CS

And another really important thing we should all agree on I’d the importance of learning inyonei moshiach uGeula on a constant basis. Otherwise, how will we be excited to bring Moshiach and wrap our whole lives around this if we don’t even know what we’re working for? And on a continual basis to keep the chayus going. The Rebbe specifically asked us for this. Anyhow there is plenty to agree on in this vein… Lchaim.

@ sechel hayashar actually it reveals more about who I married…

Anyhow I don’t see why anyone has to hate anyone. We are having a very nice learned discussion here and not hating each other with the exception of like half a percent that you’ll find anywhere. As long as it’s based on Torah, there is nothing to hate we can just have different opinions and that’s just fine. It’s even a Torah value- Shivim panim lTorah, ain deioseihem shavos… So let’s just keep everything in the spirit of Ahavas Yisrael. I think that said more than anything else.

@ sechel hayashar ha I love this! Such hp! I’m in a different time zone, so trying to fall asleep and all of a sudden it hits me where those pshatim in Rambam are from! I learned it as part of the inyonei geula uMoshiach class in high school with guess who?

@avik going through the posts now I see why I didn’t address your question, because it looks like it’s meant lhachis, not a serious question at all. I’m sure if you’ve read this thread, you’d have your answer. I’m out to answer legitimate questions not people looking for a fight. Hope this clarifies

@WTP glad you get it and really all of this is predicated on you knowing about the Rebbe, learning a bit about who he is and represents. And maybe watching some of the my encounters with all types of Yidden talking about how the Rebbe inspired an affected them. Do you know R Baruch Ber cried when the Rebbe gently refused his offer to become his top talmid and the next leading gadol in the Litvishe world? So yeah if it was a regular person like you it me, I would say na I can’t believe that, there’s some personal agenda at hand. But knowing the Rebbe, and I know the Rebbe even though I was born three months before gimmel tammuz, I got my brachos to get married, go on shlichus etc. It’s a neshama connection. So knowing the Rebbe it makes sense. Otherwise, nothing makes sense

1. You actually didn’t answer the second part of my first question, about why the line of chabad davka were the conduits to bring down the shechiina but not other greats, but just nitpicked with me using the word avos not literally to mean all 7 of our great ancestors, and not just the 3 actual Avos. If I get what you are inferring though from your other answers, the chabad zaddik is in a class of his own, he is the only Moshe in the generation, everyone else is a lower madreiga, just as zekeinim were lower than Moshe, including other great rebbeim from other lineages, even those who lived in times when tzaddikim were more abundant than they are now, as you say. If this is in fact what you are saying, it sheds light on a lot of the issues raised in the previous (closed) thread.

Look WTP I’m with you. I also thought about that how it seems unfair that it’s all Lubavitch who were the Moshe Rabbeinu. If it was more spread out, I would be very happy.

But thinking about it now, referring back to the visit the Baal Shem Tov made to Moshiachs heichal in shomayim, in tof kuf zayin, was that fair? All Yidden serve Hashem, why should chassidus be singled out as the wellsprings through which being spread will bring Moshiach. The Gra was an extremely holy Gaon. How come it’s not his teachings?

But if you think about it, it’s the same question that comes up across the board: why are the Jewish people the chosen people? Especially as some of them are real rotten? Why are some Yidden Kohanim and get special privileges?

An it’s the same answer. No we’re not better than anyone else. But this is the path that Hashem has chosen for all Yidden to serve Him with- through learning chassidus and becoming one with our neshama, our fellow Jews and our creator, and revealing the G-dly depths within every physical thing. For Hashem did not create all the worlds for the sake of spirituality, but rather so that this physical world, which seems the farthest anyone can get from Him, should discover Him within their realm. This understanding and application is the treasure chassidus gives us. And since this is the point of creation, to quote the medrash famous within Lubavitch: “Nisave Hkbh liyos Lo Yisbarech dira Btachtonim.” The point is this world, not olam haba. Because otherwise as explained in Tanya chapter 37 I believe, it would have been better for all the higher worlds not to have been created. For if the point is spirituality, what can be more spiritual than being One with Hashem?

So no, Chabad tzaddikim are not better than any other tzaddik just as Moshe Rabbeinu wasn’t greater than Aharon his brother. He was just the one picked by Hashem to lead the Yidden with his path. And so too, Hashem sent down to this world an entirely new neshama from the era of Moshiachs times that had never come before to this world in any other gilgul, to reveal the treasures of pnimiyus haTorah. This special soul was embodied by the Alter Rebbe, the founder of Chassidus Chabad.

So if chassidus is the path through which to bring Moshiach, it logically follows that the successive Rebbeim who followed that path would be to Moshe shebidoram.

2. We say “Moshe kibel Torah M’Sinai., Umesora l’Yehosua, VYehoshua L’Zekeinim ,etc.” The idea that the leadership on one person was unique to the dor that received the Torah, and then next, as Yehoshua was an extension of Moshe. But after that, it was always a group of Rabbanim/chachamim/Neviim who channeled Torah to the people. There was not one great leader. How do you reconcile this with the Nasi/Moshe B’Doro concept?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but there was always an Av beis din, or Nassi or similar office which played the role of Moshe Rabbeinu.

3. You state that chabadnikim could not choose a new Rebbe because they could not find a good enough tzaddik. But based on what you said, all they need is a beinoni, who strives and hates sin, and then Hashem will gift him with the traits of being a tzaddik so that he can lead the flock. Was there no one like this in all of chabad, all striving in Avodas Hashem along the systematic understandable path that only chabad provides?

Firstly I hope you understand what a beinoni is. Most people try to have beinoni moments as explained in perek yud daled of Tanya. Someone who does one aveira in fifty years is a rasha vtov lo. There are hundreds of levels within rasha vtov lo, depending on how much of his yetzer overrides his nefesh elokis (when he gives in to it). So it is a very high level to be a beinoni to put it lightly. There are some suspected beinonim within Lubavitch afaik. Obviously the only one who would really know that is Hashem and maybe the person themselves.

But as said, the level of tzaddik is a gift given to those who have sees are really trying to not only be a beinoni but also copy tzaddik behaviors, such as truly despising bad. And as it is a gift He decides when to who and if He gives it.

And in the meantime, no we do not know of a tzaddik within Lubavitch right now.

Of course. So why does such a high percentage of Chabad believe he is moshiach (with the prime disagreement being whether to be public about it – perhaps it’s not “Bkeilim dtikkun- in ways that are acceptable within this world”)?

@daasyochid you really get it.

I think if Chabad would place more of a focus on regular learning (the lack of which is lamented by many old time Lubavichers), they wouldn’t twist things to fit their emotional agenda

Fake news as they say nowadays.

Please use quotes or italics when quoting other posts. Thanks

@5ish I’m trying to answer the questions in order, and I don’t recall skipping yours. Can you either repost, or wait until there are no more questions and I’ll scroll through all until I find yours?

“Who told you that ‘וילחם מלחמת ה means sending out shluchim and being mekarev Yidden? Is that the pshat in the rambam? Please read the Rambam again, with an intellectually honest outlook, and you’ll see that the Rebbe wasn’t Chezkas Moshiach.”

If I’m not mistaken there may be a sicha on it, I definitely learned that somewhere but I don’t remember the exact source unfortunately, and I would think that it it is a sicha you would have come across it. Look, when you read it it reads wars, but notice the Rambam doesn’t use a lashon like milchamos haumos, milchemes got umagog or what have you, he specifically said milchemes Hashem, and as all mefarshim, geonim etc through the Taz and Bach wrote their peirushim with ruach hakodesh, I could definitely see how this could refer to a spiritual was for Hashem. Being that you’ve seen the Rebbe express this many times when explaining the exact words Rashi chose, I’m not sure why this would surprise you?

“FYI, I’m a regular Lubavitcher, I do Chitas and Rambam, and I go on Mivtzoim every Friday…”

Lol this cracked me up. I don’t have any doubts on your chassidishkeit, your understanding of a Rambam has nothing to do with your chassidishkeit so really I’m sort of honored you feel the need to excuse yourself, but no need at all!

Is that the only reason the last Rebbe has no successor? Or did the Rebbe also indicate he’s Moshiach?

Yes Joseph you got my intent- ie that’s the other reason. As an aside I once asked a teacher in high school- why must the Rebbe still be there Nassi Hador and thus the Moshiach shebador? Maybe there’s a new Nassi Hador out there, not in the world of Lubavitch? She answered that by the first Maamar the Rebbe said that this is for shvii and our task is to bring Moshiach. Until we do that we’re still dor shvii with the Rebbe as our leader.

“So in nun aleph, nun beis, when this Moshiach excitement was going on, along with the hints, every chossid, from what I hear, expected the Rebbe to reveal himself as Moshiach and lead all Yidden to eretz Yisrael.”

What Moshiach excitement was going on then more than before? And why’d his Chasidim all suddenly about then expect him to announce that he’s Moshiach?

Because the Rebbe was saying Oirois dTohu kind of things like look Moshiach is already here, we just need to open up our eyes.

And much more things like that, week after week. I would quote more but since it’s not your typical statement, I won’t say things unless it’s exactly what he said. You’re welcome to look it up on Hebrew books.org under Sefer hasichos 5751 and 5752.

But as the Rebbe himself instructed it was always bkeilim dtikkun. The Rebbe would never stand up and yell some wild crazy sounding line. There was always a very logical context to his very revolutionary ideas- usually within the context of advar Torah on the parsha.

What about the Besht or the Maggid or the Baal HaTanya? Their influence is gone or less than the last Rebbe so they can all be referred to as having passed on, unlike the last Rebbe?

The next Rebbe carried on their legacy and they all carried and passed down the neshama of Moshe Rabbeinu. As the Rebbe once referred to the Previous Rebbe by saying, nishmaso bi.

@avik there are four conditions to qualify as chezkas Moshiach as per the Rambam:
1) descended from beis Dovid (the Rebbe was)
2) well versed in Torah and toiling in mitzvos like Dovid his father
3) compels all Yisrael to go in the ways of Torah and strengthens it’s breaches
3) fights the wars of Hashem

Then we may with assurance, consider him Moshiach.
If he:
1) succeeds in all the above
2) builds the bhmk
3) does kibutz golios
Then he is indeed Moshiach and then he will get the entire world to serve Hashem together.

The Rebbe definitely fulfilled the first four: he started the momentous baal teshuva movement as waged the wars of Hashem against assimilation the continuation of which is ongoing by his over 5000 shluchim. And all it takes to qualify is sincere effort, not complete success as that is the first of the conditions for Moshiach vadai

Most chassidim though do not think the Rebbe is gone because his influence strongly lives and inspires and motivates us till today. So we won’t refer to the Rebbe as having passed on etc. And this is the definition given in the gemara for Yaakov Avinu when it says Yaakov Avinu love mes. “Ma zaro bachayim, af hu bachayim” as long as we continue the Rebbe’s work, especially the shluchim, the Rebbe lives with us. We are the Rebbe’s hands and feet. And we will keep going until our work, together with the rest of klal Yisrael- brings the geula as the Rebbe wanted so badly

Continued:

So in nun aleph, nun beis, when this Moshiach excitement was going on, along with the hints, every chossid, from what I hear, expected the Rebbe to reveal himself as Moshiach and lead all Yidden to eretz Yisrael.

Halfway through nun beis- 1992, the Rebbe had a stroke. After the stroke, the chassidim thought this must be an obstacle we must go through before Moshiach is revealed, so they kept up their belief and hope in the Rebbe’s words. They also would quite often burst into the song of Yechi, addressing the Rebbe as Moshiach and the Rebbe would nod his head encouraging the song. Up until gimmel tammuz, nun daled -94, no one would dare even say that maybe the Rebbe won’t get better…

Until one day. Gimmel tammuz hit us. And there was no sicha of the Rebbe to explain what happened. (Some chassidim see a sicha said on gimmel tammuz years earlier to address this situation.)

Here for the first time there was a split.

Some chassidim said Look things didn’t work out according to plan, so that’s it. The games up and the Rebbe was nistalek and there must be some explanation for this but that’s it, we’re orphaned from our Rebbe and we’ll try to live by his teachings and continue in his party and keep his memory alive. These people will speak of the Rebbe in past tense etc.

@gaon thanks that’s interesting! And ties into further concepts as well… But I think it’s time to move on:)

@Joseph as soon as I can while giving a thorough understanding. Unfortunately, I as am sure everyone here, cannot monitor the CR constantly to reply the minute a question is asked. I’m doing my best and definitely not procrastinating. After I address WTP questions, excellent questions if I may say so myself, I will gladly continue.

Although I see how you can draw that conclusion (because the Rebbe had just said that the Lubavitcher Rebbe of each generation was the Nossi Hador aka Moshe Rabbeinu of the generation, and the Nossi hador is the Moshiach shebador) I don’t think any of the chassidim too it that way. There were me 100 people in the room, people who had escaped the Holocaust and Soviet Russia, and it seemed so unrealistic (from what I’ve heard.) This was in 1950.

Like right, we’re supposed to bring Moshiach? Us broken survivors? Here in America? Like how exactly…

@lilmod olilameid
I’m not telling lofty I’m saying very practical. Let’s say the marriage fails CVS. The man walks out, healthy strong, and now he’s single with no family to support. He’s not lifting, he enjoyed it while it lasted and now he’s free to move on.
Meanwhile the woman is most likely in the midst of a pregnancy/recovering from a birth, has young children dependent on her and can’t work full hours.

Who needs the protection more when they get married?

I’m not talking emotionally, could be hard on anyone, I’m talking about why the chachamim mandated the husband to commit to the wife and not the other way around. Because if either is entering it just for fun, to see if it will last, a woman is much less likely to do that because there are more practical consequences for her…

So we’re up to number four and then I’m done for today will check back tomorrow and continue iyh:

The Mission Statement:
The Lubavitcher Rebbe, on the night he agreed to become Rebbe, (he had refused to be Rebbe an entire year since the Previous Rebbe was nistalek) which was yud shvat tof shin yud aleph, said over a fascinating Maamar. Now what’s a maamar? A sicha is a talk, usually on a topic of parsha, a Rambam, medrash or gemara. Interesting, inspiring, more on the lighter side (although you need a head to follow the shakla vtarya sichos).

A maamar is “Shechina medaberes mitoch grono shel Moshe” literally a revelation from Above, and the Rebbe who says it over has to hold onto something physical to keep his neshama from escaping his body (Our Rebbe would hold a handkerchief.) They are deeper concepts than sichos usually centered around achdus Hashem. There is a special tune chassidim sing before a maamar is said, and the Rebbe says it in a different tone than a sicha.
Only a Rebbe can say a maamar.

So the Rebbe said his first Maamar on the night he accepted the nesius and there he said many important things- he also revealed our generation’s mission.

He explained that we are the seventh generation since the Alter Rebbe, (counting generations by Rebbe), and as kol hashviin chavivin, even if we’re not worthy, and even if we don’t want to, we have a unique mission:

Just like the shechina was down in this world and then through the Chet etz hadaas it left this world and went up a heaven, and every subsequent big aveira, like kayin, the generation of enosh etc as enumerated in midrash, it went up another heaven until the shechina was removed all seven heavens from this Earth.

Then Avrahom avinu brought it down from the seventh heaven to the sixth, Yitzchak Avinu from the sixth to the fifth etc until the seventh, Moshe Rabbeinu was zoche to bring it back down to Earth by Matan Torah. Why him? Because he was seventh and sevens have a special zechus.

Unfortunately Chet haegel happened and it left shortly after etc.

And now, we are the seventh generation since the Alter Rebbe. Every generation has it’s Mission and the mission of our generation is to bring the shechina down! To bring Moshiach!

*neshama, not breakfast:)

The part that’s universal is that we all have a breakfast, which at it’s core, is one with Hashem

@gavriel613 I will aim to do both. I think most times this within is brought up, it is brought up as a baiting attack where the person isn’t really looking for an answer, that’s why I said I’ll only answer if I see there is some real interest, i.e. we open a new thread and people are willing to sit through the process.

I see the tzaddik has been digested, has the extension of Moshe Rabbeinu bit been understood? Haven’t heard any feedback on that yet, and as that is term 2, I will need that to be understood before I can move on

No, as far as I have learned it means a JEWISH who is illegitimate, for example a family of mamzerim who are not allowed to marry into bnei yisrael, and did, I’ve there mixed in, down the generations, they’re in

@daas yochid @gaon I remember learning, Chet can mean chisaron, meaning for their level, more was expected of them, not that it was an actual aveira. As with Dovid hamelech, the gemara clearly testifies that he didn’t soon with Batsheva, but nevertheless, more was expected of him and he failed the test so to speak.

Glad there is input an feedback. When my two posts are completely clarified, I’ll be happy to move on.

Great glad you took me up on it:) so in order to properly address this we need to understand some background knowledge so that we’re speaking the same language when I use a term. Feel free to ask on anything I say.

1) when Lubavitchers say “tzaddik”that are usually referring to tzaddik as is defined by Tanya. Namely, an individual who either has an inactive or drugged yetzer Hara (tzaddik vra lo) or no yetzer Hara at all (tzaddik vtov lo).

But regardless, a tzaddik has no personal struggles with bad

@daasyochid

As said I am happy to discuss all those kind of questions, but in a forum under it’s own topic and with people who are really interested to learn, and that can’t be accomplished in a one paragraph answer, where the readers are missing out on allot of the background concepts the writer is referring to