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in terms of avoda zara, any doll would be a problem (if you hold that dolls are a problem of avoda zara). Joseph wrote that you have to be careful WHICH dolls you bring into your home. That implies that some are okay (or better)
because it’s a boy, or because it’s an American Girl doll?
the moderators said they probably wont post shadchan suggestions. I also don’t think I know any who are the right type for you. I mainly know shadchanim who work with older singles. I would think that is something you could find out on your own.
Also, I really think you need to speak to a mentor/Rav/Rebbetzin before you go to a shadchan. Maybe once you’ve done that, they can help you to find the right type of shadchan for you.
Actually, I wrote it up here, and then cut and pasted on a word document. It may have pressed “send post” first, hoping it was good and taking into account that I could edit afterwards.
It’s much easier to do it that way.
Once you’ve done it one or two times, you get an idea of what the appropriate length is. I was clueless before I started, but now that I did it a couple of times, I feel more clueful.
Meno – who was that in response to? Reb shidduch’s last post? I think the others weren’t up yet when you wrote that, but I’m not sure.
home-baked
mishloach manos
consideration
middos
shidduchim
Rebshidduch
Coffee Room
new rules
moderation
excess
this post
Apparently, I wasn’t even successful.
lol – just had to get in the last word…
686 characters with spaces! Pretty good! I had been nervous about that one!
Lu – +314
Reuven – +1,000 – you seem to have gotten it on the mark!
rebshidduch – somehow meeting someone can be great if you happen to somehow end up meeting someone who makes sense for you (yeah, that was always my dream since I was a teenager (sigh) – I do know several people whom it happened to), but if the guy isn’t right for you – bad idea.
Your posts actually lend support to the reasoning behind going to a shadchan instead of just “meeting someone”. If you go through a shadchan, you are unlikely to fall for a guy who is all wrong for you, since you are unlikely to meet such guys. But if you “just somehow meet someone” the danger is that you end up marrying someone all wrong for you.
Shopping – wow, someone’s been busy shteiging! That subtitle’s been there for some time already. At least a few weeks, I think.
I didn’t say you shouldn’t. I just said you might want to try non-Lakewood shadchanim.
Without OO, there would be no women rabbis, so the issue wouldn’t exist.
I know you said the end, but I had in mind to write that from the beginning of the thread but I was very good and I read through the entire thread until I saw that you wrote the end.
Anyhow, it was a very important point of logic that no one else had made yet.
Okay. THE END!
Now see if you can say that quickly ten times in a row backwards and forwards.
Trolling-about-Trolls-Troll
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/time-to-go-troll#post-524070
In the cases I heard of, it was nothing like that. The grandmother had not been hiding her Jewishness. The grandchildren simply didn’t realize that the fact that their mother’s mother was Jewish made them Jewish. I think the grandmother had been hidden by goyim during the holocaust and ended up intermarrying, and the kids were brought up as christians like their father. I’m not sure of the exact details (I was a kid at the time) but my impression is that it was something like that. I think there may be many cases like that, r”l.
In any case, you are right that a sheilah should be asked regarding what to say as well as whether or not the person is to be believed.
Is the issue that he is saying that he will learn, and it is only because you want him to?
If so, that is a terrible idea. You can’t learn full-time if you don’t want to.
Or is your question as follows: He is not planning on learning full-time, and I want a learning boy, but I like him, so should I go out with him even though he is not learning full-time?
“The news source quoted, said they had a very amicable meeting. You dont have to like the source quoted, but it is a source and they have no reason to lie for this story, In fact they would likely lie against the Chazon ish , if anything”
That sounds like it could possibly be a lie against the Chazon Ish, especially if his followers claim that he refused to look at Ben Gurion.
I don’t know what happened – I’m just pointing out that the newsstory isnt a reliable source, & its reasonable to assume that it may be true he didn’t look at him, since he did consider him a rasha & that is the halacha.
“Its like so many other stories about Gedolim, Just because someone said it or heard it, doesnt mean it actually happend”
100%. That is exactly my point. The fact that the newstory said it that way doesn’t mean it’s accurate.
We have to find out what IITFT’s source is so we can determine which source is more likely to be accurate. But I suspect that IITFT’s source is more reliable.
IITFT – what is your source?
“Lilmod, if that is true, do you think I would get redt by at least 1 of the 4 shadchanim?”
I have no idea. I don’t know enough about it. But I have heard that the well-known shadchanim in Lakewood get hundreds of emails a day. So it’s hard to imagine that they are able to set everyone up.
I’m guessing that you might be better off with less-well-known shadchanim or shadchanim outside of Lakewood.
But I don’t know enough about it, so I don’t want you to rely on me. Maybe try one of them, and ask him/her if he thinks he would have anyone for you, and what he thinks your best bet is in terms of shadchanim who would be able to help you (if he doesn’t think he can).
“Winnie, then please post names of shadchanim and not boys names.”
Rebshidduch, the Mod already said that she probably won’t let it go through
Golfer -lol. I just really don’t think that the first (or second) time this new policy was enacted should have been in a response to a long post.
Wordcount = 927 characters with spaces. Yeah!!
“and if the OP is truly asking for the right reasons, as I wrote, I’ll be grateful if they included me in their tefilos”
If you meant that sincerely, that’s beautiful, & I apologize for misjudging you. However it really had sounded like you were being sarcastic, based on the beg. of your post
I understood the OP in one of two ways (or a combo). I thought he was either trying to understand or pointing out that there may be an issue. I thought the most likely possibility was that it was a combo
He didnt phrase it in an insulting way. As this is a Frum website, it seems to me that it is legit & approp. for him to express the fact that there may be halachic/hashkafic problems. The same way that people say something when they feel that s/t is kefira
And if you think it’s wrong for someone to give someone else tochacha, why is it ok for you to have responded to him the way you did? (I mean that as a ? & not as an attack 🙂
Oh, so it wasn’t just me who got clipped. So I don’t have to take it so personally… good to know..
I’m not sure that google is a very reliable source for this..
In any case, even if that is true, chances are that the Chazon Ish told people about it. Ben Gurion may have as well. So could have Yitzchak Navon.
Although the Chazon Ish is the most likely and most reliable possibility.
Whoa – I just saw my clipped post now. I suspected that’s what you were talking about but that was majorly clipped! And the point was totally missing.
I realize it was very long, but I should have at least been allowed as much space as the poster I was responding to!!! If I’m responding to someone else’s long post, I can only do so with a long post of my own.
Whatever. I have better things to complain about. Just expressing myself.
WTP – your response wasn’t really a response since you didn’t see a fraction of my post. I will try to sum up when I have a chance.
DY -lol.
Shopping – that’s why we have a new moderator – so that she can bring in new ideas.
Mod 25 -shkoyach on being brave enough to set new policies. I also like the part about discretion being used.
I’m just wondering how much 1,000 characters is?! I suppose at the beginning, I will have to cut and paste from a word document so I can use word count until I get the hang of it.
And by the way, how will you guys even know the word count??
“She could tell me so I could confirm”
So if I understand you correctly, it’s okay if she says something as long as she does so respectfully. I had understood WTP’s post differently, but probably that is what she meant as well.
Thank you.
Joseph, maybe yours was the one he kept.
On the other hand, the one he gave away might have been mine…
DY – Did you have a problem with the OP’s OP? I wouldn’t have thought you would.
I didn’t know Beis Rochel was a Satmar school – that’s why I asked.
That’s interesting because I had heard that they don’t learn Chumash inside, but maybe my information was incorrect.
“There have been Non-Orthodox Jews for about 200 years now.”
I was refering to the time period before that – that is why I wrote “hundreds of years ago”.
“There are not many Non-orthodox jews anymore in Orthodox neighborhoods. How many non-frum jews live in Borough park or Monsey anymore”
I specifically wrote that I was talking about out-of-town in the 70’s and 80’s.
“Or as you put it (And I whole heartedly agree)
So it’s not necessarily about the ideology being different but about the situation being different. The same ideology calls for different responses to different situations.
This is true for every change that takes place including mass kollel, maintaing a certain levush, Zionism etc
Which is why it is silly to say charedisim is the “default” and all other streams are changes.”
The point is that Chareidim are called Chareidim because of the ideology, and the ideology is not new. Those that wish to say that Chareidi’ism is a new thing are trying to say that the ideology is new.
They don’t go to seminary at 18 or 19 – they go at 17 or 18 and come back at 18 or 19 and start dating as soon as they come back. Most start right away. The ones that wait usually only wait a few months, so they are rarely older than 19 unless they were held back. Even the ones who were held back usually don’t turn 20 until sometime b/w September and December, and since they have been home since June, they still will start dating before they are 20. And those girls are less likely to wait.
In my day, it was unheard of to pass your 20th birthday and not be dating yet. I was the only one I know who did that (besides for maybe one other girl I knew whose parents didn’t allow her to start dating before she was 20, and I thought they were nuts).
It is possible that it is slightly different today and that you might find some girls in the US who don’t start until they are 20 but that is still not the norm (at least not in those circles which are the American equivalent of the Israeli circles
Clipped
LB – you are allowed to (and supposed to) lie for the sake of shalom. I think this would fall in that category.
Ubiquitin – please keep in mind that I was talking about out-of-town in the 70’s and 80’s where there were many non-Orthodox families in the community.
As I mentioned in that post, I don’t hear of this so much anywhere, and I think that may be the reason why.
That is one major change in the 1900’s from hundreds of years ago – that there are (many) non-Orthodox Jews. Another big change is processed food, which necessitates hashgachos, some of which may not be so reliable. Remember that most foods we eat are made by goyim in factories where many things can go wrong. That was not the case in the past.
So it’s not necessarily about the ideology being different but about the situation being different. The same ideology calls for different responses to different situations. Which is the point I tried making earlier in the thread.
Which Beis Rochel?
Yichusdik – the OP asked a legitimate question. He wasn’t attacking anyone. Your response sounds a bit harsh to me.
Sorry, LB – I forgot the most important person in this thread – our esteemed OP who showed the most consideration by starting this thread in the first-place. And who showed tremendous thoughtfulness by thinking of this issue in the first place and trying to figure out the most considerate way to make Mishloach Manos.
YAY LB!!!!!
“Why should everyone miss out on these delicious cookies just because some people won’t eat them?”
Good answer – so I was miskaven correctly.
There is nothing disturbing about people being considerate of other people whether that means going out of their way to buy packaged food because they think the people they are giving to would prefer that (as ZD does) or going out of their way to bake things because they think the people they are giving to would prefer that (as Meno does).
Boruch Hashem we have such wonderful people in Am Yisrael who are so considerate of others – each in his own way.
Joseph: “Good points, Winnie. If someone actually knew a topic better than the CEO, would he dare try to overrule the CEO on that topic?”
Joseph: Let’s say you mistakenly told your wife to do something that was against halacha and she knew the halacha? What would you prefer that she do in that situation?
Also, if you knew beforehand that she knows the halacha better than you do, would you ask her?
RebYidd – there seem to be a lot of qualifications one must have in order to be zoche to be your friend:
1. They can’t be a telemarketer.
2. They have to trust your kashrus.
What else is on the list?
“Just dont regift Prune or Mon Hamantashn. Most people dont like them”
Maybe that’s why you should regift them. Then they will have something to regift :).
More importantly, make sure you don’t regift to the sender. Or to someone who is likely to regift to the sender. Of course, you have no idea where something might end up. So best is to only regift things that could have been sent by anyone (definitely not home-baked – that would be a bad idea anyhow because they will assume you baked it, and they might trust your kashrus and not the other person’s. Also, it might be genaivas daas, since they will think that you are a good baker.)
Best to regift things that are not original like taffies or oranges/apples.
I’m assuming that you assume that most people you send to do trust your kashrus. And that combined with the idea that “it’s the thought that counts” and you consider home-baked to be either more meaningful and/or less expensive is the reason you give home-baked even though some might throw it out?
I never heard of paper football before, but it couldn’t possibly have been called football before football was invented, since it has nothing to do with feet (the way you described it), as opposed to paper airplanes that do fly in the air.
Also, since I never heard of paper footballs before, I am guessing that they may be a newish invention?
I don’t know what denizens are, so I guess you are smarter than me 🙂
LB: “Maybe they gave fruits?”
I thought of that, but that would have posed even bigger problems when we were in EY. But maybe in the times of the Beis HaMikdash, this issue (of not trusting others kashrus) did not exist to the same extent.
LB: “Maybe they purchased cookies from a local bakery that everyone used at the time?”
That would work. But I don’t know if they always had bakeries. But maybe there were always individuals who ran their own home-baked-goods business as a parnassah.