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Back to the op – I don’t know if I have any names, but I don’t think the moderators would let us list names in any case.
Try to think positively of others even when they annoy you.
No, lack of tznius comes from insecurity. If you’re comfortable with the way you look, you don’t know to show the whole world.
So why are you looking for someone who is Modern Yeshivish?
I just reread the thread and I think I may have misunderstood Scald’s post. Were you trying to say that it’s okay with you if the girl watches tv and movies? On SYAS, for the tv/movies question, one of the options is: “possibly” which apparently means that whether or not you watch tv/movies, you won’t necessarily reject someone who does (even if you don’t do so yourself and do consider it assur).
Was that what you meant?
ืื ืืฉืจืื ืืืจืื
Mod 29 – oh, sure. I was responding to Mod 100’s understanding of the comment (or at least my understanding of Mod 100’s understanding of the comment).
If your point was to make a macho’ah against the idea of referring to movies as “fine” or “fine for me” (as opposed to simply saying “I watch movies”), then I understand.
What happened to the other tznius thread? I can’t find it, and I had wanted to post something on it.
Even when threads are closed, you can usually still see them. Did it have a random name that I can’t remember and that’s why I can’t find it?
So are girls and women who dress untzniusly.
Now it’s question marks (one of which is upside down).
Apparently some of us are immune. Must depend on who was vaccinated. Now we get to find out who believes in vaccinations and who doesn’t.
Are question marks tznius?
Skald89 first wrote “What we consider non-jewish music, is fine with me.”, and then “movies and tv shows are fine” so I think that on the way hand, he may have thought it was clear he also meant that movies and tv are “fine WITH HIM”, but the moderator did not think that was clear.
I’m not expressing an opinion either way (and I can see both sides) – just clarifying where I think you’re both coming from.
skald89 – the people I know who call themselves Modern Orthodox Machmir are very Frum and are very serious about learning. Ofen they are more Frum than those who call themselves Modern Yeshivish. But of course there is a broad range both of people who call themselves Modern Orthodox Machmir as well as those who call themselves Modern Yeshivish.
It seems to me that the main difference is sociological. The people who call themselves Modern Orthodox Machmir are usually people who grew up in “Modern Orthodox” communities, and the Modern Yeshivish people are people who grew up in “Yeshivish” communities. This can end up having an impact on hashkafa since they may follow different Rabbanim and send their kids to different kinds of schools.
In terms of the moderator’s comment, I guess she/he will have to answer. I understood your comment the way you are saying, but I can see how it can be read either way.
I’ve been wondering why DaasYochid doesn’t have parenthesis around her name or any kind of number after it.
And why doesn’t LittleFroggie have parenthesis around her name if she thinks that women are supposed to wear burkas?
In terms of my usage of the term “mainstream Yeshivish Gedolim”, I used that term for lack of a better term. I certainly did not mean “Yeshivish” as opposed to “Chassidish”. I do not really want to get into a discussion regarding “who’s a Gadol”.
Amongst other things, I am not qualified for such a discussion, and I do not think this is the place for such a discussion. I think it is safe to say that I am referring to those Gedolim who are considered to be Gedolim and whose views are accepted by a large percentage of Talmidei Chachamim.
LB – I didn’t really read the OP or most of the rest of this thread, but I do want to make sure that you are aware of something. Many Gedolim are against the commemoration of Yom HaShoah. I am not interested in getting into that right now or getting into an argument about it. I just want to make sure that you realize that they have many reasons for this, but disrespect for the victims of the holocaust is DEFINITELY not one of them!!!
Everyone agrees that the holocaust should be commemorated; the only question is when and how. I am not interested in getting into an argument with someone who wants to commemorate Yom Hashoah; I just want to make sure that when you come across those who don’t do so that you realize that it is not chas v’shalom out of a lack of respect for holocaust victims.
(Again, I don’t know what the OP wrote and this is not meant as an approbation of the specifics of his post).
Too bad – I just wrote a bunch of posts in response to you one the “Kiruv advice thread”. I hope you get to see them before you go.
Thanks for letting me know that about the LH. I really, really, appreciate hearing that! (although I know that you’re super-careful about what you write anyhow).
My above post really should have read: “I have learned a tremendous amount from you in a short amount of time!”
I would say that the Coffee Room won’t be the same without you, but that would be kefira, since your learning does a lot more for Am Yisrael (and t/f the CR).
Shteig Well!
Oh, I just saw that Yekke wrote the same thing. I guess great minds think alike.
Mod 29 – I have no particular opinion on this thread especially since I haven’t read it, but I’m just curious about your comment. I thought that even if one moderator approves a thread, another could close or delete it if they want to. I know that has happened before. Or is it more complicated than that?
Again, I have no opinion on the subject, but I’m just wondering about your comment.
Oh, and by the way, you can definitely take credit for all of the times when I almost responded to something and didn’t because I realized there really was no reason to.
“letโs hope by then, we will all be in Yerushalayim HaBenuya celebrating the autherntic Geulah.”
Amen!
Thank you Yichsdik and Yekke for your comments on my post and for giving me the opportunity to explain what I meant. I hope that it is clearer now. Please let me know what you think and if you have any further critiques or comments.
Thank you.
I had stated what I thought was “Daas Torah” (i.e. the opinion of the Gedolim) regarding the appropriate approach to kiruv. My impression was that Yichusdik was telling me that I am wrong and I am not allowed to have that approach because Rav Noach Weinberg, zatsal, had a different hashkafa on this issue than the Gedolim do, and I have to listen to Rav Noach Weinberg, zatsal instead of the Gedolim, since he was the expert on kiruv.
Perhaps I misunderstood you, and if so I sincerely apologize. Since I thought that was what you meant, that is what I was responding to.
If that is what you meant, I greatly object to that statement. Whether or not we are wrong or right about what the Gedolim really hold and what Rav Noach Weinberg, zatsal, really held is irrelevant right now. I am and was referring to the hashkafa that one should attain his hashkafa from an “expert” in a field (whatever the field may be) as opposed to the Gedolim.
If I want to find out what the Torah approach is to a specific medical procedure that I have reason to believe may involve halachic or hashkafic issues, what would I do? I would first speak to the medical experts in order to find out the exact nature of the procedure so that I could make sure I present the question correctly, but the actual question (regarding the Torah halacha or hashkafic approach) would be asked to the Gedolim.
The same thing in any field, kiruv included. Torah hashkafa must come from the Gedolim period. And that was my point.
Yichusdik & Yekke – I apologize that I did not have an opportunity to reply to your critiques of my post right away. I have been wanting to do so ever since I saw your posts, but I wanted to make sure that I did so only when I had the opportunity to really think carefully about how I phrased things so that I would not make the same mistakes as before.
First of all, I did not, chas v’shalom, mean any disrespect towards Rav Noach Weinberg, zatsal, and I greatly apologize if anything I wrote sounded that way. That was certainly not my intention, and I am certainly not on the level to be able to do so (nor is anyone else, for that matter).
I will try to explain what my point was, and I hope that I do a better job this time.
TLIK – I agree with you that people have to be careful about not getting too caught up in labels. The main places where I see these terms used is on SYAS & JWED & shidduch resumes. In all of those places, people have the opportunity to explain what THEY PERSONALLY mean by the term.
Personally, even though I describe myself as Yeshivish, I won’t write off someone who considers himself “modern Yeshivish” or “Modern Orthodox Machmir” without first clarifying what he means by that. However, if someone checks off that he is “Modern Orthodox Liberal”, I KNOW that he is not for me. And honestly, the “modern Yeshivish” guys are rarely for me. Even the “Modern Orthodox Machmir guys are rarely for me. So labels do seem to mean something, even though one should be open-minded enough to look beyond the label at the person.
What does the 23 stand for?
Kollelman +1. L’maaseh, you did a Mitzvah even if it was inadvertent.
RY +1.
Iacisrmma – beautiful!
mik5 – nice!
Did you know that baby porcupines actually don’t have quills?
We had an animal on our mirpeset once that was living under a pile of leaves. We didn’t know what it was at first, but somehow we found out that it was a porcupine. We were confused because it didn’t have quills, but my brother looked it up in the encyclopedia and found out that baby porcupines don’t have quills.
We were surprised until my brother (who was about 9 or 10 at the time) pointed out that their mothers wouldn’t be able to give birth to them if they had quills.
I think there is truth to your statments and I think that I have heard that idea expressed before. However, I would qulaify it by being dan l’kaf zchus that whether or not that is the case, they are not aware of it, and that they sincerely think they are sincere.
I would also add that this issue probably exists to a certain extent anytime a person dresses tzniusly (even when they are dressing in a way that is clearly necessary halachically). I know that I find it hard not to be proud of myself that I am dressed tzniusly.
I think there is a difference between the two although I’m not sure that I can clarify exactly what it is. The point is that even though there is truth to your statement, I don’t think it would be fair for people to come away with the impression that these women necessarily have worse middos than the rest of us, but rather, that they are mistaken in their views.
Meno – a “cookie-cutter school” in which supposedly the girls are all taught to be exactly the same.
So I was guessing that a cookie-cutter person would be a person who copies others, although I’m not sure that I ever heard it used that way. And actually, I’m not sure it makes sense since she would be the cookie, not the cookie cutter.
Great! Thanks!
Cool – the numbers don’t change. I think I have figured out now how you can tell the order in which posts are written – I think the numbers go in order of how they were written. (although they seem to skip – maybe because of posts in other threads).
order in which the above posts were written:
1. #248
2. #251
3. #253
In case numbers change as things are posted:
1. Starts off something like, “29 and Meno, thanks for the polite responses
2. Starts off, “Meno, to answer your question
Meno, am I clear now? Do you understand now what I meant in post #090 and what it was said in reference to? Please let me know. Thanks!
29 & Mod – I appreciate your phrasing your comments so politely.
As I am sure you are aware, not all posts refer to the OP. They often refer to the previous posts. If you follow the thread, you can see what that post was in reference to.
I started out by writing 4. That is because it was a continuation of the previous post where I listed three answers. Those 3 (and then 4) answers were a response to the question that Yekke had asked me in the post immediately preceding mine. His question was in response to my post #1260488.
In post #1260487, I had already given my opinion regarded the case mentioned in the OP. In #1260488, I started discussing another (similar) topic. Yekke then asked a question about it (#710) and I responded to him in #’s 767 and #897.
If you read the thread carefully, you will see that it is clear what I was talking about.
Meno, to answer your question, I was referring to case #1 in post #488. I was specifically referring to a situation in which a moderators writes “edited due to l”H” on Poster B’s post that follows Poster A’s post attacking Poster B. I think that it is reasonable to assume that Poster A is now likely to assume that Poster B’s post was l”h about Poster A. Whether or not this is true, it is rechilus and can lead to or increase machlokes.
skald89 – so what would you say makes you modern Yeshivish as opposed to Modern Orthodox Machmir?
I’m not saying there’s no difference – I just want to understand what you consider the difference to be, and if/how it differs from what I wrote.
“ZD, I hate to burst your bubble but Rav Shteinamn is not the only gadol. Rav Ovadia and Rav Mordechai Eliahu supported aliya and Rav Avtaham Shapira, when speaking in the US, looked out and asked โWhat are you doing here?โ”
Even if he’s not, you certainly can’t accuse people of doing something wrong if they are following him. At best, you might be able to say that those who aren’t are not doing something wrong.
Also, your “quotes” from other Gedolim are not a stira. Rav Shteinman Shlita was speaking specifically about Jews from France.
Also “supporting aliya” is very different from saying that everyone should make aliya.
I “support Kollel” but I don’t necessarily think that everyone should go.
I think it’s only because of shidduchim that all these new labels got invented. “Modern Yeshivish”, “Modern Orthodox Machmir”, “Modern Orthodox Liberal”, “Modern Orthodox middle-of-the-road” and “Carlebachian” are all pretty new inventions.
When and where I grew up you were either Yeshivish or not-Frum. I thought my family was strange because we weren’t either one, but at the same time I didn’t think that anyone was labeling us, and I didn’t really see too many differences (although that may be more a reflection on me than anything else).
She was modern Yeshivish.
A teenage girl I knew told me that her school is a cookie-cutter school and she’s the leftover dough.
“Great minds think alike?’
Or maybe we are all really the same person. (j/k)
?
The fact that someone wrote something that I had been thinking of doesn’t make me a cookie cutter if that’s what you meant.
I may be many things but I’m definitely not a cookie cutter.
Also, there are other aspects to hashkafa besides “involvement in the secular world” so they may consider themselves to be hashkafically Chareidi in other ways.
I guess the main point is that if their Rabbanim are Chareidi and they are sending their kids to Chareidi schools, they clearly feel that Chareidi hashkafa is the ideal even if they find it hard to live up to that ideal (whether in their actions or their hashkafos). I do have the impression that this is a common phenomenon in Brooklyn.
I’m curious what England is like since you mentioned that you never heard of this concept before? Are there people who would fit this description? I feel like I have met people from England who seemed to fit this description more of less, but I’m not sure.