🍫Syag Lchochma

you said I probably listen to music he doesn’t approve of and im asking you what basis you would have for such a statement.

when you say “music that you don’t approve of” instead of saying inappropriate music is that your way of trying to justify listening to that type of music or minimizing the inappropriateness of it?

interesting. i guess i was really having a side conversation. I didn’t consider the impossibility to be my point, i considered that to be the given premise, and my point was that you can’t just open your doors to people because you have a policy to opening doors. period. i believe you started this discussion saying that we have no business turning people away, as if opening doors is a shita. I believe the shita is being smart and protective. Sometimes that allows for open doors, and sometimes it doesn’t. I was arguing the “blanketness” of your viewpoints, not about whether or not syrians can come in safely.

“Now in my mind, while true the above is still not much more than good old fasioned anti-semitism. “

i prefer not to disagree with the same person over several threads because it gives the impression i am just randomly picking on you but — i really disagree. i dont think you can decide that a valid point is also anti semitism. maybe its just valid. while i have no doubt i will be misunderstood (and not sure i really care these days)i think the large frum communities are unfortunately unrealistic about the (handful of) negative effects we unfortunately make on our neighbors and when they are complained about we like to accuse them of anti semitism.

clarification: While i would much rather live in a homogenous town, it would have to be a law abiding, litter free, every-driving-the-speed-limit town that sparkles and screams kiddush Hashem. if not, it does more harm to us than good.

most games we played were played “wrong”, except that that was the right way to play. We altered games for shabbos use or to be more to our liking and we stuck with those rules.

i could have told you it was red.

sdd – i totally agree with your last post.

ubiq- i never understand why people do that. I told you twice that i don’t want people to suffer but that i won’t compromise security for bad feelings and yet when you come to the last line, you decide i was saying osmething that would totally contradict myself. Why wouldn’t you stop and wonder what it means, or give it a moment thought, instead of assuming i just made a statement to contradict myself?

back to the topic – when i said i have no problem with “that”, how did you decide that “that” refers to suffering when that wasn’t mentioned?

ubiquitin – you ended my quote with sure we should be “getting to yes”…”

I’m hoping you heard the rest of it, which I believe is pretty important. it is that getting to yes will probably never actually reach yes because I don’t think anyone believes that all the security will ever be in place. And I have no problem with that.

ubiquitin – you were asking which part of the OU statement do we disagree with, if any. Correct?

i agree with it because it states what i was saying, that we can be sensitive to the plight of refugees, but we cannot become idealistic and agenda-istic and ignore the fact that there may be some very dangerous people among them. sure we should be “getting to yes”, but that doesn’t mean we will ever get to yes. i hear the OU stating that we want to take them, but not without good security/screening measures in place.

glenview (do suburbs count?)

i do have that attitude…toward the innocent syrians. but that still has nothing to do with the issue at hand. you cannot confuse attitude with action here. feeling a strong desire to allow innocent syrians in because we were in the same situation cannot blind you to opening the door without discretion.

i have NO idea what the right thing is to do, but you appear to be discussing attitude with people who are discussing action.

i am also not sure that they came in that way. it is possible that some of the immigrants looked toward dishonest means to support themselves once they got here but they certainly did not come here with hundreds of thousands of dollars available to them to fund their endevours here. Nor were they part of networks.

i have a very hard time listening to people draw a parallel between the refugees in the 30’s or the syrian refugees today.

it has been declared that the influx of refugees will be a trojan horse to bring in some of the most ruthless terrorists we have in existence. does that mean that no syrian’s should come in? No, but it means you cannot compare their immigration to anything in our history.

and dont kid yourself, the same people who say you cannot close the door on refugees just because known ISIS members are among them, will also tell you you cannot monitor them, background check them, put surveilance on them etc because then we are discriminating and profiling.

I do not hold these beliefs regarding regular refugee-immigration issues, but to stick to liberal platforms and wave the “Jews were immigrants too” flag is beyond propeganda.

Tell me which one of those lice infested Jews coming without suitcases, money, or resources was a known physical threat to the community he moved into?

sandusky (Ohio)

<hands over ears, running away>

AHHHHHHH!!!!

“but on another forum I’ve been numerous times privately commended for expressing Torah opinions that were unpopular with the masses that many folks felt but were afraid to publicly express lest they fall out of favor with the crowd. “

1) i have trouble believing such a thing is true. and anyone who would commend posts with such extreme views delivered so bluntly and sometimes harshly is someone who’s hashkofos probably forbid them from being online in the first place. so how much weight does that carry. Also,

2) perhaps that explains why I have found so much of what you post to be cut from other websites. You seem very knowledgeable, why resort to “used” conversations?

NCB – while not involving myself in the details, I am sorry that you have to end up apologetic. Those who are asking for civility are expected to be completely civil. Yet those from whom you are requesting civility only need to point out your faults. that makes me sad. what you brought up was a pretty important point and a big deal to many of the posters who are of similar mindsets (regarding the style, not the topics).

oh golfer, i would rather talk about gefilte fish than zionism for sure. i would rather talk about almost anything then zionism. i would rather sit thru a lecture on physics concepts that have been found to be no longer relevant to modern day science then listen to people talk about zionism.

would i rather eat gefilte fish then talk about zionism?….yes. I guess i would.

neville – i like what you are saying and can relate. I find myself in the middle but it’s more because i detest and object to the mode of expression of extremism chosen by so many, regardless of the stance i take on the subject. i truly believe that the mudslinging (to put it too kindly) has done much less for their cause than the facts. vehemently opposing people without maintaining dignified social rules seems to make the point disappear faster than gefilte fish on a friday night (in Monsey).

popa has a good point – i think we should each just post brief statements of interest to ourselves, and the next poster will do the same. I’m certain it will be a fascinating read.

after all, NOBODY is going to change my mind or opinion about ice cream.

one of my kids was in a situation that sounds very very similar. and his move was not what he had been hoping, so I totally get what you are asking and I would recommend getting out. It is way too hard to be a “light unto the nations” at your age. You need a group to be a part of, not to lead.

I totally agree that you should leave, either back to where you were, or to a different place that might suit you better. If i understand correctly, he didn’t kick you out, it just isnt always a good shidduch and sometimes a new place gives new life.

we actually just started a brand new place where I live for people who are very serious but arent looking for the Telz mehalach (the other local option). Gd willing it will grow into another midwest option for people who want what you are describing.

Why thank you for asking! It says that sometimes we live our lives without noticing the avak sheker in some of the things we do or hear others say they did.

Along the same lines of telling cashiers your 13 year old is 12, buying air conditioners with the intent of returning them etc. lots of things that people seem to feel comfortable re telling without feeling horrified by the sheker involved.

If even half the things you attribute to me were actually what I said or meant I would not only be distraught but shocked.

Absolutely. Being aware of dispicable middos is one way to keep yourself from being accustomed to them. Distancing oneself from sheker is a torah obligation, sorry you seem to find that a problem. I find that horrifying as well.