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Misteryudi – you’re a lady? I thought you were a guy!
“Thereβs a whole section in the YW Moderator Training Manual about that”
I figured there must be.
apushatayid – I think it was late at night, so that’s not so practical. I think that would cause more harm than good.
25 – you’ve only been here a few weeks, and you already think it’s acceptable to put Joseph down?
okay, as soon as I posted, the number went up to 1 post!
JA – it’s great to hear from you!! I was starting to worry about you – we hadn’t heard from you in so long. I was about to start a thread asking how you were.
I don’t know what to tell you. It’s a tough situation. The best is to try to find a way to get friends who ARE good for you. You need friends, but you need good ones – not ones that are bad for you.
Sitting at home all day is not a good choice. I would suggest you continue going to school but try to stay away from these girls, and try to make other friends.
Have you discussed this with your social worker? Maybe she has a good idea.
Rebshidduch – great advice! Shkoyach!
Edited
There is 1 voice and -1 posts in this thread!!! What???
Joseph – Up to 10 years seems to be a common opinion.
I know a shadchan who seems to consider that a halacha. Whenever I ask her if she can set up two people with each other, if they are more than 10 years apart, she will nix the idea immediately and say “they are more than 10 years apart” as though it’s assur to set up people who are more than 10 years apart.Personally, when people ask me up to what age I would go out with, I don’t like to give a specific number since I don’t believe in making such hard and fast rules, and I think it depends on many factors. But if I am forced to give an exact number (for example if I am filling out an online form), I usually say up to 10 years older.
I do know girls who married guys who were more than 10 years older than them and they seem to be happy. And I don’t believe in making age too much of a factor (in either direction) unless it really bothers the person.
The only real problem I have with girls going out with guys who are much older than them is that it gives older guys unrealistic expectations and they refuse to go out with any girls who are older than 10 years younger than them (since they know that they can occasionally find girls younger than that to go out with them) Meanwhile, these guys just keep getting older without getting married and there are many girls who are still single because these guys won’t go out with them.
Avi – that may have been the case back then, but it is not the case today. The girls in every Bais Yaakov know the basic halachos of tznius. And all seminaries (BY or otherwise) teach hilchos tznius.
In one (modern/modern orthodox) seminary I taught in, the issue of tznius was being discussed at a teachers’ meeting. One of the teachers said when she administered a test on hilchos tznius, there were girls who were sitting there wearing short sleeves as they were taking the test and writing the sources about how your upper arms have to be covered!
Wolf – really? It must be the same couple – how many can there be like that?
Yekke – Very nice!
I don’t know if they are allowed to or not. I guess they’d have to ask. Personally, I have never heard of a case of a Sephardi asking if he can become “Ashkenazi”. I wonder if anyone has and what they were told.
Also, would it make a difference if he were getting married to an Ashkenazi and wanted to take on her minhagim instead of the other way around?
Yekke2 -that is a good point. I actually did point it out in another thread (albeit not in that lashon per se’) and it seems like the message was received.
Thank you.
Because you haven’t started any. Start one and then we’ll have a thread about you.
Also, because she is going through a difficult nisayon and needs chizuk.
He was talking about feeling safe. We can’t do anything about it, so there is no point in worrying. This wasn’t about expending effort.
Is everyone else now seeing all the posts in this thread the way I am?
How can I get it to stop? It is annoying!
yekke – for real or was that a joke?
“I donβt understand that Gemara at all”
What don’t you understand about it?
You are correct for distinguishing between a nisayon and an issur. In all of our above cases, we were talking about nisyonos and not issurim.
However, I also don’t think the case in the Gemara (as I understand it) is similar to our cases. In the case of the Gemara, it is referring to the issur of histaklus which can bring someone to a nisayon, but is not necessarily a nisayon for the particular person.
I have heard of a teshuva from Rav Moshe Feinsten regarding a man who has to sit next to or near untzniusly dressed women on the way to work. He poskened that it was okay based on the above Gemara. I have not seen the teshuva inside so perhaps I am mistaken (maybe someone here who is familiar with it can provide the link), but my impression was that the reason he says it’s okay is because it’s not davka a nisayon for the person. And that is my impression of the Gemara as well.
But if I’m mistaken about either the Teshuva or the Gemara and someone has sources proving otherwise, please let me know.
In our cases, we seem to be talking about things that are nisyonos for the people involved. If something is a serious nisayon for someone and they are seriously concerned about it, I am not sure that “leica darka achrina” would apply. I would imagine that this would depend on the extent to which they are concerned vs. the necessity of doing the action.
In LB’s case, one factor seemed to be the fact that she didn’t seem to think it was so necessary to do anything. If she had, I think she could have found another solution so I’m not sure that “leika darka achrina” applies.
“And if what you wrote is accurate, then he asked you to be friends and not to date towards marriage, which is a huge difference.”
THAT is a very good point. And if you ask him, he will probably lie.
Even if you do date him, which would be a terrible idea, you should still have a shadchan. Even when girls date guys that they happened to have met, they can (and should) still have a shadchan as a go-between.
bmyer – I agree with you, but what about the single girls?
I have heard that in some cases, the wives dress the way they do because it’s what their husbands want.
I would also imagine that in the case of the single girls, it’s not negatively affecting their dating possibilities or they would dress tzniusly. Maybe if more boys insisted they would only date girls who dress tzniusly, it would help.Avi K – I don’t think the issue is usually lack of knowledge.
RY – can you explain?
bmyer – for real??? How old were they when they got married?
I know a guy who is approximately negative 16 years older than his wife. When they got married, he was around 23 and she was around 39.
bmyer – oh, I guess I was feeling guilty for not qualifying my statement in case there are other opinions.
But that is news to me. Where does it say that goyim might not get Olam Haba?
thisthis
So as long as you are also doing something wrong, it’s okay if he does? And if he does something wrong, it’s okay for you to?
“Later, as a single I stopped regretting it”
and yet a few minutes ago, you wrote:
“and there is no going back unfortunately.”
Apparently, you do regret it.
rebshidduch, then you definitely need to discuss it with her!!!!!
What’s V-8?
Meno, how’d you do the color?
Randomex, there were 2 bullets.
I’ll try again. This is ul:
- this
last post was code and then blockquote cite
Just making a note for myself.
Why would someone want these?
Rebshidduch, you did not stop regretting it based on your posts.
Try to listen to your head (Yetzer Tov) and not your heart (Yetzer hara)
No one said you can’t have a boyfriend – the issue was that you did not think that he would be a good boyfriend for you.
If you do think he would be a good boyfriend (aka potential husband), why are you reluctant to tell your mother about him?
Maybe it’s Israeli Chassidim?
thisthis
There was once a spokesman for the Chareidim in Eretz Yisrael who claimed that there are no Chareidim in the US because in the US, Jews eat bagels with cream cheese and lox which (according to this person) is clearly against halacha.
I think that the Bais Yosef says that you can’t eat fish with milk, but others (I think either the Shach or the Taz or both) claim it’s a taus sofrim or something. So Litvaks hold it’s okay, but many Sefardim and I think Chassidim hold it’s assur. The man who said that was Chassidish and I guess he hadn’t learned Hilchos Basar B’Chalav so he didn’t realize that there are other legitimate opinions.
Iacisrmma – I wrote that that sentence was a joke.
bmyer – You may be right about that. I should have qualified that statement and allowed for the possibility that there may be other opinions. I actually did think that all Sefardim held that way, but after I posted, I was cleaning my sefarim shelves for Pesach and came across a sefer on hilchos Kashrus. I opened it up and on the page I opened up to it said that not all sefardim hold this way (I didn’t look up his source, however).
Joseph – This was in Israel. You are not supposed to be able to force someone to do something against halacha. If there are other opinions, then you are right. But I might not be remembering the details precisely – maybe if the guy was sefardi, they simply pointed out the issue to him.
So em is italics
ul is italics and small and thin.
li is small,thin italics with a bullet
strong is bold and italics and with a bullet.
bmyer – I agree. I definitely think there are different levels when it comes to these things.
I think that SadiguraRebbe may have thought that you were talking about a case in which both have the same assur content, and didn’t realize that you were trying to find out which one has content that is less bad.
It’s actually a good question Joseph. I wish I knew the answer.
I know of someone who had some kind of incentive program for the teenagers in her neighborhood. It must have been at least somewhat successful since I heard about it from one of these teenagers who had a lot of hakaras hatov to her and told me about something the teenagers were doing to show their appreciation.
Granted, this teenager was not dressed tzniusly (although I don’t know how she dressed before this), but the fact that they felt positively about it was a good sign.
I think that most of these teenagers need for it to be given over in a positive way, which is why this was a good idea.
I don’t know what could be done for adults. I know they have some kind of organization that organizes meetings for women to discuss and learn about tznius. I was a bit skeptical when I heard about it, but then someone who was going to them told me about it, and I had a better impression of them after speaking to her.
I think that most people who have issues with tznius nowadays need some kind of “support group” to work on it, since it clearly is not simple for them. That is probably a good idea for any middah that people have a hard time with and need to work on.
Yekke – it’s including all the Josephs
I don’t know what your society is like, but where I come from, drinking 4 cups of wine any other day of the year would NOT be acceptable! (certainly not for girls)
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Yekke2 – like that!
ΧΧΧΧΧΧΧΧΧΧ
eggrolls
grapefruitIacisrmma – I said it’s assur for me. The second sentence was a joke.
but btw, I believe it’s assur for sephardim to eat cream cheese with lox, since the Bais Yosef says you aren’t allowed to eat milk and fish together.
Sometimes in bagel places, if someone asks for a bagel with cream cheese and lox, they ask if he’s Sefardi, and if he is they won’t give it to him.
It’s an important halacha to know so that you aren’t inadvertantly machshil any sefardi guests you may have.