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I think Gemora gives an algorithm how to deal with this davening v learning situation. It concludes that chasidim rishonim were able to keep up with their learning because they got a brocha of retaining their learning. So, anyone can try davening 9 hours a day, and then learn for an hour before going to work get the brocha and continue. If you don’t get this brocha, then you obviously not on the right path for whatever reason and you have to stop.
Qwerty, thanks for R Miller/Chabad story, so I am glad I am following in the steps of the giants – he has a very similar reasoning to what I am presenting here. There is always a mixed story – R Soloveichik’s father was a Rav in a chabad-majority town, and his melamed was a chabadnik. Rav S remembered fondly the studies and a picture of Alter Rebbe on the wall … At the same time, his mother noticed that he was learning chassidus to the detriment of the gemora, and directed the father to take take from his all-important position and teach the child himself.
sechel > Dr berger knows more about Christianity (which is an issur to learn in this weeks parsha)
I skip your words of disrespect to a Talmid Chacham that for some reason made thru our generous mods or maybe only some semichos are protected here?), but here you are misinformed. It is not assur to learn it in order to argue and this is exactly what R Dr Berge is doing. Ramban participated in a disputation and won it, do you think he did not prepare for that meeting?
Of course, Trumps team developed vaccines at unprecedented speed and started distribution, better than other countries. Certainly he is not the only one responsible, but it is no doubt that his business skills served the country and the world well.
You may keep strong opinion on other issues but this is undeniable. You can read a book by Pfizer ceo who is no friend of Trump if you are not sure.is it clear that they were doing it 3 times a day? I had in my head that this was for shaharis only, but now when I looked at it, this might indeed be for other tefilos also. Still, if they did mincha/maariv, I don’t think they meditated between them rather than listening to a Kitzur class!
For shaharis, this is not that remarkable – we are talking an hour before/after shmone esre (tefilah), not before pisukei zimra/shir shel yom or, for chabad, tehilim for rebbe’s age.
Also, given that they probably also worked, their daily calendar is not clear. Maybe they did not sleep much; started a shaah before sunrise, or it is really taking just an hour from the work day.
And – nobody said that shaah is an actual hour and not just a “significant amount of time”
Btw, some say Dr Berger, some say Berger, this should be Rabbi Dr Berger, whether you disagree with his opinions or never read his books.
I did not learn his positions on Chassidut, but I had an interesting interaction with him many years ago – he made an oral presentation that was pretty strict on how to relate to another religion. I asked him on one articular nekuda where his presentation explicitly disagreed with a sefer he co-authored. He replied that his position is what he said and that particular chapter was written by the co-author and they could not come to an agreement on the issue. I guess, a good argument for “oral learning”.
xCTL > The proposal for vouchers would give those taxpayers paying $7000 in local property taxes $25,000 a year in local tax dollars to spend outside the public education system. I object to this
> I do not trust the honesty and ability of private operators spending public education tax dollarsI agree with you that there should be oversight – as of any public money spent. I did not see – maybe I missed? – your response to my argument that this country spends a lot of public funds via private means. Are you insisting that only public servants produce Patriot missiles? that public servants decide what welfare recipients should eat – specific menu, that is. So, when you live in AOC district, you’ll get veggie diet, in JD Vances’, red meat. Surely, this does not affect anyone’s freedom – you can always move to the place that serves meat, same way people now need to move to get to better public schools.
As to specifics, a lot of your concerns can be either alleviated or, at least, tested out: testing 3Rs is a simple thing that many states already do. You don’t need to give $25K vouchers (the insane amount public school spends). Start with $10K, see how many takers will be there, then give more to the schools that give best results. As a result, your struggling public schools will have (temporarily, hopefully) more money per person to spend while they are adjusting to having competition. There are other things you can do – allow online classes where appropriate (high schoolers who can handle it; extra classes not available in small schools); allow easier competition between public schools. If people like you with experience in both public and private ed themselves will approach this problem with all creativity you have, instead of dogmatism, things will start improving – for those poor people especially.
Gadol > Right now, the Dems are actually aligned with a large segment of the Israeli electorate that believes Netanyahu is slow-walking
We need to keep in mind that Israeli government is actually fighting several wars right now, and need to balance many issues – and often are
not able to give full information to the public. So we can’t really have a firm opinion about what kind of agreements will work or not.So, at some point, we need to give some leeway and benefit of doubt to those who have serious security credentials. And in this, I include people like Bibi, Eisenkot, major generals, (even when they publicly disagree with each other), not minor party demagogues on all sides. They could be wrong, but their opinions are more informed than ours.
When I read these heated discussions, I want to point out that there is hopefully a difference between ways we discuss Tanach with missionaries v. inter-Jewish discussions. Missionaries are brining gotcha psukim and we point out errors. When we talked among ourselves, we are here people who learned some Torah, not just quoting Rebbes and anti-Rebbes. So, we can see beyond line-by-line debate and wonder whether certain shitot fit into Yiddishkeit as a whole.
For example, yes, it is reasonable to have a Teacher, and learn from him and even follow him and not others. At the same time, students of Beis Hillel were not running around having daily recitations of bas kol that halakha is like their teacher and them, and point it to beis Shammai, and Beis Shammai were not siting in a circle meditating and dancing “moschiach, maschiach” that halakha will be like b Shammai then. So, if your religion becomes so biased, it might be a problem. I welcome disagreements with this, of course, but I hope you hear my argument.
qwerty > What I and all the others in the thread are saying is that Chabad is no longer a valid expression of Judaism since it posits that the Rebbe is god.
I hear you. I frankly avoid people who look like they could have such opinions (and they literally “look” this way), and I did not interrogate others who I knew for years to be ehrliche Yidden to how they hold or deal with it. I do presume that in a Venn diagram, there are those who are both mashichists and who do great with non-observant Yidden as well as those who are non-maschichists and doing great work also. I am primarily concerned of the honor of the latter ones that you might be hurting.
> Your argument is similar to the popular Chabad refrain, “How can you criticize us? What happens if you’re in Mozambique and you need a Kosher meal?”
First, I am surely on record to discuss burning issues with Chabadnikim both seriously and needling, from bringing Vilna gaon books with me to wondering whether a person they are teaching should follow their minhagim or minhagim of their forefathers (such as sefardim or litvishe).
I do see though that you repeat mentally equating pikuach nefesh with providing kosher food to Yidden wandering in Mozambique. This is an echo of a chasid shoteh who hesitates saving a drowning lady.
> You’re a follower of Rabbi Miller and he endorsed Chabad.
FYI, I am not a follower, just a reader/listener and I did not recall that he endorsed chabad
A good question. Interesting, it seems that gemora and meforshim are not even suggesting that we follow that practice.
Could it also be that this was before having siddurim and maybe even before having a fixed prayer? So, then preparing would be more extensive to make sure your prayer goes well.
To expand on your question, Bava Kamma 30 says that hasidim used to be extra careful not to do something that hurts other people. Nobody drives like that anymore. When did this change?
Gadol, you are right. I am just pointing out a problem. You would not call an airline “kosher” if it were serve strictly kosher meat, except there is nobody checking kashrus of meat after shechita … Same, I am asking who is a posek that is answering their shailos on monetary issues. And pricing during hostilities sounds like a reasonable question. See, for example, Bava Basra 90. This also might be relevant to Ms Harris’ price controls.
Fandango,
pro-Biden campaigning in 2020 made an explicit reference to him being more understanding of Israel predicament than others in Obama administration.
Right now, it is official that Iran is against Trump
Hard to say what will be Ms Harris-Emhoff policy as she did not declare any positions or has any record, but she showed some antipathy to current Israeli policies and leadership.DovidBT > School vouchers enable us to reclaim some of our tax dollars
I don’t think there is a strict halachik or “Jewish” view on social issues, we are somewhat pragmatic – whatever works to achieve the right goals, as seen from a sequence of school systems during BM2 as described in Bava Basra. I don’t see how an experiment with vouchers would not be welcome. If results are unfavorable, then the society can always turn around. And US system that allows state experimentation is a perfect place for such pragmatic experiments. So, my only objection is for those who make federal government in charge of everything drastically reducing ability of states to experiment. This applies to education, medicine, welfare, not defense obviously.
yuda > the love American Jews have for America reminds me of the love German Jews had for Germany until the holocaust
We all are not naviim and don’t know what awaits us. Indeed, when Fritz Haber, a Nobel prize winner, was visiting US a couple of years before WW1, he was shocked to discover that some places did not allow Jews (although it did not apply to respected people like him, he was told) – and said that nothing like that could ever happen in Germany … Still, there are many countries where Jews lived for hundreds of years in a reasonable way (Spain, Germany, Poland, Persia …) and, to a various degree, interacted with the country.
r Avigdor Miller brings a moshal that might be applicable to Chabad activities: if a house is burning and you run into the house and save the child, you are getting burned also. It is not a punishment, it is a natural consequence of your – laudable – action.
Qwerty > ’m not clear what point you’re making. I assume you have a question or challenge.
I think you are “misunderestimating” what Chabad did for myriads of Yidden, neshomos saved, many turning out ehrliche Yidden and having great families. Yes, there are side effects and I am acknowledging them (and did them to the face of people that have some reason in them), but those groups that were so engaged with the Torah that they did not pay attention to their brothers being lost should be less judgmental and more helpful, if they can.
xctl > a mandatory basic education is necessary to provide functional and employable citizens.
I think we agree here, and maybe even more than basic
> private institutions cannot be trusted with public money.
This is what I think is “unexamined”. USSR had indeed such economy, but in this country, government routinely spends money on private businesses – from buying munitions to doing medical research to providing medicaid services and foodstamps. I agree that education is not a simple good as potatoes are, but medicine and defense are also complex industries. So, your premise needs more nuance.
gadol > It will be an interesting 2 months until November.
I know UK and other countries run their elections in weeks, but America has this tradition of vetting candidates over time through primaries, press coverage, debates. Are you comfortable having a candidate that took over the position in some back room deal – when one day Pres B was pressured to quit, and Pres O and others wanted to have a mini primary, and 30 minutes (?) later Pres B endorsed his VP who he did not care for during these 3 years, and somehow everyone got in line. This sounds like CCP election style. And nobody seems to plan to ask her – how did she sit behind a President who is now admitted to have diminished capacity for years, or what her platform is, or how did she succeed in politics via her boyfriend. I don’t think these are partisan points, this is basic stuff.
Gadol, not that simple. Machine learning works well (or at least with predictable performance) in a “closed world” (olam satum?). When events change, or even just their probabilistic distribution, then you would need contemporary poskim to re-train the system. This is what parsha Shoftim teaches – go get training data from shoftim of your generation. So, here (computer) science and Torah are in full agreement.
The problem would be that when most of psak will be given by AI, how do we ensure that new generation poskim will be ready to step in? Same as how do we keep pilots to be ready to step into a complicated landing when they are sleeping through the flight most of the time.
Gadol, right, I saw him stepping in after I posted. Still, halakha prefers pro-active actions rather than reactive, and a kosher business should check the halocha before the medina forces them to a “peshara”.
Be careful though (as with any online advice). If you don’t know what you are doing, better pay the company than risk your life on this ladder.
I think it would be up to גואל הדם to make sure nobody shoots him first. Put a peace flag on his machine gun.
XCTL, there is a good reason you did not see any anti-semitic activities, as they were happening in “undisclosed (to you) locations”
>> Abraham Foxman expressed concern on Wednesday that the situation for Jews in the US had deteriorated to the point that they had to meet in secret at events like the Democratic Party National Convention.
Kuvult > But anyway, my unpopular opinion is about bombing the tracks being impossible & wouldn’t have changed anything anyway.
I think you are right. Look at current war in Russia by Russia. Bombing tracks does not work even now with precision targeting. It does not take long to rebuild tracks. It only makes sense at bridges and tunnels, maybe. During WW2, you would probably need thousands of bombs to have one hit on the tracks – all of this beyond the front lines from the West. You could have destroyed another Dresden for the price of bombing one track for a week.
There are a lot of emotional myths like that. One example is a sustained negative campaign against Poland, amplifying anything negative that Poles did to Jews, totally disregarding reality of the time that Polish state was destroyed from two sides by Nazis and Commies and their government did not control anything.
SACT5 > My mom interviewed her grandfather for a family history project. He told her “our surname was changed at Ellis Island.”
There are a lot of recorded interviews at Ellis Island. You can find them online and listen to what people actually said.
Froggie > You can tell what a person is from what he /she writes, talks about….
This works with kids and maybe teens, which might be your peer group. Adults learn what is appropriate to say and say that even when doing something inappropriate, they can present aveiros as mitzvos. My Rav’s advice: listen to what children say and make conclusions about adults in the family.
xCTL > I oppose school vouchers, if anyone wants to send their children to private schools then the taxpayer should not pay.
Sometimes, I disagree with someone but can understand their position. In this case, I can’t. Maybe coming from a Teachers Union leader.
Your premise seems to be that it is government job to _directly_ provide education to ALL the children. Not thru shaliach, and not just to poor children. I do not see where this premise comes from, maybe just an un-examined assumption that somehow creeped into your mind,
And without that premise, why not let other institutions provide the same goods (vouchers, under proper controls and testing of results) or make it into program for only those can’t afford it and then let everyone else use a market solution.
I mentioned before Baba Basra story of several attempts of establishing a working educational system, changed when the previous version did not work good enough. Same here, why not any solution that might work? We have lots of ways to experiment and measure results in this country.
>> 2. “Husbands should work, wives should stay at home”.
Gadol > Unless, as is frequently the case, the wife is smarter than the husband and can earn 2x or 3x as much so he can stay home, take care of the kids and learn.If she is smarter, why would she not let her husband work, both enjoying her time with kids and letting the husband take credit for supporting the family
Note that generally divorce rates are higher in families where “smart” women out-earn their husbands. See how “smart” Ms. Harris used men for career advancement and how long it took her to find her bashert.
I am not saying like the other guy that staying home is a mitzva, but it definitely a reshus.
qwerty > . Now Kiruv is a wonderful concept and I fully endorse it, but there’s a downside. Those involved in Kiruv are eternally optimistic. You’re a Mechallel Yom Kippur. No problem. Give him an Aliyah.
I very much understand your concerns about excesses. But here your understanding of “kiruv” is imperfect. (I used quotes because Chabad are usually not using this term, only those who – B’H – decided to copy their approach and who define their own position as between Hashem and those on outside. So, this is not about Aliyot and kibudim in general, it is about people asking basic questions about their relationship to Hashem, trying to figure out how to go home to their parents and eat from paper plates without causing a ruckus.
common > reliable, honest and frum car repair shop
would 2 out of 3 suffiuce?
xctl > I am in Chicago through tonight’s session, but must be in CT tomorrow on legal business.
Oh, so this headline was about you?
A CT DEMOCRAT LEAVES CONVENTION ONE DAY AFTER ATTACK ON A JEWISH ORGANIZATION. CLAIMS LEGAL BUSINESS AS EXCUSE.You don’t need a posek involved. Simply train AI using his teshuvos and test on other ones so you know the quality.
What IF President Biden will announce in his speech tonight: “I am Joe Biden and I am running for the second term”!
Will he be supported? dragged from the stage and sedated? Will there be a “mini primary”? Will ExCtLawyer get up and announce that he supports Mr. Biden? Biden-CTL ticket?
There is a letter from Rambam to a Yemenite ger who asked whether he can recite that Avraham is his father, as he is not. Rambam says – you yourself are at Avraham’s level, so “yes you can” (way before O-, so Rambam has the copyright). Similar sentiment applies to BTs.
MrShlomo > If they say yes, then you have your answer…
This may not be a final answer. By some, probably very lenient opinions. this religion is not necessarily A”Z for a non-Jew. My personal addition to that is that depends very much on a brand, there is huge difference between Catholics/Protest/Orthodox/Copts, and more divisions in between. Some are more AZ-looking, like Greek/Russian orthodox, some American Protestants may not even be “religious” at all.
So, you would need to have a way longer conversation with that beggar.
> “but the sheer hypocrisy of chanting “Lock her up! Lock her up!” then doing nearly the exact same thing.“
There is a subtle difference here. Multiple media outlets bombard us daily with accusations of T. Most of them do not say
similar things about Democratic players until they fall of the cliff in a debate. After that, they attacked the fallen lion like lowly hyenas.So, T has to make those accusations himself in order for them to be heard. I blame Republican leaders for not creating enough media presence …
Governor Romney tried to be nice and was accused of all kind of crimes – and that is why he became “Senator Romney”, not “President Romney”. Majority of Republicans accepted that they need a Yiftach-type fighter, even with imperfect middos.
Menachem > Do Lubavitchers really venerate the Rebbe more than the Jews in the desert venerated Moshe Rabbeinu, … We’ll have to talk to an unbiased Jewish historian about that.
Just open the Chumash. Did you see chassidim complaining about the Rebbe the way Jews complained about Moshe? Caze clozed.
Gadol, thanx 4 scaring me, I was just on the way to NYC … Should I return my ticket? I still think I’ll breath better than those 44,000 musketeers. The rest 76,956,000 are the innocent victims of propaganda, tinokos sheb nishba.
Pres Biden indeed is positive towards Israel, especially comparing with people around him. It seems that he is first naturally inclined to support Israel and after that course-corrects to take his political interests into account. This was actually a selling point before 2020 elections targeting Israel-minded voters – that Obama people viewed Israel as occupier first, while Biden knew what Yom Kippur war was and understood Israel’s risks. I think this argument is largely true.
“Ironically” (or hypocritically?), there is a new argument now (opposite of the old one) – that Biden could not influence the crazy anti-Israeli youth, but Kamala can, as a Black/Indian/Batcrazy leader that those other crazies will relate to, so she is now best lord/lady protector of the Jews … Just shows how it is easy to be fooled, especially if you want to.
A religious owner?! B’H!
Who is the current posek in Israel who gets shailohs about how one can price a service when competition is weak and demand is high? Especially during the war? What did the posek answer? Is the answer posted on El Al website or reported in quarterly earnings reports?
skripka, politicians are not called listim in the Gemora, I tihnk. but “crying widows” I think as they are always crying for more money (in the story of R Yochanan convincing his nephews to donate the money he saw in a dream they are going to lose the money, and the rest was taken by the government.
Gadol, all democrats are in Chicago this week, I heard, so can I enjoy the rest of the USA?
you don’t have to stare at youtube during the ad. Mute it and read a posuk, or watch another video on the second screen, or do chesed, call your zeidi.
coffee, thanks
coffee, you are mixing me up with R Tarfon who would do that, I will simply refrain in order not to offend one of the great tzadikkim.
The story goes that when young R Kamenetsky lit a cigarette in doctor’s office, the latter informed him that recent medical thought is that it is dangerous for lungs. Rav suggested the shomer pesaim defense. Then the doctor mentioned that it also dangerous for memory. Rav replied: I can not afford forgetting the Torah I learned, extinguished the cigarette and never smoke again.
RebE, this is contradictory – he might not be changing, but his biggest drawback seems to be that he is unpredictable and some people are sincerely scared of that, and others are exploiting what he can possibly do. But if you go solely on his history, and we discussed here at length, his policy decisions were pretty good for Jews/for economy/for international politics. You may have it drilled into your head all possible scares, but if you go and review the record, there are not many problems there. So, if he does not change, you should be able to vote for him.
Note that perception from the media is extremely misleading by now. For example, T was giving a press conference yesterday. A friend who watched said that it was pretty organized and included policy positions read from a paper. There are no references in the major papers to the conference in general, and one little note I saw was about some moment that might paint him in a bad way. So, unless you are reading T’s truthsocial, you are not well informed.
We can have a CR zabla beis din – take one leftwing and one rightwing poster and let them choose the third and they can vote on whether a post qualifies as LH.
lostspark> the war in Gaza, the war in Ukraine, the civil strife in Britain things will grind on to be incrementally worse with no clear exit strategy or cathartic events.
people were saying the same in 2016 – ISIS will continue their empire, Suleimani will continue his tricks …. Then, Trump changed rules of engagement allowing US commanders to call strikes directly instead of calling White House lawyers and ISIS was soon gone. Nobody even mentions them now.