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The recent case being publicised seems to lay the blame for all that happened prior to the addiction squarely on the school system. while it may not be perfect, and they do have flaws that need to be addressed, they are not the “bad guys” who should be blamed for all societies ills.
Just want to point out that from everything I have listened to and read, even if they were placing blame 100% on the school system, which I don’t think they did, they did not blame all societies ills”, they spoke of their situation, specifically. And honestly, even though the system is clearly NOT to blame for all societies ills, that doesn’t mean that there are not situations , very specific situations, where they might be all of the problem. Most of the time the comment you opened with probably applies, that it is a result of a series of events. It would just be much easier to swallow if our school system wasn’t such a big part of either the source or the final blows.
why else did the Rov tell him *not* to report this to any authorities?
The Rov (Lila? Avi?) said not to report it BECAUSE he would take care of it. Nobody recommended letting it be.
I would hate to be the reason for a break in a family.
you wouldn’t be a reason for a break in a family if what you heard was nothing. And most abuse victims will tell you (although only way after the fact) that breaking up their families saved their lives. IF that was indeed what was needed, why in the world would you be sorry?
This is an online forum where people discuss things, Syag, so what could be so bad if we prescribe specific medication to a poster who describes his medial ailments. We’re just discussing medical concepts and offering our own thoughts and answers. Chill out.yes, that is exactly what I was telling you. Although where you come up with interchanging discuss and prescribe….which poster is prescribing meds online?
The telling piece is your initial knee jerk cry of mesira, in a situation that should have elicited a concern for a potential victim your cry was for a potential abuser. Try reeling that one back in.
Ah, so we pasken pekuach nefesh shailos here
equating discussion and opinion with paskening? Interesting twist…Do you also prescribe medication
?????
Do I prescribe medication even when I do have all the information? Ohhhhhh, you mean do I discuss medication? Sure, if someone told me their doctor prescribed Vicodin for a hangnail I would probably discuss it. I can imagine having lots of questions and opinions on that.What exactly was your point?
oh Joseph you are so cute and entertaining! Rav shlita. Cute. For all you know his Rov is Avi Weiss. Or maybe Rabbi Lila Kagedan.
Big surprise here—this is an online forum. People bring up scenarios and other people discuss them. We rarely have “all” the information, and in instances like this where the OP disappears after his first post (leaving the legitimacy of the story in question) we have even less info. But posters are discussing the concept and other posters are answering those posts or bringing their own thoughts.
Chill out.” He seems to take a picture of it all with his eyes and store it in his mind.”
exactly. And for those on the spectrum with difficulty sorting Important vs unimportant facts, this can be a very overwhelming amount of information.I remember sitting at that conference when Temple Grandin explained that theory, it was shortly after she published the book by the same name, and it was such a lightbulb moment. It helped explain so many things about the way I process information, and tangential thinking (to you it is a separate topic, but to me it is part of the same ‘picture’).
You don’t call 911 if a neighboring couple has Shalom Bayis problems where they get into a shouting match every 3 weeks, as the OP described
He didn’t say 911, he suggested shomrim or police. He also never said neighborhood couple, shalom bayis or shouting match. He said raised voices and shrieks. You seem to have a reference point of that being a couple ‘interacting’ but it could very well be any loud or out of control family member and any other family member including a small child.
His Rov is correct.
You have no idea if his Rov is correct or not because you don’t have anymore information than anyone else. Even if he has to adhere to his Rov’s instructions of allowing the Rov to address it (which is NOT the same as leaving it be) you still don’t know if it was correct. You just like to be caustic.
quoting myself:
” we would have to teach them to visualize a scene so they could describe it. So many of them could not“chabadgal- Thanks for the topic! I am surprised they say so few people have it because many of the children I worked with who have learning disabilities have trouble visualizing anything. When trying to teach them to write (stories, not letters) we would have to teach them to visualize a scene so they could describe it. So many of them could not, or they could only visualize an item, but not a scene.
Oddly enough it is the very opposite of the way people on the spectrum think. Temple Grandin calls it ‘thinking in pictures’.
wow, someone might be getting hurt and there are posters here calling it mesirah to get police, How telling. When you hear someone say they hear shrieking and want to call the police your Yiddish heart and head should worry that a Jew needs to be saved, not that a potential abuser might get in trouble. I can only wonder what you would say if I told you I found a boy being abused by his teacher…r”l, would you worry about mesirah before worrying about a neshama being destroyed? Oh never mind. You’ll just tell me it didn’t happen.
“We never ‘babyproofed’ our home.
Setting and teaching boundaries early and watching the children closely avoids most problems.”Same
avrum – As I understood it he said that he didn’t baby proof, then he said that he had to make some changes because of changes in the building codes which are similar to what you would do for baby proofing.
That is obviously not what he found appalling, and comments like that are very unfair. Ive have been the victim of those as well and it is very hurtful sometimes. When someone makes an emotional statement and it gets twisted just enough to make the post look petty it’s not right. If you disagree, just say so.
Amazing and heartfelt. I am always so inspired and recharged when I hear such powerful thoughts coming from someone so young. May Hashem continue to help you grow and to guide you toward your other half b’sha’a tova!
benign – thanks for the explanation. I apologize for thinking otherwise.
benign – I don’t think anyone said it was common. And usually when people add such adjectives instead of retaining the original claims it is to degrade instead of question. Not sure why you feel that would be necessary.
” I have never heard of a single such case in North America.”
this is a bit of an odd response. Exactly how many of the schools in North America do you have such intimate relationships with that you would be privy to such goings on? I’m pretty sure if it went on in my own kids school I wouldn’t be informed unless, as was the case, I was close to the girl’s family. I also happen to have shared breathing space (tho not by choice) with people who make those types of calls/demands/threats.But other posters seem to have no issue with the credibility of such a story. Why not?
Because some of us have seen stuff like this happen. Nice for you to assume we are just rotten cynical menahel haters but guess what? That attitude is what rubs dirt in the faces of these girls. It is bad enough that some girls get this treatment, worse is people writing posts about how it couldn’t possibly have happened and we are just bashers and hockers.
Please stop contributing to the problem.
Wolf, I have to strongly disagree. I think your argument is 100% correct when people say that they saw a bunch of jews littering and went off, or they had one rebbe who humiliated people and they went off. But I think this is very different because this was a place that teens with questions could come for advice and answers. If someone in that mashpia capacity represents and teaches Torah in a certain way, they can do tremendous damage to a healthy teen. the mashpia acting out may not send a healthy teen off, but lectures, answers, schmmozen can certainly send people off. While Joseph likes to pretend someone can spit acid in your face and spread love, the truth of the matter is that our greatest, greatest gedolim NEVER treated people, Torah or halachos that way. Period. And that is because those warm and loving (though harsh when need be) Gedolim were representing Torah, and living Torah, and loving Hashem, and loving his brios. But those who hate, teach hate, and teach that Hashem hates, are perverting Torah true Judaism and turning people away.
sushi (or ever)
bbqed pulled beef.the thing I find funniest about these discussions about people having the chutzpah to learn torah and be poor when they should be working and be self sufficient is that I have very few working friends who are self sufficient. Many of my friends who are either not of the hashkofo that would be in kollel, or just chose to be working learners are living paycheck to paycheck, or not even. They have good degrees, in some cases both parents do, and some have or had good jobs as well. But that isn’t what decides how much money you have and I find it highly disheartening to hear the overwhelming lack of bitachon in the comments. You think you aren’t on the madreiga to say, “I will sit idle and Hashem will provide” – I get it. most of us aren’t. But to be so blatantly unaware and say that your income is based on your choices of education and employment? Ha. Haven’t yet seen a shred of evidence for it. And you can be sure Ive seen plenty. I know who comes to me to pick up food because their high positions aren’t quite the assurance people here want to imagine they are.
How ’bout this. You do what is best for you, and the next guy does what is best for him. And if he qualifies for food stamps and that helps him learn or supplement his employment funk, so be it. Stop saying (or thinking) you are handing him your money. As far as I know, if you are living the same Torah I have been learning about for five decades, you haven’t a clue.{end rant til the next post}
” I’ll believe those who are so worried about another mabul coming when they spend even half as much time condemning chamas as they do about this”
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RY – nobody was talking about books.
and to say reading non-Jewish blogs skips the most problematic content is ridiculous. I’m sorry you are even willing to read that stuff let alone defend doing so.your comment is what is not different. You know good and well what kind of garbage, nivel peh, l”h, kefira and apikorsus you can be exposed to on blogs written by people who usually wont even post their names and with other no-namers posting. There is no halachik freebie for that type of exposure and just because there are many (maybe) “good channels”, that doesn’t excuse you.
Say what you want, if someone writes a blog and Joseph is going nuts defending it and singing it’s praises, I would worry.
And Joseph, every time (at least four or five in my memory) you want to say something positive about frumteens you reference that one article. I have always held that if a person can only bring one concrete example over and over again to prove their point, it is sorely lacking.RebYidd – sure thing, just like television
Shopping – HI! hope you are doing well and keeping your nose clean 🙂
I don’t know much about frumteens, and I don’t read bloggers blogs for obvious halachik, hashkofic and spiritual reasons, but I have to tell you that Joseph’s endorsement worries me. I am familiar with his version of “kiruv” and how destructive it can be. I looked at a few videos of that Rabbi when Joseph used to quote frumteens a lot and I found him quite unsettling. Please be cautious and find out more from people you actually know in real life and trust. I don’t know if you are the “friend” or if you are just working together but please be careful. People have a tendency to want to tell people what they want to hear to keep them from being turned off, and that is not Torah. and some people want to throw it smack in your face and call it truth (“Shabbos!”) and that isn’t Torah either.
Hatzlacha in doing whatever is right.ZD – a studio? Where does Zahava sleep?
1. Yes, it is an option in regard to free choice and secular standards
3. not true at allZD – that really has nothing to do with the point. Did you understand what I was saying?
I think it’s more important not to eavesdrop.
ZD – I am not exactly sure what you are saying. If I understand you correctly, you are saying they stole millions, not just 10,000.
Two responses: The six figure amount was the total of several years of monthly stipends plus insurance. that can add up to a ton even if its only a small amount a month.second: that isn’t what the arrest was about.
I heard it straight from Rav Pinchas Schienberg zt”l himself. In reference to the unlicensed playgroups and businesses “There is NO heter for breaking the law!”
I got the impression from the way this thread was going and the article on the newspage that we were talking about people who couldn’t make ends meet underreporting their income to get funds and programs they had trouble doing without. While I still see that to be lying and illegal, that seems to be a misrepresentation of what the case is really about.
ubiq – I LOVED destiny and Journeys! I probably know every song on those albums by heart but I doubt I would be able to tell you which album they are on.
I loved Yanky and Shabbos and got myself a copy even though I was single and in my late teens. I didn’t let my kids listen to it tho because of some poor ‘middos modeling’ in the script but I played the songs. Baruch learns about Shabbos is another great one that we played a lot over the years.
in regards to this comment:
it is a form of singling out, and we try as much as possible to avoid doing that. .you may be unaware that the reality is that your child’s name will come up frequently, every week for several years, when requesting, purchasing and packing snacks. I think requesting an entire school to accommodate a child, and then expect the child not to be singled out is a lot to ask.
For my part, I always did my best to make sure it was not presented negatively, but the result really depends on the child and their needs.“I also didn’t get it at first”
because it is a lie invented in a place where “if I personally don’t know of it, then it doesn’t exist”
Even hearing it from other mom’s doesn’t change the opinion because we are an invisible faction with misbehaving inflexible kids who are only that way as a result of our poor parenting skills and some terrible infraction we must have made in a past life.
We get this all the time.Who said anything about eating alone? And why in the world would you direct that at me when I specifically said that they should NOT eat alone. And what is the point of having a conversation when people can’t respectfully read what you say before throwing comments back in your face. I never said eat alone, I was the one who advocated for mental health but was shot down, not always kindly, for thinking a child mental health held a candle to a physical ailment. I stopped reading the posts back up a ways and have no intention to start if I am not only ignored but then afterwards accused of saying stupid things that I not only didn’t say, but advocated against.
”
So you have no problem having a kid eat his lunch by himself, while his friends and classmates get to eat together? Do you think that’s good for that child? ”Cute, suddenly emotional health is important! lol. What is emotional health in the face of a physical danger (to paraphrase almost all the above posts)? Are we worried about him feeling….inconvenienced perhaps?
In our school, those kids have the privilege of choosing two or three friends a day to have “special lunch” with them in the office. Yes, it actually is very good for that child.
Shmiras Haloshon – exactly. Parents have very different reasons then many of others on the bandwagon. That is a totally different conversation. I do want to add, just for additional reference, when I feared for my child’s life/safety, I couldn’t even imagine sending him to the place where the danger existed with hopes he would be safe. This has NO bearing on what I think YOU should do, but I wanted to give you reference.
“There is no other alternative that I’m aware of. ”
thanks. nice to hear after mentioning a couple that have worked successfully in other schools.
Shmiras Haloshon – Amen! I think you are 100%. In your situation where there is an actual child with an actual peanut allergy and educated, responsible parents made an intelligent decision instead of an uneducated trendy, feel good one that is the way to go. As an tiny aside, I mentioned carrying the epipen for the quicker access to the adult who finds her, not necessarily the child.
B”H your daughter was saved, she should have good health and a long life!
I thank you for telling your story and I thank you for illustrating my point. You were willing to try it the other way first, but it didn’t work for your daughter and you asked that things change. That does not compare in any way to total bans on schools as a general rule. But I also must add that we insist the children have their epi pens on them, for the very reason that you experienced, which would have saved your daughter much suffering. With or without a ban, I do not believe a child with severe peanut allergies should ever be more than 5 feet away from her epi pen. We have the kids carry them in waist packs or a small ‘tik’. While I fully understand why a ban may be necessary in your case, was there an equal stress on making sure your daughter had her epi pen available at all times from that point on? And if not, why not (I ask because the parents and staff I work with did insist on having the student be primarily responsible for her health plan) Again, if this wasn’t contributed to a discussion on peanut bans in schools I would never think of asking these questions, I would just thank Hashem your daughter is well and thank you for sharing your story. And I do wish her, and you, good health ’til 120.“i think schools should have peanut safe zones,”
They do, and it works, but why bother going with that when it’s so much easier to just dictate your needs to hundreds of other kids instead
Sports aren’t an inherently dangerous activity.
are you sure about that?
Some people have heart conditions that don’t allow them to participate in sports, much the same as some people are allergic to peanuts
that’s just silly. Why insert comments like that into this discussion?mw13- based on your reasoning I think we should all make up our own chumras about health issues and just start enforcing them. Because even if they are overkill, or found not to be the core cause or even the solution, if a bunch of posters in an online forum think it makes sense to them – by golly run with it!
Syag, it would help if you could explain your reasoning.
I thought about that, but I had already gotten enough push back about the idea that there even *could* be a reason so why risk it. When I said some people have a legitimate reason the response was that they are entitled, they have undisciplined kids or possibly bad parenting skills, or they are making a big deal out of nothing because of course it can only be nothing. To put it out there and get those types of responses would be a bit too harsh for me. It is a painful topic and not one people are real open to being empathetic towards.
judging their parenting. assuming that if a kid isn’t coping it must be their parenting. If a kid needs certain accommodations (except of course peanut free zones) than they must have weak parenting. It’s not about “ruchy only likes pb&jelly”, and I still don’t know why you think I would argue a point if that was all it was about.