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Like A6KB and GAW indicated, this bill is designed to make it easier for Russian shkotzim, who have no intention to keep a single Shabbos, to “convert” as “Jews.”
I see every reason to oppose it.
That is all very compelling, and if I were a posek would likely rule in accordance with the logic you just outlined. Nevertheless, the Gedolim of today and the previous generation evidentally feel that it is wrong and shouldn’t be done, if not an actual issur. This was demonstrated by the sourced post previously made on this thread.
You made a similar observation, if I recall correctly, on the worms in fish discussion, when you indicated you felt Rav Belsky’s logic more compelling but nevertheless against the ruling of the majority of gedolim. And you included Rav Heinneman as against, since he recommended not to eat it – even though he didn’t specifically state it was an actual issur.
Here I am stating simply the majority Gedolim of today and yesterday who’ve directly commented on shaving (rather than using our own interpretations to determine their position on the issue), are against it for whatever reason. Rav Kanievsky, to use as an example, was very clear on this, as sourced by a previous poster much earlier on the thread.
Goodbye, it wasnt my list. The against list had maare mekomos. What is the source to your hearsay that those permitted?
Hello99, please provide your list whenever you find it. We’re sincerely awaiting it. (You had no trouble making a list on the worms thread. On this thread the vast majority listed are on the record as against.)
When you ask a bungalow colony why they have mixed swimming, they’ll often excuse it “since we’re a MO colony.” You will not find Yeshivishe thieves establish Congregation Anshei Embezllers. Both examples are of sinners, but only one established sinning as acceptable and justified it under Judaism.
We know Jews arent perfect and do sin, but the Torah is perfect and we dont change the Torah and Judaism to accomodate.
SJS: Why does the Torah consider the parts that are erva, to be erva (and to be treated as erva is treated)?
When you have that answer, your point is refuted.
No Yeshivish guy ever excused gezel as being okay “because I’m Yeshivish”, unlike some MO who excuse their breach of halachos “because I’m MO.” (See my example above.)
Both adherents have sinned, but only one institutionalized sinning as okay under their banner of Judaism.
Wolf, People who engage in mixed swimming, when challanged, excuse it since they are “MO.” So they themselves use MO to justify being less commited to Torah and mitzvos.
Very true philosopher. In those circles what goes on is unfortunately considered normal, whereas by chareidim they would be considered at risk and helped as such.
Oomis, Rav Moshe paskened in IM that its assur min haTorah for boys and girls to be “friends”.
Also, if you check out the shidduch after an emotional relationship has been established it may be difficult or almost impossible to break even if there is something nefarious in his/her background.
How can anyone in good concience wear a wig that looks like real hair, long hair, flouncy, attention grabbing, etc.
Where are the sensibilities, let alone tznius??
hello99, on the worms issue you repeatedly said you were listing those gedolim “against” eating it, even if they didnt say it is halachicly assur.
Welcome to the (non-exclusive) club, and dont be bashful! 🙂
SDHN: Very true.
SJS: Even IF that all were true, there is no way to show the part you claim is muttar without also sometimes showing parts that even you agree is assur.
There were no electric shavers for the SA, Rema, CS, et al to rule on, so their discussions dont pertain to it. Since the CC assered the equipment of even his day, nowadays the shavers do a much closer shave so surely if the CC was against it then, the newer equip. is all the worse. So how many, and which, Gedolim can you cite regarding electric shavers, as the vast majority thus far cited by maxwell and others are against? (Sorry for the Norelco quip, it was a joke.)
hello99 – looking through the lists I see some of the same Gedolim on the record against the worms in fish are against shaving.
hello99,
The entire raison d’etere of your argument against eating the fish in the ‘Worms in Fish’ thread controversy, was that even though some choshov rabbonim mattired the fish, since the vast majority of Gedolei Yisroel was against eating the fish we should follow that majority of Gedolim.
To be consistent with your own reasoning and argument on the fish issue, you need to be moida that since the vast majority of Gedolei Yisroel are against shaving off the beard, we should not shave off the beard.
Time to rid yourself of that Norelco and start looking like a Yid. 🙂
Hello99, you’ve asserted you have the ”vast majority” of poskim on your side. So far we have cited by posters here on this thread maare makoms against shaving by the CI, CC, Steipler, R. Kanievsky, R. Yaakov Kaminetzky, R. Shach, R. Vozner, R. Shternbuch, R. Elyashev, and a whole host of other Gedolei Yisroel past and present in both EY and Ch’L. Who, and how many of your ”vast majority”, of anyone of this caliber and stature can you cite — especially with maare mekomos??
I’m not aware of the LSC having any body parts. Is that the case?
BP Totty’s outside view is completely out of perspective.
Because there are so few such opportunities (if I may be so bold as to answer on his behalf.)
Wolf:
I meant Jewish mummies. Anyone who has been there can certainly testify they are all over the place.
Many even have strollers.
No lawyer would appear before a Judge in Court to represent his client without a jacket.
Is Hashem less than a goyishe judge?
Akiva: Extremely well said and presented.
Thank You.
payingattention: well put.
And not only can it escalate, as you well demonstrated, but the situation wasn’t ideal to begin with.
PY: Igros Moshe siman please, before your claim is accepted. Thx
Other than the mummies?
JK
He would ”almost” vomit. See the sources cited above.
Funny thing is that Chasidsha marriages, resulting from a beshow, tend to be the warmest most long-lasting comparitively.
I say so not even being a chosid, but with insight.
I don’t see any shverkeit in the saying he could almost vomit when seeing a Jewish man without a beard. If I saw a man dressed as a woman I’d almost vomit too. The CI essentially said a man without a beard is ”dressing” like a woman, hence he would almost vomit.
Wolf, name ONE SPECIFIC ROV anywhere even debatably near Rav Chaim’s stature who disagrees with the important nature of a hat/jacket (putting aside the precedence question.)
Oomis, it is assur to even bring the shmutzidik pictures in those papers into a jewish home. Aside from the impossibility of ”not noticing” them as you flip thru the shmutzidik papers.
WIY: the quote of the CI is emes.See the Beard thread where I provided the maare mokoms.
I’m not from EY. I do agree the anonymity of the net makes it all too easy to hide behind a computer to dismiss real problems that klal yisroel is trying to correct, and make choizek of the whole terrible matzif.
It may seem without consequence, but there is a bashefer keeping din v’cheshbon.
Apy, publicly shaming a specific street is loshon hora. Publicly crying about a real problem like this, is a mitzva. I will not id specific people or blocks or bungalow colonies.
The Wolf:
1) There is no ”problem” with Rav Chaim’s position.
2) Rav Chaim’s position is in concurrence with ”common practice.”.
3) Rav Chaim is in fact following an open Mishna Berura.
4) ”Most of the world” takes this approach.
5) In fact, not one poster on this thread thus far has cited a specific identified opposing Rov, and certainly not anyone near the stature of Rav Chaim.
6) Even if someone of such stature is found, the disagreement at most will be whether minyan or hat/jacket takes precedance. There will be no disagreement with Rav Chaim by anyone of stature over the critical nature of a hat/jacket where possible.
The above may not suit well your American ears, but the Emes is the Emes.
The problem is people ignore the problems, and when told of them deny them.
You can read kindle books on the ipad. The nook is tied to B&N only.
On another thread someone (not myself) said the Chazon Ish said he would almost vomit when he saw a Yid without a beard. The Wolf asked for a source. That quote of the CI is brought by Rav Moshe Shternbuch shlita (a talmid of the CI) in his Sefer Hadros Ponim, p. 304 as well as in Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlita’s (a nephew of the CI) Sefer Orchas Yosher.
I want to go to McDonald’s.
What does ”wanting to” have to do with Yidden? Zilch.
Not everything in life is ”clear-cut”. That is no excuse.
The ostrich sticks his head into the sand.
It’s true. Like you said, some can be found.
Beautiful story.
BTW, it would be an even bigger KH if it was a Yid. (just sayin, since you specifically mentioned it wasn’t.)
I say go for it! I’ll be first in line. Never fear looking like a Jew.
WIY: Even the WSJ got much worse of late.
G_A_W: All your assumptions are mistaken.
Far far better to be uninformed of the ”news”, than to chas v’shalom encounter even ONE instance of the terrible pritzus rampant in the newspapers.
Apy, you were provided the maare makom for HaRav Kanievsky. Additionally, this statement of Rav Kanievsky is widely quoted and very well known. CALL Rav Kanievsky yourself.
Rescue, what do you ”need” to know that matirs seeing pritzus in the Post or News??
Why dont you call Rav Kanikevsky shlita himself, rather than cast aspersions on his holy words or attempt to add conditions to his statement he never added.