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DY – “This statement of yours answers the others. If someone is not ready to get married, why should that pater them? For the simple reason that the marriage will likely not work out!”

You misunderstood my point. I was being Melaned Zecus on why almost e/o waits till 18 years of age; I wasn’t saying it’s clear from the S’A you can. After 18, I felt you have to give them some time to look for what they put on their list, but this is my thinking -who said the S’A would agree with me.

One thing has nothing to do with the other. Being too immature for marriage isn’t the same thing as I don’t want s/o 20 years older.

“Until then, the rabbonim obviously don’t feel that the chiyuv to get married forces one to get involved in an ill advised marriage (and obviously feel that it’s consistent with S.A.)”

This statement is totally farfetched. No where does the S’A even come close to saying this. Like I previously posted the S’A is very specific what type of potentional husband you can deny yourself from marrying. Sorry, an ill advised marriage isn’t one of them (age gap). As a matter of fact, the S’A uses a totally different reason for Zakain and Yalda, the reason is because of Zenus. If the S’A agreed with you about ill advised marriage, why pick on Zakain and Yalda, any age gap like a 20 y.o. to a 40 y.o. would suffice? And most importantly, why come up with a new reason of Zenus, just quote the Braisa in Yevamos that says age gap can cause Ketotoh. So it’s obvious the S’A didn’t hold your Putter because the marriage is ill advised.

“I think so, but I wouldn’t push them into what would likely be a bad marriage.”

You aren’t, but the Torah is pushing them into an ill advised marriage that might end up bad.

“I know of an older single girl who on several occasions was close to getting engaged. She had reservations, and spoke, each time, to an adam gadol. She was not told to simply get married because she has a chiyuv! If she had a legitimate concern, the rov she spoke to told her not to marry him!”

I don’t even know why you brought this story -I’ve posted many times that the S’A specifically lists a few different reasons why a woman can deny a potentional suitor. Perhaps this guy had one of those problems. But, sorry to inform you, age gap isn’t one of them!

DY -“Also, according to you, it’s perfectly acceptable to marry someone quite a bit younger, so why would age be a criterion for elimination?”

They aren’t eliminated; just recommended against only when you have more than one to choose.

“One more thing – why does the beraisa say the issue is kettotah if the issue is finances?”

Kettoh means strife. In this case the strife is financial.

“The pshat I mentioned is the simple pshat, and it does not pose any of these difficulties.

The kasha on mem daled is how can beis din allow an ill advised marriage (multiple wives – assumed in the kasha to be unaffordable) even if there’s a mitzvah of yibum. We find similarly in the beraisa that based on the pasuk of v’dibru, beis din advises (insists) against an ill advised marriage despite the mitzvah (the example the beraisa gave of an ill advised marriage is to someone of a very different age, which will lead to marital discord”

Ok, let’s say you could learn your P’shat that they use the Posuk to tell you that you aren’t allowed to do Yibum with older or younger women. My P’shat fits in so you don’t have to learn your way, but let’s say you want to. Where do you ever see you don’t have to be Mikayim Pru OORevu because of age difference? You want to say the Posuk throws it out of Yibum altogether, fine; but now take it and learn it by regular marriage -impossible. And you can’t say I’ll find someone else -this minute you are being Mevatel Pru OORevu. The same is true by the woman -this minute they aren’t being Mekayim L’sheves Yeetzoroh.

Now you know why Boaz said what Rus did was such a big chessed- marrying an older guy can cause marital strife and even so she wanted him. And in her case, not like nowadays it was Only chessed because e/o wanted to marry her. But in our generation they will sit aroung waiting in their twenties and thirties, not necessarily having s/o who definitely will marry them but as long as they won’t marry s/o older. Maybe the older guys aren’t Tzadikim like Boaz, but the girls aren’t like Rus either were e/o wants them or they would be married by 22!

DY -Sorry I didn’t get back sooner – I was busy.

“The Tur does not say one word about more than one yevama, because the beraisa was not only talking in such a case.”

The Tur is talking about the case whatever the Braisa is -so it doesn’t have to specify.

“I completely fail to follow your train of thought.

Likewise.”

I now understand how you are learning, but let us analyze the Gemorah on Mem-Daled and see how your P’shat can’t be P’shat.

You say the Gemorrah asked from the Braisa on the Mishna-

“The gemara quoted it to ask a kasha. The beraisa was talking about regular yibum.”

Ok, so acc. to you what is the Kasha? The Mishna says that a person can marry more than one Yevama and the Braisa says you shouldn’t marry age difference (by one Yevama or more)(And I guess Kettoh means fighting because of age)? This isn’t a kasha because you can just say the Mishna was talking about a case where they were all the same age, so no problem.

The way I’m learning is like this -the Braisa and Mishna are all talking about marrying more than Yevama. So how could the Mishna say you can marry more than one, the Braisa says when you have more than one Yevama you look to get rid of the others by looking for age difference or any difference? With my P’shat there can only be one answer -that the Mishna is talking about a rich man and he can afford to marry a few. You can’t give the simple answer that the Mishna was talking about no age difference because that isn’t the point of the Braisa. The point of the Braisa was – get rid of as many as you can and only marry one (because the Yovom can’t afford it acc. to the Maskonoh).

So now you see why I’m learning in regular marriage or regular Yibum there is no problem marrying age difference. (At least, you don’t have any Rayah from this Gemorrah that there is.) It was only a problem because we needed to help this guy get out from marrying more than one Yevama because he couldn’t afford it.

DY -Go back and look again, but the main Gemorrah explaining it is Mem Daled. The gemorah on Kuf Aleph had a problem with numbers because we have this posuk that if you add it up -it equals 7, but the Rabbonim hold 3. So the gemorrah answers we need it to teach you that you have to give the guy a good Eitzah (advice) (on whom to marry -same age or older or younger), so now that the posuk which R’ Yehudah uses to add 4 more to the Bais Din, the Rabbonim use it for something else, so they don’t have to add 4 more to the Bais Din. So now the Rabbonim could hold 3 on the B.D.

Enough with Talmud 101!

twisted -In order to be a mother of Moshiach you have to be a great Tzadaikess, like Rus who was full of Chessed. One of her best Chassodim was marrying an older guy. So who wants to be like Rus?

DY – “And even if the gemara strongly advises against it?”

I looked it up. The main gemorrah is Mem Daled (I think). You must be joking because otherwise you just Crumed up the Gemorrah. You do realize that was an Eitza for someone who had more than one woman he had to marry, it has nothing to do with regular marriage or even regular Yibum. It costs a lot of money to marry a few women, so they helped him choose.

binahyeseira- “my point was that in this way i don’t think people in those days were much different than we are (except that a woman wouldn’t divorce so easily, even if she was miserable)- that’s the gadlus of boaz and rus; they did the right thing even though people would talk.”

Yes, I understand your point, but this is our fundamental disagreement: There are two types of talking. One someone doing an Aveira and one someone doing something not PC. The community in that time never heard of the Din -Moavi V’lo Moaviah. So if Ploni Almoni would be Mechadesh it, noone would accept it and say he is being Oiver an Aveirah, as opposed to Boaz (the Godol).

In our generation, if you do something not PC, like marry a girl 20 years younger, the world will talk. They didn’t have these kind of hang ups in that generation!

BSD -“It is precisely that-Rus’ tznius-that impressed Boaz.”

I doubt that- the posuk says “Shocheves Margulosuv”.