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So? If a ban minimizes the risk
Yup. If.
so basically it’s not just assumptions but some serious judging. I will just assume Gd gave you different challenges, count your blessings.
iacisrmma – if a peanut ban was the only solution, I might (but I doubt it) feel differently. There are too many options, working options IN PLACE, that do not involve requiring hundreds of kids to make changes to their food. Why refuse to try things that work? Why refuse to try ways that are proven to accommodate every student instead of just one or two? And here’s a newsflash – many times ( it may even be most) the peanut emergency is NOT because of a missing ban but rather an ignorant, uninformed, poorly trained or irresponsible adult.
its very funny that you see a connection there. A parent working out his son’s eating issues in his home is a raya that his son can go without peanut foods at school. Sure, makes sense.
Be a parent.
Bingo! exactly the lack of understanding I assumed would come next. (if I understand you correctly to be wrongly assuming it’s a parenting issue)And what if we were having a serious conversation and you thought it was okay to be funny
I bet he would work it out because he probably doesn’t value one of his kids over the other. Parents are often able to rise to just these types of ocassions
iacisrmma – wow, thanks for the mentchlich post. In all honesty, I wouldn’t feel safe enough to even begin to describe the issue in this setting seeing the nasty comments coming from even mentioning there is one. I will say though, that this line, “that this does “somewhat” limits the snacks and lunches that are brought to the school” is a big part of it. For some kids it does not somewhat limit their snacks, it eliminates them.
I keep writing and erasing, trying to explain, and honestly I can’t bear to do it. Too many ignorant people, the types who tell the childless couple how much tuition they are saving. Sorry, can’t risk it. But it IS real, whether GH, and a nameless other from a separate thread want to allow room in their reality for it or not.
If someone came up to me and said that the new uniform regulations were destroying their kid, I know that MY response would not be to tell them they were entiltled, lazy, putting others in danger or anything else. I would tell them that I can’t even imagine how that could be true and ask them to either explain, or just plain accept that people have struggles I don’t even know exist.
I was assuming you had read the comments and were responding to them. I think that most of my frustration (as always) is due to posters who are unwilling to leave their daled amos and accept that even though THEY can’t understand the issue, there might still be one. To me, and MANY others who are acutely aware of the ill effects the peanut ban has on some kids/families it is like walking up to a childless couple and telling them how lucky they are to have all this quality time together. And then patting themselves on the back for their support and empathy.
I no longer expect others to get it, but I have been shocked at how vehemently and condescendingly some people (less then a handful thankfully) can be toward someone else’s struggle just because they themselves don’t have the capacity to visualize it.apushutayid – thank you for being the first person to actually put it out there (albeit with a derogatory tone) that there might actually be a reason. Funny how that seemed to get by everyone else.
In answer to your question I will ask you a question (ultimate Jew) – You have ‘known’ me quite a while. If there wasn’t a serious and legitimate issue, would I really be arguing about this?Chardal- I think your response is displaying more ignorance than you realize. You may want to get out there and see what happens in real life outside the dictionary and websites. That information sounds nice but doesn’t hold water to real life people.
GH- you know what really is pathetic? pulling that ‘if it was your kid or grandkid’ garbage. You haven’t a clue if it IS my kid. You have the chutzpah to say we are lacking empathy when we have come up with several possible solutions that actually are IN PLACE and WORKING in many schools to accommodate peanut allergies when YOUR response to our claim of suffering on the other side is to call us entitled. What a chutzpah. Do you have the decency to even wonder why, ask why, think that there may be a valid reason? What double standards! Maybe I should wish on you a child (or even a grandchild!) who suffers the other way and then, when your eyes open and you learn what the word empathy REALLY means there won’t be a hole deep enough to bury yourself in!
“Not worth litigating further”
Absolutely correct. Until someone is willing to stop considering ‘the other side’ to be seeking entitlement rights there is definitely nothing to talk about.
And for the record, it is not your place, nor anyone’s to decide that physical health and emotional health are not congruent.“that might inconvenience a few parents whose kids like PB&J sandwiches for lunch ”
this line seems to be your misunderstanding of other people’s struggles. And if you take a step back and realize that it implies that someone would argue on this because it is an inconvenience for them is highly insulting. Obviously there is a piece you are missing/not open to hearing.
and i’m telling you that you should have the kind of relationship with your rav where you wouldn’t have that problem
then maybe they need to work on themselves a bit.
zd-
People love to say how Chumras are great and dont see the back side of them. Some people do erase the lines between Halacha and Chumra and mess everything up and it is a bigger problem than some are willing to admit.
see, here’s the problem. I agree with you, and always have, that making too many chumros and presenting them as halachos is a problem and can do damage to chinuch and to people who find out there was a misrepresentation of a chumro as Halacha. But then you always go that one step further and make comments alluding to chumros being a problem in general. People who make no chumros and live on the fence are prone to find too many kulas as well, which you should also be complaining about. I found that to be a problem as well. BOTH are a problem, though hard to get some to admit it.
Telling you Rav EVERYTHING that is pertinent is very important
telling the rov everything is indeed very important. Agreed. But sometimes it has been phrased here in a way to imply that you should tell him so that you can get a weaker ruling. It’s more an attitude deficiency than a presentation of facts. My rov, actually, will usually ask me my feelings since it is important for the ruling.
ZD- that’s not what I am referring to. When someone discusses a halachik topic, there are people who come on saying, “Oh that’s just a chumra. I know five people who got heterim for that when they told their rav they get headaches thinking about it” or “don’t forget to tell the rov you are sensitive, he may paskin differently” The idea that comes across to some people is that Halacha can be manipulated or relaxed if I REALLY don’t want to do it or THINK I can’t or maybe just because. It is a slippery slope to people who are feeling overwhelmed by life and instead of getting help (any type) to learn balance, they start to key in on all these loopholes. Or even if you don’t want to call it a loophole, we don’t window shop halachik advice. I have read even here that you should go to a different rov for different types of things when that is not at all appropriate for Halacha. And someone struggling with that may latch on to that and run with it.
does that mean nobody should talk about anything or bring up that there are different views on things ?
NO!!!!! It doesn’t. But there are some topics that are too prone to damage. And there are a lot of people using online forums to find good loopholes and excuses that they didn’t even know where there and then they grab them. This really is a different topic altogether, and I know we have discussed it before. Just trying to clarify that I wasn’t talking about any situation like you mentioned above.and by the way, I’m a marmoset
ubiq- thank you. I like your post too much to bother dissecting it (with comments, not rebuttals).
I think part of what I was saying, besides what you touched on already, is that I don’t enjoy controversy or arguments (I would never make it in the bais medrash). Five years ago I could bring up a topic, and how I reacted to it ,and how I felt about my reaction, and I know that I would get empathy, chizuk, differing opinions and probably different ways to view the situation. To me, those discussions were what I was looking for, needing, appreciating from my anonymous online peers. If the response is to assess and comment on my thought, or politicize the viewpoint, I may not take it personally but I won’t find it enjoyable or purposeful. It won’t fulfil any personal purpose. Which is my own reasoning for not sharing, but on certain subjects if I know someone ELSE will share, EXPECTING that chizuk and empathy on such a personal topic but might not know that they may end up with a slam, I worry about THAT person.
And on the other hand I am concerned by the laxity of some posters who will condone free choice in areas that the Torah does not allow. (As I have seen do much harm to friends who visit other ‘jewish’ websites)
I don’t know if this is clear. It’s hard to explain these types of emotions. I am guessing those who experienced it themselves may know what I am talking about.
thanks again
meno – exactly. you seem to have amazing insight.
golfer – YES!!!
ubiq – great point and there was a time when I would have agreed with you completely. I used to post very personal thoughts here and always felt like it was just the place for that. Things have changed though and I couldn’t see myself risking it. Lately it seems expressing different views, or differing views results in being called judgemental, not frum, negative etc. If I think women should have choice I’ll be a torah hater and a feminist. If I say it isn’t the women’s choice I’m closed minded and judgemental. No, I just don’t see it that way anymore. but I do agree with you completely that there was a time when you would have been right on the money.
it’s not about judging when someone doesn’t like a question or doesn’t feel it is appropriate for the CR. I don’t need to judge you favorably because I’m not judging you at all. I just have an opinion on what I believe to be appropriate topics to discuss in mixed company or online and what potential pitfalls I forsee.
I’m not really sure what the point of such a question in such a forum would be. Obviously women who feel that way about something so unbelievable personal aren’t going to bare their souls here, and if speculating becomes judgemental, what good can come of that? This doesn’t sound like a good question for mixed company, let alone anonymous mixed company on the internet.
I thought it was great!
Via is not coffee grounds. Coffee grounds don’t dissolve. Instant coffees are coffee made from coffee beans and then dehydrated into coffee concentrate (simplified explanation)
Via is an instant coffee.these public-school-is-a-good-alternative comments are very disturbing to me. That’s so nice to say it’s free and that he will know he is different but it is naïve and silly. A boy attending public school is sitting among girls wearing very low cut tank tops and short shorts in warm months and pajamas on pajama day (we had that once every few weeks). The teacher is not always wearing too much more than that, though she might. The girls sing. A lot. The teachers sing, they attend PE together and chorus, music and drama. singing. He may tell the girls that they shouldn’t touch him, and maybe they will remember that. So instead he will sit and watch them touch his classmates instead.
I could go on, but id rather not.
Anyone thinking of sending a healthy child to public school when he does not absolutely have to be there is doing a terrible, terrible thing!like I said before…totally obsessed
Absolutely not.I learned that non truths at a levaya hesped bring tremendous suffering to the mais. That may be one of the reasons that tsaddikim will forbid a hesped.
frightening indeed! you should see what he did to the guys who didn’t want the signs!!
Seriously tho, I hear your point but I stand by mine. I work in a school district that is largely minority and non-papered immigrants. They spend a lot of time talking about trump being hateful and we had seminars on how to help the kids deal with someone so hateful in office. then someone got hold of these signs and everyone hung them everywhere.
But their hate when I said I didn’t vote for Hilary was frightening. and SEPERATELY from their reasonings behind it all (if you can please here a SEPERATE point) don’t accuse of hate if you are hateful. I yell about it here in the CR all the time (well, used to). you want to criticize, feel free. You want to insult, go for it. But don’t knock someone for the exact thing you yourself displays, and don’t display the exact thing/behavior that you are knocking someone for.
(this is not about politics, it’s about human decency)
“now you say the signs weren’t at your workplace?”
you: Was he from your workplace
me: no, and neither were the signs
no, and neither were the signs. different workplace, same camp.
I hope you don’t really think that they are sending it anywhere….
I ask this question all the time. so painful. I agree that calling on Hashem and strengthening your emunah is all that’s left…..
Darn, was so hoping he was a Clinton guy….
I work in a place were there are anti-trump signs everywhere saying “Hate has no home here” in several languages. this must not count as hateWhat’s ebay? Is that a store in boro park?
Getzel -thanks so much for bumping this! that post made my day!
” If the conversion was invalid, you must make that fact public so that others don’t intermarry.”
And I have NO doubt in my mind that that is your “lishma” in this case and has been all along.
“brush up on what the Chofetz Chaim says one is permitted and even a mitzvah to say about a regular repetitive sinner who commits his sins publicly. ”
Love this. the diligence in this particular mitzvah of denigrating a sinner reminds me of the 17 year olds who are also extra diligent in their observance of the “ad d’lo yada” mitzvah.
How bout the rest of them?
I have very strong doubts that the “denigrating” is as boundary-less in it’s application as you wish it to be.When my phone calls get dropped I assume Hashem wanted me to rethink what I was saying. When my email fails to send I assume it needs editing. I just made a list of 5 times where Joseph says the exact same thing over and over but in different words after saying that he doesn’t talk too much about them. Guess Hashem felt it was a waste of time defending myself as being right never matters here.
Joseph – I’m torn between wondering why you keep bringing the same four events up over and over in other threads as well if there are SOOO many to choose from , and wondering why in the world you are so over focused on the intricasies of the kushners lives. whether its in the news or not, who said you should be/need to be reading it. Why are you so obsessed with them and what they do?
Your casting aspersions is despicable and an insult to every American, myself included
ew. I think defending such a mius, amoral and self serving individual is much more despicable and insulting.
I think it’s total bogus. who wrote that letter anyway?
doesn’t add up. and it’s a sad way to push an agenda, I don’t know the politics, thank Gd, but these women don’t deserve this.Not sure if you are looking for a community or a shadchan or both but oorahs rebbetzins program might be something to look into…
oh sure, someone posts to a group of frum people asking if they should be deceitful and a bunch of frum posters advise it. My filter must be broken – seems a lot of halachically inappropriate garbage is coming thru
I dont know him, but have no reason to believe that he doesnt enforce his standards
I am more acquainted with the situation at hand then you are, of that I’m sure.Those sound like two very different angles, not sure exactly how that can be reconciled but I will say that I don’t have to be any “more acquainted” than speaking to a rav and someone in the kashrus agency (separately) and getting the information I was given. That is what Daas Torah is for. If you didn’t have a reputation for being so straight, I would assume that being so heavily involved and NOT knowing this to be true would imply you are making it up.
Brave of both of you to anonymously take pot shots at someone
Pot shots? when daas torah says that there are serious problems with a hechsher giving over the information that posters need to GO VERIFY IT themselves is not a potshot.
I remember at one time decades ago there were brownies individually wrapped for lunches or snack that had a triangle k on it. at one point we were told that we could eat them while so-and-so (don’t remember who) was covering that plant because he followed higher standards of the places he checked. That would be two people with differing levels. When that mashgiach said that the plant had to get used to him showing up instead of just calling in, that is no longer a “different standard of kashrus”.
Regarding present day issues – go check it out for yourself. Annonymously or otherwise is irrelevant, I go by a rov, not the CR.you seem to have missed the point. The comment wasn’t a permit to degrade someone, the comment was in regard to why you may not know that it IS permitted. And the whole point of my second comment was that instead of posting stories online that will be distorted, told over incorrectly and possibly have additional people thrown in when someone vaguely remembers the rabbis name but not really it is best to go get the REAL information from a TRUSTED and HONEST person IN the industry. Perhaps the reason the mods let it thru is because they are privy to some of these facts as facts and know it needs to raise a question.
Please look into this a bit more thoroughly before jumping in to this particular situation.
You don’t know that he doesn’t, and you don’t know that he didn’t. If you have questions, go talk to some honest and reliable people in the industry, the information is not difficult to come by.