CS
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CSParticipant
“When Yaakov donned Eisav’s clothing, he did not become a rasha.”
True but chassidus teaches that it was the clothing of Esav that allowed Yaakov Ish Tam to act in a slightly deceptive manner. Clothes do not make a man but they definitely impact him.
Actors find themselves able to put on their act easier when they’re wearing their costumes
CSParticipantI have a neighbor who I could see this working for. Personally my husband and I wouldn’t take that approach because in a sensitive topic, you have to be very careful with how you say things or you are less likely to be effective and more likely to be lashed out at.
In this case, the attitude I feel coming across is I am perfect and you need to work on yourself and I’m willing to pay you for it. See how generous I am?
I think this is usually wrong and that’s why I’d find it offensive. As has been brought up before, usually people marry a spouse with a compatible level of yiddishkeit, so if he found her less than tzniusdik look attractive, then he is part of the problem and shouldn’t be playing tzaddik now.
What would be taken much better by me, would be something like, “Chanale, I know when we got married, this is how you dressed and I was fine with that. However, you’ve helped me grow so much that now, your way of dress bothers me. I know it would be hard for you to change so can we make a deal? I will stop watching movies/non Jewish entertainment, or some other comparable kabbala, and you will go shopping, and buy a new tzniusdik wardrobe?
Here I would feel motivated because a) we are in this together and if it gets hard for me, I know he is working hard as well.
B) he is not making himself look good at my expense.
C) I get the zechus of helping him improve as well.
Disclaimer 1: I dress tzniusdik and my husband doesn’t watch movies or sports
Disclaimer 2: HaRav Miller said you have to know who you are talking to so I am not in any way negating what he said, as this is included within that, I am simply giving another approach/example.
November 20, 2017 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407726CSParticipant@nevillechaimberlin
1) I’m surprised to hear you think you cannot use a Chabad mikva unless in extreme situations maybe, do you know of any halachic basis for that? Because like I said and explained, this prototype avoids problems found with the other ones without putting any new ones.2) I appreciate your support as I don’t want to be misunderstood, and I think that if I was super arrogant etc. Then I wouldn’t comment on this forum. My family and my in laws family has many friends in Satmar, and I grew up for a time in Postville where there was a wonderful Geula-like mix of all types of frum Yidden together.
That being said, I’m somewhat of an intellectual and enjoy discussion, so no, I was not pushed over the edge- I merely just don’t want to be misunderstood- but very much enjoy the discussion.
Also totally don’t get the non Ahavas yisroel part- please let me know where you think I failed in that? Because you’re 100% right, Ahavas Yisrael is the basis of everything, as Rabbi Akiva said- ze klal gadol baTorah.
Joseph- you have valid questions and I would love to address them. I’m afraid my time is up for today, and anyway we have gone way off topic from the original OP.
So if you really would like a deep discussion on that with sources etc, maybe open a new one and I’ll check back tomorrow or whenever I can:)
November 20, 2017 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407670CSParticipantI’m pretty sure a shliach will only settle in a place that has enough Jews to sustain his family. That’s policy. Now you don’t see them all in shul (at least in the beginning) because some of them don’t even know what shul is. Like both my parents never heard of Yom Kippur before they met a shliach.
Many shluchim start off with enough money to last a year, either savings, or now I think there may be grants available. After that they need to fundraise locally. So many shluchim don’t start off renting- they’ll give classes from their house and house the shul there as well. As time goes on and more people hopefully get involved and support their activities, they’ll expand, and keep on expanding with Hashem s help.
@Syag lachochma- I’m sorry if I struck a personal nerve. I should clarify that many of my own friends yell at me that there should not be any such thing as family consideration aka gezhe/ffb vs bt background in shidduchim, and many of the gezhe people believe so as well. Personally it makes sense to me but I should clarify that that’s my personal opinion.
For example the shluchim who mkareved my own father, and are well known and respected throughout the chareidi world, the husband is from a very gezhe family of chassidim from the chassidishe town of nevel, while the wife is herself a baalas tshuva who became one with her on when she was 12 years old.
November 20, 2017 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407682CSParticipantI should mention I did take part in a WhatsApp group that studied the chofetz chaim, I’ve read oz vhadar levusha by R Falk, and when I learn Chumash I learn general mefarshim, and obviously with any part of nigle I study. I was just trying to explain why some chabad people seem clueless- like I heard of R’ Elyashiv for the first time in eleventh grade- anyhow not trying to repeat everything all over… Just saying it’s not intentional like we don’t learn that, it’s just we have so much Lubavitch in our lives. Maybe this is comparable to a Lakewood person not knowing all the chiddushim and positions of R Ovadiah Yosef?
November 20, 2017 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407662CSParticipant*Tof kuf zayin
November 20, 2017 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407657CSParticipantHonestly I love my parents and they to me them proud and I don’t think this is an insult. They themselves are baalei teshuva, but they would prefer their kids don’t marry baalei teshuva, but ffb. And it’s obviously not because anything is won’t with baalei teshuva, it’s just about compatibility. Baalei teshuva usually click with other baalei who can understand their past, identify with their struggles, chuckle appreciatively when they mention a TV show they’ve seen… All things that I would not be able to do. But it doesn’t mean gezhe people are greater than baalei teshuva, only Hashem knows, but in general, bmakom shebaalei teshuva omdim tzaddikim gemurim ainom yecholim laamod, because they turned their whole lives around for Hashem, usually against all odds, and have to second guess every decision they make… It’s definitely not easy and I’m very proud of my parents and hope they are just as proud of me
November 20, 2017 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1406814CSParticipantYeah it’s very sad when the yetzer hara gets in the way. My teacher showed us a handwritten note of the Rebbe when I was in high school, that said (in yiddish) “The yetzer hara saw that Moshiach is almost here so he laid himself across the threshold of the doorway, and sought to create machlokes… And rachmona litzlan he succeeded.”
Although interesting you mention the small breakaway kinus because just this year, I saw a video going around on WhatsApp that looks like the main speaker was calling for an end to this foolishness and that chassidim should all learn the sichos (talks) of the Rebbe together, and work together to discuss the best way to implement it.
November 20, 2017 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407653CSParticipantWow I’m sorry to have offended you. I can only speak for myself and try to be in line with what the Rebbe would have said, and I’m not perfect and I’m glad you seem to have the expectation that all lubavitchers since be angels, but unfortunately, we are very human, and of course there will be some arrogant people or whatever other chesronios. But we also, as all of us here, have many more maalos:) All I’m trying to say is that people need to learn what speaks to their neshama and inspires then to serve Hashem. For me, that’s chassidus, and I can’t get enough of it because there are at least hundreds of volumes of chabad chassidus. When I learn chassidus, I feel how it changes my world view and avodas Hashem for the better. That’s why I don’t focus on any other mussar- etc. Because I have my hands full as I said. If learning sifrei mussar does that for you, then that’s great.
I do still feel that everyone should learn chassidus but that’s not because I think it’s the only thing with value. Chas vsholom! Any Torah refines a person. Just we learn the conversation between the Baal Shem tov and Moshiach, on Rosh Hashana kuf chof zayin I believe, since we’re every young, and based on Moshiachs answer to the Baal Shem tov s question of Aimosai kosi Mar? When will the Master come? Moshiach answered “Lichsheyofutzu maayenosecha chutza” when your wellsprings (of chassidus) will spread out.” So the Rebbeim have taught us that it is imperative for us to spread chassidus everywhere. But chas vsholom to suggest that anything else is not Torah.
November 20, 2017 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407636CSParticipantAs long as it’s kosher, it’s kosher, so of course we can be yotze. The reason we prefer using a Lubavitch mikva is because of the hiddurim involved which basically make it that a woman toivels within the bor itself. This is accomplished by it being built bor Al gabei bor, and the bottom one is cold, and 80 seah, so no chashash of the original 40 being whittled to less than the shiur. Also the water filled in on top is hot, while the bottom is cold, so that avoids mixing.
This avoids many problematic issues involved with other kosher mikvaos such as the one that’s next to the bor with a hole in between, kept apart with a plug- let’s say the mikva lady forgets to remove the plug CVS, then the woman didn’t toivel in a mikvah because it wasn’t connected to the bor… There are other issues with the other prototypes, and this model was developed to avoid all issues
November 20, 2017 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407618CSParticipantThank you for alerting me to the fact that you changed a word of me, and kindly explaining why. I specifically used that word because I am ready to discuss it, an I don’t think a lack of knowledge of passages of the Zohar and gemara that are famous within the Lubavitch world should lead to achashash apikorsus chas vsholom. All the same, I appreciate that maybe now is not the time to discuss everything, but maybe in the future you can call me out on any statement I make instead of deleting it? Otherwise how do we learn?
November 20, 2017 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1406955CSParticipantSure. As mentioned, I think, gezhe refers to Chabad chassidim who are part of a family chain (geza) of chassidim going way back. Usually used in comparison with terms of ffb, bt, yichus.
All Chabad children go to the same schools, seminaries, yeshivos etc, and can go on shlichus, depending on how badly they want to go, without distinction. The only time it really comes up is with shidduchim, and that is fair.
There is an advantage to families being compatible, if I would’ve married into a gezhe family, I wouldn’t feel my parents are on equal footing with my supposed in laws and that can get awkward.
My parents are amazing incredible people who turned their whole lives around to because frum and that is their advantage because they passed over to me the conviction that yiddishkeit is the best thing out there and the goyishe world is so empty, it has nothing substantial to offer me.
Otoh, I can’t compare their aidelkeit to the aidelkeit of a gezhe family…
There is also a difference in upbringing: gezhe people mainly raise their kids to toe the line of their ancestors, whereas BTs focus on rebelling against or revolutionizing the secular world…
But many gezhe people are open to their kids dating bts kids, just the bt background is understandably not seen as a plus in family compatibility.
As far as other differences, no unique minhagim other than family minhagim like what they can eat on pesach.
Hope this clarifies
November 20, 2017 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1406850CSParticipantHonestly, Chabad encompasses all kinds of people on all kinds of levels, because of who the Rebbe was. The lack of familiarity of other leaders within klal yisrael, for the most part, is not because we like to segregate ourselves, it’s just that there is so much going on within Lubavitch that we have our heads full keeping up with that.
For example, I would probably never quote R’ Elyashiv, not because I don’t think he’s great, I’m sure he is, and I know he’s a major figure in the litvishe world, but I’m still trying to keep up with saying my daily Chitas (portions of Chumash Tehillim and Tanya) and learning a sicha and or maamar of the Rebbe several times a week, which doesn’t leave me time to look into other things.
I feel chassidus empowers my avodas Hashem and I can’t get enough of it. I should add I have two young kids to look after so it makes for enough to fill up my time:) or even more, my concentration.
edited to prevent chashash apikorsus
November 20, 2017 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1406729CSParticipantHi, I decided syaglachochma is right and happy to take any questions. I’ve been following this forum for a bit, must say Joseph’s comments are mostly entertaining:) anyhow, happy to answer any questions. Both my parents are BTs and I’m married, on (chinuch) shlichus. Happy to join as love interacting with the greater chareidi world.
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