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Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
So we need to narrow down the definition of dt.. asking for an advice is not controversial, and my DT, who is antidt, gave me advice multiple times on social and business matters without reluctance, sometimes saying: a very interesting case or, this is my advice/opinion not psak. The other rav who is proDT usually answers in a similar language. I am thinking that dt notion is about ravs opinion overrides yours and maybe even known facts, but I’ll leave it to others to define it
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantGedol, I understand what you are saying. I was going in the opposite direction: starting with gemora references and trying to understand what gemora means by dt, rather than trying to backfill our modern notion into the gemora. That’s for Chulin
For Kiddushin, r Y appears to appeal to dt. Note that both of them are respectful and polite, not using cr language. R Z is expressing his devotion to the teacher by carrying him, and his disagreement to the shidduch by silence and avoidance. R Y explicitly put Torah and daughter in the same sentence, that means he leans on his Torah authority. He also reconstructs R Z halachik thinking about yichus and explains why it is wrong. As gemora mentions the teacher is having a memory lapse here.
Maybe, my guess, because it is personal to him or because he holds strong opinion about EY, not fully letting another student to go meet the crazy mother arriving to Bavel… I am surprised I didn’t see more meforshim on this …Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantprovaxx, thanks for bringing up this story. Seems to be R Salanter’s explanation. It is, of course, to assign benefit to such sincere people, as common also says, not proposing an educational system where information gets corrupted.
Papuniya seems to be a somewhat shady place – if you teach there about benefits of having Satan in the world, he comes and kisses your feet; mikva is allowed during the day because of bandits at night; Great R Aha b’ Yaakov who taught there would shecht a mazik in the abandoned yeshiva building ….
What else can we learn from this R Masna’s lecture? Maybe “know your audience”? If Papunians are not versatile in Hebrew, teach them in Aramaic? Note that it was not one naive student, but all of them.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantcommon, I was not interpreting something wrong, I just foun a gemora relevant to the subject and offered you for your thoughtful analysis.
to your point, this is admirable, although you still have some criteria who is recognized as DT, right? both in hashkofa and level of knowledge.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantGedol, I don’t see how your midrash about etza is related here
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantGedol, I think gemora is relevant and it gives the definition of DT that worked for amoraim. It seems to mean here a certainty in a conclusion that is supported by explicit torah sources rather than an uncertain logical supposition about how Yaakov and the malach were embracing… the apparent fact that some modern people use the expression differently is their problem, not gemora’s
Not insisting on my understanding here, there are more perishing on daf 91 including Chasam Sofer …Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantRebE, I think you are saying that for a real talmid chacham, there is only Hashem’s agenda, not his own kavod, thus he is included into yiras Hashem, no es required. Nice.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantCommon, I Stam found a reference that goes against my previous claim and now happy to discuss implications. Gemora is no chainik. You seem to be unable, or unwilling, to accept any torah statement unless it agrees with your preconceived ideas. You might hold at the lofty madregah that you can easily explain all esim in the whole tanach without any hesitation.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantUbi, this is not just a Stam shadchan,
r Zeiri is learning from r Yochanan in EY, presumably traveled is there to learn from him …and r Yochanan specifically claims daas torah rights after the student demonstrates his respect. So far, I don’t see gemora or commentaries condemning the student, only explaining that this is not rav muvhak situation…Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantChaim, you seem to look at things from political point of view. This is currently a military situation, requiring experience and dedication. You seem to casually compare a prime minister with wealth of military and political experience at highest world level with someone who bio seems to consist of being a lawyer and a politician.
same for BY1212, you do not address all previous successes that Bibi had. Just think of current muted reaction by most moderate Arab countries – that are due to improved relationship under Bibi/Trump that Bibi worked on for a long time. I mention just the recent events, skipping things lioke post-Oslo that may have happened before your bat/r mitzva.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantThere are no easy solutions here. Hopefully Israelis (both IDF and politicians) find the right choice/ trade-off between a need to retaliate harshly and a danger of loss of lives and escalation… one thing people should avoid is pushing decision-makers into a public-opinion boxes in either direction. Hopefully, they make decisions based on sober analysis rather than emotional/political pressure.
For example, it is easy to say that harsh response will regenerate deterrence (at a tremendous cost). But, maybe, a limited operation showing destructive capabilities combined with stronger allied support, will also work? Would someone be pressured to go on offensive to placate supporters or silence opposition? Let’s think how to reduce this pressure.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant> One cow in Palestine is worth more
I don’t think anyone disagrees that there were a lot of things wrong among the Zionists, as well as many non/anti-Zionists of the time (to include bundists, communists and all other isms and parties of the time). I presume if you lived during BM2, you would be against BM because of tzedukim there ..
Akin to cherems on Chasidim, we probably need to look at what is happening now, and also trace current ideas, both positive and negative, to the previous ones. The only difference between 2 issues is that more time passed after Besht than after R Kook, so it is hard to have a fresh look.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantOne ideological problem with 1920s yishuv was their insistence on agriculture and, related, land acquisition. Sochnut centralized all donor funds and directed to those ideological goals. As a result, there was less industry development (in tel Aviv area) and industry had capacity to provide livelihood. As a result, many non-ideological Yidden did not come before it was too late as there were no jobs available.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantujm > Now never mind how R. Teichtel decided he can judge the world and decide whether they deserve Moshiach or not;
thanks for extend quotes from the book as well as your commentary. I think you under-estimating impact of the tragic events that were happening at the time – you dismiss them as irrelevant to halakha. Instead, maybe give credit to someone who was responding to events in real time, whether he was always correct or not, in your opinion.
From what you quote, obviously, he is talking from the position of these events that Munkachever, and many others, did not fully foresee. For an example, when R Yochanan b Zakai establishes Yavne – is he contradicting his teachers who upheld Yerushalaim, just because of a little fact that Romans destroyed the latter? same here, he is trying to interpret his Rebbe in light of the events.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantDaMoshe > somejew: for your second point, the two items aren’t mutually exclusive.
Indeed, Ramban to Gen 26:29 describes that Avimelech is fearful of Yitzhak because both Avraham and Yitzhak were rav koach with 300 armored men (hm, Eisav would have 400) and many allies – so doing both warfare and politics – in addition to limud and kiruv. And Ramban concludes with Maase avot asu banim – applying to Itzhak, but no doubt, we should also take that to heart.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAvira > It’s mainly chasidim who approach tzadikim for advice in business, and the baal hatanya was against this, because money is totally bidei shomayim.
Daas Torah is seeking the Torah’s guidance in life decisions …This may not be the only position, I think. I see 2 issues here
(1) specificity – you somehow separate a decision on what job to take v. stock to pick
(2) logic – are you asking for a binary output, outsourcing decision-making, or are you asking for information that you can process and use in your decision-making.Take, for example, IM CM 2:18, where R Moshe refers to his position to not let kollel members to smoke into faces of other members as “daas Torah” and “clear halakha”. First, it is a very specific issue, 2nd, he lists his arguments – geroma b’nezikin, even if the other is instanis, and even if one smoker is insignificant in the total.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantsqrt, Gedol, thanks for the reference to Chulin: it is even a double one – daas – daas Torah! It looks like it means here that R Yehuda uses logical explanation, that is DT is application of sevorah.
Of course, my Teacher referred (tongue-in-cheek) to Encyclopedia Talmudit – this discussion was before Gemora was online, and he referred to earlier times when the Volume with Dalet just came out, 1980s? so, pre-Netscape and even pre-gopher times …
So, if my source was not aware of this Chulin reference (that probably proves his point) is comparable to R Yohanan apparently forgetting a baraita from R Eliezer that Ezra cleaned up Bavli’s yichus (mods, gemora says that, not AAQ, please …) and, thus, presumably, R Zeiri is correct rejecting DT-based shidduch …
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant> Welcome to the Torah world – we’ve been waiting for you
…
> does that mean you are ready to apologize for your belittling themGedol is ahead of you guys, as he shrewdly noticed, R Shimon Amsuni is at the end correct.
Somehow, you got excited about DT mentioned in Gemora, while you failed to actually look up the sugya and think what does it say about DT .. I am not pushing my own opinion here, interested to hear yours.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantGedol,
we seem to agree on Shimon Amsuni, I view him as a paradigm of real learning despite his obscurity, even his name is in doubt, despite his thick thesis on esim. There are several great explanations about R Akiva’s addition on Talmidei Chachamim to “yeras Hashem”. The one I like the best is that obviously a baki like R Shimon saw this as a possible answer, but preferred to forfeit his life work rather than saying something that he did not feel 100% correct (or maybe self-serving). So, R Akiva’s answer is based on seeing R Shimon’s behavior – that such T’Ch can be included in “yeras Hashem”.This actually gets back to the DT topic – giving a pretty high standard for the DT, not just someone who leared a lot, but someone with impeccable middos, but it is probably assumed in the ideal notion of DT.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantubi > maybe I’m not sure what daas Torah is, suggesting a shiduch is daas Torah?
I’ll leave a precise definition to the DT proponents, don’t want to mess that up.
here r Yohanan is the godol hador and he tells you this is a good shidduch, would you not listen?! and to add to that – his own daughter …And – AAQ adds – R Yohanan modestly talks about his beauty and sits near mikva, and Resh Lakish agreed too re: R Yohana and his sister – so chances are that the daughter was also not ugly.
but all that would be just a deduction, but listen to R Yohana himself: Zeiri carries him over a puddle, proving how much he respects RY as a teacher – and RY says: so my Torah is dear to you, but not my daughter? So, a direct appeal here that Zeiri’s learning should make him agree. Commentaries wax poetic about student as a son, spiritual v. physical yerusha, but I don’t see yet direct answer. I see that RY is not rav muvhak (Zeiri probably learned in Bavel before going to Mitzraim and then EY). Do you see anything relevant?
Even more ironic is the apparent reason Zeiri refuses – yichus in EY is not good enough for this Bavlian. He does not say so, but RY and Gemora presume it. Is he hinting that gedol hador is sofek mamzer or eved or something like that?! hard to understand.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantI was not happy about people in our communities being insensitive to the suffering of others, but now when essentially the same war came to us, and same uav models bomb Ukrainians and Israelis, this attitude borders on insane.
Many Israeli politicians took such position based on real politik considerations and it was understandable, although looks mistaken at this point. But any other person who entertained the notion that we could look calmly at cruelty to others nearby, probably is reconsidering right now and the post ^ is an exception.
October 23, 2023 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm in reply to: The Israel Pogram of 2023 Jewish Massacre #2233918Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantIt seems that a Persian hackr broke into a esteemed poster’s account and besmerched our heimishe anti zionist with bad Russian spelling and geography.
This silly person probably doesn’t know between lviv and lembergOctober 23, 2023 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm in reply to: The Israel Pogram of 2023 Jewish Massacre #2233917Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantSilly Sephardim listened to zionist propaganda instead of staying
in peace in Aleppo, Damascus, Tehran,Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantfunnybone, chochom lomed mikol adam?
and Kiddushin ~70 daf yomi talks about a cherem for someone who goes to another town and does not show verbal respect to the Rav therePS in my town, everyone came together in one shul to daven for refuah, shevuyim, chayalim, regardless of what they usually do intheir shul.
October 22, 2023 11:49 am at 11:49 am in reply to: When will Netanyahu accept responsibility #2233544Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantWe here don’t fully appreciate what Israeli security apparatus is against. We are not often even aware about threats that were eliminated. Every army gets a share of political and bureaucratic leaders during prolonged peace time. As always happens, during a crisis, these really hapless officers will be quickly dismissed from inside.
Bibi lead country thru very difficult times often paired with a US administration that wasn’t helpful. He isn’t reflexive pro war person, as evident by his peace agreements when he had support from US administration. As to political distractions, his opponents are as guilty if not more, and if they call for political changes now, that is even more suspicious. I would trust more the opposition figures who joined the unity government.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantOkok, I didn’t mean to attack blonde Jewish Americans.
Maybe someone in town can conduct an experiment Counting
blonde prevalence on two sides of the mechitza, with and without wigs. Ctl, bshaa tovaAlways_Ask_QuestionsParticipantCtl, I could still be at the same count, if you are the senator’s younger brother. Explains also why jews went so blonde in US, especially women
October 19, 2023 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm in reply to: The final word on Moshiach from the meisim (hopefully!) #2233108Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantsechel, you need to stop for a second and organize your education. You quote things left & right, but then before you never heard of major gedolim, now you never heard of major historical figures 100 years ago. So, you hope that you can convince people about what will happen with the world, while you don’t know what happened in that world in both physical and spiritual domains. I would even ask – if you care so much about Hashem’s ways – why not study what was already revealed in history before speculating about mysteries of the future.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantI know of only one man in politics who recently used a wig to be in public. Most other men wear something on their head, with a minority not wearing anything at their jobs. If wigs were so coo, there would be more men using them.
October 19, 2023 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm in reply to: Israel and Palestinians trade blame for hospital explosion #2233103Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantwhatever we are saying, Arab propaganda news is continuing with the story that (a) Israel bombed the hospital, (b) Israel is now lying about it “as usual” … at some point, their “news page” showed both articles with the above theory and a lesser version that Iron dome hit the incoming missile and parts fell on the hospital.
On the facts, the question is – what actually exploded? probably, explosives that were kept in/under the hospital
Pn propaganda, I am afraid but it may be very effective on arab population that will continue to be inflamed and outraged.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant100 years ago, I think, hats were in vogue and sheitels were considered not tzanua.
Maybe you can talk to poskim and explain your arguments that they may not be fully aware of. If a posek agrees and his wife comes out in a hat, the issue should be solved.
October 17, 2023 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm in reply to: Is there a Drug Problem in the “Frum World”? #2232528Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantthe question is not only prevalence in a community, but also whether it is addressed properly. In general, insular community tend to keep things under the rug and sometimes preventing treatment and making family members suffer.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantI recall posting a bunch of factual questions about r Kotler, r Moshe, r Feinstein, not sure whether internets, ate them or mods considered them too hard
Probably internets, mods would spare at least someAlways_Ask_QuestionsParticipantConsider taking some time to learn your father’s minhagim… if you stop some of your chumros, he can afford to spend some time with you and fulfill the suggestion to teach kids between 17 and 22. At the same time you can get a pt job to pay for the seminary of your choice.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantStarbucks has 🌟 k heksher for limited number of drinks, decreased this year.
The Jewish guy is not the ceo anymore, an Indian one is.
Starbucks is fighting unionization as hard as they can … maybe find a Non unionized store
Starbucks did issue a statement in response that is well … pareve, read it and decide whether it is up to your taste
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantMaybe this article from the front page gives you a hint:
HaRav Zilberstein wrote: “To my dear brothers and friends – I heard that there are bomb shelters that are filled with various belongings, including Sukkah parts. In our many sins, the Midas HaDin is dominant now and bomb shelters must be available – it is a matter of pikuach nefesh.”
“Therefore, I turn to you, dear brothers, at the order of the Mara D’Asrah, to immediately evacuate the bomb shelters – within 24 hours – and it will be pleasant for those who heed this. And if [some residents] chalilah don’t do so, the Vaad HaBayis [building committee] has permission to clear the shelter against their will.”
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantPekak,
There is a difference between not panicking and not taking precautions. I hope you bought hearing aid for your cousin.Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAvira, I don’t want for this to sound like bickering and your post has a lot of good points, but for the benefit of those who might use your example the wrong way: if you happened to be in a place where people make fun of the emergency siren, you should have learnt in a more religious neighborhood. And you know what I mran: having a hat is not the only sign of religiousity; having a working head and respecting challenges Hashem sends is required also.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantChaim,
Presumably at the higher levels they were told that the high-tech wall is doing the job. They also felt smart that were listening to hamas conversations, confirming their views. So, they leveraged resources for other priorities, including other threats, that they considered more important.Could the prime minister also personally walk along the perimeter and review all technical info about new uavs and mine field making? Maybe, but I am afraid there were 100 crazy things happening in Israel that he had to pay attention to. That is where the whole society is at fault for messing up priorities.
So, Israeli government is capable of quickly correcting for the errors and increased cabinet surely has expertise and variety of opinions. Harder to know what wad going on in the peacetime army. If some inferior leaders were appointed over time, IF, it may be challenging to change them in days.
The same wishful thinking of peace dividends happened in other places.. that is why US and EU are scrambling for munitions, Ukraine is going back for months in places they lost in a week.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantI don’t know what was edited out, but overall we seem to be discussing what happened rather than blaming, and Chaim’s points are informed. There is a lot of data in public domain right now to have a reasonable discussion. You can’t stop people from trying to comprehend the tragedy and it is better to have an informed discussion here, under your watchful moderation, than listen to inane rumors. What is true is that official inquiry will have to wait.
“I don’t know what was edited out…” Exactly
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantSimilarity to 1973 is that in both cases government was in the hands of experienced people with previous record of success. Maybe, we should appreciate that when we have a win, it is often a nes and not our zechuyos, and we should not rely on a stam repeat without any additional effort. Or, according to the gemora theory that nes eats up zechuyos, then there may be less left for the second case …
A systemic explanation that I hear from some analysts that it is derech olam that achieving sholom with a bad entity through strength leads to inevitable “peace dividend” that politicians milk to get popularity – redirect expenses, fight against or for windmills, and they shape military leadership that is not too aggressive, and, to top that, you get wishful thinking interpreting enemy behavior l’tzad zechus (interesting how halakha leads us here to the right result – no tzad zechus to reshayim).
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantChaim, agree with your list, add to that
4) interpreting enemy exercises near the wall as political events, given that there were peaceful gestures at the momentWhether there is Bibi’s fault is not very important. If he were a untested leader, this would be a determining event. Given that he is an experienced leader, the question might be – did he lose his abilities due to age, changed environment, too much politics, etc. If not, then he might still be the best person to fix things going forward. And as we know from the story of Rabban Gamliel, dismissing a distinguished leader is not that simple, even when he is not always right. I mean here people who appreciate his service, those who disagree with him are in their right to vote for someone else, of course.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAlso, please note that however tragic the events are now, Israel still has functioning military and intelligence. Nobody is expected to be always successful in a war.
We should appreciate how much internal fights affect leadership. When a country is running elections for several years, prime minister is under several trials, reservists threaten not to show up for service, etc, this surely affect how government is functioning.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantA lot of preceding events were about not accepting other Yidden as brothers because you disagree with them. So, try the opposite. In my town, we had people from different shitos coming together for tehilim – those who usually say tefilos for Tzahal and those who do not.. I wonder whether any shuls that do not – took upon themselves to say such tefilos at least temporarily. Anyone?
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantThere is a video of an Israeli soldier going around, saying that we have left fighting right, right fighting left, forgetting that we have real enemies. Understandably, most of us are less connected to the situation as this soldier, but these ideas should propagate.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantthis is not a random attack, events are continuing, and it is time to all work together, especially when a leader has experience, whether you agree with that experience or not. There will be commissions after to learn the lessons.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAmil, you also need to look beyond the starting rate. People trapped in multi generational situation where work is not valued, May not be able to jump out quickly, it requires time and adjustment. But while economics of Jewish community may be similar to others, we have Torah sources that would help if that torah was actually taught properly.
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantChaim, answering briefly for Same reason.. as gemora mentions, there is a difference between a professional skill and a business. Businesses come and go and create a lot of opportunities for aveiros. If people are afraid of seeing inappropriately dressed people, what about being locked in an inappropriate business relationship? What about businesses where everyone else hires cheap illegals or underpays taxes, you’ll have to be competitive?
I am very much enjoying intersection of high tech and business, but I mostly value the business part for freedom from annoying bosses. I think any profession where you can run an honest small business is good.
I am not a navi to say which jobs will be good in the future, I work in data analysis and machine learning before ai became cool (again), and while there is hype, there are a lot of real products also
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantChaim, yes, I just saw that WSJ article – other professional jobs have increased starting pay lately (contrary to your feeling), but not accounting … I heard about people going into nursing homes a lot .. In theory, this _is_ a professional job that requires some education, formal or not. In practice, this is one of the scarier occupation where it seems that one earns good money by violating respect to sheva and kavod habriut… there aer so many of these homes that get bad grades, newspaper front pages and even prison times.
I also don’t think everyone should go to Ivies, to the opposite, one should choose education corresponding to expected job. Say, women who plan to be involved with kids, may not choose to get ivy education, unless they qualify for financial aid
Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantI posted earlier something here that I was not sure is appropriate and seems that mods kindly agreed with that (unless the post was eaten by software). The conundrum here is – on one hand, some info may be considered Lashon Hara. On the other hand, pretending that everyone is on board here is also Hillul Hashem.
I am not sure how to resolve this. One possible solution would be not to mention questionable personalities at all, but that would keep their personality cult continue growing under the radar.
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