explain advertisement for the event seek to dupe the community into believing the evening is suitable for Bnei Torah and endorsed by Gedolim, when it is not so.
Below is the text of the emails circulated, seeking to raise NIS 1,500 to advertise the badatz pashkavil.
מצורף מכתב בד”ץ נגד הופעה שעושה מחטיא הרבים ישראל פרוש באלעד ביום ה’ השבוע עם אליל הזמר מוטי שטיינמץ
כעת רוצים לפרסם את המכתב בלוח מודעות בירושלים, אבל אין שום תקציב לזה
מדובר בסכום לא גדול – 1,500 ש”ח
מי שמוכן לתרום את הסכום הזה או חלק ממנו כדי שנזכה לפרסם את המכתב, נא להתקשר לועד לנגינה יהודית במספר 03-6191973 או 054-8460068
(YWN Israel Desk – Jerusalem)
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56 Responses
The Badatz can stay in their caves and whine to one another but no one really cares. These are well known frum entertainers who provide an appropriate concert for all yidden. These Badatz nutcases will assur talking to their own mothers if given the opportunity. They are free, of course, to protest peacefully as the klal is to ignore them and their leadership as they typically do. i
I think your editors need to come up with a new vocabulary to describe events here in Israel. “Extremists” is a term that you use interchangeably to describe thugs who beat up religious IDF soldiers and people they disagree with on religious grounds, Peleg Yerushalim supporters who block traffic as well as the Eida Chareidis. Although all three groups are certainly more “extreme” than the bulk of the Chareidi world they differ in more ways than they are alike. I realize that it’s not easy to reflect nuance in headlines, but to do so is the job of a responsible news outlet.
Olesker:
Did u ever hear the saying “a ganif with an excuse is still a ganif”?
They’re all extremists which ever way you look at them.
badtz eida charadit is a jerusalem bet din. even inside jerusalem the badatz is viewed today as irrelevant.
Elad is certainly outside its imaginary jurisdiction
badatz has no right to give any rulings for elad
I believe the editors choice of the word “Extremists” is 100% appropriate. These people are simply nuts. They make me embarrassed to be a Yid.
Sounds like a new way of business. Making money through fundraising for pashkavilim. Maybe the Jewish community needs guidelines about what people can raise money for.
A serious bnai Torah would not go to conerts.
I think that this is a scam to rip off people. Notice that is is signed by anonymous “gaonim”.
The Badatz can’t afford NIS 1,500?
What about the concert are they claiming is not “suitable for Bnei Torah” ?
Why is 1,500 necessary to advertise the Badatz’s opposition to the event!? They got free advertisement on YWN!!!
Youd think it was a rock concert or an Apikorsus or Footsteps backed event. Give people the chance for kosher entertainment for Heaven’s sake! You cant lock men up in the Bais Medrash and women in the kitchen 24/7.
Olesker
Perhaps you can educate the readership regarding the differences of the EXTREMISTS & their agendas.
The definition stated for extremist is one who holds “extreme or fanatical views politically or religiously & resorts to extreme behavior”…
I suppose anything out of the norm is considered “extreme”, is that your norm or my norm or the normal norm!!! Huh!!!
And Yes all of your three examples are extremists!!!!
YWN you’ve got to stop this immature mehalech of labelling everyone you don’t agree with as extremists. It’s actually pretty chutzpah-dik (to put it lightly) to refer to any Beis Din in this way, let alone a very choshuve Beis Din who basically everyone relies on for kashrus etc.
I don’t mean to say that the YWN editorial staff isn’t also very choshuve. Fakkert, it is certainly poshut to everyone that you are a bar plugta of the Badatz. However a machlokes between Badatz and YWN Beis Din should be the same as a machlokes between Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai, which was a little more mechubad than the tone of this article.
Your article states that the concert is “endorsed by Gedolim”. Unfortunately no names were provided.
The word “endorse” means to “declare one’s public approval or support of”. I highly doubt any Godol actually “supports” it, I’m sure many are OK with it for those who need to relax etc, but no-one would actually say its a good thing to go. I.e. its a bedieved not a lechatchilo. And even this would not be “public”.
Insurgents is a more accurate description.
Gadolhatorah,
Please learn the sugya in maseches Gittin about זמרא. With all ראשונים, before you say your opinion. There are other Halacha and hashkafa questions too. It’s not extremists that are against concerts. It’s the Gedolei and Poskei Hador. Surprised YWN wrote this headline. I Expected more from them.
Gavriel613, sorry I know plenty of people who DONT rely on their kashros or their endorsements on peleg etc, in my opinion they’re a bunch of goons who run a mafia like organisation.
This kumzits style concert is run by frum people/singers who do not sing to a mixed crowd or where there’s no mechitza.
Perhaps Eida Hachraidos ‘ra’bonim should stop people singing by their own weddings, functions, shuls etc because it s a’chillul hashem’ just the same.
And of course Dagolhaborah is free to spew her apikorsus peacefully as she usually does, in this case by being mevazeh the Talmidei Chachomim of the Badatz. And we are free to ignore her ignorant hateful ramblings as we always do.
London16: You’re rant actually raises an important point.
You wrote “ra’bonim should stop people singing by their own weddings, functions, shuls etc because it s a’chillul hashem’ just the same.”
Those are usualy legitimate Simchos. Aside from say Chol Hamoed what Simcha is being celebrated at these concerts?
Rabbi Orlofsky said that when the MBC came years ago to the Badatz for approval to make a concert in Yerushalayim, the Badatz asked them “Simcha shel mah?” So they made it in Bnei Brak!
Oles,
Whilst the Bedatz RABBANIM are indeed very Chashov – it is obvious this ‘campaign’ against is run by extremists.
Most of the proclamation is not so extreme, all it is saying is that it goes against the Halacha, which they are basically correct. (I recall, Rav Moshe ZTL also holds it is not muttar – at least leKatchila)
The only issue is that the Tzibur and youth need kosher entertainment. And there is a Fifth SH”A to apply here..
כשם שמצווה לומר דבר הנשמע, כך מצווה שלא לומר דבר שאינו נשמע”
In any case, I am sure it was initiated by extremists, like who went to the BeDatz with this issue?
Who’s campaigning against it?
Read between the lines: It is obvious, Badatz is NOT even willing to finance any of this Proclamation.
Sorry, Yisroel H…this isn’t even a close one. The participating entertainers are fine and their music is mainstream frum music….there are no women singers, not even a Matissyahu type . Just good family entertainment for the 99 percentile of frum yidden. Several of the performers were listed by CR posters several weeks ago as among the top frum singers performing today (in a highly scientific CR ranking). Yes, we solicit the advice of gadolim on many matters but not simply because a self-styled fringe “beis din” wants to further disrupt the lives of the tzibur with their meshugaas.
Londonn16, if you think it is acceptable to publicly express such an opinion being mevazeh extremely choshuve talmidei chachomim, then there are other blogs available online which don’t have the word Yeshiva in their title which may be more appropriate for you. Maybe print out your comment and take it to your own Rov and ask him if he sees anything wrong with posting that.
Shame on you YWN for allowing this comment, may I quote your own rules to you: “Opinions are okay, but demeaning torah, halacha and gedolim is not okay. We do not want the responsibility of deciding how wrong a comment is, and if it is or if it isn’t against halacha. We are not poskim and we will always err on the side of caution.” and “We are not and will not become Lashon Hara central”. Although perhaps “extremists” are yotzo michlal amisecho and there’s no issur loshon horo about them?
רמב”ם פרק ו מהלכות תלמוד תורה:
עוון גדול לבזות את החכמים או לשנאותן, ולא חרבה ירושלים עד שבזו בה תלמידי חכמים, שנאמר “וַיִּהְיוּ מַלְעִבִים בְּמַלְאֲכֵי הָאֱלֹהִים וּבוֹזִים דְּבָרָיו וּמִתַּעְתְּעִים בִּנְבִאָיו עַד עֲלוֹת חֲמַת ה’ בְּעַמּוֹ עַד לְאֵין מַרְפֵּא”, כלומר, היו בוזים לומדי דבריו של ה’, שהם התלמידי חכמים, ובעון זה עלתה חמת ה’ עד שנענשו ישראל בחורבן ירושלים
You may feel uncomfortable with their Yiddishkeit, but just to justify yourself is not a good reason to decide they aren’t talmidei chachomim, and to deride them.
I could quote the Gemoro in sanhedrin 99b and Rashi in parshas Bechukosai 26:15, however I chose the Rambam as it is the least sharf quote.
Lots of comments.
Concerts, leisure activities, hikes, exercise programs, visiting parks & zoos, reading newspapers or novels, swimming, choirs & plays, viewing videos, touring (outside of kevarim), music lessons, art activities, self – defense training, sports, etc. etc. –
if you are having difficulty in deciding the yes or no, speak to your Rav, Rebbe or conclude on your own after years of Torah learning. The pashivile business is increasing, growing & entangled in “fake news”. Rabbis names are not properly informed or secured, & frequently never approached.
“Rabbi Orlofsky said that when the MBC came years ago to the Badatz for approval to make a concert in Yerushalayim, the Badatz asked them “Simcha shel mah?” So they made it in Bnei Brak!”
But here is the very difference – they made it in B”B and no one complained against it. Whereas in this case, it is in ELAD and there is a campaign against it.
As I’ve said: Extremism is on the rise!
Note – As I have posted earlier, this has nothing c”v with or against BeDat”z, (they are absolutely correct in raising their opinion – which is based on Halacha peshutah) the issue in concern are the people behind it. Which have nothing to do with the Chavrei BD”Z , they did not direct anyone to go out and campaign against it.
All they said is to all who abide to their psak should not attend.
For all who are familiar, Extreme would be a header like: CHEREM Chumor! or Issur Chumir! Shomu Shomayim! etc.
ככלב שב על קיאו
KatanHadorah continues to spew her vile putrid foul smelling fetid rot.
Who says that it is the badatz of the Eida haChareidit? There are several badatzim in Israel. Any group can call themselves a badatz just as anyone can call himself a rav and/or a mekubal. The notice just says “badatz” and gives landline and cell phone numbers. I bet that if someone calls they ask for his bank info. I hope that the police anti-fraud unit investigates this,
@GadolHadorah: Dont let the simple minded sheeple get you down. They will blindly follow anyone with a beard who self proclaims himself to be a Gadol.
Seriously, we all have bechira. We choose who we want to follow, who to go to to ask a question etc. These guys just wanted total control of your life and everything you do and everywhere you go. Sorry badatz, not interested.
Gavriel, please spare me. I am not being mevayez them (since you only speak yeshivish), I have great respect for their learning. I just dont think I need to follow their unasked for psaks.
Avi, there is a stamp in the very bottom. Zoom in and you will see.
I know nothing about these things nor who these people are, but I find it really weird when someone asks what is the “simcha”. How about celebrating the life that G-d has given ? How about celebrating the zchus of being in Eretz Israel? How about the mitzvah of giving parnassa to (according to the posters here, good) Yidden?
BoysWork “Gavriel, please spare me” – ? this is your first comment on this page? unless this is Londonn16 using another account to make it look like lots of people think his way? In which case can I quote what you wrote: “in my opinion they’re a bunch of … who run a mafia like organisation”. I agree this statement is not being “mevayez” them, however it certainly is being mevazeh them in a very serious way. Mevazeh means to degrade, put down (since you don’t like yeshivish/ the words which Chazal and the Rambam use to speak about this). I would be interested to hear why calling someone a goon and accusing them of semi-criminal activity isn’t considered degrading in your mind.
Again: perhaps you should print your comment and show it to your Rov for his opinion.
gerorge, FYI – there is ban against playing live music as Zecher LeChurban , specifically, in Jerusalem.
The Yishuv haYashan banned (implemented by the great Imra Binah of Kalish and others over hundred yrs ago) music at all Chasunos. They only have a drum and two singers until this very day.
So now Chasidic Singers need To Pay Eidah for Approval Of a Concert?!? Money. Money needs to go to Eidah to “Approve” events or they ruin a Singers Reputation- that’s Blackmail. People can Ask THEIR OWN RAV if they have a question about an event. Is this The Mafia?!
@Londonn16,
Perhaps Eida Hachraidos ‘ra’bonim should stop people singing by their own weddings, functions, shuls etc because it s a’chillul hashem’ just the same.
i also know many people who dont use the eidahs hechsher; they use the rabbanut (who everyone knows they give a hechsher on everything as long as its not pork). erliche yidden use the eidah (although there are 1 or 2 small good hechsherim, you will have to rely on their kashrus for most things), true in the army they eat the rabbanut but its not your standard.
also, how do you know its a “kumzits style concert is run by frum people/singers who do not sing to a mixed crowd or where there’s no mechitza”, YWN didnt even put out the ad for the concert so how do you know???
“Perhaps Eida Hachraidos ‘ra’bonim should stop people singing by their own weddings, functions, shuls etc because it s a’chillul hashem’ just the same.” – The fact is that there is aproblem with some music and not with other music, every choshuva rov will tell that some jewish music is bad and should not be listened to. even gedolim who even YWN dont call extremist. So just bec. you can’t draw the line of what’s good and bad, it deosnt mean those greater than you cant.
@BoysWork, i find it disgusting that you call r moshe shternbuch a “self proclamed gadol” chas veshalom. you should apologize so your lot in hell will be less for being mevazeh a talmid chacham.
@GAON, whos this orlofsky rabbi of yours??
if r moshe shternbuch is a extremist all i can say is that im also!!
What could possibly be wrong with coming to hear a singer as erlich as Motty Steinmetz?!
There’s a good reason why there’s no money for this: the Badatz aren’t interested in funding it!
It’s all Fake news cooked up by the ‘chareidi’ mafia!
leahleh I think you misunderstood, no-one said anyone has to pay the Bedatz
Gadolhadorah
I mentioned to you to first learn the sugya of zimra in maseches gittin.
Please see igras moshe orach chaim chelek alef simon 166. Thank you.
BDatz is not suitable for bnei torah
@talmidchochom, yes it is.
@take2tando, flatbushguy ,in line with your rhetoric i think you would call pinchos a extremist.
(i could actually imagine it, the erev rav in the midbar posting headlines like this: A chareidy extremist attacked and killed (sic) a nasi in klal yisrael. comments below: lealeh or gadolhadorah say: who are these self proclaimed rabbis (moshe) who support him? i wonder if there are any real rabbis supporting him???)
@boyswork, not everything done with bechirah is muttar. hashem gave you bechirah and if you use it to go against gedolim who you decide aren’t (which you dont have the right to), then i`m sorry, but you are heading to a very special hot place.i`m saying these are the rules.
it sound like you are trying to undermine emunas chachomim. if r moshe shternbuch isnt a a gadol,how do i know r shteinman is? or the chofetz chaim? who do you have for a rebbi?
G,
1. I tried zooming but the stamp is illegible (and anyone can make up a stamp). In any case, if it were from a real badatz there would be names of rabbanim.
2. The gezera about playing music in Yerushalayim was only at weddings. Even there there is a machloket if it applies to the New City.
Daas,
I was qouting Uncle Ben, an earlier post.
BTW, i am sure Rav Sternbuch has nothing with this entire proclamation. There is always some hot headed extremist behind claims like these…
> GAON
“gerorge, FYI – there is ban against playing live music as Zecher LeChurban , specifically, in Jerusalem”
This article is talking about Elad and you bring in Jerusalem?
SharonSJ
August 8, 2018 5:49 am at 5:49 am
Sounds like a new way of business. Making money through fundraising for pashkavilim. Maybe the Jewish community needs guidelines about what people can raise money for.
A serious bnai Torah would not go to concerts.
—————————–
A serious bnei tora would not be commenting on a blog site. Nor would they be on the internet in the first place.
Your hypocrisy is just so telling.
@gavriel and da-ass: First of all, I am not london16. Second, nowhere did I mention any name. So don’t say I called R’ Shternbuch a name. Lastly, I still stand by my words: Any rav, ANY RAV, that commands these young men to inconvenience thousand of people on a regular basis is guilty. He can never reimburse time and he will pay for it in the next world.
Also da-ass (appropriate name), I do have every right to disagree with any rav I want to. They are not perfect. They put their pants on just like me, one leg at a time.
BoysWork if as you say you aren’t londonn16 then I’m confused, why did you ask me to spare you. I hadn’t said anything to you. I said something to Londonn16. If you were responding to that comment I made to Londonn16, then I stand by my words, he called the Rabbonim of the Bedatz goons which is unacceptable.
Anyway in your other comment you characterised the Rabbonim of the Bedatz as “anyone with a beard who self proclaims himself to be a Gadol” and “These guys just wanted total control of your life and everything you do and everywhere you go”. You’re right, you didn’t single out any of the Rabbonim, you attacked the entire body behind the pashkevil, i.e. all of the Bedatz Rabbonim.
I’m not going to start trying to justify each and every thing you think they may have said. My point is simple. Just because you don’t understand – in fact even if they are 100% wrong in those things – does not take away the fact that they are groyse talmidei chachomim and beig mevaze them is very serious.
I challenge you to print out these comments, show them to your Rov, and see how he reacts. Waiting to hear back from you.
@BoysWork said “I do have every right to disagree with any rav” its people like him who sow machlokes in klal yisroel by thinking they come up to the shoelaces of people greater than them to give their baleibatishe dayos about everything in the oilam hayeshiva
@boyswork said “I still stand by my words: Any rav, ANY RAV, that commands these young men to inconvenience thousand of people on a regular basis is guilty”
i think he misread the article so i`ll repeat it again from YWN: “Fundraising emails are being sent by Kol Milchama, “the Voice of War”, explaining NIS 1,500 is required to publicize the attached pashkavil” – Which was from badatz.
SO PLEASE REPEAT AND EXPLAIN – how does this ” inconvenience thousand of people on a regular basis”???!??
omg! one would think that the whole world is commenting on this story, however its something in the range of 30 people! 30! thats it! ok so perhaps another 30 are reading the comments so that’s something to write home about… At least it does make everyone here feel important for a little time which is a nice feeling to have every once in a while. It boosts self-esteem and self-confidence.
also…. your comments do not have to be a mile long…. you can make them short and to the point… and no need to bash each other – just stay focused on the story so the comments stay interesting and informative. Think about it who will see these comments tomorrow?
Gavriel, as I previously posted anyone can call himself a rav and any group can call themselves a badatz. In fact, some years ago a three Americans, one of whom was not even Jewish, set up shop in Jerusalem and allowed agunot to remarry – for a small consideration, of course. Then there are all the phony “mekuballim”.
Takes, “A serious bnei Tora would not be commenting on a blog site.”. And you?
BW, you can disagree with real rabbanim about pants but not about Torah unless you have another rav to back you up.
This is one of my first times, on Yeshiva World News, and definitely my first time commenting, but i thought it was worth a try. My comment is directed to “gadolhadorah,” and the like.
I am not coming to express my opinion of who is right or wrong, nor do i have the authority, or arrogance to claim i do.
This website, with my limited knowledge, is directed more towards the right-wing. For anyone to come with an their opinion which is so degrading and negative, and to express it in the comments with such bravado, is a not only rude, and impolite, but its a just a clear expression of insecurity in your beliefs, and in yourself.
Again, i am not expressing any opinion on the matter, nor did i even bother to read the article, but spending so much time scouring the site for controversial postings, and publicizing your opinion, is just an open display of both arrogance, and most of the time, ignorance. Also, there is something called “Confirmation Bias.” After you finish writing your scholarly comments, look it up. It might sound familiar.