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popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Interesting rambam. I’d like to point out that he doesn’t address having children at all.
Possible that is because the pesukim there don’t address it. But still I find it notable.
I’ve read many accounts of the obligations of hishtadlus and bitachon–I don’t recall ever seeing a concept that it involves not having children.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI’m still waiting for the big talmidei chachamim here to answer
Shkoyach for the titling.
I hear your point. At the same time, I’ve never seen in any discussion of hishtadlus and bitachon that having kids is a factor, nor have I seen such an idea anywhere else.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI know. Isn’t that ridiculous? Just because one person’s friend’s friend thought I am a woman, they changed my name?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantSam: What if he is a mumar l’hachiis for a davar echod, and that davar echod is that he drinks yayin nessech.
Can he drink his own wine?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantHe’s also “admitted” his kids call him “Ima,” so wouldn’t be so sure…
I only admitted that about one kid.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantHere is the gemara, taanis 11a http://www.hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=10&daf=11&format=pdf
You can see clearly that the reason is because you should share in the community’s pain.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantwebsite is not working. I’m powering up the otzar hachochma, but I’m not as handy with that.
popa_bar_abbaParticipanttruthsharer:
Yeah, that’s when people were actually starving to death en masse. Today that doesn’t happen.
Actually, I think the reason there is because you shouldn’t be doing enjoyable things while people are starving, and it is not about having children.
I’m looking for the sources. My bar ilan is down so I’m having to do some manual learning. It’s in the first perek of taanis I think.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantyytz: So this has nothing to do with kids; it just has to do with working.
truthsharer: Yes, I think the gemara says that. And what is the reason there? Is there an application here?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantcongratulations on admitting that you are a male yeshiva bachur, for those who were uncertain
1. This story is in the past.
2. I was yentel.
3. I made up the whole thing so I could say my joke.
yoya: Sorry, I can’t explain. I can’t even say what the background is or it will also ruin it. Maybe in a couple days.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantMaybe I misunderstood your point. But I think it is a mitzva to have children, and it is not relevant how you are going to support them at all. And once you have them, if you need to take the benefits, you take them.
And I think that is the correct mindset, and I challenge you to find me a source that one is supposed to think about he is going to support kids before having them.
The question of whether one should work or not is a separate question and is the topic of other (most?) threads on this board.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantWhat is the difference between that, and ??????, the ???? saying on their holiday that someone comes down the chimney?
What’s the difference between us saying mashiach will come, and the goyim lehavdil saying Jesus will come again. Or the yennem goyim saying the 13th imam.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantEizeh shtuyot. I’ve already posted the Rambam who says that not working and only learning and relying on the public is a most honorable and noble thing to do.
Also, there is no such anti-semitic canard about jews. The canard is that we do work and do outdo everyone and get all the money. The canard you refer to is an anti-religious canard started by other jews, who in truth are very similar to anti semites in many ways.
And if everyone would do like them, then G-d would still figure out a way to feed us, as the Rambam says, that when a person becomes like shevet levi, they don’t need a chelek in the land to earn a living because Hashem is their chelek.
I have no problem with you not learning full time (I certainly don’t learn full time), as long as you are willing to keep the Torah, which includes supporting talmidei chachomim and not being a mevazeh talmid chochom.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantIt’s a book. I recall a rav told my brother he should learn it when he was engaged. I doubt he did so. But he got married anyway.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantTake care of my children? I’m sure G-d can take care of His children just fine.
You live your life your way, and look down on people for bringing children into the world, and I’m sure you’ll very smug and proud of yourself. And you’ll probably keep voting for the people who make you pay more and more of your income to me also, while I vote against them.
People who think like you should be on birth control; society cannot survive if ideas like that are being passed on.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantWIC and food stamps do not exist so that you can have as many children as you possibly can, and let others support and feed them. That is disgusting.
Actually, I think that the fact that you are reducing children to a monetary decision is kind of disgusting.
G-d has enough money to support my kids, and the fact He chooses to do so with your tax money is because you are too cheap to do what you should and give it voluntarily and happily.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantSinas chinom? It’s the truth isn’t it? You believe that the Torah tells you to live on the charity of others and learn full time rather than to work and support a family. True or not?
I do. Can’t speak for anyone else.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantOn the one hand, the Sienna is cheaper. On the other hand, it also gets better reviews. So it can be a tough choice.
I hear that. Too much gashmius.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantAnd why is it fair to the kids if they will be coming into a family with no money. Maybe ask them for their opinion.
Of course. Or why is it fair to bring them into the world at all, since we pasken that ??? ?? ???? ??? ????.
popa_bar_abbaParticipant🙂
popa_bar_abbaParticipantThis is even worse than ????!!!
???? only wanted to kill the males, while you want to kill all!
??”? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???
popa_bar_abbaParticipantAnyway, I may as well write here while I have your attention what the real real pshat is.
While the norm in pre-war Europe was that only select few learned long term, the norm in Eretz Yisroel (the old yishuv) was that everybody learned forever. The chareidim who came to Palestine after the war joined the existing community and naturally adopted its norms. This was exacerbated by the deal which only allowed them to avoid the treife army if they would learn.
Contrast to American chareidim, where the system is pretty much like it was in Europe. Among the chassidim, only a select few learn long term; among the litvaks, whoever can afford to and wants to learns long term and others learn shorter terms for as long as they want and then join their father in law’s business or join a profession.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantbesalel: Beautiful.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI’m pretty sure Hashem has enough money in his bank account to support all my children.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantWe NEVER has mass Kollel learning, In Europe ONLY the top learners kept in yeshiva, the rest went to work.
I love how you only dislike changes when it increases yidishkeit, but anything which decreases yidishkeit is good adapting to the times. I’d like to see the gehenom I’ll get from learning too much torah.
Anyway, I figured out the real pshat. And I’ll debut it in a new thread. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-real-pshat-in-universal-kollel
popa_bar_abbaParticipantActually some counts estimate over 30 Shomer Shabbos MKs, and a noticable part of all the anti-religious parties are Shomer Shabbos. This is a good sign. The fact that the leading enemy of the yeshiva wears a yarmulke is a clear improvement.
??????? ??? ????
popa_bar_abbaParticipantThis is absurd. Most people in America who have normal jobs frequently are required to work on weekends or after hours. The days of 40 hour weeks are long past.
I don’t even care what the pay structure is structured as. You know how much you are making, and now you know how much work is requried for that. If you aren’t making enough for the work you are doing, you’re free to quit (under the 13th amendment).
popa_bar_abbaParticipantThe term Orthodox is a social and cultural grouping; a way of describing a certain social group.
That is, we may share many characteristics, and those characteristics are useful to predict what members of the group do, or who will be a member of the group but none manage to define the group.
Being shomer shabbos publicly is not a sufficient characteristic. There are conservative jews who keep shabbos publicly. Keeping shabbos publicly is probably a necessary characteristic, but privately is not.
Being presumed a kosher eid is also not a necessary characteristic. I posit that I would consider someone orthodox even who was a known child molester–if he davened in my shul and sent his kids to my school etc.
It is just a social grouping; people are orthodox who identify and act as part of the group.
At some point, there could feasibly be a split among the group who currently is pretty much one large group, and it will become two separate social groupings. When that happens, probably one of them will be given a new name (I propose: Open Orthodox, to signify that they want to pretend to be Orthodox, but don’t feel bound by any of the Torah’s rules besides the social justice ones which they invented by pulling out of a horse’s tuches.)
So that’s why attempts to define are futile and irrelevant–the question is only whether they are considered part of the social group. I don’t know enough about the israeli politicians but Saul Lieberman (he should rot) was certainly not Orthodox even though he presumptively was better at keeping the torah than me besides for the dinnim of being a meisis umeidiach, which I am better at.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantMod: the female version of bar is not bas; bar is aramaic and bas is hebrew. I think it would be bros, but I need to look it up.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantProbably was practicing spins in the snow.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantIn many of the shuls I have been to, they divide the lecture into two parts, where the first half is pilpul and the second half is halacha l’maisah.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantYes, but this story has nothing to do with knowing how to go out. In fact, if the guy is a sociopath, it is better that it come out on the dates than if he is taught how to hide it.
Also, I don’t even believe the story. There is no way to go through the toll without paying (except by simply driving through, but then the machine knows you didn’t pay), and there is a very easy way to make it look like you are going through without paying–putting an ez pass in the glove compartment. Ergo, he had his ezpass in the glove compartment.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI know. The best thing to do is to go to alaska for that week.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantSo you started off with a broad condemnation of yeshiva guys. Then your grand story is a story which is clearly very rare and only happened once in your career.
Shame on you. You are being motzi laaz on an entire group, and on the lomdei torah particularly.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantThanks squeak, I guess we did talk about this already. That thread makes me sick.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantYeast alone is not chametz (nowadays they put Chametz additives into it)
?????
Yeast is a microorganism that flies in the air. When it lands on something with sugars, it ferments it. Sometimes, instead of waiting for yeast to land on our food, we take a bit of food that already has yeast in it and stick that in. Those bits of food are what we call “yeast” that we buy in the store.
If those bits of food are dough for instance (as should be the case if it is bread yeast), then I do think it is chometz.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantOf course he is not saying they will be supported by maaser rishon. Maaser rishon only goes to real leviim. But he is saying they are exempt from taxes, the army, and all sharing of societal burdens.
And of course he is saying that we are required to support them. Precisely the way we are required to support leviim–which obviously goes beyond just giving them maaser rishon if that is insufficient.
As far as acharonim, I meant you should look at how acharonim who are saying pshat in the rambam answer this contradiction; not at acharonim who are saying other opinions.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantWell, that might be so. What does clarity mean?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantwomen man dachar shemaihu
popa_bar_abbaParticipantHow to reconcile them? The most obvious way: the second quote is referring to someone living an ascetic life, based on minimal work, and not living off donations. Note that the second quote does not say that the person can completely abandon all business affairs and be supported by others.
You are misreading it if you think he is still supporting himself on minimal work, since the entire point of the rambam is to say that these people gain the status of leviim, and don’t have to join the army or any other societal burden, and are given there food from Hashem the same way the leviim are (through an obligation on us to support them).
If you want to answer the contradiction, why don’t you take a look at what the acharonim say. I’m sure you’re not the first one to ask this. I would guess out of mein boich, that the difference is whether your intention in the learning is to be paid for it, or if you are just learning l’shma and other people are giving you money like their obligation is to do.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantTincan
popa_bar_abbaParticipantFor the mitzva, you need to eat a k’zayis–that is all. Just the volume of one zayis. A regular zayis.
So go out, pick a watermelon, and eat that much volume in matza.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI don’t think he had any idea what you were doing. He was probably just curious because you were being so “black-ops”. But then he probably figured it out.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantCompletely serious. Aren’t the pictures awesome?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantThey aren’t expensive at all. Any decent school costs 50k a year.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantIt may be more enjoyable to do pesach cleaning on mushrooms. Just saying.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantSo today, I took my life in my hands, and did something totally crazy.
I went backcountry snowboarding. Alone. With no experience or training in avalanches. I did have a beacon, shovel, and probe, so I could have saved someone else, but I didn’t have anyone with me to save me. Although, I was advised that the snowpack was very stable.
I climbed up Tincan Mountain, which is by Turnagain Pass, and then snoboarded down. I hiked up for about 3 hours and 15 minutes, and then took another hour or so to get down. I didn’t actually summit, but I was only about 100-200 vertical below the summit. I had decided to turn around by 3:00, and it was that late, so I packed up my snowshoes, switched to snowboard and went down.
It was quite a hoot. Powder everywhere. Saw 7 other people. Didn’t trigger an avalanche. Midwesterner wants to come next time.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantPopa, what he intends to ask is, can you go to a bar for a mitzva date? (mitzva date – I suppose that’s when you date an older girl.)
No, it is when you date your relative. Like a mitzva tantz.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantcv: calm your liver. Nobody today thinks everybody should be learning. And indeed, not everybody is learning. If there is ever a time when everybody is learning, then we will worry about it.
popa_bar_abbaParticipant1. Of course. But I think 20 minutes you also don’t have to call. And sometimes you think you are close because you don’t know the area so you don’t know you will be so late.
2. Many people are noheig not to shave, and only trim for halachic reasons. Probably that is why.
3. If you borrow a car, you can’t always ask for it to be perfectly clean. Maybe the shadchan should supply the car if he cares so much.
4. Give me a break. Just how many hours would you like him to put in before the date–keeping in mind he probably doesn’t have internet. Maybe he should drive to all the places the day before. This is how life works; when you drive to new places you get lost.
5. This is not common at all, and the fact you include it among your general advice kind of detracts from the rest of your advice.
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