HaGaon HaRav Meir Tzvi Bergman spoke sharply to an askan involved in the issue of the Chareidi draft law amid the IDF’s attempt to lure yeshivah bochurim into army service.
The Rosh Yeshivah said, “I always tell this story—when I studied at the Lomza Yeshiva, there were soldiers from the underground movements at the time. They would come to the yeshiva and constantly try to persuade the bochurim to leave and defend the residents of Israel. They would say that it was a hora’as sha’ah and we needed to close our Gemaras, etc. It was very difficult to deal with them; they would constantly sit next to us and harass us. It was difficult to learn.”
“In any case, at that time, members of the underground movements spoke to the Rosh Yeshivah, Rebbe Reuven Katz, z’tl, the Ba’al Degel Reuven, to demand that he allow the bochurim to go with them, and he absolutely refused. In response, they pointed a weapon at him and threatened him. Rebbe Reuven Katz opened his shirt and said to them, ‘If you want, you can shoot me.'”
HaRav Bergman continued: “What do I want to say with this? This story is already 80 years old, and I remember it like yesterday. The reason is because I saw the Rosh Yeshivah’s mesirus nefesh. I saw how he was willing to give up his life for Torah. This is what the bochurim need to see and hear.”
“Every marbitz Torah, every Rosh Yeshivah, and every father must be mechaneich this and talk about this constantly—that it’s forbidden to go to the army, that whoever goes there is—it’s shmad. He won’t come out Chareidi from there, and we must give our lives for this.”
“And we must talk about this all the time and be mechaneich the bochurim about this. Only then can we say, ‘our hands did not shed this blood.’ They—the bochurim—need to feel from us that we are not compromising on this,” the Rosh Yeshivah concluded.
HaRav Bergman has previously said more than once in the name of his father-in-law, HaGaon HaRav Elazar Menachem Man Shach, z’tl, that if Chareidim are ever forcefully recruited to the IDF, it is considered a gezeiras shmad and bnei yeshivos must give up their lives for it.
(YWN Israel Desk—Jerusalem)
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25 Responses
Yasher Koach.
We must all take this to heart.
And be prepared to make the same mesiras nefesh sacrifices if G-d forbid the IDF tries to abduct us into their army.
Indeed, your brothers go to the war ve attem nashvu po. Source: Moshe Rabeinu
“that it’s forbidden to go to the army, that whoever goes there is—it’s shmad. He won’t come out Chareidi from there”
I just have such a hard time when these statements are made, only because I don’t understand them.. The facts just prove otherwise. As someone who learned in yeshiva, kollel for many years and still learns BH many hours a day I’m the last one not to appreciate our bnei Hayeshiva and chavrei Hakollel and absolutely they should not be forced to join the army and we need their limmud Hatorah more than anything, but….BUT there are many chareidim who chose to join the IDF and have rose the ranks in the IDF and we’ve all seen dozens of pictures and clips of them in recent time in Gaza, davening, learning daf hayomi, making kiddush on shabbos and living like true frum yidden. Also weve all seen them off the battlefield with their tzitzis out and keeping all the גדרי צניעות, and so I’m just trying to understand what these gedolim mean when they say time and time again that ‘they won’t come out charedi’..
Also, what does such a comment do to the psychic of a chareidi soldiers that are currently serving on the front lines? If I was serving on the front lines and I saw such a comment from our gedolim it would break me, and so I’m just having such a hard time with these comments. Whoever can enlighten me will be doing me (and others) a huge favor…
C.M.:
1. There’s no doubt that *many* large numbers of observant Jews who enter the IDF leave it as non – observant Jews.
2. Even those that remain observant when discharging from the IDF, are very frequently less observant than when they entered.
3. And even those few who seem still as observant, are in fact, no longer the same Yirei Shamayim when they leave the IDF. Even if mostly for social reasons, they continue dressing in the levush in order to fit into their old social circles.
This is a slap in the face to all the soldiers, including Hareidim, who have given their lives for Am Yisrarl – including these slackers.
Just enlist those who are not really learning. The Chazan Ish said that they should be reported to the authorities. That would take care of IDF manpower needs and stop them from defrauding the public by working off the books.
AAQ – Your brothers go to Yehoshua’s army, and you tend to your cattle… What does that have to do with the IDF? You are aware that there were no girls in the army then, or Chilonim, or people who spoke between Tefillin Shel Yad and Shel Rosh…
cool masmid – Much has been said about this subject, and I don’t have time to rehash everything every time someone posts a comment like yours. Suffice it to say that many of those pictures and clips are posed. The problems, on the other hand, are very real. I just have such a hard time when these statements are made, only because I don’t understand why ostensibly ‘Chareidi’ commenters are less sympathetic to Israeli Chareidim then many Israeli ‘Chilonim’ are… Maybe they know some things that you don’t…
There are many ways to answer your question. But just one important point. You say that there are many of them that are “davening, learning daf hayomi, making kiddush on shabbos and living like true frum yidden”. What you are describing is typical of any religious Jew. Even Open Orthodox daven, learn daf yomi, make Kiddush etc etc. The point is not necessarily that one will go to the army and come out irreligious (although that happens extremely often and is a major risk). The point is that they will come out without the correct Hashkafa on life, with their priorities mixed up etc. ESPECIALLY since the stated goal of the IDF is to create a melting pot of Israeli culture and remove true feelings of devotion to Hashem and replace them with devotion to the State and Army.
If learning Gemara for 80 years leads a Gadol to such twisted falsehood, then why would I want to choose his path?
The reality is clear to all who want to seek truth- There are more Torah True Jews in the IDF today than ever.
The Torah they learn in the IDF is what is keeping our nation alive, not the fakers portrayed in this article.
This is such a one-sided argument. One could just as well argue that many who enter Charedi yeshivot emerge non-observant and non-believers.
At the time of formation of the State, Agudas Yisrael called on its followers in Yerushalayim to go out to help defend the Jews there. Perhaps there were those who had an attitude like that reported by the individual quoted in this article – but they were not the only view, and the “official” representative party of his community felt otherwise.
The distortions and untruths put forth by Chareidi leadership are causing hundreds of times more damage than if every single Chareidi male were to join the IDF. People need to have confidence that their leaders are telling them the truth to be willing to follow them – and once that confidence is lost, it’s incredibly difficult to regain.
an Israeli Yid
@cool masmid – most (though by no means all) of the Frum soldiers you see showing such Mesiras Nefesh for Torah and Yiddishkeit in Gaza are not Chareidi – they’re Dati Leumi. Dati Leumi is not the same as “modern orthodox” in the US, though there are many DL that would fit that definition – there are also many DL in Israel that are as strict (or stricter) in Halacha as the strictest Chareidi; however, they have a different Hashkafa vis-a-vis the State and their responsibility to their fellow Jews.
an Israeli Yid
The sad fact is that in Israel, many chareidim (not all) have divorced themselves from the rest of klal Yisrael with a mentality that chareidi jewry is the only authentic form of Judaism. Combine this with a mix of paranoia and insecurity and you can understand the hyperbolic posturing that exposure to the nonchareidi world will destroy their belief in Hashem and the Torah. In reality the fear is the undermining of rabbinic authority and control within the chareidi world.
Thanks for proving my point chareidi “amiti”. Someone can honestly think he is chareidi but in truth he has sunk to such a low level and is so disconnected that it doesn’t bother him in the least to arrogantly slander and ridicule the Gedolim and pillars of our generation! “Chareidi amiti”‘s despicable post is one of the biggest proofs I have seen so far of why we need to hold tight to the true mesorah and have Emunas Chachomim.
Zionist “amiti”:
Your post is a disgrace. But the reality is clear to all who are honest: Zionism is shmad and the Zionist army is the chief instrument of that shmad.
Avi K: There is not a snowball’s chance in… that the Chazon Ish ever advocating Jews being shmaded in the Zionist army.
Regarding them “working off the books”, unlike in any real country, it is the wicked Zionists who refuse to allow them to work “on the books” unless they first convert from Judaism to Zionism by being enlisted in the Zionist shmad army.
Rosh Yeshiva seems to be disregarding the fact that those who agreed to go and protect residents of EY, were protected from the gezerah and lived to hopefully have einekels who learn Torah, join the Army, or both. Most of those who stayed in Lomza yeshiva did not …
But thanks to YYA and other posters – I understand the Rosh Yeshiva’s position better now: he is not saying that Tzahal will make the soldiers not religious, H’V – simply they’ll become “non charedi”.
Maybe there is a place here for at least a temporary compromise: from the referenced articles, it is clear that HaRav is talking exclusively about “bnei yeshiva” and “lomdei Torah”, so maybe those who are not learning should go to the Army and in the process work out a system that is respectful to charedim.
It is telling—and frankly disgraceful—that you deleted my respectful, measured comment: “This is such a one-sided argument. One could just as well argue that many who enter Charedi yeshivot emerge non-observant and non-believing.” That simple observation, grounded in reality and concern for Klal Yisrael, posed no threat except to the brittle ideological rigidity that governs this site. YWN has surrendered entirely to the Artscrollization of Jewish life—a project that flattens history, erases dissent, and presents mythology in place of truth. By censoring even mild critiques, you betray a fear not of heresy, but of honest conversation. The Jewish People deserve better than curated sanctimony and echo chambers masquerading as Torah discourse.
“Chareidi Amiti”? Does amiti mean completely off the derech?
You can choose whatever path you like — just don’t pretend it’s still within shouting distance of anything Jewish.
If 80 years of learning by Gedolei Yisrael looks like “twisted falsehood” to you, maybe it’s time to check whose GPS you’re using.
In Torah Judaism, our truth comes from our gedolim, not from Twitter threads or army briefings.
Ari’s points are well written. Articulate – and in my opinion accurate. The chareidi world continues to contract itself into a self imposed, ever tighter bubble that rejects any other shita as an authentic torah based judaism. It rejects historical / critical thinking in favor of rigidity and conformity of thought.
If you ever wonder where גאוה could lead to, just look at chareidi shekeri’s post
Anyone who can openly call for Rebellion against what this rav said because they have a different personal View, should just know that they are headed for disaster. Keep it to yourself but don’t publicly defame him mr.israeliMisguidedKoferYid
Being mevazeh a Talmid Chochom & Manhig Yisroel because you don’t like his opinion regarding drafting Bnei Yeshiva is an act of spiritual suicide.
Chazal call such a person an Apikores, not a label to be taken lightly.
A person who consistently does this & there are such commenters on this site, have no chelek in olom hahaha R”L.
I don’t understand why some Jews who otherwise practice halacha would be willing to lose it all, just to comment anonymously online.
You’re only anonymous to us readers, in shomayim you’re name is visible to all.
How embarrassing it will be to be known to all as the person who was mevazeh a talmid chochom berabim.
The yetzer horah is so smart, he gets people to do the most foolish things!
chareidi amiti says:
July 29, 2025 4:23 am at 4:23 am
If learning Gemara for 80 years leads a Gadol to such twisted falsehood, then why would I want to choose his path?
The reality is clear to all who want to seek truth- There are more Torah True Jews in the IDF today than ever.
The Torah they learn in the IDF is what is keeping our nation alive, not the fakers portrayed in this article.
YWN have you no shame to print such comments. when somebody makes a comment disparaging you, you always make sure to correct tit, but one can poke fun at hashem and chosen ones and get away unchecked????
Do you not know what chazal teach us regarding a Mevazeh talmid chacham, אף השומע ושותק??
כׇּל מָקוֹם שֶׁיֵּשׁ חִילּוּל הַשֵּׁם, אֵין חוֹלְקִין כָּבוֹד לָרַב.