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Hakatan, see ???”? ????? ?’ ?.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/rambam.aspx?sefer=14&hilchos=83&perek=5&halocha=10&hilite=
Im sure we don’t have 12 percent annual population growth.
Triannual, popa. There isn’t merely a one year gap.
Do you mean physical Lakewood or Lakewood type yeshivish?
please explain to me , im being honest dont you think the crisis is based on money?
No. In some cases it might manifest itself in bias against poor families, but the imbalance in numbers is a huge issue.
boys vs girls
What, it’s a competition?
Movement? Do you really think more girls go OTD than boys, or more boys become BT? Come on.
A bochur goes to a girl’s house to meet her for the first time. It’s his first time going out, and he’s very nervous. The father sits him down, and puts him through the ringer. He grills him in hashkafah, halachah, the sugya he learned three months ago, how he would treat his wife, etc, with the boy made to feel very uncomfortable the whole time. Finally, the girl’s father asks him, “so, what kind of girl are you looking for?”.
Answers the boy, “a yesomah”.
The roshei yeshiva agreed that it is hard for girls to find guys they want to date who are willing to date them.
Please.
I also agree. Nobody could possibly disagree.
Why? Do you have a study?
DaasYochid – Does this mean you agree on the L’maase?
D’haynu?
Also, as far as Tzahal – Really?
Really. It so happens, in the case I have first hand knowledge of (I don’t live in E.Y., so I’m not aware of many cases first hand), he didn’t end up going. Either way, it wouldn’t be something to showcase, it would be a decision best for that individual based on his particular circumstances.
Same as I think in shidduchim, that there might need to be a default, but each yochid should do what’s best for him/her.
Are you aware of any Rosh Yeshiva who told their star (or even top 20) talmid to get married early because of the Kol Korei?
No, but lo shamati aino raya. As I’ve said, for multiple reasons I wouldn’t expect it, and especially now before any changes in structure have been implemented.
First popa has to stop being mazik the nashim.
BTW, AZ has posted where NASI got info from. I don’t know if there are any updates; as AZ would say, you can email the NASI project and they’ll respond.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/is-there-a-shidduch-crisis/page/2?0#post-109917
That depends what info you’re looking for. If you’re looking for alternate side suspensions, you’re right. If you’re looking for population growth info, it’s pretty good.
A million dollars for solutions but not one cent for figuring out the problem.
Because they already know what the problem is, and a primary cause.
Did they try? Did they hire consultants to figure it out? Did they try for a second best solution? How about pick 30 yeshivish boys schools and 30 yeshivish girls schools from the elementary school classes graduating in the 90’s and track them? That wouldn’t control for unequal numbers coming in, but would get us some info at least.
How about take one quick look at how many new schools/classes open every year in Lakewood, and realize that you have your answer right there.
I don’t hope so. I don’t think there should be a school curriculum on what marriage is.
I’m with popa on this one. Best is by example, supplemented by vaadin or one on one sessions of shidduch involved bochurim with rebbeim.
Gamanit, only if the sefer Torah is open.
He is telling us that the roshei yeshiva clearly understand the issues and told him that it is naarishkeiten until someone brings forward some real data.
Have you gotten a chance to read his original article yet? (You originally criticized it without reading it, so it’s a fair question.) In it, he agrees to age gap theory. So, if he says that the roshei yeshiva understand the issues, he means that they agree to age gap. Unless you’re also accusing him of lying, in which case I can’t understand why you would be so proud to be a member of the same klal Yisroel as him.
J’accuse popa of tying half of his brain behind his back (and not using much of the other half).
Really? Hiding data? (from your other asinine post)
Why would the people at NASI spend hours of unpaid time to propogate a fraud? It makes no sense.
I won’t even get into how obviously right they are, which you have acknowledged several times in the past (I can’t fathom your backtracking).
Why no study? 1) Nobody who is willing to pay thinks it’s necessary 2) Too hard to get a precise number, especially since it’s hard to precisely define what is the yeshivish community that this affects.
As to “chiba”, this means a fondness, not ahava, but it’s irrelevant anyways.
What’s irrelevant is your nitpicking of semantics.
Do you really not think that we shouldn’t cultivate in ourselves and our children the values which Chaza”l saw fit to share with us?
Hakatan, we agree that chibas haaretz has been twisted by some, but you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Popa, again, from RSYR:
Every one of them clearly understands the issues
and:
Understandably, they have many considerations and concerns regarding their bochurim that they must strongly factor in any decision.
but no one has ever been told “go”.
This is not true.
The results of a solution would be even worse (L’shitasam)
I disagree. I don’t think they are weighing the positive impact on the klal vs. the negative impact on the klal. I just think that they don’t feel that they should advise someone to do something which is not necessarily in that person’s best interest.
There’s a big difference; you are making it sound as if the imbalance is a positive side effect, while I am saying that it is a negative one.
To quote R’ Shlomo Yehuda Rechnitz:
DY: I haven’t learned L’ma’aseh of any of this, but does Mechilah even work? Don’t we usually Pasken like R’ Meir…
There’s still a kesubah in it’s full form here, just she’s mochel on the day to day fulfillment of his shibudim, and can at any time insist that he begins fulfilling them.
If you Google just “rabbi” you’ll get even more hits. 🙂
Try googling “rabbi asher anshiel katz”.
Nu, popa, did it say it was good or no good?
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Dr Barry shlita, what more can you do from the app?
That is not the same.
It doesn’t have to be, but it can be.
When are you calling for the Moetzes (which is supposed to have the Klal’s interests in mind, not the Yechidim, unless you disagree?) to be run by Rabbonim instead of Roshei Yeshiva?
Of course the Moetzes is for the klal, and in their roles as Moetzes members, this is their focus. As roshei yeshiva, their focus needs to be on the yeshiva, and as rebbeim, on their talmidim. They often have roles as husbands and fathers as well. Sometimes there can be a conflict of interest between their various roles, and they have to do their best to figure out what the ratzon H’ is. Rabbonim also have conflicting interests, so I don’t see a huge benefit. We trust and hope that whichever RY or rabbonim we turn to will try to keep negius out of it.
Popa, yes, sometimes different approaches for different roles. Has a rosh yeshiva ever given you advice for yourself which is different than the overall approach in yeshiva? It’s happened to me, and I know of incidents with others as well.
Not the sort of people that you want leading Klal Yisroel.
Farkert, someone who would manipulate my son to marry someone who’s not best for him, or before he’s ready, is not someone I necessarily want as his rebbe.
Besides, being a rosh hayeshiva is mechayev you to your talmidim, but who says it makes you a leader of klal Yisroel?
making sure that there are girls for those many individuals to marry
What?
As I said, the freezer is not about manipulation, nor does it have a major effect.
Semantics. It is like the old joke that someone loves getting the flu, it is just way down on the list of things that he loves.
The reason why that’s a joke rather than the truth is because liking less is entirely different than disliking. It’s not merely semantics at all.
but they did manipulate they system (as you point out one way
How did I say they manipulate the system? I think they deal with individuals, and maybe make policies for their yeshivos in the best interest of their yeshivos, but I don’t think they manipulate the klal.
So you agree with me, but put a nicer spin on it. Yasher Koach.
Absolutely not. There’s a world of difference between saying they don’t really care (motzi shem ra, IMO), and saying they care deeply, but either have other priorities, or don’t “control” bochurim the way you, pba, and others seem to think they do.
As I have said before, if they really cared, they could extend the freezer by a year except for girls older than the boy. Not only would that solve the “crisis”, but it would also help those who are “older” (let’s say 26+), for whom no one seems to have any ideas.
The freezer is controversial enough without extending it further. Its purpose was never to manipulate bochurim into marrying differently; it was, and is, to allow them to settle into a good learning routine before the distraction of shidduchim comes up.
Also, it wouldn’t do much for 26+.
What I’m saying us in no way a contradiction to the Shelah’s tefillah.
Squeak, I am offended by your attempts to pass double strollers on the sidewalk. (Sorry, I just needed to vent.)
I don’t find shidduch crisis discussions offensive. Just making an observation.
I know, I was kidding, observing that your comment wasn’t on the list either. 🙂
we all need a little venting time, no?
I dont like when people take out their frustrations, even justified ones, on the innocent. Is it okay if I vent about that?
Do you find discussion of the shidduchim crisis offensive?
I find it hard to believe that Rav Rechnitz did not do a survey of the type you describe. In Los Angeles, the community is small enough that I think you could do this survey just by looking at graduation pictures and asking the local Yentas what happened to this one, what happened to that one, etc.
You can’t bring a raya from oot to the overall numbers. A disproportionate number of bochurim are on the east coast, specifically tri-state area, and all else being equal (on “paper”) would prefer not to travel to meet a girl.
If I’m not mistaken, RebYidd’s point is that if you try hard enough, you can be offended by any term.
Hodulashem, there’s plenty of reason for people who have been seeking their zivug for a long time (is that phrase pc enough?) to be frustrated, but I don’t think it makes sense to express that understandable frustration in terms of being offended by innocent terminology.
I believe that R’ Rechnitz was very accurate in using the term “older singles” for 23 year old girls in the context he was discussing.
He was discussing taking extraordinary measures to help them get married, and since many (probably most) boys don’t want to go out with girls older than themselves, and boys start at 22-23, it becomes much more challenging to find shidduchim for girls at 23. The term was in no way being used objectively.
Oh, come on Sam, just because popa decided without reading the thread that we’re probably all apikorsim doesn’t make it so.
Popa, I don’t think you’re an apikores.
I don’t believe anyone is an older single before they are 30.
At 29, they’re older than 28. It’s about context, as squeak said, and in the context used, there’s nothing offensive.
I find it very difficult to believe that BMG roshei yeshiva prefer girls to remain unmarried
Of course not. Gavra is much too cynical. What is conceivable, though, is that they feel that the current norm of 23 is the best typical age from the bochurim’s perspective, and that it’s not their jobs to encourage them to do something against their best interests.
Well, how was he supposed to know without Google?
Do you say “sheyischallahpenyu soneinu”?
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/hashgacha-pratis-2
The Shidduch Crisis, it is claimed, affects girls more than boys – i.e. there are many more frum unmarried girls than there are frum unmarried boys
Therein lies your mistake, right in the first sentence. There aren’t more frum unmarried girls than frum unmarried boys. This is not what R’ Rechnitz et al are claiming.
We are claiming that there are more frum unmarried girls
looking to get married than frum unmarried boys looking to get married.
What R’ Rechnitz is trying to do (among other things) is try to even the number of frum unmarried boys looking to get married with the number of frum unmarried girls looking to get married. In your example, instead of 20 frum unmarried boys looking to get married and 40 frum unmarried girls looking to get married left over after 100 chasunos, there would be 20 of each (or 40 of each if you wish) so that they can marry each other in the coming years.
That’s right.
Happily Ignorant Playfully Produced Acronym
42, Hillaryous!
Mazel Tov, Nechomah!
I know way more American singles than English ones.
there are way more americans than british
Which just proves that the cause is population growth.