Harav Aharon Feldman shlit”a demonstrated incredible composure and dignity Monday night during a public asifah in Beit Shemesh that addressed the issue of giyus. The asifa, organized by the Ezram U’maginam organization, drew a diverse and mixed crowd and was headlined by Harav Feldman alongside Rav Yehoshua Eichenstein, Rosh Yeshiva of Yad Aharon and a close talmid and confidant of Harav Aharon Leib Shteinman zt”l.
During the event, a man from a Mizrachi background began shouting harsh accusations at Harav Feldman, including calling him a liar. As tensions rose and members of the audience began yelling at the man in response, Harav Feldman intervened calmly and firmly.
Rather than allowing the situation to escalate, Harav Feldman instructed those around him not to become upset and emphasized that the man had a full right to express himself. His response defused the confrontation and underscored his respect for every individual, even amid sharp disagreement.
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The rasha who interrupted the Tzadik was put up to doing that by the apikorus Natan (formerly Noson) Slifkin ym”s.
YWN allows comments that refer to Jews of other persuasions as ym’s?
Nice, but I wish he would’ve answered the ignorant yeller that many many senior exports from the army all admit and testify that there’s חילול שבת in a rampant way.
ujm: apikorus? Takes one to know one…
Why did the charedi parties vote we are in a milkchemet mitzvah them refuse to fight?
ujm, writing ym”s after rabbi Slifkun’s name nominates you the role of rasha of the year! and btw, how do you know who put him up?
IAC, Rabbi Feldman’s attacks on the RZ movement and women’s performance of mitzvot normatively performed by men received a clear take down by the Gaon RAL ztl. As the head of a formerly moderate yeshiva, he has turned to far right positions, he cannot defend in honest debate.
You don’t say ym”sh an another Jew, as the Imrei Emes said, and he is not an apikores; most things he has written over the years were already said by Rishonim whom you wouldn’t dare start up with. And you have no evidence for that claim anyhow. The Rambam says things in the Moreh for which you’d call even him an apikores!
While one cannot condone insulting a Talmud Chacham, this should serve as a wake up call to the broader Chareidi world that has not shown empathy toward that soldiers who have given their lives to protect Klal Yisrael. Irrespective of one’s position about serving in Tzahal, there should be no disagreement about our responsibility to give Hakoras HaTov the Dati Leumi and secular communities that are Moser Nefesh to protect all of us. It would be nice to hear public declarations from our leaders along those lines.
Joseph Goebbels,
You had no similar criticism for the vile behavior of your Nazi Kapo (NK) buddies against the Gadol Hador several weeks ago.
Nazi hypocrite, you’re not even Jewish!
ujm- based on what do you make that accusation?
We are told in Pirkei Avos to accept the truth no matter what the source. It would have behooved the attendants at the event to have followed this Ma’amar Chazal – and the presenters to have followed the Pasuk of Midvar Sheker Tirchak.
The “facts” stated by the presenters in their remarks to support their positions were pure fantasy – and an insult to the memories of the dozens of B’nei Torah and B’nei Yeshiva (including from RBS A) who gave their lives al Kidush Hashem defending their fellow Jews in this war. The presenters obviously don’t need me to say that they are entitled to their own Shitos and Hashkafos – but even they are not entitled to their own facts.
an Israeli Yid
Why don’t you post the recording? R. Feldman claimed that in Chashmonaim, halachic questions are determined by unqualified army commanders. This is simply not true – they are decided by HaRav Asher Weiss. This is what the person shouted out.
The man who gave the outburst may have been disrespectful for doing it in the forum that he did, but is he right? What are the facts?
1. @UJM – please provide me with your full name and TZ so I take you to Din Torah for calling me a Rasha, and perhaps R. Slifkin will wish to join the Din Torah after you wished upon him Yimach Shmoy. I am reminded of a gathering of the Moetzes Gedoylei HaTorah soon after the creation of the Medine. At that asifa, one of the members of the Moetzes mentioned David Ben Gurion, which prompted one of the other members to shout Yimach Shmoy v’Zichroy! Immediately following that outburst the Chazoyn Ish turned to that member and asked him the following shayla: “Tell me, if David and Paula Ben Gurion were not blessed with children and DBG would pass away, would Mrs. Ben Gurion be Zekuka L’Yibum?” The other member thought for a second and then responded: “ A vadeh!” To which the Chazoyn Ish proceeded to tell him: “Well the entire reason for performing this Mitzve of Yibum is Sheloy Yimoche Shmoy M’Yisroyel. So how can you accordingly wish to blot out his memory?!”
2. While I indeed know R. Slifkin and consider him to be both a first rate talmid chochom and scholar, he most certainly did not put me up to making my outburst (I did not even see him that evening); I had absolutely no intention of making a scene and had full intention of listening to the Roshei Yeshiva with an open mind and formulate my own opinions. HOWEVER, once R. Feldman began telling lie after lie (e.g., 2 million Israelis are NOT intermarrying in Los Angeles; the total number of Israeli citizens in LA is only 27,000 (including Israeli Arabs) and as opposed to the general Jewish population in LA, which Rochmona L’tzlan has a 50% intermarriage rate, the Israeli community of LA has “only” a 25% intermarriage rate, so accordingly, the total number of Israelis in LA who have intermarried is no more than 5,000. R. Feldman falsely inflated the correct figures by 40,000%!!!) I continued to hold my peace; yet once he started spreading vicious and blatant lies about the Chativos Choshmonaim, I was unable to control myself. First of all, R. Feldman claimed that 200 members of Choshmonaim have already gone off the Derech! I know of none and they are being very closely monitored, and moreover, I do not think this brigade has even recruited 200 yet (and we already know R. Feldman’s figures are grossly inflated)! Second of all, the story about the brother of his talmid in Net Yisroel who volunteered into Choshmonaim and was forced by his commander to carry his cellphone all of Shabbos on the very first Shabbos in the army is patently false as anyone who has ever served in basic training will attest. In Shabbas during basic training there is NO training whatsoever and the soldiers may and the frum ones do wear Shabbos clothes and certainly do not carry their phones. And it was only when R. Feldman proceeded to tell the following lie did I lose my composure: R. Feldman continued to say “And what happens when there is a shayla in Hilchos Shabbos? Does the shayla get paskened by a musmach who learned a few years in yeshiva?! NO! The shayla gets paskened by his commander who cannot possibly address these shaylas!” This is when I lost it and said, “This is not true! None other that HaRav Osher Weiss paskens these shaylas for חטיבת חשמונאים!” At which point the organizer from the Agudim organization from Modiin Illit shouted at me saying “YOU CANNOT INTERRUPT THE ROSH YESHIVE!!!” And all I said in response to that was “Midvor Sheker Tirchok!” as I was clearly provoked by the litany of lies said by R. Feldman sentence after sentence – and only then did the audience quiet down as they also knew he way lying. לזכותו ייאמר, R. Feldman said I was entitled to have my outburst and that he would just continue to speak over my response.
3. Please tell me which Beis Din you agree to appear before.
Kol tuv,
Dovid
To those asking, rasha Slifkin proudly boasted online that he put up this act to attack HaGaon HaTzadik HaRav Aharon Feldman shlita. Anyone can easily find online apikorus Slifkin’s own postings from before this event soliciting people to come to the above event to attack Rav Feldman and the other Rabbonim shlita.
Mr. Slifkin has literally spent every day of his life over the last ten plus years going online to attack all of the Gedolei Yisroel shlita and all Chareidim. This is all he lives and breathes for.
This post title “HaRav Aharon Feldman Treats Man Yelling At Him With Care And Respect” isn’t correct. Rav Feldman’s first response of “Please do not interrupt me” wasn’t said in a caring respectful tone. The tone of it implied Rav Feldman was attempting to shut him down, there was no trace of care and respect there.
Only after the yeller was shouted at by others, then Rav Feldman apparently changed his mind and said that the yeller could say whatever he wants, it seems to me a bit contradictory
This post title “HaRav Aharon Feldman Treats Man Yelling At Him With Care And Respect” isn’t correct. Rav Feldman’s first response of “Please do not interrupt me” wasn’t said in a caring respectful tone. The tone of it implied Rav Feldman was attempting to shut him down, there was no trace of care and respect there.
Only after the yeller was shouted at by others, then Rav Feldman apparently changed his mind and said that the yeller could say whatever he wants, it seems to me a little bit contradictory
“To those asking, rasha Slifkin proudly boasted online that he put up this act to attack HaGaon HaTzadik HaRav Aharon Feldman shlita. Anyone can easily find online apikorus Slifkin’s own postings from before this event soliciting people to come to the above event to attack Rav Feldman and the other Rabbonim shlita.”
According to his website, he solicited people not to attack anyone, but rather to protest any lies and slander that would be stated. (The comment here from Kohelet shows that lies and slander were indeed stated and were suitably protested.) If there is something that he wrote differently elsewhere, please share a link and quote it.
“Mr. Slifkin has literally spent every day of his life over the last ten plus years going online to attack all of the Gedolei Yisroel shlita and all Chareidim. This is all he lives and breathes for.”
That’s odd, he seems to be the director of a popular museum about the animals of Tanach that teaches Torah to people of all streams, including charedim.
Dovid the Rasha: Central Rabbinical Congress in New York. I don’t have a TZ.
Slifkins books were banned and his site is loaded beyond with heresy on rationalist Judaism or whatever its called, stay extremely far. Rav feldman has the status of hadol hador and tremendous tzaddik, it’s safe to get behind him
And if you have doubts about manis friedmans teachings, you’re correct. Rav feldman called it out as inaccurate and foolish. Only angry secular or leftist jews with no respect for rabbanim seem to have a issue with this, because they don’t like the truth
Anyone who could even fathom sticking up for slifkin after it’s so known what he’s been up to all these years and how horrible the things he says about tremendous rabbis that gave their life to the Torah while he blogs online and curses them instead should really really reconsider their commitment to Judaism
@Torah Truth – Had not shown empathy? Is there a Yeshivah in the world who is not saying Tehillim daily (some since the first intifada) THREE TIMES A DAY? Lakewood, Telz, Mir, Baltimore, Chaim Berlin,… A mother of one of the chatufim said publically “only the chareidim know the names of the hostages. Did you see, on October 7, the throngs of people in Har Nof seeing their neighbors off as they were leaving ON YOM TOV to fight amidst the tefilos and tehilim of those neighbors? Did you sleep even ONE night on a board since October 7th, let alone two years of nights the way Rav Kolodedsky did?
Empathy. Was it a leftist, a non-Shomer Shabbos who provided the soldiers with showers, washing machines, supplies, food, etc.? NO!
It is well known that in ’48 nobody could tell the Gerrer Rebbe about ANY Yiddisheh tragedy for it took too great a toll on his health.
Where is the “gevura” in lying and slandereing some of the finest Yidden that we have seen in 2000 years?
All of the speakers on that podium were meSaleif Torah Judaism that night.
You can tell just by the commenters that run to stick up for these Heretics are the same commenters that spit at rav Lando and rav shternbuch publicly and make light of every charedi misfortune. That’s the type of Jews we have here so when they run to respect a controversial banned person or to speak against the rosh yeshiva of ner yisrael (a place producing thousands of bnei torah) we know it’s their same brand of disrespect and rishus as usual
They are to be ignored and condemned because they are not respecting our leadership and instead choosing to honor people who have turned against them. There’s a reason you’re the commenter here and he’s the rosh yeshiva and member of moetzes. The minute you disrespect those two positions you show your real colors
@Yisachar – HaRav HaGaon Rav Asher Weiss may indeed set halachic policy for the battalion. He does not take calls, on the spot, on Shabbos, to determine when chillul Shabbos is permitted, if the decided protocol applies in this particular situation. HaRav Feldman let the man speak. How about letting the Rosh Yeshiva speak? How about letting Rav Weiss speak?
The Mishnah teaches us “mitzvah goreres mitzvah and aveirah goreres aveirah.”
The litmus test, therefore, is something is a mitzvah, a true expression of Ratzon HaShem and of His Toras Emes, is if another mitzvah comes from it.
Rav Feldman expressed tremendous kovod haBriyos and Ahavas Yisroel with his response. The other fellow did not.
Who, may I ask, is busy with Mitzvos? Who, may inquire, is speaking Toras Emes?
Interesting.
I would have thought that a talmid chacham would respond to a kashia, rather than ignore it, ie, “talk over him.”
I would have thought that a talmid chacham would WELCOME hearing a limmud zechus about other yidden (their shailos go to Rav Asher Weiss) rather than the limmud chov he was told by someone else (their shailos go to someone who never learned in a yeshiva).
Or he would, at the very least, seek clarification as to whether he had gotten his facts wrong when being melamed chov.
Yes, very interesting.
riva:
Because, according to the Torah, the Zionists wars are obviously not anything specifically Jewish (other than some of the combatants) and certainly not “milchemes mitzvah”.
“Kohelet”:
The Chazon Ish story is a technicality, which means that the proper appellation for a heretic would be SR”Y, not YM”S.
It’s not worth debating nonsense but just to illustrate, regarding your absurd claim that it was proper to interrupt the R”Y’s rhetorical question about who paskins shailos, with you stating that it’s Rabbi Asher Weiss:
Obviously, Rabbi Asher Weiss is not consulted every single time any commander has to make a decision in real-time on Shabbos (and other times, for that matter). The R”Y was, of course, right, and whoever it was that interrupted should obviously not have done so.
@anIsraeliYid Zionist:
As a Zionist idolater, you are obviously nogeia baDavar and therefore even if you had proper neemanus, you’re “testimony” about anything to do with Zionism would still be worthless.
And everyone knows that the express purpose of the Zionist army is shmad, regardless of the motivation of anyone who serves in that army.
@TorahTruth:
You really need to change your screen name.
No, they have given their lives in the service of the Zionist army and its commanders, for whatever mission it is that they were sent to do. Some of that could have included saving Jewish lives.
But that’s all besides the point. It is forbidden to join that army. Period. If somebody were to join an idolatrous army anywhere in the world, and convert to another religion in the process and then happen to save some Jews, the Torah’s actual reaction would be that he should have remained a Jew where he could be a good Jew and let G-d worry about His world. Same here.
Here’s a list of at least I know of tremendous gedolei torah that have completely forbid joining the Army. You want to knock these names? Who are you? Most likely a nobody. 1) rav Ovadia yosef AND his son’s who are chief rabbanim. 2) rav dov Lando. 3) rav shternbuch. 3) rav Segal. 4) rav Hirsch 5) rav zilberstein 6) rav povarsky 7) rav Salim. 8) rav Berman. I can keep going. Whether you like it or not these are the names on the top of the pyramid today, verified for their vast depth of knowledge in Torah and Authority. You want to come say they’re morons or their mistaken and don’t know the Torah? The fact that you’re even that stupid is incredible, how you could even dare suggest such a thing. But go ahead and keep suggesting it it will only make your hole deeper
LOL, Reb Emes. Which one of those mentioned Gedolei Torah would approve of you batteling away (batteling as in Bittul Torah) your time on the Moshav Leitzim Treifene Internet?????
“And everyone knows that the express purpose of the Zionist army is shmad”
That ship had looooong ago sailed. I’m not saying that the IDF is Shmad free, the internet is just as ruchniyosdig dangerous, you certainly know well how far down one can fall with just a few clicks, but to assert that today in 2025 that the express purpose of the Zionist army is shmad is simply ludicrous
“Rav Feldman expressed tremendous kovod haBriyos and Ahavas Yisroel with his response.”
Did you listen to the clip Shuali? First Rav Feldman totally dissed him off and warned him not to interrupt
@ Shuali the answer is yes. I live in Yerushalyim and Lakewood and there are many, many Shul’s and Yeshivos that don’t say Tehilim or speak in support of the Chayalim. Some may say Tehilim in general about the situation but that was not the point. One Rav told me that he would not say anything positive about the Chayalim until they say positive things about the Lomdei Toirah. Know your facts… oh this the internet where facts don’t matter. Sorry
HaKatan Your comment is too nonsensical (Google the word) to deserve a response. I wouldn’t expect anything else from a HaKatan
@Hakatan
I’m not necessarily a huge fan of Zionism, but I have a question for you…
Have you ever sought approval or haskama from your rabbeim about anything you write? There’s no way the R”Y z”l or the current Roshei Yeshiva approve.
Sincere question: Do you think Hashem looks down upon your vendetta-like mission to rip on anything Zionist and smiles at how you’re going about it?
Facts are stubborn things & they have a nasty way of ruining the party for those who don’t care about facts.
Rav Asher Weiss is the posek & he paskens shaalos for the Chashmonoim battalion.
I see nothing wrong with someone pointing out this fact
I think the people here knocking the Gedolim Should learn Sharei Teshuva, very scary things happen to the people knocking our Gedolim!
@Shlomo 2 – Question require answers.
Answers don’t. And a Talmid Chachom knows the difference between the two.
@wackyway:
It’s even more true now than then.
@TorahTruth:
Please change your screen name ASAP.
@yeshivaisbetter:
Facts are indeed stubborn things. The reason it was wrong for this rude individual to point out that fact is that it is irrelevant. The R”Y pointed out that at least “on the ground”, as situations arise, it is the commanders that are making decisions – obviously not Rabbi Asher Weiss or anyone else.
@jonnysmith:
If one were to write “I’m not necessarily a huge fan of hinduism” then one would realize that there is something very wrong with that statement. “I’m not necessarily a huge fan” would be something to write about, say, pizza, not about the greatest force of shmad and meridah baHashem on the planet that has ensnared millions of Jews over a century.
Kol haMekayeim nefesh achas… is about saving one Jew. Here, this force of shmad has done the opposite to millions and, on top of that, is viewed by many as a good thing for Judaism (including the recent and prior WZO vote debacles) despite it being diametrically opposed to Judaism.
A 5-alarm fire is recognized as a very serious fire. A bomb that flattened a city is recognized as a massive destruction. But Zionism, as cataclysmic and horrific as it is, nonetheless is considered by many to be a good thing (or just something of which we are not the greatest fan, like pizza or the like). That’s the biggest problem IMHO.
When the “State” was founded, the Brisker Rav became physically ill. The Chazon Ish sent to him that he shouldn’t worry because gezeirah raah avida liHibatla. The Brisker Rav responded that this would apply only if it’s recognized as such. But if that gezeirah raah is considered a good thing, then that doesn’t apply.
The Chazon Ish obviously knew that, too, but perhaps he was expecting that people would eventually realize that it is indeed a gezeirah raah.
Regardless, it’s been over 75 years and we are still waiting for this gezeirah raah to be nullified including for everyone to recognize it as such.
@Shuali – Rav Asher Weiss sets the Halachic parameters that serve as the framework for commanders on the ground to make decisions – this is the way Psak works. You seem to expect Rav Asher to be physically on the ground with the troops – something that is obviously not possible.
The role of a Rav in a military context is to give people who ARE on the ground a framework to make decisions – similar to the way a Rav gives guidance to Hatzoloh on how to operate on Shabbos, and then expects people to apply the Halachos to the situations they come across. If something comes up in real time that’s not clear but requires immediate action, the expectation is to make a decision based on one’s best judgement, then ask the Sheila afterwards to know for the next time. This is the way Chashmonaim is designed to work – and the one giving the speech should have acknowledged this fact.
an Israeli Yid
@haKatan – kishmo ken hu – you truly are small-minded.
Please feel free to continue to call me a Zionist – I wear that title proudly. However, unlike you, I acknowledge that there are other Shitos, and those who truly follow (almost all of) them are Kosher Jews even if I think them incorrect on a particular aspect of Halacha or Hashkafa.
HOWEVER – truth is a key aspect of Torah, emphasized repeatedly by Chazal – and when a person or group begins to build a Shita and Hashkafa on a foundation of lies, it can no longer be considered a legitimate expression of Yiddishkeit. That is my issue here – the lies about easily-verifiable facts that are constantly being brought as reasons for positions taken.
I actually find this extremely saddening – there are leaders whom, while I did not follow them, I respected them – and now I am losing such respect.
an Israeli Yid
@HaHakatan
You completely ignored johnnysmith’s actual question: would your rabbeim approve of or be Maskim to what you write?
It’s funny to watch people quote Judaism after they just threw a chief Rabbi under the bus or other great Torah Scholars. They say the blind will become blinder before Redemption. It’s a shame all those who are belittling the biggest rabbis of the generation are not going to be there when the curtain comes down
@rebSheker – our guide is the Torah – and as Chazal themselves said, “Bemakom Chilul Hashem – Ein Cholkin Kavod leRav”. Blatant Sheker is the epitome of Chilul Hashem – so there is no choice but to call it out – regardless of how great a Rav is the one making the statements. It is very unfortunate that this is necessary – I wish it were not.
an Israeli Yid
an Israeli Zionist:
All the gedolim have stated that Zionism is heresy and idolatry. So, if you wear that title proudly, then you are proudly proclaiming yourself to be an idolater and heretic.
Since Zionism is the opposite of Judaism, and posts here presume to follow Judaism, you should explicitly note that you are a Zionist whenever you post anything, so that people are clear why you post things against the Torah.
There is no shitah by any Torah authority of note that recognizes any flavor of Zionism as being compatible with the Torah. As mentioned, the greatest Torah sages of the past century and more have stated and published explicitly otherwise.
@vitalmudo biyado:
That’s not the purpose of this forum, which is supposed to be anonymous Torah-compatible comments.
IsraeliShmad, kind of ironic that it’s you the ignorant commenter on a Jewish News website that decided to Pasken for mankind that the top rabbis of the generation are mistaken in the rulings and don’t have a proper understanding of the Torah. How someone could be so dumb and ignorant is actually astonishing. Keep living that lie until it’s your ashes we step on along with the rest of those rebelling against the Torah with every word they say
I’m not even gonna read any of this stuff written here, but let me write this
When the gedolim of the our time say that our Torah helps the medina, this means not Jewish safety and life, but rather that our Torah helps the medina, then it’s the NIGHT. It doesn’t come out correctly and it should be wrong.
Also when moshiach comes we should say that there was shalom in our community because of the Torah not because of the goyim etc…
anIsraeliGoy: They do not need your respect nor do they want it.
Keep your respect for Herzl, Ben-Guiron and the other apikorsum you value.
@small minded one –
Your logic works like this:
1. Anyone who thinks Zionism is not Apikorsus can not be a Gadol.
2. Therefore, all Gedolim think Zionism is Apikorsus.
Hmm – where’s the flaw in that logic? Let me see – let me see…
@HaKatan, have you ever heard of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy?
@anIsraeliYid Zionist and @Nosson-Nota:
The logic actually works like this. Judaism exists due to mesorah, the tradition passed down from Rebbi to Talmid and on. The recognized and undisputed greatest sages of Torah and Mesorah for the past century and more have all ruled Zionism to be idolatry and heresy (which it obviously is).
Since you seem to believe that there are gedolim who ruled otherwise, why don’t you name those? Then, you can compare their stature to the likes of the Chofetz Chaim, Rav Yosef Yedid, Rav Elchonon Wasserman, the Brisker Rabbanim from Rav Chaim and on, the Chazon Ish, the Satmar Rav, the Gerrer Rebbe and on and on.
Just to save time and rule out the two most likely potential contenders:
Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik noted explicitly that he was breaking from his mesorah (and he was also condemned by the gedolim of his time including Rav Aharon Kotler who stated that Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik was responsible for “all the tuma in America”).
Rabbi Kook’s essentially repackaging of nationalism as liHavdil Torah was condemned by gedolim across the board, with some going further and labeling Rabbi Kook with titles like heretic, false prophet, destroyer in the vineyard of G-d and more.
Dear Kohelet/David – you will no doubt be aware what Chazal says with regards to Talmidei Chachomim – Gacholom Gachalei Aish. Please reconsider your words and look for an appropriate mode of teshuva.
If you have the misfortune of reading anything published by Slifkin it is abundantly clear why the Gedolei Yisroel banned his books. They smelt from a mile away that there is some serious anti Torah hashkofoh that he sprouts. His inability to bow to Rabbonim with greater wisdom and kedusha speaks for itself.
Rabbi Lord Sacks z’l who had a far more prominent role as Chief Rabbi and publicly acclaimed writer and philosopher did the opposite of Slifkin when he was asked to withdraw one of his books by the Gateshead Rov z’l, and that is perhaps one of his greatest acts.
Slifkin’s hatred of Charedi Judaism is disgusting, it is vehement and beyond the level of normal or sensible debate. The fact that it continues is proof in itself that its not coming from emess or Torah.
We should continue to follow our mesorah through thick and thin and daaven that our brethren should be chozer beteshuva bekorov.
@LochNessKugelMonster – first, thank you for the more civil tone – while I disagree with you for reasons I’ll get to shortly, I appreciate your wish that those whom you see as mistaken do teshuva – rather than hoping to dance on the ashes of such people as someone else here wished.
As to disagreeing with the speakers at this gathering – Chazal are the ones who said “Bemakom Chilul Hashem – Ein Cholkin Kavod loRav” – a Memra that seems to pretty clearly apply here, where the “facts” that were cited by the speakers as support for their positions were obviously and demonstrably false. In such a situation, the membrane I cited seems much more relevant than the one you did.
As to what you think of the positions taken in the books you noted – they may not be mainstream in the Yeshiva world, but they are not Kefira. Just to cite one incident supporting this – Rav Yakov Kamenetzky ZT”L was once asked if believing in evolution and a universe that is millions of years old is Kefira or Apikorsus – and he said no. He explained that while this was contrary to the majority of Rishonim, there were Rishonim who believed that the description of Maasei Bereishis was not literal – and that one who held that way could not be said to be going against the Ikrei Emuna.
There’s a concept of Eilu v’Eilu with respect to Halacha and Hashkafa – we do not need to agree on these to recognize each other as legitimate. However, there is no Eilu v’Eilu with respect to FACTS – and that is the issue with the positions expressed by the speakers.
an Israeli Yid
@HaKatan
The Ponevezher Rav did not consider Zionism heresy or idolatry
Dear anIsraeliYid – your comments about evolution are fair, and I am well aware that there are different views held, some of which have backing from Gedolei Yisroel. Without wishing to open the Slifkin affair, there are two important points which are I believe are important to highlight:
1) Rabbi Lord Sacks z’l took a careful and modest approach when he was asked to withdraw extracts in his book. He bowed to the greater Torah scholars of his generation. Slifkin is a knowledgeable person in his areas of study, but he can not, and will not claim to be on the level of Torah and Yirah of the many Rabbonim who asked him to withdraw extracts in his books. He chose to fight a battle, rather than show an element of modesty to people of far greater Torah wisdom and Yiras Shomayim.
2) Slifkin’s writings since the event have been vindictive, harsh and written with a tone and content that seems to reflect on a far deeper problem with his haskofo and values which perhaps the Gedolei Yisroel were able see from the outset. There would be many in the dati leumi camp who would be embarrassed of some of his comments.
I completely recognise there are and will always be different approaches and schools of thought, but within traditional Torah Haskofo (from the widest definition of the word) there are certain boundaries one does not cross, and I believe Slifkin has crossed those boundaries on multiple occasions.
@LochNessKugelMonster – thank you again for the civil and reasonable tone.
I think a key difference between Rabbi Sachs ZT”L’s response and that of Rabbi Slifkin is where they were at the time and the tones taken in each case by those who objected to their respective writings. Rabbi Sachs was already a well-known and well-respected figure who was asked to withdraw some of his writings – presumably by people who’d actually read what he wrote. Those who decided to go after Rabbi Slifkin went to Rabbonim and told them that the books were full of Kefira – and the books were banned without (a) ever being read by the banners, and (b) the banners ever speaking to Rabbi Slifkin.
You or I may not agree with Rabbi Slifkin’s writings or tone since then – but given how he was tried and convicted by “the Gedolim” without their ever speaking with him to hear his side, it is, unfortunately, understandable. Rabbi Sachs ZT”L was an amazing person on a human level – so holding someone who had been seriously aggrieved to Rabbi Sachs’ standard of behavior is unrealistic and unfair.
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliGoy: Again, your consistent attacks against Gedolei Yisroel shlit”a and zt”l put you in the company of the likes of Moses Mendelsohn and Baruch Spinoza. Your false claims and lies against the Gedolim that they didn’t read the kefira and apikorsus of Rasha Slifkin is a pure canard. Do you really believe if someone writes heresy in a foreign language the Rabbonim shlit”a are precluded from declaring him a heretic since he got away with the apikorsus by writing in a foreign tounge? The Gedolim absolutely read a translation of what Kofer Slifkin wrote. Your being unaware of that does not give you license to falsely claim otherwise.
And as multiple others have pointed out above, Rasha Slifkin’s activities, actions, speech and public postings over the last ten plus years of consistently, constantly, unabashedly daily attacking the Torah world, the Gedolei Yisroel shlit”a and zt”l, Bnei Torah and Chareidim in general, have abundandly more than proven correct all the Gedolim who years ago said Slifkin is a rasha merusha.
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@Joseph – my, you are just sooooooo creative with names – “anIsraeliGoy” – so original!! Your mommy must be so proud of you.
In any case – you are typical of the ones here who make all kinds of unsupported claims, then act like they’re indisputable Torah miSinai, and anyone who disagrees with them is a Kofer. News flash – Rav Yisroel Belsky, ZT”L, DID NOT consider Rabbi Slifkin’s books to be anything kind of Kefira. How do I know this? Easy – I asked him.
So go play in the sandbox with your Neturei Karta and Lev Tahor buddies – you’ll find some real Kefira there. The adults here want to discuss a topic in a civil manner without intersections by mental midgets who think that their saying something makes it so.
a proudly Israeli Zionist Yid
@anIsraeliYid
I don’t buy the argument that numerous great, experienced and knowledgeable Gedolei Rabbonim would sign a letter on no information, it is flawed. Yes there are Rabbonim who did not wish to ban his books but plenty did. No one signs a letter without due diligence, it is a flawed argument.
I will teach you a fail proof test. If someone is perceived to have done something wrong but you are not totally sure if he was judged correctly at the time (we don’t have the eyesight of the Gedolei Rabbonim…..), follow the accused’s behaviour over the next few years/decades. If his behaviour, comments and adherence stays within the fold then the assessment of his original behaviour was either mistaken or he has repented from his original mistake.
If his behaviour takes a different trajectory and he writes and speaks in a way that is completely against our mesorah, attacking the Gedolei Rabbonim and everything that is precious to us in a cynical and self defeating way, it is clear that the original assessment was spot on. Unfortunately this assessment has been proven correct on too many occasions throughout our history.
I’m confused. The Gedolim said that Slifkin’s books are kefirah, because he says that sometimes Chazal made incorrect statements about the universe. But virtually all the Rishonim and numerous Acharonim say that Chazal were wrong about where the sun goes at night? That’s also in the sefer about Zmanim by Rav Aharon Notis from Lakewood.
@anIsraeliGoy: You, as always, again didn’t even attempt to answer the point presented — since you have absolutely no answer. Both @LochNessKugelMonster and I have made this point that you choose to ignore.
The Gedolim who banned Rasha Slifkin as a Kofer read his writings and based their ban on what they clearly read in his heretical books.
You falsely and without a shred of evidence claimed the Gedolei Yisroel banned it “without (a) ever being read by the banners”.
Put up or shut up. You have nothing to put up other than your blatantly and patently false claim.
Your new point that there were some other Rabbonim at the time who said the book wasn’t kefira, is irrelevant to your above lie about, and false attack against, the Gedolim who said it is kefira.
And, as @LochNessKugelMonster and I and others have pointed out multiple times, Kofer Slifkin’s behaviors, activities and public statements in the last ten plus years since he was banned have proven absolutely and undoubtedly correct the Gedolei Rabbonim who declared him a kofer and rasha; Slifkin has spent over a decade viciously, falsely, maliciously, savagely, depravedly, reprehensibly, spitefully and wickedly attacking the greatest of the great Gedolei Yisroel on a daily and repeated and unceasing basis.
You can simply review Rasha Slifkin’s still online daily public postings over the last 10+ years, displaying this ugly behavior.
@LNKM – unfortunately, it has been shown on more than one occasion that great Rabbanim signed letters based on information from people whom they trusted – but who were actually far from trustworthy. An example that immediately comes to mind is when Rav Chaim Kanievsky ZT”L signed a letter of support for Elior Chen – the leader of a sick cult that practiced some pretty awful forms of physical abuse of children, with results that included permanent brain damage and, I believe, death. When Rav Chaim was asked how he could sign such a letter, he said that he saw the signatures of those who were greater than him (as if – it was his extreme modesty that made him see them that way), so he signed. It therefore is unfortunately quite credible that Rabbanim who do not understand English would sign a letter banning something based on what they were told by trusted individuals – without actually fully understanding the subject matter they are banning.
I think too that your foolproof test is quite fallible. Firstly, we believe that one is supposed to be judged “ba’asher hu sham” – based on his then-current status, not what he may or may not become. Second, I find that while I may often not agree with the tone taken by R’ Slifkin, I have not been subject to the unjustified attacks that he has been subject to – and as Chazal said, “Al tadin chavercha ad shetagi’a lem’komo”. As such, and knowing that a Rav whom I had significant respect for and who was a known expert in both Hashkafa and practical science actively refused to ban his books, I stand by my earlier assertions.
Note that I respect your viewpoint and your civility in expressing it – thank you. There is no need for us to agree on all points – just to acknowledge that the fact that we may disagree does not mean that either of us is a “Kofer”, an “Apikores”, or any of the other names too often thrown around here. Different Shitos are part of our history – and do not negate one’s value as a Ma’amin.
an Israeli Yid
@Nosson Nota – exactly.
an Israeli Yid