Lilmod Ulelamaid

Being a wife and mother isn’t as limiting as it sounds. Aside from the importance of being a literal wife and mother which I don’t think you need me to get into, there are many ways of being a “mother” in addition to being an actual mother. For example, a teacher is a type of a mother. If a woman understands her purpose in life, she sees everything she does as part of her role of being a “wife and mother”.

M- maybe it’s really a combination. They sense that it’s true but they need to be comfortable emotionally as well. Remember, people are complex. Almost all (or all) of our actions have a variety of motivations and are never done completely for the “right” reasons. And there is nothing wrong with that. We are human after all! And we have to involve both our brains and our emotions in everything we do.

I think the important thing is to make sure that there is some intellect/concept of truth involved. Otherwise, it is nothing more than brainwashing and if something more appealing comes along, it’s over.

Health – whether that is true or not, it doesn’t mean that 45 year old women want to marry 60 year old men.

What’s a labradoodle? Some kind of dog produced in a lab?

Geordie – +100! Nice!

Yekke – +1, especially for your second and fourth points. I was going to respond (similarly) but wasn’t in the mood so I’m glad you did. You probably did a better job than I would have.

I definitely agree that “Yeshivish” can not be defined as being in Kollel. While there are several possible definitions (it can either refer to sociology, hashkafa or religious level), it is inaccurate and unfair to define it based on whether or not someone is in Kollel, imho.

WTP – the difference is that I do seem very young for my age. Most people who don’t know better think that I am way younger than I am. When people meet me, they think I am younger because I look younger, but the funny thing is that even when people just speak to me by phone (and have never seen me), they also think I’m much younger. I think it’s because I have a youthful personality or something. What’s even funnier is that even on this site (where people can neither see nor hear me), I think that many people may have thought at first that I was younger than I was (in addition to thinking I was a boy), until I disillusioned them.

Maybe that’s why I forgot my age – because I’m so used to people thinking that I’m much younger :).

I think that this may have to do with what Mammele wrote earlier – that men age faster than women do. I think that by and large most of my friends who are around my age look much younger than most men I know of similar ages.

I have been a member (sorry, I mean participant :)) for less than a year, so you may be talking about something that happened before my time. All I know is that for the approximately 9 months that I have been here, I have found you to be one of the nicest posters as well as one of the most sincere about his Yiddishkeit! If I remember correctly, you are the one who always gives me much-needed encouragement for my shmiras-haslashon posts. I very much appreciate that!! Thank you!!!

Joseph – thanks for the information.

Mod 100 – “I do not know if I speak for all of the moderators, but I know that I do not enjoy having to reread a long post because someone edited after approval.”

Thanks for letting me know. I had no idea I was causing such complications when I stick in a comma :)! Now I know that it is not worth editing for the sake of a comma.

Thank you for letting us know that the inability to edit while awaiting moderation is a bug. Does that mean that they are working on fixing it?

I hear the logic of typing it in Word first, but the fact is that it is still not the same thing, at least imho, I can’t speak for all the posters. I’m not complaining; just explaining.

Does anyone know how much time we have to edit once the post is moderated?

I really wish that there was a way to type up posts and then save them w/o submitting so we can don’t have to submit them as soon as they are typed. That way we would have more time to think about them.

little froggie – I am afraid that you underestimate the value and koach of tefillah!

I once read the following story: A yeshiva (possibly for kids-at-risk) showed a very graphic video of what happens to you l”a when you smoke. One of the boys came away traumatized, “Rebbe, that was really scary! I am so stressed out! I need a cigarette asap!!!”

WTP, it’s not really proportional. When I was 20 years old, I did not think that 20 year old guys were old. Now that I am not 20 anymore, I do think that guys my own age are old, but I know that I have no choice but to marry someone old and I’d just prefer that they not be too old.

Funny story about that: (I don’t remember the exact ages in the story, so I will approximate): A friend of mine suggested a 40 year old to me. I responded, “Wow, that’s so old!” Meanwhile, I had completely forgotten that I was 35 years old, and momentarily thought that I was 25 years old. As soon as I remembered my age, I realized that 40 was not too old for me. Meanwhile, my friend probably thought that I was very picky!

Yichusdik – That is a very controversial approach and there are many (if not most or all) who disagree.

I listened to a tape by Rav Orlofsky years ago on the perils of doing kiruv. It was a long time ago so I hope I am not inadvertantly quoting the wrong person, but I am pretty sure that he is the one who pointed out that one should not do kiruv if it will harm the person doing kiruv’s own spiritual growth.

To the argument, “But we have to! There’s a fire out there!”, his response was, “Do you believe in Hashem?”
We have to have bitachon in Hashem that He runs the world and we are not in control. We do not and can not make people Frum. All we can do is to do our hishtadlus which means only doing that hishtadlus which is appropriate and does not run counter to Torah hashkafa. One is not allowed to do kiruv if he is not strong enough to know that he will not be influenced. One is also not allowed to do kiruv if he is not yet strong enough to give things over properly.

I happen to think that a lot of people who are doing kiruv are doing more harm than good. If someone’s hashkafa is not what it should be and they are mekarev people to be “frum” the way that they are “Frum” and they gave over an improper view of what Yiddishkeit is, they may be doing more harm than good.

I just reread your post as I was typing mine and I see that you wrote:
“And she certainly has to achieve a level of maturity to be able to convey a firm 360 degree commitment if that’s what she is portraying to this individual.”

That is precisely the issue here.

I just realized that you probably don’t understand why I told Rebshidduch what I did. It was not based on the fact that she didn’t know what to do when her student didn’t call her back. It had abosolutely NOTHING to do with that!!! It had to do with other things that I know about Rebshidduch from other threads, as well as a particular comment she made on this thread that referred to things from other threads.

Even though I started out this post by stating that your approach is very controversial, I realize now that it is possible that we don’t have a fundamental disagreement but rather a different understanding of this situation. I am going to leave the beginning of this post anyhow because: a) It could be that I was right in the first place and there was a fundamental disagreement and b) there may be others who understand your post that way, and I think that this is a very important point that MUST be emphasized.

“I was zocheh to meet Rav Noach Weinberg, zt’l a number of times. He once told me that once someone, even the most beginning baal tshuva, has learned and internalized even one mitzvah, he or she has a responsibility to share it with others to the best of their ability. If that means by example, so be it.”

That is not the way that Rebshidduch was using the term “kiruv”. There may be many ways one can use the term, but when speaking to someone who understands a term a certain way, you must use the term in the same way or you will be misunderstood. That is why I told her that she should not be doing kiruv.

“I fixed it”

Thank you whoever you are.

“Only because I reread before I press send, where I would have just posted and edited if I felt I needed to change something.”

Not sure what you were adding with this post? Isn’t this the same thing you said in the previous post. And as far as I can tell, this doesn’t answer the issue I raised in my post.

Yekke2 – you’re talking now about the immediate editing (before it’s moderated), but we were talking about the ability to edit after it’s moderated:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/new-cr-bug-reports/#post-1244549

btw, in terms of the immediate editing, I could be wrong about this, but do the posts come out clearer now and t/f easier to edit before the submit button is pressed? I feel like before they didn’t come out as clear and were harder to edit before the submit button is pressed.

Yekke – what was that in response to – my saying that whipping someone nowadays would be untznius?

“Malkus is given with a form of whip”

Thank you! That’s what I thought, but I wasn’t sure.

I think that what I wrote above still applies though. Nowadays, it would be still be untznius for someone to do even with a whip (aside from all the other obvious problems!), but the Beis Din was on a high enough level that they were doing it lishma.

ZD- my comment about technology was not in response to your post even though it looks like it. Your post wasn’t there yet when I posted.

My post was in response to Yekke’s comment about poor attentions spans. That seems to be a result of technology.

People blame technology – internet and texting, etc. for that. That would explain why it affects the secular world the most. Technology is destroying our brains!

Joseph – but at the point that you are marrying them, they are not old yet. Everyone gets old eventually but you don’t want them to be old when you marry them and you’d rather it be as far away in the future as possible. The 25 year old still has many years until her husband gets old.