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November 22, 2017 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409471
And another really important thing we should all agree on I’d the importance of learning inyonei moshiach uGeula on a constant basis. Otherwise, how will we be excited to bring Moshiach and wrap our whole lives around this if we don’t even know what we’re working for? And on a continual basis to keep the chayus going. The Rebbe specifically asked us for this. Anyhow there is plenty to agree on in this vein… Lchaim.November 22, 2017 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409468
But regardless of anyone’s personal views in light of the gimmel tammuz difficulties, this I think we can all agree on: the main thing is to do everything everything everything we can do to bring Moshiach! And no matter who the Lubavitcher is, everyone will agree that this whole is the Rebbe gonna be Moshiach question is all really a side point and the definite main emphasis should be to bring Moshiach with Oirois dTohu bkeilim dtikkun. So in the vein of the Rebbe we need to constantly ask ourselves what are we doing to bring Moshiach here? You’re going in mivtzoim, great and as the Rebbe would say, keep adding! As for me I’m trying to raise chassidim of the Rebbe and run several programs that add to making this world Dirah Noeh for Hashem. And I keep asking myself and looking out to do more. This we can agree on sechel hayashar, correct?November 22, 2017 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409463
@ sechel hayashar actually it reveals more about who I married…
Anyhow I don’t see why anyone has to hate anyone. We are having a very nice learned discussion here and not hating each other with the exception of like half a percent that you’ll find anywhere. As long as it’s based on Torah, there is nothing to hate we can just have different opinions and that’s just fine. It’s even a Torah value- Shivim panim lTorah, ain deioseihem shavos… So let’s just keep everything in the spirit of Ahavas Yisrael. I think that said more than anything else.November 22, 2017 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409459
Rabbi Mann!!! Of Toronto! Now this Rabbi Mann is a real chossid, yorei shomayim and lamdan, possibly even a beinoni. Honestly. Hes a Yerushalmi lubavitcher and brilliant brilliant. Don’t know if this means anything but he was the only one able to answer certain questions I had in reconciling different concepts in chassidus and he blew me away with his ability to explain complicated concepts in a very uncomplicated way. That’s why my first conviction was that it must be a sicha- anything he says is heavily sourced.
An yeah I shouldn’t have copped out. I got a kick out of using the daaton Kalos line though:) and also it really is harder for me to defend a position based on nitty gritty and not a deep understanding so it is true. So it got me like a lightning bolt that I remembered who it was and then I saw your last post that it couldn’t have possibly been anyone other than a woman or bachur. Thought that was hilarious. But yeah there you have it. And btw who would you think would teach me the nitty gritty if not a man lol?November 22, 2017 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409453
@ sechel hayashar ha I love this! Such hp! I’m in a different time zone, so trying to fall asleep and all of a sudden it hits me where those pshatim in Rambam are from! I learned it as part of the inyonei geula uMoshiach class in high school with guess who?November 22, 2017 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409436
Are we all clear? Any further questions?November 22, 2017 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409435
@avik going through the posts now I see why I didn’t address your question, because it looks like it’s meant lhachis, not a serious question at all. I’m sure if you’ve read this thread, you’d have your answer. I’m out to answer legitimate questions not people looking for a fight. Hope this clarifiesNovember 22, 2017 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409414
@Joseph actually this may come as a surprise but if the title shlucha did not come from the Rebbe himself, it was definitely Rebbe inspired. The Rebbe constantly told the young women of the couples he sent out that they shouldn’t only see themselves as the rabbis wife, but as a full partner to their husband’s shlichus. In fact, the Rebbe said that the women need to do their own unique shlichus with the women just like it was with Avrahom avinu and Sara Imeinu- Avrahom migayer es hoanashim vSara mgayeres es hanoshim. Equal partners and equal shluchim. The Rebbe advocated putting family and children first, but as much as possible to reach out with shlichus activities to other women and start their own programs.
If you’d like to hear more on this, you’re welcome to start a feminism/yiddishkeit/Rebbe thread:):)
2) actually the Rebbe started the lag baomer parades to encourage Jewish pride in the 1950s I think, because people where living in a ghetto mentality where they were ashamed to be seen in the world looking Jewish…November 22, 2017 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409389
@WTP glad you get it and really all of this is predicated on you knowing about the Rebbe, learning a bit about who he is and represents. And maybe watching some of the my encounters with all types of Yidden talking about how the Rebbe inspired an affected them. Do you know R Baruch Ber cried when the Rebbe gently refused his offer to become his top talmid and the next leading gadol in the Litvishe world? So yeah if it was a regular person like you it me, I would say na I can’t believe that, there’s some personal agenda at hand. But knowing the Rebbe, and I know the Rebbe even though I was born three months before gimmel tammuz, I got my brachos to get married, go on shlichus etc. It’s a neshama connection. So knowing the Rebbe it makes sense. Otherwise, nothing makes senseNovember 22, 2017 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409383
@whoever is dictating how to understand the Rambam: look this isn’t my expertise, and as nashim daaton Kalos, I think I’ll hand over this nitty gritty stuff to the chabad males out there:) and I’m sure there are men that can explain this stuff- just they may be found in the nearest Chabad yeshiva near you (excluding Detroit and Chicago which are known as non meshichist to the fullest degree.) And they probably won’t be on this CR forum. Not trying to cop out- my strength as a woman is binah, not this nitty gritty compare and contrast on details that done make a major difference to my life:)
Of course if you really can’t do that and it really really bothers you, lmk and I’ll do my best to call one of these amazing rabbis and get back to you:)November 22, 2017 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409360
1. You actually didn’t answer the second part of my first question, about why the line of chabad davka were the conduits to bring down the shechiina but not other greats, but just nitpicked with me using the word avos not literally to mean all 7 of our great ancestors, and not just the 3 actual Avos. If I get what you are inferring though from your other answers, the chabad zaddik is in a class of his own, he is the only Moshe in the generation, everyone else is a lower madreiga, just as zekeinim were lower than Moshe, including other great rebbeim from other lineages, even those who lived in times when tzaddikim were more abundant than they are now, as you say. If this is in fact what you are saying, it sheds light on a lot of the issues raised in the previous (closed) thread.
Look WTP I’m with you. I also thought about that how it seems unfair that it’s all Lubavitch who were the Moshe Rabbeinu. If it was more spread out, I would be very happy.
But thinking about it now, referring back to the visit the Baal Shem Tov made to Moshiachs heichal in shomayim, in tof kuf zayin, was that fair? All Yidden serve Hashem, why should chassidus be singled out as the wellsprings through which being spread will bring Moshiach. The Gra was an extremely holy Gaon. How come it’s not his teachings?
But if you think about it, it’s the same question that comes up across the board: why are the Jewish people the chosen people? Especially as some of them are real rotten? Why are some Yidden Kohanim and get special privileges?
An it’s the same answer. No we’re not better than anyone else. But this is the path that Hashem has chosen for all Yidden to serve Him with- through learning chassidus and becoming one with our neshama, our fellow Jews and our creator, and revealing the G-dly depths within every physical thing. For Hashem did not create all the worlds for the sake of spirituality, but rather so that this physical world, which seems the farthest anyone can get from Him, should discover Him within their realm. This understanding and application is the treasure chassidus gives us. And since this is the point of creation, to quote the medrash famous within Lubavitch: “Nisave Hkbh liyos Lo Yisbarech dira Btachtonim.” The point is this world, not olam haba. Because otherwise as explained in Tanya chapter 37 I believe, it would have been better for all the higher worlds not to have been created. For if the point is spirituality, what can be more spiritual than being One with Hashem?
So no, Chabad tzaddikim are not better than any other tzaddik just as Moshe Rabbeinu wasn’t greater than Aharon his brother. He was just the one picked by Hashem to lead the Yidden with his path. And so too, Hashem sent down to this world an entirely new neshama from the era of Moshiachs times that had never come before to this world in any other gilgul, to reveal the treasures of pnimiyus haTorah. This special soul was embodied by the Alter Rebbe, the founder of Chassidus Chabad.
So if chassidus is the path through which to bring Moshiach, it logically follows that the successive Rebbeim who followed that path would be to Moshe shebidoram.
2. We say “Moshe kibel Torah M’Sinai., Umesora l’Yehosua, VYehoshua L’Zekeinim ,etc.” The idea that the leadership on one person was unique to the dor that received the Torah, and then next, as Yehoshua was an extension of Moshe. But after that, it was always a group of Rabbanim/chachamim/Neviim who channeled Torah to the people. There was not one great leader. How do you reconcile this with the Nasi/Moshe B’Doro concept?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but there was always an Av beis din, or Nassi or similar office which played the role of Moshe Rabbeinu.
3. You state that chabadnikim could not choose a new Rebbe because they could not find a good enough tzaddik. But based on what you said, all they need is a beinoni, who strives and hates sin, and then Hashem will gift him with the traits of being a tzaddik so that he can lead the flock. Was there no one like this in all of chabad, all striving in Avodas Hashem along the systematic understandable path that only chabad provides?
Firstly I hope you understand what a beinoni is. Most people try to have beinoni moments as explained in perek yud daled of Tanya. Someone who does one aveira in fifty years is a rasha vtov lo. There are hundreds of levels within rasha vtov lo, depending on how much of his yetzer overrides his nefesh elokis (when he gives in to it). So it is a very high level to be a beinoni to put it lightly. There are some suspected beinonim within Lubavitch afaik. Obviously the only one who would really know that is Hashem and maybe the person themselves.
But as said, the level of tzaddik is a gift given to those who have sees are really trying to not only be a beinoni but also copy tzaddik behaviors, such as truly despising bad. And as it is a gift He decides when to who and if He gives it.
And in the meantime, no we do not know of a tzaddik within Lubavitch right now.November 22, 2017 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409365
“Is a Shlucha to a Shliach the same as a Rabba is to a Rabbi?”
Not at all. Afaik, a woman cannot be a Rabbi as it is against halacha, an definitely against mesorah. Why would you get that impression may I ask?November 22, 2017 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409266
Of course. So why does such a high percentage of Chabad believe he is moshiach (with the prime disagreement being whether to be public about it – perhaps it’s not “Bkeilim dtikkun- in ways that are acceptable within this world”)?
@daasyochid you really get it.
I think if Chabad would place more of a focus on regular learning (the lack of which is lamented by many old time Lubavichers), they wouldn’t twist things to fit their emotional agenda
Fake news as they say nowadays.
Please use quotes or italics when quoting other posts. ThanksNovember 22, 2017 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409256
@avrammd if you want to ask these kind of questions, it would be a good idea to see the Rambam in the original. It’s hilchos melachim prakim 11-12. Just to answer, it says Yilchom- as in present ongoing tense. Then if he finishes it, plus the other two conditions, then he is Moshiach vadai.November 22, 2017 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409245
@5ish I’m trying to answer the questions in order, and I don’t recall skipping yours. Can you either repost, or wait until there are no more questions and I’ll scroll through all until I find yours?November 22, 2017 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409237
@daasyochid m assuming you’re joking as Moshiach can’t be a womanNovember 22, 2017 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409234
“Who told you that ‘וילחם מלחמת ה means sending out shluchim and being mekarev Yidden? Is that the pshat in the rambam? Please read the Rambam again, with an intellectually honest outlook, and you’ll see that the Rebbe wasn’t Chezkas Moshiach.”
If I’m not mistaken there may be a sicha on it, I definitely learned that somewhere but I don’t remember the exact source unfortunately, and I would think that it it is a sicha you would have come across it. Look, when you read it it reads wars, but notice the Rambam doesn’t use a lashon like milchamos haumos, milchemes got umagog or what have you, he specifically said milchemes Hashem, and as all mefarshim, geonim etc through the Taz and Bach wrote their peirushim with ruach hakodesh, I could definitely see how this could refer to a spiritual was for Hashem. Being that you’ve seen the Rebbe express this many times when explaining the exact words Rashi chose, I’m not sure why this would surprise you?
“FYI, I’m a regular Lubavitcher, I do Chitas and Rambam, and I go on Mivtzoim every Friday…”
Lol this cracked me up. I don’t have any doubts on your chassidishkeit, your understanding of a Rambam has nothing to do with your chassidishkeit so really I’m sort of honored you feel the need to excuse yourself, but no need at all!November 22, 2017 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409226
“For the purposes of respectful interactions, it’s probably best to write out Chabad chassidus when interacting with Jews who are not Lubavitchers. If someone explained a non-Chabad idea to you and told you he was explaining Judaism to you, you’d probably be offended.”
@avrammd you’re quite right I’ll have that in mind in the future. Not intentional at all.November 22, 2017 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409219
Is that the only reason the last Rebbe has no successor? Or did the Rebbe also indicate he’s Moshiach?
Yes Joseph you got my intent- ie that’s the other reason. As an aside I once asked a teacher in high school- why must the Rebbe still be there Nassi Hador and thus the Moshiach shebador? Maybe there’s a new Nassi Hador out there, not in the world of Lubavitch? She answered that by the first Maamar the Rebbe said that this is for shvii and our task is to bring Moshiach. Until we do that we’re still dor shvii with the Rebbe as our leader.
“So in nun aleph, nun beis, when this Moshiach excitement was going on, along with the hints, every chossid, from what I hear, expected the Rebbe to reveal himself as Moshiach and lead all Yidden to eretz Yisrael.”
What Moshiach excitement was going on then more than before? And why’d his Chasidim all suddenly about then expect him to announce that he’s Moshiach?
Because the Rebbe was saying Oirois dTohu kind of things like look Moshiach is already here, we just need to open up our eyes.
And much more things like that, week after week. I would quote more but since it’s not your typical statement, I won’t say things unless it’s exactly what he said. You’re welcome to look it up on Hebrew books.org under Sefer hasichos 5751 and 5752.
But as the Rebbe himself instructed it was always bkeilim dtikkun. The Rebbe would never stand up and yell some wild crazy sounding line. There was always a very logical context to his very revolutionary ideas- usually within the context of advar Torah on the parsha.
What about the Besht or the Maggid or the Baal HaTanya? Their influence is gone or less than the last Rebbe so they can all be referred to as having passed on, unlike the last Rebbe?
The next Rebbe carried on their legacy and they all carried and passed down the neshama of Moshe Rabbeinu. As the Rebbe once referred to the Previous Rebbe by saying, nishmaso bi.November 22, 2017 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409146
@sechel hayashar ok I stand corrected on that. The exact phrase is Nassi Hador hu haMoshiach shebador, not Moshe Rabbeinu shebador hu haMoshiach shebador
And yes I was hoping that would come up in the follow up. The Rebbe strongly urged us to do everything possible to bring Moshiach but in case someone starts getting any ideas that are not in line with Torah, the Rebbe urged this be done – and this is famous within Chabad- as “Oirois dTohu bkeilim dtikkun.”
Oirois dTohu means the lights/energies of the worlds of Tohu which were spiritual worlds created before our world, but they crashed and shattered so to speak because the G-dly energies that animated then we’re way to strong. Like plugging an iPhone into an electricity generator. So Oirois dTohu means we need to work with extremely high energy and maybe even crazy ideas. But how?
Bkeilim dtikkun- in ways that are acceptable within this world.
I’ve tried to help achdus between Yidden in this thread with this phrase very much in mindNovember 22, 2017 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409142
@avik there are four conditions to qualify as chezkas Moshiach as per the Rambam:
1) descended from beis Dovid (the Rebbe was)
2) well versed in Torah and toiling in mitzvos like Dovid his father
3) compels all Yisrael to go in the ways of Torah and strengthens it’s breaches
3) fights the wars of Hashem
Then we may with assurance, consider him Moshiach.
1) succeeds in all the above
2) builds the bhmk
3) does kibutz golios
Then he is indeed Moshiach and then he will get the entire world to serve Hashem together.
The Rebbe definitely fulfilled the first four: he started the momentous baal teshuva movement as waged the wars of Hashem against assimilation the continuation of which is ongoing by his over 5000 shluchim. And all it takes to qualify is sincere effort, not complete success as that is the first of the conditions for Moshiach vadaiNovember 22, 2017 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409134
@Daasyochid No way!! That can only happen when the geula occurs. Right now we are still in golus very unfortunately. For further clarification see the Cato’s meanings of Moshiach explained in my third post,I thinkNovember 22, 2017 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409086
Most chassidim though do not think the Rebbe is gone because his influence strongly lives and inspires and motivates us till today. So we won’t refer to the Rebbe as having passed on etc. And this is the definition given in the gemara for Yaakov Avinu when it says Yaakov Avinu love mes. “Ma zaro bachayim, af hu bachayim” as long as we continue the Rebbe’s work, especially the shluchim, the Rebbe lives with us. We are the Rebbe’s hands and feet. And we will keep going until our work, together with the rest of klal Yisrael- brings the geula as the Rebbe wanted so badlyNovember 22, 2017 12:24 pm at 12:24 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409081
Then there were other chassidim who said look, the Rebbe never lied to us. The Rebbe predicted things the seemed nuts, and they all came true, such as the outcome of the Gulf war on a global level, and hundreds or maybe thousands of personal accounts of the Rebbe’s ruach hakodesh.
So maybe it seems a bit illogical but why should we distrust what the Rebbe said now? Everything else came true, this will as well.
These are the Meshichistim.
Most do not run around with a yellow flag. In fact the ones who do run around with the yellow flag are mostly not yet mature bochurim from tzfas who act a bit crazy but then again, I’d much rather my teen be doing that and normalize but still be a fiery chossid when he gets older, than get into movies or other things teens do when they go a little extreme.November 22, 2017 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409067
So in nun aleph, nun beis, when this Moshiach excitement was going on, along with the hints, every chossid, from what I hear, expected the Rebbe to reveal himself as Moshiach and lead all Yidden to eretz Yisrael.
Halfway through nun beis- 1992, the Rebbe had a stroke. After the stroke, the chassidim thought this must be an obstacle we must go through before Moshiach is revealed, so they kept up their belief and hope in the Rebbe’s words. They also would quite often burst into the song of Yechi, addressing the Rebbe as Moshiach and the Rebbe would nod his head encouraging the song. Up until gimmel tammuz, nun daled -94, no one would dare even say that maybe the Rebbe won’t get better…
Until one day. Gimmel tammuz hit us. And there was no sicha of the Rebbe to explain what happened. (Some chassidim see a sicha said on gimmel tammuz years earlier to address this situation.)
Here for the first time there was a split.
Some chassidim said Look things didn’t work out according to plan, so that’s it. The games up and the Rebbe was nistalek and there must be some explanation for this but that’s it, we’re orphaned from our Rebbe and we’ll try to live by his teachings and continue in his party and keep his memory alive. These people will speak of the Rebbe in past tense etc.November 22, 2017 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409033
After that first Maamar, the Rebbe stopped speaking about our mission and Moshiach, for the most part, and stared doing. The new ten twenty years the Rebbe spoke how we can’t be satisfied with just sitting in the beis medrash and worrying about our own spiritual growth when there is a fire of assimilation consuming our fellow Jews. We need to get out there and bring those Jews in. Instead of cutting ourselves off from the world e need to bring other Yidden back to yiddishkeit. That was the message the Rebbe pounded into his chassidim amongst many other important ones, such as how yiddishkeit is the true feminism- that one’s close to my heart:)
Then in the tof shin mems- 80s the Rebbe started sending lots of shluchim out and starting mitzvah campaigns like giving out Shabbos candles to women, it putting on Tefillin with men. Which was unheard of by the time. The idea was every mitzvah is precious no matter what came before or followsNovember 22, 2017 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409031
@gaon thanks that’s interesting! And ties into further concepts as well… But I think it’s time to move on:)November 22, 2017 11:59 am at 11:59 am in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1409030
@avik and @chaimeliezer if you stick around to the end and follow the discussion, I think you won’t be left with these questions. If you are I’ll be happy to answer.
1. You called these concepts “chassidus 101” which means that they are true for all chassidus, and are not just Chabad/tanya tenets?
what is unique about Chabad chassidus and why it is termed this, is because the Rebbeim too these lofty neshama and Elokus concepts, some of which we have been discussing, and made it understandable to the laymen. All other chassidus groups follow the ways of chassidus such as having a Rebbe, but don’t have a systematic understandable path of how the layman can grow in his avodas Hashem without the tzaddiks direct influence. So when I say chassidus 101 I am referring to Chabad chassidus.
Presumably, every group will believe that their Rebbe is a tzaddik.
There were more tzaddikim before the war, but it seems train now are in short supply as per a conversation I had with the granddaughter of another Rebbe.
You stated that the tzaddik has the neshama of Moshe Rabbeinu, and every generation has one. But if every group has a tzaddik, then every group has its Moshe Rabbeinu? Or are some Rebbes/Tzaddikim bigger than others, and the rest are just imposters (no disrespect to any Rebbe meant, just trying to understand how this fits the bigger picture).
Neither. Just like by Moshe Rabbeinu, there were many leaders- the 70 judges, the Princes of the Shvatim etc. who we all leaders and tzaddikim, but there was only one Moshe Rabbeinu, so to in every generation…
Along a similar vein, when you quoted from the Rebbe that he was the 7th generation, implying that like the Avos, each Rebbe brought the shechina down one level, with the last Rebbe having the mission to complete the process and bring Mashiach, my question is: what about all the other great Tzaddikim/Rebbeim thru the generations outside of the chain of Chabad- they were not capable of this too? why exclude the Besht and the Maggid of Mezeritch and Rav Shmelke and the Noam Elimelech, just to name a famous few?
Firstly it wasn’t just the Avos, it was the leaders of seven generations from the Avos through Moshe. Amram was one as well, I can look up the medrash or maybe seven hayashar or anyone else can fill in the others. I think it was Levi Kehas Amram, Moshe.
2. I think you are saying that being a tzaddik is not a process a person can do himself, as you call it a gift from Hashem. It is not that someone worked on himself to get to this level, but that Hashem chooses a leader in each generation and bestows on him the level of Tzaddik. Would that be correct?
Sort of. A person does all within his power, and once he reaches the level of beinoni and tries to also feel disgust for bad like a tzaddik, then Hashem will bestow the madreiga of tzaddik upon him.
Does that explain the Rebbe hierarchy (in any chassidus)- how automatically a son/son-in law/ nearest relative takes over from the previous Rebbe and becomes a Tzaddik, no matter what his age or level of Torah learning?
Firstly, it doesn’t always work that way, the Maggid of Mezritch was not physically related to the Baal Shem Tov and neither was the Baal HaTanya related to the Maggid for two examples.
But if the son/in law merits the title he comes before everyone else.
Secondly, I’m not sure if this is unique to Chabad, but the chassidim have to approve and accept the new Rebbe- one of the reasons no one became the new Rebbe- we haven’t found anyone of the Rebbe’s caliber or a tzaddik, to replace him.
Hope that answers and I really enjoyed these questionsNovember 22, 2017 11:28 am at 11:28 am in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408985
@Joseph as soon as I can while giving a thorough understanding. Unfortunately, I as am sure everyone here, cannot monitor the CR constantly to reply the minute a question is asked. I’m doing my best and definitely not procrastinating. After I address WTP questions, excellent questions if I may say so myself, I will gladly continue.November 22, 2017 8:14 am at 8:14 am in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408832
“@chabadshlucha, I agree with most of want you’re saying besides one thing. “Moshiach Shebador” isn’t a halachic concept, it’s not based on the Rambam, so it’s not the greatest point to bring in an argument.”
Correct me if I’m wondering but I don’t recall saying it is from Rambam, I said the other two are. It comes up allot in chassidus and I’ve read stories of the Baal Shem tov to that effect as well, so it is not a recent concept.
Also I’m not arguing. I think the Litvishe world has the right to understand what we are thinking and where we disagree so I’m educating, not arguing. I feel there is a real interest for the most part as you can judge for yourself by the feedback.
“Secondly, nowhere does it says that the משה שבדור is משיח שבדור.”
Please look up the phrase “Nassi Hador hu haMoshiach shebador.” Nassi Hador is another way of saying Moshe Rabbeinu of the generation, just shorter:). If you still can’t find it, I’ll Google it myself and tell you an exact source, although as a fellow Lubavitcher I’d be surprised if you haven’t come across it yet.
“Saying it will not help you prove you point. I don’t understand why you are seemingly trying to validate or legitimise beliefs that are based on emotion, not intellect through logic.”
Certainly everything we do as Yidden is it most certainly should be sourced in emuna which is an emotion. However, especially especially as Chabad chassidim, we endeavor to bring this emuna down into the rational would so our mind can agree with it as well. And this is very very important. If you believe you are a butterfly, people will think you are crazy because that is not their experience. Some extreme people may even label you an apikoris:) but if you can prove how you are, you won’t seem silly anymore.
I’m just giving over what I’ve taught and seen for myself. I think the world has the right to know it especially as there some people running around looking crazy because they don’t bother explaining how they got there. To the uninitiated eye btw, all Jews can look crazy too. So it’s not about how why look it’s about why. You’re welcome to disagree with me and explain how you draw a different conclusion. But I think it is high time that all lubavitchers as all Jews, should stick together, because people don’t differentiate, and if you label meshichistim crazy to the oilam you come in contact with, they’ll in turn ok at you as bring crazy for being a lubavitcher. So pirud doesn’t help anyone, achdus helps everyone. That’s what I believe and that’s why I’m here. And I know this is a Torah value, not just my belief.
If I were trying to defend or explain it, I would simply say, that Chassidim believe that their Rebbe was the most worthy of being Moshiach, were he to come in his time. Such belief is no novelty, it’s seen in the Gemara, and in past generations there were other Chassidim who believed this about their Rebbe, (such as Vizhnitz).
This is true. Another point to bring in eventually. But you do yo see we are a bit different, no one else goes to the lengths we do and are as passionate about it. So I though I’ll just give the inside scoop.
To conclude, never ever, not even once did the rebber ever declare or otherwise insinuate that he was Moshiach. ( Once, Rabbi L Groner, a secretary of the Rebbe handed the Rebbe a letter which had been received and was addressed to “Moshiach”, the Rebbe said “I’ll give it to him when he comes”.
I haven’t addressed that yet.
That said, if someone chooses to believe that the Rebbe or any Rebbe is Moshiach, that doesn’t make him a Kofer or anything. It may be foolish to believe so after his passing, but definitely isn’t assur in any way, shape or form.
See above as to why I think this attitude ruins things for everyone.November 22, 2017 8:11 am at 8:11 am in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408831
Although I see how you can draw that conclusion (because the Rebbe had just said that the Lubavitcher Rebbe of each generation was the Nossi Hador aka Moshe Rabbeinu of the generation, and the Nossi hador is the Moshiach shebador) I don’t think any of the chassidim too it that way. There were me 100 people in the room, people who had escaped the Holocaust and Soviet Russia, and it seemed so unrealistic (from what I’ve heard.) This was in 1950.
Like right, we’re supposed to bring Moshiach? Us broken survivors? Here in America? Like how exactly…November 22, 2017 8:10 am at 8:10 am in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408830
Exciting to see this great feedback! Keep it coming! Looking forward to addressing all questions before moving on.November 21, 2017 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm in reply to: The Five Thousand Dollar Dress #1408694
I’m not telling lofty I’m saying very practical. Let’s say the marriage fails CVS. The man walks out, healthy strong, and now he’s single with no family to support. He’s not lifting, he enjoyed it while it lasted and now he’s free to move on.
Meanwhile the woman is most likely in the midst of a pregnancy/recovering from a birth, has young children dependent on her and can’t work full hours.
Who needs the protection more when they get married?
I’m not talking emotionally, could be hard on anyone, I’m talking about why the chachamim mandated the husband to commit to the wife and not the other way around. Because if either is entering it just for fun, to see if it will last, a woman is much less likely to do that because there are more practical consequences for her…November 21, 2017 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm in reply to: The Five Thousand Dollar Dress #1408677
To be a wife. A woman risks losing much more when she gets married, and a man had only to gain. She’s the one who gets pregnant, she’s the one who is more vulnerable, and she needs her husband’s support and protection. Therefore, under every chuppah the husband had to obligate himself towards her in the kesuba, while she doesn’t write one for him, because she’s already giving him everything by marrying himNovember 21, 2017 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408671
So we’re up to number four and then I’m done for today will check back tomorrow and continue iyh:
The Mission Statement:
The Lubavitcher Rebbe, on the night he agreed to become Rebbe, (he had refused to be Rebbe an entire year since the Previous Rebbe was nistalek) which was yud shvat tof shin yud aleph, said over a fascinating Maamar. Now what’s a maamar? A sicha is a talk, usually on a topic of parsha, a Rambam, medrash or gemara. Interesting, inspiring, more on the lighter side (although you need a head to follow the shakla vtarya sichos).
A maamar is “Shechina medaberes mitoch grono shel Moshe” literally a revelation from Above, and the Rebbe who says it over has to hold onto something physical to keep his neshama from escaping his body (Our Rebbe would hold a handkerchief.) They are deeper concepts than sichos usually centered around achdus Hashem. There is a special tune chassidim sing before a maamar is said, and the Rebbe says it in a different tone than a sicha.
Only a Rebbe can say a maamar.
So the Rebbe said his first Maamar on the night he accepted the nesius and there he said many important things- he also revealed our generation’s mission.
He explained that we are the seventh generation since the Alter Rebbe, (counting generations by Rebbe), and as kol hashviin chavivin, even if we’re not worthy, and even if we don’t want to, we have a unique mission:
Just like the shechina was down in this world and then through the Chet etz hadaas it left this world and went up a heaven, and every subsequent big aveira, like kayin, the generation of enosh etc as enumerated in midrash, it went up another heaven until the shechina was removed all seven heavens from this Earth.
Then Avrahom avinu brought it down from the seventh heaven to the sixth, Yitzchak Avinu from the sixth to the fifth etc until the seventh, Moshe Rabbeinu was zoche to bring it back down to Earth by Matan Torah. Why him? Because he was seventh and sevens have a special zechus.
Unfortunately Chet haegel happened and it left shortly after etc.
And now, we are the seventh generation since the Alter Rebbe. Every generation has it’s Mission and the mission of our generation is to bring the shechina down! To bring Moshiach!November 21, 2017 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408657
Yes I will get to that iyhNovember 21, 2017 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408656
*neshama, not breakfast:)November 21, 2017 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408655
Concept number three: Moshiach shebador, bchezkas Moshiach, Moshiach vadai
Moshiach shebador means that in every generation there is an individual, (actually this individual is also the Moshe Rabbeinu of the dor) who, if the generation is worthy, will be revealed as Moshiach. Ie he has the potential to become Moshiach if that generation merits it, an if they do, he will merit the neshama of Moshiach.
Bchezkas Moshiach: this is straight up Rambam, hilchos melachim prakim 11-12 if I’m not mistaken. The Rambam defines who can be a candidate to be Moshiach, ie bchezkas Moshiach, ie if he fulfills the four criteria the Rambam states, then he is considered “Moshiach elect”
If he fulfills a further four conditions then we can be certain he is Moshiach, hence the term Moshiach vadai.
This is important to understand because a litvak will hear a lubavitcher mention Moshiach and automatically assume he means Moshiach vadai, when he could have just as easily meant Moshiach shebador or bchezkas Moshiach.November 21, 2017 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408647
The part that’s universal is that we all have a breakfast, which at it’s core, is one with HashemNovember 21, 2017 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm in reply to: The Five Thousand Dollar Dress #1408614
For the girls even more, you are the one who effects how much Parnassa is brought down from the spiritual to the physical for the whole family! On another note, once you get married you have a husband to support you and take care of you and buy you things you wouldn’t buy yourselfNovember 21, 2017 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408620
@gavriel613 I will aim to do both. I think most times this within is brought up, it is brought up as a baiting attack where the person isn’t really looking for an answer, that’s why I said I’ll only answer if I see there is some real interest, i.e. we open a new thread and people are willing to sit through the process.
I see the tzaddik has been digested, has the extension of Moshe Rabbeinu bit been understood? Haven’t heard any feedback on that yet, and as that is term 2, I will need that to be understood before I can move onNovember 21, 2017 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm in reply to: The Five Thousand Dollar Dress #1408572
I do because all financial brachos are in the merit of the wife, so if you get married and are a mentch of a husband, you have allot more money available to you:):)November 21, 2017 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm in reply to: Halachic principle of משפחה שנטמעה נטמעה #1408573
No, as far as I have learned it means a JEWISH who is illegitimate, for example a family of mamzerim who are not allowed to marry into bnei yisrael, and did, I’ve there mixed in, down the generations, they’re inNovember 21, 2017 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408544
@midwesterner as for your first question of yitzro gadol heimenu” I haven’t yet seen that addressed inside. My thoughts would be that it is addressing people who have not yet reached the level of tzaddik. As even a beinoni is a very lofty level. According to the Tanya definitions, if someone does only one aveira, it even doesn’t prevent someone else (if they were able) they are still classified as arasha vtov lo. If they have no regret at all, CVS, they’d be a rasha vra lo. A beinoni is a person who struggles inside but is always in control of themselves, and with the hello of Hashem, always makes the right decision. All we can get to with our own efforts is to a Beinoni. And that is probably what that maamar chazal is referring to. The level of tzaddik is a gift from Hashem, as we cannot control our feelings, only our thought, speech and action, and as it is a gift, he doesn’t need to contend with his yetzer anymore, as Dovid hamelech said, vlibi cholol bikirbi.November 21, 2017 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408540
@daas yochid @gaon I remember learning, Chet can mean chisaron, meaning for their level, more was expected of them, not that it was an actual aveira. As with Dovid hamelech, the gemara clearly testifies that he didn’t soon with Batsheva, but nevertheless, more was expected of him and he failed the test so to speak.
Glad there is input an feedback. When my two posts are completely clarified, I’ll be happy to move on.November 21, 2017 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408363
As there have so far been no questions on the first term- tzaddik, I’ll move on to the next one- the Zohar says, “Ispashtusa dMoshe bchol Dara vdara,” there is an extension of Moshe Rabbeinu in every generation.
Chassidus explains this in many places to mean that every generation has a tzaddik (see above) who is the Moshe Rabbeinu for that generation. Just like the original Moshe Rabbeinu, all the needs, physical and spiritual, come through this tzaddik.
There is another intertwined concept that all the neshamos are like a body. The neshamos not affected at all on their journey down to the world are the head and brain of klal Yisrael- our tzaddikim and leaders. The lowest neshamos, or the ones most affected by their journey, become the least spiritually in tune Jews- they have a hard time connecting to their neshama and connecting to Hashem. They are compared to the feet. Following this ever neshama has it’s place in the “body” of knesses yisrael, and just like the brain directs the body our leaders for. Just as the brain is the same essence as the father’s brain- the head neshamos are the ones most similar to Hashem’s Chochma.
And it is through these neshamos that everyone else gets their spiritual life force.
This and more is explained in perek beis of Tanya, the tzaddik concept is in perek aleph.
So far nothing controversial, this is like chassidus 101 and well known to I would think all lubavitchers. Any questions?November 21, 2017 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1408195
Great glad you took me up on it:) so in order to properly address this we need to understand some background knowledge so that we’re speaking the same language when I use a term. Feel free to ask on anything I say.
1) when Lubavitchers say “tzaddik”that are usually referring to tzaddik as is defined by Tanya. Namely, an individual who either has an inactive or drugged yetzer Hara (tzaddik vra lo) or no yetzer Hara at all (tzaddik vtov lo).
But regardless, a tzaddik has no personal struggles with badNovember 21, 2017 10:23 am at 10:23 am in reply to: Rebishe Kids #1407959
Agreed. But I funny think they’re putting in an act, I think that it just adds to the hard character etc. work they’re already doing but making it easier to make the right choices as it constantly reminds them who they are and what they represent. Not that I know that much about Rebishe children honestly, but that’s what would seem to make sense to meNovember 21, 2017 8:39 am at 8:39 am in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407926
As said I am happy to discuss all those kind of questions, but in a forum under it’s own topic and with people who are really interested to learn, and that can’t be accomplished in a one paragraph answer, where the readers are missing out on allot of the background concepts the writer is referring toNovember 21, 2017 7:57 am at 7:57 am in reply to: How to Treat Your Husband #1407921
A slave?! Wow I find that sad. So much depends on connotation and attitude. Who would you think the below definition applies to?
Slaves of the rest of the Jews who spend their days washing bloody floors, chopping up their meat, and offering their animals?
Yeah Kohanim. But no, so not Kohanim. Get my drift?