Health

mdd -“Kanoi Next Door, let’s get it straight. Egypt and Greece do have a conscription. UK had it till 1960.Us — till 1973.”

Well I’m sure if Turkey was running EY -there would be No draft.

“If you don’t hold of the Medinah do not take money from them. You can’t have it both ways.”

Again Charedim aren’t second-hand citizens that have no right to social programs. Stop with the “I’m better than you argument.” The more you argue this the more you prove that Israel is similar to South Africa during Apartheid.

“Why work!?!?!? Because insisting on staying in learning while living off the money of those who do not want anymore to support you is CHILLUL HASHEM!!!”

Again sitting and learning is doing a bigger service to the country than going to the army -it protects e/o!

Go preach to your fellow Zionists about the importance of learning instead of always coming here and screaming “CHILLUL HASHEM!!

daniela -“Health – I agree – but the point is, a Rabbi and posek may allow a DNR when it is halachically permissible, but will hardly ever approve a DNR unless the patient has made clear his/her wish and intention not to be resuscitated.”

You seem to have some knowledge, but you are still ignorant.

Don’t get influenced by other posts like the guy benign-something. Many DNR decisions are made without the pt’s wishes known. Most people don’t want to think about these issues with regards to their end of life so they don’t make any decisions in this regard, but they all of a sudden become sick and are in a coma. A lot of these pts. will get DNR’s both medically & Halachically.

“If she wanted to be left alone and die peacefully, I can respect that (also, it’s usually less of a problem halachically, because once we start life-support aggressive measures, by the time doctors realize they are futile, they are already in place and respirators outside Jewish hospitals don’t usually have the 24 hours button);”

I have a few problems with this paragraph. If we decided that the efforts are futile why did we (medical personnel) put the pt. on a respirator? I never heard of this 24 hr. button -what is it?

“but if so, why call emergency services? Why divert essential services who might have been needed elsewhere? Why give grief to the human being who answered the telephone and what did he do to deserve having to stand by impotently while someone was dying, he will keep dreaming and daydreaming this for years, possibly for the rest of his life.”

The last part is a exaggeration. Yes, this I could never understand when I was doing EMS. The family gets a DNR, but then they call us when an emergency happens. Lack of education somewhere.

“The nurse should have held her hand in silence or saying whatever she felt was fitting to the circumstance.”

It was the nurse’s job to call for help -which she did. Maybe she did hold her hand afterwards?

“Regardless of religion or lack thereof, it seems to me it’s totally disrespectful to stay needlessly on the phone while another human being is dying.”

Noone stood needlessly by the phone -the nurse called -she did her job. The dispatcher answered -he/she did their job.

“If it was not what the old lady wanted, then it’s not murder, but it surely is despicable.”

And if she did want to, but had no medical history -then it’s Not despicable acc. to Torah? It surely is!

“I don’t care to divide the responsibility among the nurse, the facility administration, the government, the voters – it’s despicable. May those people care for each others, and may we and our loved ones never meet them when we are unwell or “simply” very old.”

Sorry, you seem to want to divide the blame amongst e/o -this simply is Not fair or true. The Torah does Not require you to lose your job or be sued if you now decide to break protocol. The blame lies squarely on the Gov. and those that put them there.

“PS Of course I fully realize an employee, if caught, jeopardizes and sometimes loses their job by not “following protocol”. There are many nurses who are unafraid of breach of protocol in regards to (at best) increasing certain drugs’ dosage against medical orders, and as a side effect hastening death.”

I don’t know if you are in the medical field or not, but you definitely are very ignorant about it. We take something called Medical Ethics. It Is the responsibility of a nurse to point out mistakes that have been ordered and to question those orders. Any nurse that willfully gives a lethal dose of medications has committed murder -legally and Halachically. Sometimes if you question an order – the prescriber says -“No, I am right”. At this point recheck your info and if you know you’re right – you are required to go over that person’s head. By not doing so – will get you fired and sued. I don’t know where you got these misconceptions from, but I hope I cleared them up.

ari-free -“It is SILLY to think that a tiny country like Israel will be able to do anything about it. It doesn’t even have real bombers such as the B-2 stealth bomber.

Without the protection of Torah, I don’t see how anything good will come from this.”

You’re right. The Tzionim/Zionists, “religious” or not, are playing with fire!

But in their dream world they think adding a few Charedim to the IDF will protect them because “Might is Right”. Or are they doing it because “It’s Not Fair”? Either way removing people from learning Torah is a very dangerous act. I think they better open a Chumash and see what it says regarding “Koach V’otzem Yodi” and why Hashem brings the “Tochecha”.

benignuman -“Health, The general rule is that where the patient’s wishes are reasonable a DNR is permissible. If the patient is being unreasonable then a DNR is not permissible. The patient’s desire is given great consideration. Etc.”

Whatever floats your boat. You said the exact same thing as me but by twisting things around. As long as you got the last word. I’m more interested in the truth than the last word.

benignuman -“And the halacha does not require the resuscitation of a patient that is suffering and does not want to continue to live.”

As a general rule – you are wrong. Yes, in some cases where a pt. is suffering the Rov will permit a DNR -in some cases not. The pt’s. desire is Not given that much consideration. Every case has to be judged up individually! That’s why there are Rabbonim that deal specifically with End of Life issues. It’s Not for your LOR to decide these questions!

2scents -“it means that it is not allowed. So in fact the company prohibited her from doing CPR.”

If this is the def – then they did prohibit it.

PBA -“It was bad enough when the forced conscripts of the Nazi’s said that. You would extend it to any employee?

Any employee would break the rules if it was something they cared about. If it was their nephew being assaulted 300 feet away, you better believe they would go save him. If it was this nurse’s mother, you better believe she’d have done CPR or at least tried to find someone to do it.”

You are correct only on the fact – if it was s/o they cared about.

If you read my post on the article -I was saying this callous lack of regard for life has nothing to do with the employee nor is it the responsibility of the company -this responsibility lies directly with our Govs. and I explained it. Is our Gov. similar in ways to Nazi Germany? Perhaps; but stop pointing the finger at this employee. I always heard -when one finger points out -four point back. The blame lies with the Gov. and the public who voted them into office.

Ask any Poisek if you have to give up your job to try to save s/o’s life and I don’t think they will answer yes.

If you think morality is bad now in the US – wait until Obamacare comes in!

2scents -“However, in this case the PT was dying, can a company prohibit a staff member of doing CPR on someone?”

What do you mean prohibit? Put a gun to her/his head? No, they didn’t do that. Could she/he have lost his/her job? Probably.

shnitzy -“That WAS impartial.

For your info peoples, the contest isn’t over yet!”

Ok -Here goes:

Thank goodness I’m a monkey and the Guy in the Yellow Hat doesn’t post rules for me to follow like some Jewish humans have. If I was like these humans -I wouldn’t have a typewriter or keyboard attached to the Internet because I’d be scared that my little Monkey Kinderlach would be thrown out of monkey school.

Being a Monkey sure beats being Human!

Mr. Doniel – I’m not a Poisek, but the Poiskim of the CRC and Rabbi Heineiman say clearly that this Shtickle Torah you wrote is only acc. to some – others hold Not like this. So R’ Heineiman holds you can only be Someiach on this B’dieved, not L’chatchilla.

realtalk -“Help me! I am a student who recently started interning in my career. I finish the day exhausted and just want to sleep. However, I still have tests.”

Sorry, no sympathy from me. Nurses have it easy compared to others in different areas of medicine. Grin and bear it. Sleep when you can.

GAW -“That would be wonderful! Please tell me you are serious.”

What do you mean -“me serious”? I just read an article about it -it was during the time when the Yerushalmies dressed up like war prisoners because they had arrested Yerushalmies for Tzinius demonstrations – I have no idea if this/these guys’ idea will come to fruition.

agent -“I don’t care if you agree or disagree with me, but the above comment was negative and I was answering to that.”

You just proved my point from above by calling my post Negative!

Here it is again:

“Not e/o, everything can be the best. This is life. I really don’t understand how this mentally came about in America.

I think people have to learn the meaning of the word Anavah.”

jbaldy22 -“the truth is the rabbonim are very reasonable people and considering the number of people who are professionals who live in lakewood and have unfiltered internet i find it highly improbable that they are going to be throwing kids out because of it. Considering the number of people who have internet in lakewood it must be either really easy to get an ishur or no one cares about having without it.”

For s/o who doesn’t live here -you sure know more about it then me.

You can make Choizek all you want, but they take having an Internet very seriously. I know all about the type of guys that have recently moved here -they think the internet is No biggie.

But usually these guys have no kids yet or their kids are still small. To get your kids into school here is very difficult to say the least. I’m telling you -if anyone thinks they are gonna apply to a school and tell them they have the Net, even filtered, but don’t really need it for business, they can forget about getting in. If you tell your Rov that you need it for business -you’ll have to prove it. You and others might think it’s a big joke, but you can’t get away with everything so easily like they do in NY.

MDG -“Isreal invaded Lebanon to oust the PLO.”

So just because Israel started it -doesn’t make it a war?

We would have been much better under Turkey; Israel has made and keeps making foolish blunders in their security politics. They went into Lebanon to solve the PLO prob and it was replaced with Hizbullah -a much stronger enemy. They sat down with the PLO and gave them the West Bank & Gaza for peace, not only is there no peace in the West Bank, but they have Hamas ruling Gaza.

It’s amazing to me how Jews keep blindly following this idol.

And to the Zionists here – Israel biggest blunder is about to be making a Gov. with Lapid and Bennett.

They believe in Koach V’ozem Yodi, etc. and that’s why they want to draft people sitting and learning. People have to make Hishtalus, but not to have such a big army as they have now. There is no need to have Charedim there against their will. I know -they have to be there otherwise – Boo-hoo -it’s Not fair.

Actually the learning protects the Jews more than any guy with a gun -so it’s more than fair.

This is a two-fold mistake. (To draft Charedim.) 1. The Torah talks about what happens to the Klal when you say

Koach V’ozem Yodi, etc. 2. The Toechacha comes to the Klal because of Not being Omal B’torah which is impossible when they are in the army. I’m quite sure that this new Gov. that’s about to be formed will Not last too long. I hope it collapses before Hashem gives out the decrees that he wrote in the Torah that I just mentioned.

MDG -“notice I said “a sovereign Arab country”. Terrorist groups can cause lots of destrution of life and property, but they can hardly bring down a country, especially one that is prepared to deal with them.”

I honestly don’t understand your differentiation. I see No difference between Hamas and any other Arab country. The difference is Israel is the one who gave Gaza to the Arabs.

They function like their own country -with Gov, army, etc.

There is the same amount of threat from these terrorists than there is from “sovereign Arab countries”.

And btw, the last I heard – Lebanon was a “sovereign Arab country” and the Lebanon war was Not on your list.

Mr. Doniel -“What about all the Mizrahim and Sephardim who suffered under the Arabs and Ottomans for years? The reason why so many of us supported R’ Kahane, hy”D, zt”l, was because we know what it was like living under Arab tyranny and barbarism.”

The Muslims were no better or worse than any other Goyim throughout the generations. Ever hear of the crusades? But since the Zionists came into being the hatred towards Jews has more than doubled. Besides all the wars and causalties that they have caused.

Sounds like a troll. Very few businesses in the house need the Net. And if you really need the Net at home for business – you could probably get an Ishur from your Rov, providing you have a filter.

gavra_at_work -“It is inherently not Tzanuah to go “date watching”, which is what happens at these “lounges”. Go somewhere that you can concentrate on your own date.”

I personally have never done this, neither do I know anybody who has. Most hotels the lounges are quite dark and usually not that crowded where one is on top of another. While you can see other couples -almost never are you up close and personal to them. This term “date watching” is more appropiate for MO dating, eg. a pizza shop – brightly lit and e/o close together.

OOmis -“As to hotel lobbies, personally as a Modern Orthodox Machmir, I think that those are TERRIBLE places to go for a date. Do you have any idea what pritzus goes on in hotels, that could be happening in front of our young people’s very eyes or even just the knowledge that it might be going on??? I am not being sarcastic. My daughter was taken on such a date, and witnessed what was clearly a pickup. THAT’S where we want our kids to date, rather than to go out for a slice of pizza, if they cannot afford dinner in a restaurant? And do you really believe we need a heter for someone to go out to a restaurant, sport event, etc. if they are not on a date? OK, I respect your opinion.”

While you make some good points in your posts -I’ll address this part which I strongly disagree with.

I do think going to a hotel if you’re Not Chassidsh (home dating)is a good place to start. Yes it’s possible to see Untzinus things, but I don’t think that is as bad as starting a date in a casual mode. While maybe having a fun date is good for later on in a relationship -It Is Not good at the beginning. I feel you should not be Heimish with the date on the first few times. This IMHO is Pritzus. I don’t agree with what the MO crowd does! Esp. since many dates end after 1 or 2 times (in a decision of – not for me). A hotel setting is much more formal.

mdd -“Health, I do not think that the secular Ataturk’s Turkish Republick would not include the Jews in the general draft.”

Our little argument can partially be solved if we find out whether they draft the Jews from Istanbul nowadays or not.

If they don’t, then they wouldn’t do it in EY either. And if they do, perhaps they still wouldn’t draft from one of their countries under their control due to conflicts of interest.

Gamanit -“He said to talk to him as if he were an 80 year old. So Health replied as if he were an 80 year old telling him that it’s not a problem for someone of his age…”

Thank you.

I think jokes are lost when you have to explain them, no?

mdd -“Health, Turkey has a mandatory draft. They also fight the Kurds. Turkey is a member of NATO. The Americans wanted it there as an ally against the USSR. If somebody told them to go jump in the lake with their draft, the response would have been brutal.”

I really don’t think if they were running EY – they would draft a bunch of Jews. They might draft some of the arabs there, but none of the Jews -after all they are Muslem.

oheiv sholom -“Talmud, don’t forget Rav Meir Platnick, Rav Yitzchok Yarmush and the rest of the rebbeim there who all have outstanding qualities”

I don’t know why you picked these two, but all the Rebbeyim have nice Middos.

mdd -“The British or the Arabs would have found whom to maintain an army against. Besides, the Arabs would not have sponsored all those Yeshivos the way Israel does.”

I’m not sure who is a worse Antisemite -the English or the Arabs?

Neither should run EY. The English should have given it back to the Turks. There probably wouldn’t have been much Freye living there if they would have. No Freye would want to live in a somewhat religious country that respects religion. The Zionists could have made their country in Uganda. Also, if the Turks would have been running it -there would have been no wars, no terrorist attacks, no causalities and no one to Shmad up all the Oilem, like the Yeminites!