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Lior/joseph I’m not sure I would be proud to be the OP of this post. You claim “on a point that I was aware but slipped my mind – the horror” But the elementary statistics “slipped your mind” isnt a side point, it is the thrust of your OP
-ubiquitin
MArkblik. So Dovid Hamelech was a zionist too. Nu?
Fantastic DY Thanks again
Thanks DY
I think the Shoel umashiv held the copyright ceases after death
ZDad after the War of the Roses the Families of York and Lancaster merged to form the Tudors. Both of which were direct descendents of William the Conqurer. Considering all the inbreeding in that family, Elizabeth is a direct descendent among several different lines (Obviously not “ben acher ben”)
DY, Why do you need two Minim?
As I commented on this thread
“Lior bagels (plural) are two items. You dont need to berachos or even two minim (though lol DY) You need two manos = portions. Assuming a bagel is a portion, two bagels is a perfectly valid shaloch manos. See Mechaber 695:4 where he identifies “shtei manos basar” as a kosher Shalach manos.
That being said, as discussed in the kezayis thread, generally we dont try to fulfil mitzvos to the bare minimum, as the mechaber explictly says in this case “vechal hamrbeh lishloach lerei’eim harei ze meshubach” “
Sounds like one portion to me.
You need two Manos, two ice cream cones should be ok.
Lior, your opening post shows a profound lack of understanding regarding statistics
“Isn’t it amazing? If you flipped a coin ten thousand times the odds are unlikely that there would be within a small margin roughly the same number of heads as tails.”
If it is an even coin the odds are extremly likely that the spread will be close (not exact) 50/50
As PAA points out over a short period you will get a wider distribution, and this is in fact the case (OF course short period is relative given an infinite number of coin flips 10,000 is a VERY short period)Though short period isnt the best term, few number of “flips” is better and this is the case. Consider a couple that has 2 children over the course of a year (or so) it obviously is not unusual if both are boys or girls, we see that often. But as the number of flips grows the closer to 50% you’d expect as in fact occurs. Even every year the number of “flips” isnt small in the U.S. alone it is around 4,000,000. And as expected it is near 50/50. But if you break down that statistic by State/County/City/Neighborhood/Block etc… You will find a wider spread in some areas (like the couple that had 2 children both boys) that “even out” over the long run.
Lior, be very careful. Your definition needs some tweaking. See Remah O.C. 554:17 and M”B there
Google is your friend
“Self-hating Jew is a pejorative term used to allege that a Jewish person holds antisemitic beliefs” (Wikipedia)
what happened last year at 14, did he ask you if he can get dressed up? Did you help him make a costume?
If yes to any of the above, I think it is time to loosen (not cut) the cord
OOmis To be clear I love michael savage. I listen to him whenever I get a chance I heard both the MBP and autsim discussions live (I never heard him on the IDF as OP mentioned, thats why Ive left it off.
As Goofus correctly points out he is there for entertainment I find him very entertaining. Stupid and uniformed but entertaining nonetheless.
That being said I second Goofus’s point to you
Lior bagels (plural) are two items. You dont need to berachos or even two minim (though lol DY) You need to manos = portions. Assuming a bagel is a portion, two bagels is a perfectly valid shaloch manos. See Mechaber 695:4 where he identifies “shtei manos basar” as a kosher Shalach manos.
That being said, as discussed in the kezayis thread, generally we dont try to fulfil mitzvos to the bare minimum, as the mechaber explictly says in this case “vechal hamrbeh lishloach lerei’eim harei ze meshubach”
OOmis he did in fact say that verbatim. You can hear him on youtube if you’d like.
you say “then he shows an abysmal ignorance of what autism is. OK.”
So that is at the very least MBP and Autism that he is ignorant about, and yet doesnt hesitate to forcefully and assuredly share his opinions on the subject. This is not the sign of an intellectual.
you then try to reinterpret waht he was saying. He said nothing of the sort. He said (quote) “…I’ll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases…” He was not referring to a few brats who have a diagnosis that is rushed on them.
(Although of course afterwards he claimed it was “taken out of context” Though the only context his stament would be ok in is had he said “Only an ignoramus would say Now, the illness du jour is autism. You know what autism is? I’ll tell you …”)
Ive often wondered about this. My theory is that the Jewish market isnt big enough for a small niche establishment. Subways is limited to subs (obviously) they also have a “healthy” flair thus no cole slaw no french fries etc, their simply isnt a big enough market for this. There are very few truly niche kosher restaurants consider: Chinese stores arent truly “chinese” they usually carry sushi for example.
Just a theory.
OOmis
This is Michael Savges view on Autism:
“Now, the illness du jour is autism. You know what autism is? I’ll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it’s a brat who hasn’t been told to cut the act out. That’s what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they’re silent? They don’t have a father around to tell them, “Don’t act like a moron. You’ll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a [edited]. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don’t sit there crying and screaming, idiot.”
Ive never met him in real life. On the radio most of what he says is gibberish. You recognise it when it is about a subject you know a lot about, ask yourself what kind of person would speak so assuredly about a topic he obviously knows little to knowthing about and if you really think he only did it that one or two times that you recognised his ignorance.
To be fair if I had to speak for 3 hours straight every day no matter what whetehr or not their was anything new to report, I doubt I’d be able to speak inteligently for even an hour, obviously the bulk of what he says on any topic is ignorant gibberish.
Ironicaly while he does not believe in the existance of Autism (see above). I recently heard him say he thinks there may be somehting to the vaccine/Autism link. (I dont have the exact quote). A perfect example of what I refer to in my second paragraph. Not only is he an ignoramus, he is an ignoramus who disagrees with himself. And again, to be fair, if I spoke for 3 hours day in and day out on any topic no matter how little I knew on the subject, you can bet youll find self contradictary stamnets, as well.
DY
Ive heard I forget from whom, (Ive heard it on a few occasions)the line between MO vs charedi being primarily over 3 things:
1) Zionism
2) Secular education (outside of parnasa)
3) Daas Torah
A fourth which is probaly less than the the first three, but is probably evolving
4) Role of women
To me this seems like a good line though obviously not absolute.
Golem Gorilla
“if Michael Savage were to run4prez he would win the presidential election hands down. “
Do you really think so or are you egging Health on?
(As an aside, You do not need to copy/paste entire conversations in your thread. To respond to a specific poster please just call (i.e type) their name. To respond to a specific point copy that point and that point only, not the entire back and forth exchange. Thank You)
Heres anothe Pesach related minhag that makes (and always made) zero sense:
Some avoid using any utensil that fell on the ground over Pesach.
Should those who have this minhag abadon it as a “minhag shtus”?
DY, Granted. My point was “a valid reason” is partly in the eyes of the beholder (I realize that is not what my previous post says at all).
Was it a real concern that somebody would ask for carrots and his friend though he menat yeast? Seems doubtful.
Or take a much better example. Kitniyos, the standard (unviersal?) minhag, among Ashkenazinm is to avoid Kitnioys at all. We treat it stricter than the chameshes minim which we do eat, obviously, as long as follows certain guidlines. Yet the minhag is to avoid rice cakes even if it just had rice and water, was shemira meshas nitiyaysan etc etc. This makes absolutly no sense.
I’m sure you or somebody else will come up with a “rational” explanation that it is a gezeira or a geder of some sort. which brings me back to my point. Rationality of minhagim is (partially) in the eyes of the beholder to me treating kitniyos as more chamur than wheat is completely irrational, to another it might make sense
What I meant with my original post was that minhagim based on a specefic societal concern, are (arguably) by definition irrational as minhagim (in the sense of the elevated status we give the term MINHAGIM as oposed to say mere cultural custom). Or put another way they arent really minhagim. LEt’s take a made up example. The town of hutzenplotz was very muddy so the minhag was to wash of their shoes before stepping into shul every day regardless of season. Should hutzenplotzers keep washing of their shoes even during a dry summer in a modern environment. I could hear a case made either way. and that is precisely my point.
DY
Arbitrary with minhagim is hard to define. Consdier PEsach, Some avoid Carrots becasue the yiddish word mehren rhymes with yehren (old word for yeast). Should their descendents who dont speak yoddish practice this minhag in a day and age where even (most?) Yiddish speakers dont call yeast yehren. And even if it rhymes so what?
Many minhagim in practice today no longer have or never had a ratonal reason. We follow them becasue minhag avoseinu beyadeinu.
OOmis, he knows as much about politics as about Judaism. Yet he is equally confident in his knoledge of both. The difference is YOU know more about Judaism than politics so you can call out his ignorance in one and not the other. He should stick to nutritonal ethnomedicine MAYBE he knows what he is talking about there (I don’t know enough to judge)
KJ chusid you say:
“you have to understand that Zionism caused the total secularization of millions of Jews it happens to be that individuals within there state which became frum not due to the state at all but due to private efforts your forgetting if not for Zionism millions of people wouldn’t have been become frei in the first place”
This is a myth. The haskalah started before zionism. Assimilation was in full force well before zionism. In fact Zionism was a shift TOWARDS an embrace of (a form) of Yidishkeit. Herzl was compleyl secular he favored a complete rejection of Yidishkeit. A first. However asfter Dreyfus he changed his mid and favored an acceptace of a form of Judaism. Granted a very watered down cultural/nationalistic form. But Zionism wasnt a rejection of Jewsih Religion, quite the opposite it was a rejection of assimilation. The evil Neturei KArta misleadingly passes off Herzl’s prezionist writings as his view all along. This is not the case.
Lior simchas torah 2005 was particulary leibidig
I’m confused As a KJ chusid dont you agree with PBA?
I know it is a bit early, but I wanted to share some marei mekomos I came across last year in the Mesifta Hagada.
first a recap, the discussion began about size of a “kezayis” and somebody brought the obligatory kvetching about how hard it is to eat modern day “kezaysim”.
I pointed out strictly mesevara that the discussion regarding size of “kezayis” always struck me as starnge, since a kezayis is the MINIMUM amount needed to be considred an achila. It isnt a goal to strive/struggle towards. There is something wrong with the sizing if eating a kezayis is a struggle for a normal person.
I maintained that the Mitzva is eating matza period. As all mitzvahs there are techinical (sometimes critical) halachas, minimum shiur: kezayis, maximum shiur: Achila Gasa, time frame: Kedei achilas pras etc etc.
I didnt bring any rayahs since this seemed obvious to me. There is no Gemara that brings a limud how much Matza needs to be eaten, like any achila (both mitzvos and issurim), any less that a kezayis simply isnt called eating.
DY and Sam2 pointed out that the implication of my statment is that there is a mitzva/hidur of some sort to eat more than a kezayis a notion they disagreed with.
Here are some marei mekomos:
Rambam 6:1 is mashma this way. He says “there is a mitzvas aseh to eat matza period (literaly)…once a person has eaten a kezayis he is yotzeh yedei chovoso” He does not say There is a mitzva to eat a kezayis matza.
(Diyuk brought in moadim uzemanim)
Bach brings besehm Maharl that all eating matza leshem mitzva is part of the mitzvah.
Kehilas Yaakov kidushin siman 34 brings the same idea besehm the shiltos and brings many raayas (Its actually a very nice read, though I dont own a kehilas yaakov so i havent seen it in a while now)
mamale please dont eat windex
Lior just so your question.
Yes absolutly. Grownups should act like grownups and not spend on kiddushim they cant afford. THat is what the takana should be, I have never heard that shmooze, the shmooze is always the way you describe, that is backwards.
BMG = Beth Medrash Gevoah NOT Gevoha
If we are bringing Gemaras I can also play the Gemara game. B”K 27b.
bottom line is my comment was to Goofus who said “”if you feel wronged you shoudl go to the courts” Al pi Halacha this is not correct In fact the very lashon of the siman in Shu”a where this is discussed is “Keitzad Oseh Din Leatzmoi” or “How a person can make judgment for himself”
In my first two scenarios there is no question the fellow can take his item back. The last case is arguable. Rema in the above siman bring Mordechai in Hamaniach as a yesh omrim that would arguably assur Lior’s action, (I only say arguable because I’m not clear on the difference between taking the item and another item. I will have to see Mordechai inside, it may be the case that in a store with an ssigned value to the item, it would be allowed)
However the first two scenarios are without doubt alowed. and Goofus’ assesment, and your blanket disagreement are wrong.
flatbusher
“I say limit the kiddush to cake, schnapps and soda like the old days.”
No way I say add more!
to be clear: I am not forcing you too, if you dont want to Gezunterheit. I dont either.
Don’t limit what other people do though, that isn’t nice
DY
Arguably.
In this case, In a store where everything is for sale the items lying around all have a monetary value.
Put my wallet case aside for a second. Say Lior was shortchanged $5 which he watches the cashier slip into his pocket. Can he tiptoe around the cashier and pull his $5 out?
Can he take a different $5 from the cashier’s pocket?
I think most would agree Lior can do both and there is no need to “go to courts”
Do you disagree? Does anybody?
Taking a different item, say the cashier’s sunglasses that Lior estimates at $5 is trickier. So we can leave that aside.
Now in a store, say he watches the cashier slip the $5 into the register.
Can he take his $5 back out?
Can he take a different $5 bill out?
So far it is no different than the above. The only scenario that could be different is if the cashier is ripping of Lior and Lior is taking money “back” from the storeowner. I am assuming that isnt the discussion at hand (Either the cashier is the storeowner or the cashier seems to have made an honest mistake and isnt pocketing the disputed $5)
Again I assume we agree that Lior can take his $5 back from the register or a different $5.
Do you disagree? Does anybody?
Now in a store i would argue that Lior can take the sunglasses that have a $5 sticker on them. There is no estimation of value that is the value that the storeowner is assigning the sunglasses. Lior IS taking $5 back
Do you disagree?
This thread Reminds me of the old joke:
Guy puts up a sign “Fresh Fish sold Here”
Somebody walks over to him and says obviously there Fresh saying Fresh seems like your hiding something.
So he changes it to “Fish Sold Here”
Someone else says of course they are here where else would they be?
So he changes the sign to “Fish Sold”
To which somebody says, ofc ourse you are selling them who would think you arwe giving them away
So the guy changes the sign to “Fish”
Finnaly sombody says No need for that, everybody can smell it.
So he gets rid of the sign
Goofus
If I grab your wallet from you and claim it is mine. Do you really think you have no right to grab it back, that “if you feel wronged you shoudl go to the courts”
Why is this different?
Rema, more so than arguing about it?
yayin R’ Moshe says YD 1 11 Specificaly that it is not Ubechukosehem lo seleichi (He doesnt mention darche Emori as that is irrelevant to the subject at hand) He does say that it is Bitul Torah. Is that what you meant?
Um yayin it is entirely relevant to the subject at hand Germany is so opposed/horrified to their past that the very movement/party is illegal, it is illegal to even deny the holocaust. The Holocaust education in Germany exceeds that of Yeshivish schools. They (as a Government and nation) utterly reject the Holocaust and the philosophy that led to it. Does that forgive what their ancestors did? Of course not! and if the thought of using a mihele oven or driving a BMW makes you uncomfortable, by all means dont.
Rema, I’m sorry are you trying to make sense or are you just proving that your position is based on emotion and not logic (which again to be clear is perfectly okay).
If you have a coherent point, please elaborate
Yayin I dont follow why would you consider giving a kkk member money?
Do you mean buying something from a kkk members granchild? If it makes you uncomfortable then dont as ive said regarding buying from Germany.
You do realize every illogical comment is furthering my point that avoiding german products isnt driven by logical factors.
Rema, im sorry what? Esav and yishmael are allied in the torah? Where? And how is that relevant?
Rema, Alot more. I’m sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about! Were in alliance when? Do you mean the Mufti and Hitler? why you talking about alliance I thought you said the Muslims will kill all the Germans thus being mekayem our mitzvahj of Michyas amalek which according to using Lior’s “logic” means we have to kill all descendants of German Nazis (though not Ukaranians, Austrians, LAtvians etc for some reason)
Genders can mingle at any party (Chasunah Purim etc) Dont even need a party can be at shul.
Its not a violation of darkei ha’emori.
Oh and personally poppers.
um yayin Nazisim is actually illegal in Germany.
I’m not saying not to boycott I’m in fact defending the boycott. I’m saying that it isnt based on logic. If ou feel an emotional nee to avoid Germany (and only German for some reason, and not all German products) By all means go ahead. Im pointing out to Z-Dad that he shouldnt point ot logical falicies with your boycott since it isnt based on logic. I am commiting the same error, case in point somebody used a mitzvah from Hashem michiyas amalek to defend boycotting Germany. Sombeody else is appointing Muslims as shliach (?) to kill the Germans (He doesnt ellaborate where/when that will happen) I ask you are these statements logical?
Lior. Mazel tov. Are you saying michiyas amalek is a “mitzvah sichliyas” that you would have come up with on your own? Are you saying we have a mitzvah to kill all germans? Please elaborate
Z-Dad
boycotting Germany isn’t a logical decision. There is no logic in boycotting a country based on Something their parents/Grandparents did. And to that end why just Germany? The Nazis had many eager helpers Ukraine, Poland and certainly the Baltic countries should be boycotted too?!
Rather it is an emotional decision. Thus asking questions based on logic makes no sense
yayin
“And if the storm would have happened the mayor would have been just as wrong, just no one would have complained.”
At least youre being consistent. Fair enough.
Are you always opposed to mandatory curfews? What about a hurricane? What about mandatory evacuations in cases where wildfires/tornados are headed towards a city?
“I love conspiracy theories.” I love them too, I find the mental gymnastics people go through in an attempt to deny the obvious fascinating!!
Um yayin ONLY a kindergartner would be upset at that.
A grownup would understand that usually dark clouds indicate rain and if ones in a while you are wrong their is little harm in coming inside for a while. All the more so when in this case there was still a significant snow storm, just njot quite as bad as they (ie the meterologists) predicted.
Keep in mind your complaint really falls apart when you consdier would you criticise DeBlasio if the strom did in fact materealize? I assume not. Why not? In both cases he is doing the EXACT SAME thing Based on predicitions he is given.
I’m missing a few steps in between your short timeline
In your analysis
You are skipping a few steps
1.1) Meterologists predict a small storm
1.2) Mayor exagarates the effect of the storm knowing in a day he will look like a fool
Is this what you say happened?
yayin
Not quite he repeatedly said based on “predictions”.. “likely” etc etc. And even in a sentance or two where he didnt say it. Everybody above the age of kindergarten knows weather predictions are based on models that oftn change. Meteorologists aren’t guessing, nor have I ever heard them claim to be God. When you see dark clouds overhead and you say “Its going to rain” Are you claiming to be God?
At any rate Now i am really confused. Are you saying he deliberately over played the storm as a “distraction from the police saga,”? If so Seems risky considering a day later he will be exposed as a fool, and and how does that fit with “hoped to come out looking like a hero,”?
Your last post isn’t coherent. blaming murders? I thought we were talking about a blizzard
There is a lot of nonsense in this post.
Lior and yayin yashan: You do know that the mayor does not predict the weather, right?
The metereologists predicted a catastrophic blizzard. Do you expect the mayor to say, nah they are probably wrong the Ribono shel Olam really controls the weather. Is that what you would have said?
curious yenta, Did you really think the meteorologists are in charge of the weather?
Reb yid it isnt illegal for someone who doesnt speak English (or speak at all) to be Presdient yet we both know it isn’t happening anytime soon. Being Muslim effectively disqualifies you from being President (probably being Jewish too)
kfb, nothing charlie said (in this post) remotely resembles “blind following” or even sticking up for Obama. All he did was poke holes in nonsense complaints people have against Obama. Are there legitimate complaints sure! That isnt what this thread is about. It is precisely about nonsense like “Obama is a muslim” or “plays golf” or “He was the first president to have put his feet up in the Oval Office” Let me guess you believe he is the first to use a teleprompter too