Aseh maat ve emor harbeh

A couple questions:

1) Does the Torah give a Beis Din have the authority to punish people for private behavior, meaning not b’farhesia?

2) Does the Torah require a beis din to investigate and pass judgment *all* suspected violations of the Torah within its authority (rather than having discretion to enforce where it seems likely to have good results)?

If the answer to either of these questions is “no”, then it would be incorrect to state that the Torah requires a beis din to force people to be frum.

Smerel wrote :”Given the choice between the capital riots happening again or the BLM riots happening again I’ll take the capital riots any day.”

I think you are actually doing the same thing that you (correctly) accuse the liberals of doing, by having a different standard depending on one’s political beliefs. Why do I say that? Because I think if BLM stormed the capitol in January 2017 to prevent Trump’s inauguration, you would agree that it was worse than other riots.

n0mesorah:
“See the committee for misuse of capitol letters.”

“Capitol” letters – hahahahaha!
See the committee for “pun”-ishable offenses.

It sound like maybe the religious beliefs caviat is also about protecting women having abortions before 40 days, where there is more room for leniency in halacha, especially since this was in the context of a law banning abortion from the moment of conception.

I don’t remember but it was discussed in a tshuva from one of the gedolei poskim. Maybe the yaavetz, but I’m not sure. I also don’t remember what the final psak was, but it was not as poshut as it might seem.

I believe the tzitz eliezer was matir abortions for babies with Tay Sachs if I remember correctly, though this was controversial.

“our bubehs and zaydahs* would be infinitely more shocked at the actual discussion that frum jews are having about baby killing. They’d recoil in horror at the shattering of skulls, dismemberment and brutal torture that abortion often entails. And they would scream “murderer!” Without getting into any shailos if it’s *really* murder or not.”

Possibly, but the poskim in the times of our bubbes and zeidesand even before found it necessary to discuss this question in their shailos and tshuvos, because there are situations where there is a nafka mina. A famous one was a case where a woman knew that she was going to give birth to a mamzer and wanted to do tshuva for what she had done.

Ujm, I would be curious to know what the opinion of gedolei Yisroel would be on this. My guess is that there would be serious practical issues with enforcing capital punishment for a crime that a large portion of society doesn’t consider to be a crime at all. The result might be selective and unfair enforcement. Where it was enforced, political opponents of the law would turn executed offenders into martyr figures. It would be better to work on changing public opinion, from a practical standpoint.

Philosopher, the gelolei haposkim put a lot of thought and argument into determining whether abortion is murder so I think the question is legitimate. But I think you are correct that it should be obvious to anyone straight-thinking person that it is terrible and immoral except in rare, extreme cases. I would also add that in a case where there is hefkerus and lack of respect regarding a particular mitzvah, it makes sense to be as machmir as possible, and this would be one of those cases.

Obviously no court is enforcing the death penalty on 7 mitzvos bnei Noach today, but the fact that certain aveiros would be chayav misa should be a warning to us that they are more serious than we might have otherwise thought.

If there were courts enforcing the death penalty on 7 mitzvos BN, it would be in the context of a society that has as a whole accepted those mitzvos and understands their severity, so the application of misa would be something that happens rarely and after a lot of deliberation, hence the Robespierre analogy does not fit. But the fact that the death penalty does not exist today in practice for 7 mitzvos bnei Noach (except for murder in some jurisdictions) should not lead us to think that prohibitions are less severe.

“Which means if it is a self-abortion, such as the over the counter or prescription medication she takes, the mother would be chayiv misa.”

Correct.

“Why would it be more strict by a goy?”

In Halacha, I believe it is because the prohibition for a Jew and the prohibition for a Ben Noach are derived from different psukim, but I don’t remember the details. I would suggest listening to some of the shiurim that discuss this topic. In hashkafa, I don’t know the answer and would be interested in learning, but I would be wary of having that discussion on this forum because it not such a politically correct topic and there are a lot of nuances, so it’s likely that some readers will be offended and take it the wrong way.

Marx deserves our admiration. He was a funny guy 🥸

Also, although the Torah codes might be phony, I would not assume they are phony based on a conversation you had with a friend unless he is an accomlished mathematician who spent a lot of time researching the subject. But I agree they should not be used as a basis for emunah, since their truth is at least uncertain.

It’s true that every community has its unique problems. New York deserves to be bashed because its unique problem is a widespread lack of middos, which really should overshadow any other problems. I know from experience that it’s an everyday occurance in NY to see people wearing yarmulkes or tichels as they make a beautiful kiddush Hashem by yelling at a waiter because the food wasn’t exactly right or honking at someone for waiting a half-second too long to go at a green light. I’m not saying that everyone there does that, but I have seen that it is commonly accepted behavior. Now, apparently, bashing an out-of-town community as it is going through a difficult week is also acceptable behavior for some New Yorkers. I’d much prefer the crime and the carpools, and even riots, rather than to raise children in a place where that kind of behavior is accepted.

Also, I once asked a rav a sheila about whether breaking the speed limit is a violation of dina d’malchusa. The answer I received was that violating traffic laws that are commonly enforced is a violation of dina d’malchusa. So driving 2 mph over the speed limit would not be a dina d’malchusa problem, but driving 12 mph over the speed limit probably would be.

So those of you who care about following halacha but like to drive over the speed limit would be advised to consult your Rav before doing so.

“It is the height of arrogance and stupidity.”

Wow, civility has certainly taken a nosedive in the CR lately. Maybe people should consider taking a couple deep breathes before posting things.