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RebE > when I will be sixty and she will be thirty being now twice as old
in our days, AI algorithm in the shidduch system simply puts an appointment in the calendar for Sep 13, 2043 (because Sep 12 2043 is shabbat)
DaMoshe,
when you have an opinion that mods think is not kosher (they went to the same schools everyone else did!) – you need to find an amorah to support it. Mods rarely censor amorahs.Doctors told Netziv to take a vacation on beautiful serene Litvishe lakes (that look similar to Lakewood lakes, but with more trees). He could not take idleness though and ran away back to Volozhin after several days.
Not bad for chatGPT, is this a new release?
Usual explanation for Naase Adam in Bereshis is that Hashem is consulting melachim. Another one – that is consulting Adam and Hashem & Adam TOGETHER are participating in creating Adam (you might say Adam 1.0 creates Adam 1.1, then Adam 2.0…). This perfectly answers the question.
I would add – as our next iteration will be surely better than the current one, why not let a better man do the mitzva? One would say – why not other way around and let a better man learn? This has 2 easy answers:
1) learning will ensure next version is better
2) from the tzad of bein adam l’makom, we should let kallah have a better versionSeriously, Mod, I am not in a position to make a significant change in one person’s financial state, but I freely share any knowledge or job leads with anyone who needs it. It is generally person’s middos and attitudes that hold people behind, and I wish more Rabbis guided people like hat. I have a friend who complained about his low paying profession and asked me about direction he can take in computer programming. This was a pro-active conversation before he got married, I had hopes for him. He still complains that he has hard time paying tuition for the high school yeshiva. ..
Sact5, try to find a religious authority competent in these issues. get books by r Twersky, he writes about abuse and related topics.
One thing he says that if one spouse abuses children, and the other doesn’t protect them, then children might later have a grudge against the healthy person excusing the sick oneHe is the gadol, he knows all hidden things including yoga pants.
Surprised you askedThanks. I got scared I misunderstood the maggid. The moshal you might use is the one about someone who has answers and not questions…
And more to whether r Moshe is universally accepted:
I don’t think his psak counts in Israel;
Not that everyone respects every opinion r Moshe had.. he had respectful relationship with r Soloveitchik and I think, lubavitch Rebbe also, didn’t stop anyone from having different opinion .People feel free to disrespect r Moshe’s SIL, despite r Moshe doing the shidduch
I am not trying to question r Moshe’s stature, just trying to have a realistic picture of what statute is there in modern world
Yankel, I agree, but if a specific community doesn’t follow a posek respected by others, we can’t force them without Sanhedrin or even a city beis din… in my area, beis din consists of excellent talmidei chachamim, but they are slightly personally moderni, not in halochos, but in outlook. As far as I know, black hat community, of which rabonim are a part of, do not use this beis din …
Avira> Chasidus, much like a mussar seder, is for 30 minutes to an hour
Maybe we shouldn’t mix these together? True they historically came in response to a perceived disconnect between traditional elite learning and every person’s need to deal modernity, the actual effect is through different pathways. The first approach has the dangers we are discussing here of being swept up by esoteric concepts skipping the basics, while mussar is grounding a person with work on his middos. The only danger here is like R Naftoli Amsterdam who was dressing like a shlepper disregarding his wife’s wishes
Dennis Prager suggests that we can partner on practice with peo6who believe that M already came before. When M comes. We’ll figure it out, but we can work for common goals before that.
Maybe the same principle can apply here?Interestingly, Torah is advocating a high stake experiment to determine a navi – be right or die. At the same time, as mentioned here, same moschihists had one opinion before Rebbe was niftar and another after. Al pi reb Karl popper, a theory is a statement that can be, in thought experiment, be proven wrong. A position that can be modified to be true for any possible event is not a theory. So, this approach seems to contradict the posuk
Easy to prove that this levush is unbecoming for an Yiddishe meidele; gematria of yoga is the same as goya!
> moshol of the Dubno Maggid about the fool who used to fire the arrow first and then draw the bullseye around
I read this moshal as an explanation of his great speaking abilities@ was I wrong?! Important to know as I am borrowed this trick!
As r Zusya compared his piece of bread with a stone to Pharaoh’s, I feel how insignificant I am. If I were to establish a Yom tov for every time I was lectured by a Chabadnik who didn’t care for my opinion, I’ll be drunk the whole year!
CS, Calling books that are not from your Rebbe “outside” is unfortunate, despite all your best intentions. Maybe you need to davka learn them? The precedent is Beis Hillel that were accepted _because_ they would quote B Shammai before their own. And it goes without saying that they knew each other’s opinions as they were able to marry each other, warning of potential mamzerim that are by other opinions.
Yankel, you mean YD 242:2? And then 244 says that a hoshuve rav is like your teacher. It seems to carve exceptions when not in front of him. Also, this chosid might not have felt that he is bound by R Moshe’s psakim, but rather by his chasidus, so then the logic of YD 244 does not apply.
See also Kesubos 85b for when Tuvia might or not include Rav Tuvia.
Again, I am with you in terms of being respectful to Rabonim one disagrees. I do not like especially when this happens b’davka, ie using multiple titles for rabbis from your side and mr or dr for those one disagrees with. But I don’t think occasionally omitting titles of well known Rabbis or those who have pen names is a bog deal. For example,we say Chofetz Chaim, not Rabbi Yisroel Kagan.
Follow > If you do the math, you so find that the difference after tuition breaks,
> strictly a math equation, not a conversation on whether it is better to live off of these benefitsFirst, how can you have one without another? How can you compare feelings of someone who supports his family and then learns at the time/koach he has with someone who knows that other people work had to pay for his amenities and what he learns contradicts how he lives?
2nd, from pragmatic prospective, you might discover actual price of things and make rational decisions. For example, you can choose a yeshiva based on the values they are teaching and not the breaks they give. You may figure out that the price of camp makes no sense, and send your kids to volunteer instead. You may find out that overpriced colleges make no sense when not get fin aid and send kids to places where training v cost makes sense. So, some difficult decisions but, hopefully, good lessons for kids.
Are you as stingy with money toward people who aren’t in learning but can’t make ends meet? Your last few posts got me wondering.
Follow, it is true that you lose various discounts on taxes and tuition at higher incomes, but you still get ahead. After Trump, we lost tax credits for children and this is most annoying when filling out taxes – as if we don’t deserve a break for the kids (at least a mental one). With schools, you don’t file pleading forms disclosing your taxes and vacations, but negotiate a discount directly. If you are used to business negotiations, you can survive that too.
Follow, maybe you misunderstood the trend: there are more people going to college now, so obviously average level and benefit is lower. And yes a good plumber is better off than a history major. Still, a computer engineer is better off than a plumber… and many people, like me, do not have a talent for plumbing.
Avira > given more schar in shomayim for supporting their family than for excelling un Torah
I think I found one view on this question: someone remarked to r Salanter that if a certain student of his spent all his time on Gemora instead of mussar, he would be a world 🌎 famous talmid chacham.. Rav answered that if you have two challos, you use the one that is more beautiful, not the one that is larger.
Obviously, not everyone agrees, so this disagreement is bigger than a view on foodstamps, so worth arguingI have to admit that last parsha supports Aviras view, it says that Hashem will give us blessings so that we could sit and learn, while goyim are working for us. Well said.
Yankel, we do say Hillel and Shammai, shem is greater than Rav… I think some people feel same way towards rav Moshe?also some people here omit rav in front of names they disagree with, please police them …
I also witnessed a Rav where he had to introduce himself and a reform clergy person. So, he said: HI, I am Yankel and she is Nancy…
PS what is sh’a say about capitalizing names ofDaMoshe, I don’t disagree but you are discussing what is called first world problems… I am saying that if someone is inspired to learn torah as much as possible, he should live on bread and water in a simple apartment, not even earning enough miles.
A question what is more important: learn or have an ehrliche life is ridiculous. How often do you ask whether eating kosher or davening is more important?
Or maybe tell your wife that you are busy this month, so which out of 3 obligations she could drop?
Avira, so a ” kollel” person who works at night is exactly the working model I am for. Just not take someone’s money that they didn’t offer you explicitly to support your learning
Ctl, I didn’t suggest taking food stamps, did I!?
Get some professional knowledge whether through college or self learning or friends, work 4 hours a week for $100. That is 21 k per year to live as a poor ehrlihe talmid chachamCtl, my suggestion was opposite: work 3 4 hours a WEEK, not a day, enough to support oneself and family at 19th century level, no government assistance has vesholom. If there is someone learning like that, I’ll consider contributing to him, bli neder and/or convince ctl to do the same.
n0 > whole class that doesn’t wash,
Most Americans wash, FYI 🙂 But there are also opposite cases – people who were not enthusiastic in Jewish environment, then become more self-aware and assertive when in different environment
n0 > current economic set up does not accommodate working hard for your money.
A good point. We have a mitzva to be honest, etc. So, whatever the economic conditions are, we are to behave. You would not eat basar lavan because it s cheaper? so, you should not do bad work because it is more profitable.
I once heard a chasiddishe professional talking to college students. They opened up with “how do you keep kosher at work/keep shabbos/wear a hat/a beard” … He started with “the first thing you should know – you owe 8 hours of honest work daily to your employer”
Avira > they’re not interested in remaining in learning even though they might have experienced some success in yeshiva.
When we discuss these issues, we sometimes look at the narrow swath of time – learning v. college. A better way is took at the “whole person”. I think it is Ner Isroel shitah that a college-educated person has a better environment for a life-long learning.
Marxist > For the pre-health jobs, PT/OT/speech don’t make the 200K like doctors, dentists etc.
but it achieves a respectable job that provides parnosa without getting involved in questionable business practices and daily davening devoted to tomorrow’s earnings.
> For computer science jobs, it depends but having a masters or Phd will make you so much more competitive in that field. Same thing with data analytics.
true. I have that, and it does open extra opportunities. But in software development and data analytics, one can get steady jobs even with less.
read R Twersky, he dealt with drug & alcohol problems in the “frum” communities. He highly recommends AA.
> Gaon’s rhetoric caused the blood of Chassidim to flow like water.
I don’t know whether this was a forgery or not, but blood (on both sides) might be referring to attempts to appeal to Russian authorities who used such reports to clump down on both sides. Alter Rebbe was not whistling back, except lamenting of a “torture” of being released into a misnagdish home after being released from the prison.
Yankelberl, thanks for the “Rav” suggestion. It would surely apply to first/last names like “Rav Avigdor Miller”, but not to pen names like “Chofetz Chaim”.
Chaim Volozhiner seems like an intermediate case, Volozhiner being sort of a nick name. I consulted reb Google, and it seems that appellation is more used than not, so your correction seem to be more correct than not. I also notice that he was also known as _Reb_ Chaim V… Maybe we can follow psak of R Gershon Kamenetsky who puts R for everyone and suggests to read it as Reb/Rav/Rebbe/Gaon Hatzaddik according to reader’s preferences.
CS, I understand Alter Rebbe’s argument for neshoma v. guf and it is very attractive, and it was based on recent history of assimilation in Western Europe. Still, it is very unattractive in a long run – agreeing and supporting a despotic regime (it appears that Chabad Chassidim provided direct intelligence support to Czar’s army, not just a general endorsement). I am not aware of any Western European Rabbonim taking their community and leading them away from spiritual mitzraim of Western Europe into safety of Russian empire. Notice that even in later years, when many European rabbonim were against moving to Goldene Medina or EY, there was no widespread movement saving Jews from evil America into safe Russia. (not counting yeshiva students going temporarily to learn in Mir or Slabodka, like R Avigdor Miller, and then returning back unless stopped by a world war).
cs > . For a chossid/ Jew to go and willingly open a cheder / Mikvah
This is laudable of course and Chabad had great people there, but this is in part a “true Scotsman” fallacy – there were also people who joined the commies, etc, but those we call not “true chassidim”.
When Fridrike Rebbe was arrrested in the 20s, the arresting commissar wanted to carry rebbe’s suitcase as his father did for his father, but was refused.
Another story I heard from a Polish Jew whose house was searched by Soviet KGB during WW2, suddenly one of them started quietly signing Kol Nidrei nigun. When they talked, he warned them what not to do, and explained that he was a young yeshiva bucher, joined commies, soon lost his faith in it, but there was no way out
> Daycare providers are actually trained in this, and they play with the kids for a good part of the day.
Exactly. Parents are not trained. Give your kids to daycare/kindergarten/school/yeshiva/seminary/shadchan professionals and they’ll perform the mitzva of shinantem levanecha on your behalf with all chumros.
I would think that this amazing generation – dor hakollel – would be uniquely qualified to lead their own children to spiritual heights.
Avira > they were silenced and most were taken to Siberia,
Chofetz Chaimn escaped (sending his S-I-L on shabbos to pick up visas in Vilno) but later said that it was wrong to leave, as Russian Jews were left without leaders.
CS, what happened (and continue happening) in and around Russia is following historically from that confrontation between Napoleon and Russian Czar. From purely historical view, one might say that the role of some small Jewish group in White Russia did not matter. From spiritual POV, this could look different. As far as I know, other chassidim and Chaim Volozhiner supported Napoleon and maybe Polish hopes for independence, while Alter Rebbe supported the Czar. There are a lot of things to say for his position – it was likely that Napoleon will fail (and possible Chaim Volozhiner understood that also), so keeping good relations was important. Furthermore, Lubavich/Lyadi was located further into Russian empire than others. Still, Alter Rebbe was a minority who thought that keeping modernity away is more important than keeping slavery away.
Avira > Rav belsky told me that a frum person studying psychology is allowed to do so and “not be gores” garbage that is part of the course – now i don’t know if this psak applies only to someone who sat and learned for years in yeshiva,
This seems somewhat different from Rabbonim who davka insist that good learners stay learners.
R Twersky asked Steipler about medical school and Steipler suggested, if I recall correctly, learning a high-quality hevrusa, learning mussar (or chassidus?), and going to a mikva regularly.
But psychology may be on the riskier side, especially as it is a generic major taken by people with no specific plans, so curriculum is broad and shallow. This might make sense if going to a top college and planning for a PhD. Otherwise, going for one of the health sciences may be more practical and results in classes in audiology instead of “psychology of upper volta minorities”
n0 > And most of the world’s elite that went through college, have zero kosher dollars.
They went to college to become more successful criminals.This is a serious question as the father’s mitzva of giving a profession is exactly not to make kidd into listim. I feel opposite – that people who lack access to easy/clean professions and deal in business transactions, hustling, selling iphones online .. an educated person may indeed have capability to cheat, but a poor person might feel more need & pressure.
Specifically to Jews who have moral background, my personal observation is that a professional Yid is more reliable than an average professional (maybe because he is aware he is being watched), while an Yid hustling something is not always makes same impression,
Marxist > it is not enough to have only gone to undergraduate school.
N0 > There is not enough college level jobs for even a quarter of society.I hope we all understand that there are different ways for different people. We are just trying to define a framework …
For grad school, a Jewish dilemma is how far you want to go in your professional pursuits… There is an option of health sciences rather than full blown med school – nursing/PT/OT/speech – especially for girls. Also, computer science/software/data analysis do not require law/med school dedication/expenses
N0 > You create your own influences.
I agree with Avira here. The prisoner can not take himself out of the prison, or maybe even understand what he is up to, especially a young person coming from a sheltered environment. Previous century is a testament to that. For example, an American minhag of sending 18 y.o. to another side of the country, or even world, to learn wisdom from a random professor or a coed.
Mod, thanks for the clarification. I should have mentioned the psak. Thanks for watching.
Mod > disclaimer: we don’t recommend writing your own heterim
sure. A specific psak I got from a hashuve rov I follow for decades already (and mentioned here before) that a psak on taking classes like “comparative religion” depends on the person’s emotional state and academic direction – some osur, some mutar and even recommended. And he paskened accordingly to the students he knew. I did not bother bringing each of our kids to the Rov, as he does not know them well, and I would be imposing on him a free psychological evaluation of each of them. So, I relied on the guidelines he gave. So far, everyone found these classes stimulating intellectually and no side effects observed. Again, done under direct Dr’s supervision.
these were your words and it was on this that the disclaimer was made. ‘Truly, the class above could have been avoided, but I thought this kid can benefit (with close supervision). ‘
Avira > exposing ourselves to negative influences, including hearing apikorsus
Here is an interesting question. We see here and offline, that there are masses of Jews exposed to a lot of nonsense – whether it is covid, ukraine, or any other political topic. You can see that they somehow were readt pure propaganda. This is not A’Z but still pretty bad. How do these people get affected without going to college or watching TV? you tell me,
I agree with Avira about intentional exposure:
there is a difference between learning for parnosa and having accidental exposure that needs to be minimized and balanced; and intentionally getting into humanities and sitting with those people. The latter probably falls under R Soloveichik’s psak not to deal with Christians in theology, only in practical matters. So, same with Liberal religion.