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BTW, is there s’micha in Hilchos Lashon Hora?
I do not understand why you refuse to post the reasoning.
Agreed. Frankly, it invites skepticism that there was such a psak for this situation.
No, it sounds like she’s afraid she will waste too much time and mental energy on it, which as far as I’m concerned is a ruchniyus issue.
Maybe, though, an Android emulator would do the trick.
LB, Meno, et al, you seem to focusing on the SMS issue, which undoubtedly is solvable without a smartphone, but she said her company log in security requires an app, and unless there’s a desktop version of that app (unlikely), or they find a unique solution for her, she’s going to need a smartphone. I’m just saying that it doesn’t have to be a smartphone which does anything more than that one app.
Is it inevitable? Is the battle lost? Will I too have to get a smartphone just to be able to do the basics?
There’s middle ground. Here in the US, they sell “shechted” phones with apps such as browsers and video players removed. I don’t know how easy it is to get these in EY, but in theory, you should be able to get a smartphone which does nothing besides the minimum you need – your company’s security app, and perhaps SMS.
You can even get it as a second device, and only use it when you need it for those, and continue to use your basic phone for talk.
There are a lot of people who do that here in the US.
Imagine if someone said “I think the Jews should be in jail”.
And then when someone gets upset, they say they mean Madoff specifically, and it was obvious.Completely inapt analogy. You should quit while you’re behind.
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If you want accurate responses, don’t use the wrong word. When you say technology, I hear technology.
Very poor excuse. You’re smarter than that.
+1 Syag.
Also, I frankly think it’s ridiculous that people nitpick the word “technology” when there’s a very real issue here, that some of today’s technology posts a real threat to people’s ruchniyus. I think playing what is essentially semantics belittles a very real concern.
Nobody here is saying that any of today’s devices are problematic because they’re new. They’re problematic because they can and do give the yetzer hora a tremendous opening to tempt people, and many people have succumbed.
Does Google Voice work in Eretz Yisroel?
How do they charge them?
If someone eats chazzir, was it ratzon HKB”H?
Nieces, not cousins.
One time I was offered something at work that was cholov stam, and the lady showed me the OU-D and said, ‘See? It’s kosher. You can eat it.” How does one explain himself out of such a situation?
Explain that it is kosher, but there are different standards for kosher, and you only eat dairy products where the milking was watched by an observant Jew.
That was already addressed in #185 and #454.
Many people hold by Rabi Yehuda HaChassid and don’t marry first cousins
Are those two separate statements? Because I don’t think R’ Yehuda Hachassid wrote about cousins.
I’ve had several responses on this thread.
DY – I’m still waiting for a response…
To what?
evil dressed well is still worse than incompetence with no table manners.
Worth quoting.
Why don’t you ask them?
Are clothing stores?
Are payments to Areivim being made to goyim?
Are purchases at a Jewish owned clothing store considered ma’aser?
Can you take life insurance payments as ma’aser?
but i wonder how come ventures like Areivim don’t get the same amount of publicity or response?
Who says they don’t?
The information is not inherently negative. How it’s said could impart negativity.
I had the same thoughts about Beitar. It might be worth looking into, but I was concerned that it might be too “right-wing” for you.
I view that comment as being in the same category as discussing prices.
I think it’s fine, but according to your approach on this thread, that statement would constitute lashon hora on a community.
Not okay unless l’toeles.
You seemed to be saying that just like it could be muttar to tell one person, it could be muttar to tell the whole world online. And I was saying that that doesn’t follow.
Forget about whether it follows from your hypothetical, which I was not even talking about. Why isn’t it muttar? It is 1) not inherently negative 2) a piece of information useful for anyone making a purchasing decision. They can choose to save the money or consider other factors (distance, beauty of the store, etc.) as more important.
That is very different than if he would tell me that he is less intelligent than Reuven
and
announcing to the world that I charge more than others do
are examples of what I was referring to. As opposed to, “Shoprite charges $2.50 and Walmart charges $2”.
BTW, IQ is hardly a fair standard of intelligence.
You’re not reading what I wrote.
It would be easier to read if you wouldn’t post it in the middle of the thread…
You wrote above that your product being more expensive is actually a ma’aleh. Now you’re saying that it necessarily reflects negatively?
There are many reasons, halachically and otherwise legitimate, why a price can be higher. It’s not inherently a negative.
It may very well change the buyer’s decision, but that’s both to his, and the lower priced store’s benefit. We don’t find the issur of causing hezek to the higher priced store except when it’s clear that the buyer would have likely purchased there – “שאחד רוצה להכנס לחנות לקנות סחורה”.
I’m not sure why you replied to an earlier post…
Are you trying to argue that this case isn’t loshon hora at all or are you arguing that it is loshon hora but it’s allowed l’toeles and this would be considered l’toeles?
That depends which case you’re talking about. If someone would do a direct price comparison in a case where neither store is violating halacha, I don’t think it’s l”h to begin with. If the higher price is a violation of halacha, it is muttar l’toeles.
The point is that when you post something online it stays there forever. That is why it may have a different din.
That should not matter, since it’s clear that the information is from some time ago and may have changed.
The reason online discussion can be worse is because if inherently bad information is posted, there may be people reading it for whom it may not be l’toeles. The question would be if the fact that so many more people will be warned is itself a toeles.
Also, subjective reviews are a bigger problem, because you don’t really know the tastes of the reviewer and whether it applies to you.
Reading negative reviews is a further problem, because you often don’t know that the information is even being given honestly.
Since you haven’t responded, I will assume you are referring to this:
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=15142&st=&pgnum=262&hilite=I will make the following observation – he is referring to this case:
אם הוא רואה שאחד רוצה להכנס לחנות לקנות סחורה אצל אחד
In this case specifically, he is causing a (somewhat) direct loss to the owner. This is not the case with a general discussion (online or otherwise).
Also, you wrote, Overcharging is defined halachically as charging a certain amount more than the norm. .
That’s not the case he is referring to, though, when he says it’s אסור. In a case where there is a violation of אונאה, it would be permitted (actually, a mitzvah) to tell, even where the buyer is ready to walk into the store.
He is referring to a case where there is not a (definite) violation of אונאה.
I looked in the Chofetz Chaim and he says that you are not necessarily allowed to tell someone who is planning to purchase an item in a particular store that the store overcharges.
Citation please.
Sure, you can make it assur by making the case that he said it in a negative way.
But again, that wasn’t the discussion. You added that in.
Any information which is muttar to relate l’toeles is subject to change. You’ve just done away with the heter of toeles.
That’s what you seem to be trying to do here the whole time, actually.
I am even willing to have “Working class family” Yeshivas for those that are Middle to Lower class families. THen the more well to do schools can even have trips to Israel and Switzerland.
But their tuition won’t be helping keep the cost of the working families’ tuition down.
But there are maalos to mine.
520: no point in rehashing. I still disagree and encourage you to refrain in the future.
525: You’re welcome.
You’d be right. But that’s not what we were discussing.
In fact, I frequently check the prices of my local stores against each other. That should be assur, and I shouldn’t be allowed to believe the higher price.
Gourmet Glatt can post their prices online. They can not make a point of posting Season’s prices and comparing it to their own.
Lashon hora is assur even if the listener will figure out the negative implication from information they didn’t specifically hear from the speaker. So, if a price comparison were assur, so would stating one price be assur, because at least some of the listeners already know (or will find out) the other.
Iacisrmma hadn’t mentioned that
Yes, he had. As had I.
Is Gourmet Glatt allowed to post their prices online? Since undoubtedly there are people who know Seasons’ prices on specific items, Gourmet Glatt posting a lower price should, according to you, constitute lashon hora.
(For example only. I’m sure each store has lower prices on different items at different times.)
We are talking about COMPARING two places and making a point of telling someone that one is more expensive than the other.
I am talking about an objective comparison of what two or more stores charge for the exact same product or products.
According to that logic, this halacha wouldn’t exist in the first place.
I told you a clear distinction. The halacha exists, but you are misapplying it.
Presumably, if you are telling someone that the merchandise in Store A is more expensive than the merchandise in store B, then you would also have to let them know that it is better quality if it is relevant to the person you are speaking to.
I said the same product. Let’s please not keep shifting the discussion.
If I had known that my words would be twisted to sound like feminism and possibly create a chillul Hashem, I might have phrased things differently
My issue had nothing to do with feminism. It had to do with stating something definitively when you don’t have all relevantinformation, even if you think you might know enough. Fortunately, no harm was done, because LB didn’t take your words as definitive, but don’t count on that in all cases.
Your “tzu shtel” between the case discussed in the sefer and that being discussed here doesn’t work.
The “reason” you stated earlier shouldn’t apply to prices, as I said, and you didn’t respond to.
Was the quote from “A Lesson a Day” referring to posting online?
Besides, a difference in price on the same product is objective. Why wouldn’t it be l’toeles for everyone reading it?
But if I don’t tell him, I cause the buyer a hefsed because he’ll spend more than he needs to.