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follick, right, but it is “compensated” by women marrying late and, thus, having less difference in age.
Population growth is not the only reason for age differences over time – wars and hard work kill men; childbirth kills women; recently (?) asian society get rid of girls before or after birth, esp when Chinese gov allowed one kid only
general observation is when there are more men, society is more moral (women demand marriage), when there are more women, other way around.
We tried filtering at some point when some kids were going thrtu phases. At the end, what should work for anyone who knows how to find things online yourself is to have a healthy relationship with kids, teach them interesting things and what is right & wrong, and let them use computers/internet productively to learn things, communicate with friends, etc.
opendns is free and it lets you create your own filters. Maybe there are already good setups.
somejew, Yes, there are some rabonim in old and recent history woh declare each other kofrim, etc. At the same time, there are others who disagree with each other (sometimes implicitly) but respect each other. See Chaim’s posts, for example. I think we should not be machmir on machlokes, and accept those who are accepted by at least some of other T’Ch.
I think we need to appreciate who complex und uncertain the modern world is. I guess Hashem thinks we are ready to take on such challenges. Nobody had a good answer to haskala, to Reform, to communism, to Zionism, … For example, here was an opinion in another thread that religious Jews could have lived peacefully under Arabs without Zionists. Is this a reasonable supposition for 1920s? Absolutely, yes. But now 100 years later – is it? Of course, no, seeing all the terrible regimes that existed in Arab countries in the last 100 years. So, T’Ch may express different opinions and not know which one will be right. I know at least, R Eliashiv who responded “I do not have ruach hakodesh” when another Rov pointed a mistake. Maybe some T’Ch thought they did, but this example shows that at least some did not. So, don’t be so harsh on those _you_ think are wrong.
qwerty > why mainstream Jewish media covered the Kinnus Hashluchim but Chabad never publicizes events like the Agudah Convention.
they are not different from others. Grand Daf Yomi Siyum did not include anyone outside of Agudah shitah, despite all words about klal Isroel. Same message – we are descendants of amoraim, others are not.
Historian? Assyria was in current Northern Iraq. Mosul is Ninve. ISIS destroyed what Arabs thought was kever Yonah there. Syria is Aram.
akuperma > If the Hareidim were running the yishuv in Eretz Yisrael, as was the case in the pre-zionist era, we wouldn’t be war with the Islamic world.
Look, I am sure someone said that during 1930s or even 40s – and it was a reasonable supposition. With all the wars that happened in muslim countries from that time, you really think Jewish community would live peacefully under Homeini/ISIS/Assad/Arafat?
I presume if you were to live in 1910s Russia, you would say – let me stay in my frum shtetl, the rabbis will find a way to live with Communists? Or you would do like Chofetz Chaim who ask his SIL to take a train on Shabbos to get visas from USSR to Lithuania
ubi > many people aren’t in charge of their own hours
it is true, but there are so many people asking for a slight change in their hours at work: people who do not want to be stuck in traffic commuting downtown start 6am, parents who need to drop kids off start 9am … these days, there is real traffic only on wed-thur, the rest of the days are mostly WFH … asking to leave early on Friday used to be a big deal 30 years ago (when I worked for others), now you don’t expect an answer to your email fri to mon, unless you are talking to a workaholic.
I found this interesting quote from Rav Avraham Moshe Avidan (IDF Rav, connected to Hesder yeshivot, I think) who used to ask questions and learn from R Eliashev over many years:
The question concerned an individual who was about to join the Mossad. To qualify, he had to undergo training for how to behave in enemy territory. As part of his training, they wanted him to violate Torah issurim.“On the ground in a hostile country, it’s pikuach nefesh and presumably permitted, but this was just training — should the man train to eat non-kosher or to violate Shabbos? We didn’t know what to say.
“We went with the individual in question to Rav Elyashiv. He refused to permit it, saying that in the middle of an operation, when it’s pikuach nefesh, he was permitted to do these things, but not during training. What shocked us was that Rav Elyashiv broke down exactly what the Mossad’s needs were, what they were practicing and for what purpose, and following that, what precisely the halachah should be. I asked myself, how does he know so much about the inner workings of the Mossad?
Was learning more about R Eliyashev, and Mishpacha magazine (is it reliable?) says R Kook made the shidduch to daughter of R Arya Levin. Another source says that R Kook was also mesader kiddushin.
HaKatan > that doesn’t mean that Rav Moshe would have allowed public gemara lectures to women, while Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik taught them himself.
exactly this. Gedolim may have held different positions but still respected, not just tolerated, each other. This is, like, should not be news – we have pages and pages of Gemora filled in with serious arguments between Talmidei Chachomim, mostly respectful with occasional flare ups.
It may be that some opinions, when followed by many, require destroying legitimacy of others for self-preservation. For example, Rashbi and his son looked down on working people, and nobody would tell them to go to work or army. But, let’s say 1000s of less talented people try the same lifestyle (as gemora says – many tried but failed) – it becomes difficult to explain to your neighbor, who is at comparable level, – and to yourself – that you can be a burden to the community as Rashbi. But if you can disparage your neighbor, they you’ll feel ok with yourself.
>> “The change is merely psychological.”
> this is a bizzare claim .It is not. You are free to run your own business at any time you want. Groups of people agree to start schools/businesses/government offices at certain time. Currently, so many people have flexible times, it will not matter for a lot of people. Just talk to your boss, if you have one, and suggest you’ll be coming one hour earlier during winter.
Neville, in those old days, we would not have a problem following minhag hamakom, because we would be from that makom. I do agree that we need to thank chassidim for breaking up communities and opening options, they were ahead of their time, before bund/communistim/tzionim.
> If you make a sphard shul, you’ll disappoint the Ashkenazi-daveners,
Maybe let’s separate between shul policies and personal behaviors. I enjoy davening to sephardi/chasiddic/modern shuls, I daven my own nusach quietly and have no problem to their minhagim overall. As long as they do not force ME to wear a spodak or shorts & sandals.
Incidently, R Soloveichik writes about his childhood memories of peddlers changing their appearance on shabbos into royal garbs. And then going back to peddler clothing after shabbos.
A serious question wheter a shul is for community or not. I think there is a concept of proviate minyanim both in old times and recently. So, a town or neighborhood should have one shul that is welcoming everyone, and those who do not want to welcome everyone can have their private shul. But this resolves the issue?
Neville > The only reason the leftists are learning Tanach is to make fun of it and/or claim that it’s outdated, bigoted, etc.
Is this so? I see online a lot of articles where people try to analyze a parsha or a gemora according to their understanding and maybe trying to line up with their opinions on other topics. It is hit & miss, sometimes they come up with interesting ideas, more often with interesting questions. I do not see much higher biblical criticism around, but maybe it is just my tiktok feed … yours might be different.
I agree on mistranslation, see ^ how to fix that. The gendered version seems to be a recent thing.
Interesting question about non-religious doing online texts. This might be a qood question for when gedolim will be coming from the native digital generation. So, let’s wait another 50 years. Not knowing the background, my impression was that the core Sefaria team is kosher, given that their core/initial product is kosher texts, and the unmoderated sheets are a later addition and is really simply a tool for others to post their messages. Do you think all YWN software was written by shomer shabbos programmers or 99% of it is open software?
Hakatan, as you are consistent in your views, I’ll address the American side even as R Kook is a more interesting case. R Moshe and RJB didn’t simply collaborate, they were cousins who alternated calling each other before every yomtov. Family didn’t tell RJB when R Moshe was niftar out of concern for his health, but he figured out in a month when he didn’t get a call and called himself.
This discussion shows how we lost the idea of a community focusing instead on personal minhagim. R Berel Wein says that if there are 100 Yidden in a town, Hashem wants to have 1 shul with 100 people. Yidden make 10 shuls with 10 people each and end up with 11 shuls 9 people each. The fact that this idea is foreign to a number of people here is very sad.
123, to clarify, the age gap is due to a large number of children on some communities. Thus, number of people who are 5 years younger is more than before. This is a historical abnormality, maybe a sign of moschiach coming. In older times, there were as many children, but majority didn’t survive. Most modern societies have way less children of course.
A good point about shabbos. But does it really matter anymore? Half of the country is not working, and the other half is working remotely. In either case, you can daven whenever you want
Never mind , Bidens already have a virtual library that they kept on hunter’s laptop
I just want to say that I don’t think I am biased in this debate – I did not learn R Kook’s Torah and did not learn in old Yishuv and none of my relatives were involved on either side, I am just following publicly available data. I studied a little closer similar machlokot in USA and I came to the conclusion that gedolim from different shitahs were often respectful with each other (not everybody, of course) – way more than what the followers are saying. For example, it seems that R Feinstein, R Soloveitchik, Lubavitcher Rebbe were all on friendly terms with each other. So, I would not be surprised that the picture is similar in EY.
Chaim > Its also well known that he tried to make shalom between R Kook and R Y Chaim Sonnenfeld.
The way I read it in a (Hareidi) sefer – Chofetz Chaim cancelled his trip to settle in the apartment on Petach Tiqwa (on now rechov Chafetz Chaim) explaining that if he comes to Petach Tiqwa, he would surely need to go to Yerushalaim, and he would need to choose who to visit first – Yishuv Yashan or R Kook. Whomever he will visit first, the other group will reject Mishna Berurah … So, he would rather see everyone reading MB than being there himself in person.
And, right, quoting Rav Yedid and similar others is not the point – we all agree that there were people who totally rejected R Kook’s approach. The proposition we are arguing is whether there were serious talmidei chachomim who respected R Kook and to what degree. So far, the evidence seems to be that many respected in public and the question is was it genuine respect or a fake one.
HaKatan, thanks for an interesting reference. So, it is not just your opinion … I do not see anything in this piece except a confirmation that a number of gedolim were publicly respectful to R’Kook and unverifiable personal stories that they were not respectful in provate. Like Chaim ^, I find it hard to believe that gedolim were so frightened to behave like that for many many years … Think, how many people (like Chaim and me) would be mislead by reading their words over these years. This is just overturns the idea that you look at a chacham and trust what you see.
If I were to imagine being forced to acknowledge kefirah for some halachically valid reason, like getting funds for my community, I would surely get a signed shtar with witnesses testifying for my true views so it will be published later.
Neville, yes, I did not believe that this is the reason for the shidduch crisis in a discussion here a couple fo years back, then I did some math and had to eat my (metaphorical) hat. I still have the leftovers!
I also think there are additional reasons that make the crisis worse:
1) boys are more comfortable to look for shidduch in less safe places. That is, at an equal level of observance, the boy will be more inclined to look for a shidduch at a university, club, etc.
2) requirements for girls are not high in terms of their effort – keep tznius, go to the right seminary, master the art of cosmetics, and develop a desire to marry a talmid chochom or/and baal middos. Boys are required to exert serious effort in learning or/and earning a living.
In other words, number of girls who develop a desire to “marry a talmid chochom” is way more than number of boys that actually succeed in becoming one! The double whammy here is not only girls have difficulty achieving their goal, their real nissayon starts after that – as in some cases where they are raising the kids; earning a living; and finding out deficiencies in the husband’s learning or middos.
nisht > It does not seem to be the responsibility of the tzinur
and, of course, it is responsibility of the tzibur to provide Yidden with, in order (1) mikva, (2) school, (3) shul. And that means to all kosher Yidden. There are numerous stories about schools asking gedolim whether they are allowed to expel someone from school, and the answer is usually along the lines – sure, I’ll teach this kid myself. I don’t see why shuls, next on the priority list, are treated differently. Imagine, your neighbor has a chiyuv and you don’t let him say kaddish because he is wearing sandals.
Neville, I know you don’t know these people, but do a thought experiment. American Jews are assimilating at rapid pace for already 4-5 generations. There are millions of Jews in that state. More than half of them are left-wing, so say 20% of those (underestimate) have wacky ideas.
Someone with inside knowledge suggested to me that 6 mln of Am Jews are comprised of 2 mln that are connected and are a growing community, and 4 mln are on the way out, both ideologically and in terms of birth rate (including birthing Jewish kids). So, this would give you 0.5 mln of wacky assimilated Jews. Say, 10% of them have occasional interest in something Jewish. Rather than running to the nearest Chabad house, they might as well search for answers online and get to sefaria.
nisht > whims of people who aren’t interested in following the minhagim of the tzibur.
what is a minhag? What if my minhag not to daven with black Jews, sephardim or hungarians, or people who wear gray socks – would you join my minyan or, I hope, stay away?
I frankly think this post was a prank, trying to see how many people will support the idea.
Neville > Isn’t that the opposite of the point?
Right. Seems to be what is optimal for one person is not optimal for the community. Unstable system.
Actually, it may be not good for the girl also: she might end up marrying later as this is when her age becomes close to chatanim and disbalance decreases – but she and her parents experience a couple of more years of anxiety and this may, H’V, affect her beauty. She would be better of going getting a MS degree before wasting her time applying for MRS degree.
> What’s the chiddush?
here are several interesting examples from R Auerbach –
not making minyan on an airplane not to inconvenience others
if doctors allow someone to leave home once a day – go to work, rather than shul
Tzahal soldiers on R’H should rather go around with a shofar than have a minyan (sounds Lubavitch 🙂Neville, I am surely self-aware. I know my IQ, SAT, GRE, and chess ELO and this keeps me from being too humble!
The serious part of my joke is the idea that I, and other erliche yidden over centuries, would not dare to dress like Talmidei Chachamim. Nowadays, suddenly people who have no self-awareness not only have no problem dressing up, they also consider it inappropriate and “untraditional” to dress otherwise.
R Schach writes that Arab hate towards arriving Zionists was min hashamayim. Otherwise, thy would have ended up going to Universities of Cairo and Beirut and intermarried. If this were to happen, I am pretty sure Chabad would have a shaliach on Cairo campus. As far as I know, Dubai was so far safe. I did not really follow it closely or contemplated vacationing there, but I heard that lots of Israelis were excited to go there, given lack of other local options.
But referring back to R Schach, maybe further peace agreements are contingent on Israelis becoming more observant. Maybe next round of Abraham accords should condition tourist visas on learning Mishna.
HaKatan, thanks for acknowledging that gedolim addressed R Kook respectfully. I never heard before that they did it because of politics. Is this your idea or is this an accepted theory in your circles? Let’s examine: what years did it start? Do you have examples of gedolim of yours that give similar titles to any people who are clearly not kosher?
> why look at stories? Look at sefarim kedoshim
Let’s clarify what we discuss here. There is a differences between disagreeing and disrespecting. Clearly, many rabonim in Jewish history had vehement disagreements, often expressed in seforim. This happens and it is not surprising that this is happening in the turbulent times we live. This happens with much simpler issues. For example, R Gershon Kamenetsky describes in detail how R Eliashev issued a psak banning his book based on incorrect information. Both the ban and the disagreement with the ban no way diminishes mutual respect between them.
I think sefaria is run by computer professionals, trying to create useful products. I still think that core texts and commentaries are kosher, while additional sites like sheets are created by users and are not supervised. As Menachem pointed that default Tanach translation is a little OTD, this means one needs to define the version you want.
I wish there was a cleaner delineation. Say, different site for the unauthoritative materials.
Gadol, I agree with your idea, he can probably even take a bus for the time he spent on this and go visit Canada with his family. I am just pushing this further – every problem is a business opportunity.
I would not criticize him for pardoning his son (aside: same as I would not criticize for poor Mexicans coming to babysit lakewood kinderlach), but I would criticize him for having hutzpah to declare multiple times that he is not going to do that and the, doubling down in a statement saying that “he is keeping his word”. Maybe you can say that he sincerely believed that he is not going to pardon him, and then changed his mind when confronted with reality – and irate wife and son (reports are that everything was decided by family and defense lawyers, no staffers were aware). Maybe, even Hunter hinted that he could rat out the Family in exchange for the pardon from the next President on Jan 21?!
Several nekudos on this story:
1) Hunter will not be able to take the 5th and will have to answer questions if called by Congress
2) I wonder if there are state taxes he did not pay? Foreign problems? Would Ukraine be interested in prosecuting Burisma corruption in exchange for some F-16s or even 35s?
3) pardon extended back to Jan 1, 2014. Could it be that he was planning corrupt actions right after the election between Nov and Jan 2014?
4) there are other family members – big guy’s brother and his wifeNeville, we are all very comfortable talking to each other, while so many Jews with weird views are out there. There are lots of non-O publications and authors who write something Jewish-related.
Participant, presumably Chofetz Chaim did not think that R Kook is exempt from loshon hora laws in this case, which is some info. But look above, a couple of other references that those who disagree did not try disproving.
for example, is there or not a letter from Hazon Ish starting with “HaRav HaRoshi HaGaon Rav”? Can someone verify?
Non-political> Why did you decide that the Halacha follows R’ Yehudah vs. the Tana Kama (Stam Mishna)?
Re: Kiddushin 29 and 31. Other than the idea of learning Torah only, I think range of opinions in other places is either (1) trade or (2) trade and business is also OK … for example, last page of Kiddushin goes thru what kind of trades are good, no suggestions of business. for a simple answer, this is a great place to be machmir, as tanna kamma is not forbidding a trade! We are talking about danger of your children going OTD to become a bandit! I would sell a spodnik and use proceeds to pay tuition.
But to your question: quoting from online pages, so that you could look up sources, sorry 🙂
Gra (60): We learn from R. Yehudah.Aruch ha’Shulchan (OC 156:1): A trade is a good thing. Many err and say that it is disgraceful. One is obligated to teach his son a trade. Many Tana’im and Amora’im had trades. The Medrash (Bereishis Rabah 74) says that Melachah is dearer than Zechus Avos.
Shulchan Aruch (OC 306:6): On Shabbos, one may discuss Shamayim’s desires, e.g. to arrange to hire someone to teach a trade to his son. One may discuss if he wants to be hired, but one may not hire him or mention the wage. Magen Avraham (13): This is a Mitzvah, for if he has no trade, he will steal.
Rif and Rosh (12a and 1:40): One must teach a trade to his son. R. Yehudah says, if one does not do so, it is as if he teaches him robbery.
pro-business – more in modern context
Igros Moshe (OC 2:111 DH b’Davar): Income is decided on Rosh Hashanah, but Hash-m decreed that people will receive it only through work or business
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At the end, this is of course highly personal and depends on current society conditions. I do see a number of people who neglected to get a profession and rely on business and miracles and many of them are not comfortable in life, worry, and have yetzer hara to do things in improper way (for a mild version, see a nearby thread on people hiring illegals because “there are no other options”).DaMoshe > man has an obligation to daven with a minyan.
There are always limits. For example, R Soloveitchik paskened that one can not go into a Conservagogue to hear shofar even if there is no other option. So, one can see if a chasid (shoteh) thinks that black hat is meduoraita to daven without the minyan if the tenth person is wearing a baseball cap.
Gra reference was to
Rema (YD 246:21): If one learns Torah without working, this causes sin and in the end he will steal.Hm, I usually use it for Gemora and related texts and did not see anything like that … Mine default translation for tanach shows as “revised JPS 2023”. Obviously, a recent addition.
And in another option to download data, there are many options, include the one you mention gender-sensitive JPS along many respected ones. Is “revised JPS 2023” the gendered one? If you are right, this is unfortunate. Possibly they simply default to JPS and then take latest, and it is more on JPS for going that route? Or maybe, they indeed went to increase their market share …
After you log in with your username, if you select a text, then on the right “translations” gives you a list of translations for this posuk. After you click on “select” on another translation, that became a default translation for all other books of Tanach
I also did not see much difference between JPS 2023 and JPS 1985 in several pesukim I looked at, none of them refer to Hashem as they/them.
I think he was happy because people who humiliated him by forcing him to step down lost. He feels more affinity to T – especially now when he also complains about judicial prosecution.
So, President Biden pardoned three turkeys, including his son. I think this settles an issue of credibility and all complains by his supporters of credibility of others,= – as he repeatedly said that he will not do this. There seemingly were no changes in circumstances for hatoras nedorim and did not gbother to appeal to beis din anyway . The only l’tzad zhus explanation I have is that the President does not recall saying that he will not pardon his son, or that he is not his son …
ok, same page nas a quote from an author I can stand by. R Wein knows his (our) history and he is not ideological
in his review of this work, Rav Berel Wein stated, “There is so much about Rav Kook that is misunderstood and misportrayed in the Jewish world, that a book that portrays him accurately is invaluable and necessary. This is such a book.”
In a letter from the Chazon Ish to Rav Kook that is seen on p. 374 of this work, we see that the Chazon Ish opened by saying, “HaRav HaRoshi HaGaon Rav Avraham Yitzchak HaKohen Kook, Hod K’vod Maran Shlita.”and this is easy to check (although the site has a caveat – “early on”, so maybe opinions changed after)
“Reb Shlomo Zalman’s classic work Me’orei Esh contains approbations from Rav Abba Yaakov Borochov, Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer, and Rav Avraham Yitzchak Kook. The approbation which appears first is that of Rav Kook.”
“Considering Reb Shlomo Zalman’s aversion to matters of a political nature, it was startlingly unusual when he intervened in the internal affairs of a particular organization. Needless to say, the Gaon’s advice was always sought and welcomed, but in the area of organization politics, no one had ever succeeded in eliciting his response in the past. The issue at hand was whether to accept a certain candidate for a key position in this Torah organization. Reb Shlomo Zalman had recommended not to accept the nominee. His unprecedented intervention was triggered by the fact that the candidate in question always referred to Rav Kook as simply ‘Kook.’”
Dubai is not Egypt. Not that I am advocating vacationing there, and the shaliach there was on a holy mission.
Gadol, I don’t think so. I started buying this way in the early days of internet, when it became possible to quickly find dealerships. I collected fax numbers and faxed them a spec I wanted and then confirmed with a quick phone calls. Ended up with a 2 hour ride to a different state, but it was worth it, at a time.
I am surprised that the closest deal from southern NJ is almost in Canada, though. Should be able to find a good dealer closer to home. Maybe one person stumbled on it, and others followed. It is not that wrong – halocha says to reward a good merchant with your business. That is, if you stayed in a hotel and you liked it, you should stay there next time also. From the description above, it seems that the misunderstanding is not that great. Or maybe yetzer hara to exploit a loophole won …
So, just put a standard agreement, run it by a lawyer – indicating time and method of delivery, and penalties for delay and see if all community members could use it with this dealership. If that does not work out – get on email/phone’/fax and find a reasonable dealer somewhere within 2 hours from you. I would think further south and west should also work. You can even become a middleman, helping your community members in selecting cars and ensuring delivery.
somejew, you don’t need to latch on R Kook in that list, you can start with gedolim more acceptable to you.
And this was discussed before here, there should be a lot of references if you search CR for R Kook. Here is quick one from internet search, I do not know how genuine this is, I am not an expert on R Kook, but there is a book and page that you can get and make your conclusion. Let us know what you think after you read this book, please!
“R. Yitzchak Gerstenkorn, the founder of B’nei Brak, told this story: In 5694 (1934), the Rav [i.e., Rav Avraham Yitzchak Kook] was invited to the groundbreaking ceremony of the Beit Yosef (Novardok) Yeshiva in B’nei Brak…At the ceremony, which the Chazon Ish also attended, Rav Kook spoke at length…Throughout the Rav’s address, the large crowd sat quietly in their seats–everyone but the Chazon Ish. He remained standing throughout the speech, listening attentively to every word. He only sat down when the Rav finished speaking and took his own seat.”
“R. Tzvi Kagan, who was present at the event, added this revealing piece of information: When the Rav’s address began to draw out, people approached the Chazon Ish and suggested that he sit down. The revered rabbi refused, however, saying, ‘The Torah is standing!’”
from An Angel Among Men, by Simcha Raz, p.375; translated by Rav Moshe D. Lichtman
yechiell is a good indicator of qualities of Bibi, Trump, and everyone else he does not like. The more far-fetched his accusation more, the better that person is doing. Do you not see the whole world blooming after the election? Stock market is up, hezbollah surrendered, Russian ruble falling, Ukraine publicly agrees to a reasonable peace plan (that is, based on T’s stated position it is either quick peace or full support of UKR if Russia disagrees), Syria and Georgia rebelled against pro-Iran/pro-Russian governments, all 2 months before the elections.
Hey, hey, I designed a couple of web pages in the 1990s, do not touch that kedusha! Ironically, one Rebbetzin did not agree to post a photo of her family, whether for tzniyus or ayn hara ideas, so we had just the rav’s photo …. ironically – given how many photos are streamed now everywhere
Neville > llegal immigration is a crime.
I think we need to be humane towards such people, especially when they are coming to work. Of course, concentration of such illegals inevitably creates crime around them – people who smuggle them, house them, etc.