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HaLeiVi,
What do you tell a child who wants to down a quart of ice cream?
“The ice cream was really good, wasn’t it? I’d love to have more too, but too much ice cream would make us feel sick. So let’s put it away.”
“We can have more ice cream tomorrow.”
“Oh, that ice cream is for a different time, let’s put it back.”
(In a growly cave man voice) “Mmmm ice cream good! Will gobble up whole thing! Glumyumyumyumyumyum (pretend to eat the whole thing, box included). Yuck! Box! Feh feh! Oooooh owww tummy ache. Better put this away quick so you don’t get a tummy ache too.”
Will those types of responses prevent a tantrum? For a tired or hungry kid, probably not. But they get the message across without emotional hurt.
lightbrite,
Does someone who is frum and knows that a double sink and kasherable one makes life easier have a responsibility of making a kosher-friendly space?
Or can one renovate based on interior design trends, hoping to get more bang for the buck regardless of how practical it is for a person who is frum to live.
How likely is it that the subsequent purchasers would be Jewish? If the house you are flipping is in a Jewish neighborhood, I would think that a kosher-friendly kitchen would be a pretty big selling point.
lesschumras,
This is just ankther example of people living inside a bubble. Did the OP ever consider that for seventy+ years, the vast majority of Jews in just the NYC area lived in apartments and dealt with only one sink? It is not a new issue?
This is just another example of people reacting without having all of the facts. Lightbrite has expressed numerous times that she is a BT. How exactly is that living inside a bubble?
lightbrite,
If they tell you that when they grow up they want to do a non-frum job?
What’s a non-frum job?
Or if your boy says that he wants to do a girl job (dunno what but there must be something)?
Or if your daughter wants to do a boy job (like be a rabbi)?
Do you say that you cannot do that because you are frum or it goes against Torah?
I would strongly recommend against saying that, because a young child doesn’t yet fully understand the concept of “against Torah”, or even most of the concepts the Torah is addressing. S/He can, however, feel rejected and hurt. I think it’s better to try and connect with the child’s feelings underpinning the statement, and then to gently redirect if needed.
To take another example, it’s very normal for a toddler to say something like, “when I grow up, I’m going to marry mommy!” Would a sharp, unintelligible (to him) response be appropriate, making him feel like his desire for connection with his mother is a bad thing, and she hates him? Or would a hug be best, followed with something like, “G-d willing, you will grow up to be an erliche young man, and Hashem will help you marry and have a family of your own, and your mommy will always be your mommy, and she loves you so much and will always love you.”
All animals are beasts!
zahavasdad,
Bovine
It works! I think bovine historically is an adjective (of or relating to animals in the bovinae subfamily), but just like the adjectives feline, canine, male, female, etc., bovine has evolved in usage to be a noun as well.
RebYidd23, we have changed the English language just for you.
zahavasdad,
While they might about beliefs in general they usually wont single you out. They might say “Judaism is stupid” but they usually wont say “Your Beliefs in judaism is stupid”
The distinction between general comments and singling out a student gets pretty blurry when the comment is made seemingly at random (unrelated to the course material), with an obvious member of the faith or ethnic group sitting in the front row. I’d imagine that mik5 felt quite singled out.
Shopping613,
In any case, besides making fun of different usernames and subtitles (which of the 6 comments-3 were Joseph lol) she explained why she did this.
Why did she feel it was necessary to make fun of the usernames? Did she explain?
I was shocked actually since one was DaasYochid, and I do respect him/her, and was upset to see a mockery of one of his comments.
Why did you not have time to write which thread it was, but had time to divulge this detail? It could probably be easily found by participants even with just a few descriptive words, so there’s no need to dig up the thread title, or a link, or anything.
1) Do people really ask halachic shelios here and expect to get a proper halachic ruling? Do they really care about halacha then?
I would agree with your instructor that it’s dangerous for someone to ask a shaila here if he/she actually intends to act on information in the responses without the guidance of a rav. I think, however, that the vast majority of questioners are not looking for a psak per se, but rather a discussion. The purpose for such a discussion depends on the asker. Perhaps s/he heard something from a friend that surprised him/her, and is curious about how widespread that position is. Perhaps an OP is afraid of how a certain shaila may come across to his/her rav, so they see what happens in the CR first. Perhaps someone wants intellectual or spiritual stimulation that comes from discussion or debate. Perhaps someone is a troll who wants to paint Orthodox Judaism in a bad light, or fight with people on the perceived “other side”. Or any sort of reason.
Regardless of the reason for any discussion, I do think it’s important for every poster to keep in mind that the CR is not necessarily a representative sample of the frum world, and it’s impossible to know who is on the other keyboards, and what their motivations or stories are. This doesn’t mean the CR is a bad thing, but that it should be approached with a healthy perspective.
2) Do you feel upset that the CR is made a mockery of IRL from time to time? (In Real Life)
Not the first time the CR has been mocked, and not the last. The most ironic I’ve seen is when some bloggers have pointed to obvious troll posts on the CR as “evidence” of how backwards/ridiculous/wrong the “other side” is. As much as the active participants in the CR should maintain a healthy perspective of what it is, so should its critics and mockers 🙂
RebYidd23,
It’s outdated and could be seen as specifically excluding people who are not ladies or gentlemen.
Not outdated, just changed meaning and usage. Languages evolve along with cultures. Lady is a traditional English title, but in 21st Century America, it’s a nicety.
It’s racist to call a woman a girl or a man a boy!
Context is important, man! Context!
How is it racist to call a girl a woman or a boy a man? Has this ever been used in a racist context?
CTLawyer provided an example above.
But were boys ever called men or girls called women?
All the time, usually prepended with “young.”
Joseph,
Is referring to women (or men) a negative thing?
No, the negativity comes by exclusion, e.g., that woman is not a lady…
Lilmod, I find it exceedingly rare, especially in frum society, for adult males to be called boys.
I guess frum society doesn’t have the “good ole boys” network that many small southern towns do.
Putting aside the idea that a bark mitzvah is disrespectful to Jewish tradition, it also is yet another example of the penchant in American culture to anthropomorphize dogs. This is a misplacement of natural human maternal and paternal instincts, and it is not even good for dogs.
Dogs are not human beings, and they don’t care one bit about temporal milestones. What dog wants uncomfortable clothes put on it, and to have its routine disrupted by a bunch of boisterous strangers. Take the poor beast outside and throw sticks for it to chase!
lesschumras,
Here’s a problem. Let’s say the children free zone is row 10 to 20. If your sitting in row 20, you’ll still hear a screaming child in row 21
$15 fee to guarantee that your row is adult only and put that pay bracket on the border rows. $30 fee to guarantee that your row and the rows in front of and behind you are adult only. Put that pay bracket in the rows between the border rows.
C’mon, think like an airline exec! 🙂
When I was young, I remember some air trips where the airline provided small boxes of crayons and coloring books full of pictures featuring the airline. It was wins all around. I was kept entertained, neighboring passengers enjoyed the quiet, and to this day I have positive feelings towards that particular airline’s brand. I don’t know if any airline does that anymore.
Parents must prepare for air trips – have quiet entertainment and snacks ready and easily accessible even when the seatbelt light is on. If possible, a hungry and tired infant is a good thing at the beginning of a flight, because the feeding helps with the cabin pressure changes, and in-flight napping is more likely.
I understand the desire for “adult passenger only” sections on airplanes. With the squished seating now common in coach, people are in closer quarters than is comfortable, and some people need to work or rest during the flight. Given the recent trend among airlines to nickel and dime passengers for the last scraps of human decency left in the airplane’s cabin, maybe passengers can be offered an adult-only section fee.
BigGolem,
The shidduch column in the flatbush jewish journal discussed a girl seriously dating a guy with real anger issues. Anything would set off a tirade of cursing and anger.
If he has a bashert, there is a poor girl out there destined to marry him. She can look forward to a very tumultuous married life at best.
Every Jew has a portion in the world to come, but we must earn it through our mitzvos. Similarly, it is our responsibility to become worthy of our bashert. Someone who erupts in tirades of cursing and anger is not worthy of marriage. And, given what we learn in Pirkei Avos regarding violent anger and idol worship, his olam haba may be at risk as well.
kitov,
Can a individual benefit from remaining single ?
Yes – in almost any situation there are benefits and downsides. Decision making usually involves attempts to maximize benefits and minimize risks and downsides. I happen to feel that there are far fewer benefits and far more downsides to being single than there are to be married.
Can a family benefit from a single family member ?
Perhaps, but is it wise for a person to remain single (and not start his own family) because it benefits the families of his relatives?
Can the Orthodox Jewish community gain from a large single population ?
Sure. The community also gains from growing families.
I think both are acceptable unless maybe you are in England, but sneaked is the original past tense for sneak, and snuck is considered a variant (minhag hamakom?).
I wonder which “side” I’m on in the minds of the posters who are divvying up the CR participants into teams. Do we have to choose?
nishtdayngesheft,
“people want to live near the families and friends not some remote area”
Interesting comment from someone who just suggested people move out to Scranton.
In that same post zahavasdad wrote “and you can easily drive to brooklyn in about 3 hours or so, so that you are close to family and friends“, so obviously he sees a difference between moving to Scranton and scattering random people in groups of 100-200 across the entire world. As would any clear thinking person.
Seriously, is your entire purpose for being on the CR to incessantly hound zahavasdad?
gavra_at_work,
OK. Why must a woman keep what you call “Tznius” in an MO community where she dresses to the standards of her community? And what sort of “sin” is she committing?
When lilmod ulelamaid asserted that some “MO” women do not follow all of the halachos of tznius, lesschumras could have responded as you did, “how so?” But he instead essentially responded, “well some people in YOUR camp commit theft! How ’bout that??” That’s a false equivalence, because everybody agrees that a thief is doing the wrong thing (even the thief, because he hides his actions from public view), but the dress code is in debate, with some thinking it is wrong, and others not.
lesschumras,
LU, who are the Rebbaim that you are referring to?
I was curious about that as well.
I’m curious about your definition of MO ( failure to observe tznius).
That’s not how lilmod ulelamaid defined MO. She wrote, “MO has many meanings and contains a very broad range..”
There have been a number of arrests and convictions of right wing Jews in the NY area for all sorts of civil crimes ( Ponzi scbemes, fraud, bribery, slumlords etc ). Does failure to observe these kind of mitzvahs make them MO also?
False equivalence. There is a difference between committing a sin and asserting that an act is not a sin.
WinnieThePooh,
When it comes to halacha, we follow chazal even if modern medicine contradicts it. A very simple example- the tomato is scientifically classified as a fruit, but we say a haadama on it. We don’t say C”V that chazal did not know enough science and got the whole system of classification wrong and therefore we should say ha’etz.
The English-based fruit and vegetable classification really has nothing to do at all with the halachos of brachos. All produce is called “fruit” (pri): borei pri haadoma, borei pri haeitz, borei pri hagafen. So pri seems to refer to the edible parts of plants.
Scientifically, “fruit” (not pri) refers to the seed producing parts of a plant, even when it’s not edible. Vegetables are the edible parts of plants that are not seed bearing. But even that is not the final say on the English word “fruit”, since, in most dictionaries, fruit is defined by its culinary properties (sweet), and vegetables are not-sweet plant products, whether or not they are seed bearing!
So pri != fruit(science) != fruit(culinary)
🙂
I think cases like this (different definitions) are a large part of the perceived contradictions between science and chazal that are not necessarily so.
lightbrite,
Okay hope this isn’t a damp rag on a flame… on the flipside, having an emotional connection can exist independently of a healthy relationship.
Absolutely. And there can be unhealthy emotional connections as well.
It is important to note that true love also comes with respect and the voluntary ability or choice to give and receive. Giving to someone wouldn’t be enough if it comes with unhealthy behaviors and such.
Yes, for sure.
I mention this because it can be confusing when someone both gives to and hurts someone a lot. It can look like love from the outside but inside it’s quite different.
And such behaviors unfortunately can cause bystanders to disbelieve the abused person when s/he decides to do something about it.
At first it sounded foreign but a friend made sense of it to me. She said that she could relate. For example, she is makpid on tznius for Hashem’s sake. It may strengthen her relationship with her husband but the main drive is to do it for Hashem.
I think this is fine, as long as the giving doesn’t come across as a major challenge that needed to be overcome. Nobody wants to feel like a burden to be overcome, even if the one overcoming it grows spiritually from the experience!
WinnieThePooh,
So if a couple sees that they are at the point where they want to give to each other, and are prepared to do so, then they can be assured that the emotional connection will come.
I agree, and that desire to give would reflect an emotional connection that is already being built.
BigGolem,
Would you agree with someone ending a relationship due to lack of emotional connection, even if the other party has everything this person is looking for?
If that were the case, then I’d first investigate why an emotional connection wasn’t forming.
Lilmod ulelamaid,
(you are married, right?).
Yes.
FuturePOTUS,
Infatuation by definition fades away after a certain point. So it wouldn’t be smart to base the relationship on something that will all of a sudden disappear.
Agreed.
(It may not disappear all of a sudden, but the realization that it is gone generally happens in a flash of intuition). The point of infatuation is to kindle a flame between the couple to allow them to use that time to build a much deeper relationship that will last beyond the time that the infatuation fades.
Agreed again.
So as you said, it is real ‘learning.’
I wasn’t referring to infatuation when I made that analogy, but the formation of a loving bond, which one does from day one of marriage.
But it’s not yet strong enough to base an entire relationship on (similar to that we don’t expect a 5th grader to understand a Maharsha.)
I’m not sure I understand. Why does a bond have to be strong or mature before one can base his marriage on it? A farmer bases his livelihood on tiny seeds buried out of sight underground.
So in your opinion, what then should a new couple base their relationship upon?
Forming a loving bond together! Maintaining an awareness that this person has chosen me out of all people to share her life with, and feeling gratitude both to Hashem and to her for that. Always remembering that I chose to marry her and to be her husband, and that this choice is renewed constantly by how I think, speak, and act. To focus on bringing her pleasure, to be kind to her, to make her my top priority, and to make myself worthy of her choice as best as possible.
Step 1: Make sure whatever took out the pilot doesn’t get the co-pilot
Step 2: Co-pilot takes control of the aircraft
Step 3: Everyone argues about the proper protocol for treating the pilot
FuturePOTUS,
I didn’t see your first response to my post before I responded to your second.
But I think we have to make a differentiation in love. Infatuation is not love,
100% agree here.
and it is nearly impossible to attain a real feeling of love in the beginning stages of a marriage, because it is something that can only be reached with long-term effort, commitment, and a real knowledge and appreciation for one’s spouse.
I mostly agree with you here, except I think we’re defining “real love” differently. You seem to consider real love to be the mature loving bond of a long lasting healthy marriage. I agree that this is not attainable in the first stages of a marriage. Just like we don’t expect someone in their first year of learning to master a tractate of Gemara. But I do think that someone learning their alef-beis is accomplishing “real” learning. The appreciation and commitment can and must start on day 1.
I’m guessing our discussion will largely boil down to differences in how we’re defining terms 🙂
So to start, I believe we can agree that basing a relationship on infatuation, and therefore on the feeling people think love is, will not work out, for the above reason that that comes and goes and isn’t yet substantial.
Yes, I agree 100%. I think unfortunately the American culture surrounding us conflates infatuation with love, to the detriment of marriages. Secular fairy tale “love” stories always end with, “and they lived happily ever after” right when the real love story is supposed to be beginning!
FuturePOTUS,
Basing a relationship on real love is a different question.
Ok – any thoughts on that question?
When a marriage starts, love simply isn’t there, infatuation is,
Infatuation is a natural, G-d given feeling, and it has its place. It’s like the very bright flames that jump up when you put a match to kindling. If you carefully put logs on the kindling and tend the fire, you’ll get long lasting warmth that is difficult to put out (and you can toss more kindling onto the logs to get big flames again when wanted!). If you don’t do anything to tend the fire, however, the flames will die out as soon as the kindling is gone.
so when starting a relationship it’s impossible by definition to base a relationship on love.
Why not? Of course love after iy”H many years of marriage is very different from love in the first year. But I see love as an active decision more than a feeling. Would you say that a chosson saying “I love you” to his kalla is not being truthful?
One other thing to point out – when calling 911, stay on the line and on the scene if at all possible, because the operator can give you lifesaving instructions over the phone while waiting for help to arrive.
Health does have a very interesting point, though I’m not sure why he cloaked such important information into a guessing game.
I got CPR certified years ago, and despite numerous devices intended to simply the process (jingles like, “hey! Are you ok? You – go call 911!” to remember first trying to speak to the person and then getting another bystander to call emergency services – and ABC’s for first opening the airway by tilting the chin up, then breathing mouth-to-mouth, then compressions, repeat), the process was still daunting. Even though I was certified, if I had G-d forbid ever had to use it, I would have been very scared to do so, and overthinking the process.
When Health posted his answer, I thought he left out a step – checking for a pulse – because I originally learned that doing compressions on someone with a heartbeat could be harmful to them. This caused me to look at more recent instructions, and it seems like the process has been simplified extensively from when I learned it. E.g., no more mouth-to-mouth breathing, and focus on compressions alone, which in fact are unlikely to be harmful even if inadvertently done on someone with a heartbeat. This updated guidance seems geared towards encouraging more bystanders, even those untrained, to do something. Because in a case of cardiac arrest, anything is better than nothing, and those first few minutes before the emergency responders arrive are crucial for survival.
FuturePOTUS,
A marriage should never be based on love,
I disagree. Love is the foundation of a healthy marriage, and Hashem wants it to be the foundation of our relationship with Him (what comes after Shema and Baruch Sheim? V’ahavta).
especially conditional love,
There is no such thing as “conditional love.” That’s just a euphemism for manipulative behavior.
because love is a fickle thing
Love isn’t some external thing that flitters on to you and flutters off on its own will. Love is an active choice.
and if one person isn’t feeling it one day, then the whole thing goes down the drain.
I’ve never woken up and decided “I’m just not feelin’ the love today.” Yes I’ve woken up sleep deprived and in a sour mood, or annoyed by something, but those feelings are like dust on glass. They are the ephemeral feelings that can and should be brushed away. Proper perspective on our emotions is vital.
Marriage must have a permanent foundation. Ideally, it should be based on Torah and the husband and wife should take advantage of their marriage and relationship to help bring each other to new levels of avodas Hashem.
Agreed. But love is the fuel that makes that engine go.
Practically, that’s mostly impossible to implement for ordinary people
Why?
so a marriage should be based on a shared future together and for their children, which is something that doesn’t change and isn’t subject to the whims of emotion.
Why would we base our marriage on something we have absolutely no control over?
zahavasdad,
Saying we are all sinners and need to do tshuva sounds very similar to a philosophy of a relgion started by a man whose big birthday bash is coming up this weekend
+1 to DaasYochid’s response. The “we are all sinners” philosophy is not where the birthday bash religion errs. Rather, their philosophy states that teshuva is worthless, and man must therefore accept their avoda zara in order to be “saved” from eternal torment that is due to man for even the tiniest transgression.
The Torah teaches us that Hashem accepts our teshuva lovingly and desires that we come close to him, and that work is meaningful even if we are imperfect creatures. And that Hashem is fair in judgement, not a sadistic tormentor.
Joseph,
Those are good points, however, I still see a world of difference between the words and intentions of the Tosfos Yom Tov, Rav Avigdor Miller, the Chofetz Chaim, and other gedolim and Torah leaders, and the parody above.
Mashiach Agent careened between two contradictory metaphors, and the second one (the doctor with the patient not following the treatment plan) was offensive. I disagree with his rhetorical question suggesting that Hashem might CV”S be callous to Jewish suffering: does [He] have any reason to feel bad? How would he know what Hashem thinks? Would Rav Miller ever have said something like that about Hashem?
I also object strongly to the lashon hara he spoke about the Jewish people: suggesting that almost all of us simply threw news of the murder of a child over our shoulder and didn’t care about our brother. That he is “not surprised” that we are beset by tragedies [because we’re such a rotten nation in his eyes after all]. What would the Chofetz Chaim have said about such words and implications hurled at the holy nation?
I know Mashiach Agent’s posts are satire; however, I feel the need to point out a critical distinction between what the Chofetz Chaim said and the parody here. The Chofetz Chaim’s words are instructions for how we should respond upon hearing about tragedies. The fact that we heard about it is meaningful, and we should take meaningful action as a response. This is very different from playing prophet and purporting to know Hashem’s reasons for any given tragedy. Not even Moshe Rabbeinu achieved that level of prophecy (????????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??? ???????). Also, I find the portrayal of Hashem’s dealings with us as a tit-for-tat dangerously mistaken, even in jest.
WolfishMusings,
I’m confused, why wouldn’t it be a chessed?
Hi!
Lenny1970,
Avram, if you’ve ever known a wife who has checked out, you would know your solution is more polyanic than anything else. But thanks anyway.
In reading through your posts to this thread, we find that:
1. Upon being told by a rav to do more to make your wife happy, you retorted, “how”? And 11 (!) years later, you still have no answer.
2. Upon “finally” hearing why your wife is so angry with you (that’s much different from “checking out”, by the way), your reaction is to discount and minimize her feelings, calling it “dumb stuff.”
3. When encountering slight difficulties, such as Rav Simcha Bunim Cohen not returning your call, or $150 counseling fees, you didn’t follow up, even though what supposedly is the most important thing in your life – your marriage – is on the line.
4. Almost every interaction with your wife you have described involves some form of coercion.
I don’t know if your wife has “checked out” or not. We haven’t heard her side. But it seems like you have checked out of the marriage yourself, and not recently.
Bentch friends.
I don’t think a two-handled cup is needed for washing before bread either. A regular cup will do in this case too. But it should be large and not have a spout at top (so the disposable cup is better than the water bottle in this case).
lilmod ulelamaid,
the question is how to get to that point (of being married) and different people need different things.
I agree. My post was more in response to the notion bandied about in this thread that’s tangential to the OP, that there is a strong relationship between the number or type of dates and the health of the subsequent marriage.
We’re discussing elementary school aged children here (i.e., ages 5-11), right?
With regard to happy marriages and reducing divorces, I think one’s attitude and conduct after the chuppa is much more important than how many dates happened beforehand, or what kind of dates, etc. There is no magical formula to plug in before a marriage that guarantees success. That’s a fairy tale, and all fairy tales end before the real love story begins. A spouse must wake up each and every morning and actively decide to be committed to his/her marriage.
lightbrite,
Why not use a water bottle or disposable cup?
Lenny1970,
Avram, imagine living a life where the children and grandchildren are full of midos. No money or health issues. But things are going terribly wrong in your marriage. Would you try and fix the marriage or divorce?
I would try to fix my marriage even if I R”L had money or health issues, or if my kids lacked middos. However, nothing you have written in this thread indicates that you are attempting to or have any interest in fixing your marriage. Rather, you are attempting to coerce your wife into staying married to you.
Consider the difference between:
I want to go into counseling so that I can understand you better, and understand what happened in our marriage, because that is important to me no matter whether we stay together or not.
And
I will only go to counseling if you drop the demand for a get. Otherwise it’s a waste of my $150 bucks.
lilmod ulelamaid,
ZD – please read my post carefully before commenting on it. Nothing you said in your last two posts relates to my comment.
I disagree. Zahavasdad responded to your “if it’s assur, it’s assur” comment with:
And Like I said there are plenty who say because there is no Kinyan it is not a Halachic Sale
and
i am VERY familiar with the process and the Halachas.
These responses seem to me to be an argument that his type of business is mutar, which does relate to your post. Perhaps you are looking for him to say that he personally asked a shaila and got a psak, but you haven’t asked that directly.
lesschumras,
Avram, no, it’s not. I’ve asked her repeatedly to back up her sweeping assertions, which are routinely ignored.
Hogwash. I’ve followed this thread too. At the beginning of this thread, lilmod ulelamaid was quite careful to prepend her statements with phrases such as “I think”, or “Maybe”, and occasionally added statements such as, “I might be wrong.” And she was respectful of others’ opinions. She did make an assertion right before your first post of seeing a correlation between short courtship and healthy marriage, which you could totally have questioned. But instead, you launched this invective:
Lu, are you Joseph? You keep justifying your opinions by using the ambiguous “many people”. How many is many and please cite use actual stats ( and cite your sources ) to support your claims
That request didn’t even make sense based on what she wrote before. In a thread full of personal opinions, why are you singling out lilmod ulelamaid for this harshness and extra-stringent standard?
Lenny1970,
Why do you want to stay married to this woman?
lesschumras,
LU, you constantly make broad, sweeping claims…
by now you must realize that LU bases all of her generalizations…
Emphases mine.
Pot calling the kettle black?
Enough Divorces,
There is usually not one abuser and one quiet sufferer.
How do you know?
If the silent spouse would communicate better with the ‘abuser’ spouse, and work things out (even if not equally fair), then most probably the ‘abuser’ spouse would not be yelling.
Yeah, and if only people would not have wallets, then robbers wouldn’t mug them. Stupid victims.
I know of marriages where one spouse is very aggressive, and the other spouse learned how to accommodate him/her and they are very happily married with no yelling at all.
There is a big difference between an aggressive personality (i.e., direct, confrontational, let it all out) and abusive behavior. The former is an attempt to communicate, the latter is an attempt to control.
If we believed more in the sanctity of marriage
I believe deeply in the sanctity of my marriage, therefore I do not yell at my wife. Just like I do not throw my tefillin on the ground in a rage. There are some things that we just do not do.
Joseph,
I missed that. Sorry. You remain firmly on the straight and narrow 🙂