Yaakov Yosef A

All you need to do (and all you really can do) is compare existing brands/items and choose whatever can reasonably be expected to give you the best ROI. Try using resources like Consumers’ Reports and other independent reviewers, or for big items talk to repair workers and ask them what really lasts and what doesn’t.

ujm said – It is only applicable to Yehudim; not to shkotzim who calls us Jews sonei yisroel.

Google ‘circular reasoning’ and ‘no true Scotsman’. (If you even take yourself seriously, something I think is questionable…)

AAQ – I’m referring to the probability of one’s being Jewish altogether, something ‘ujm’ ridiculously challenged. (Although technically חזקה is enough, like by almost everything else.) Any pre-Haskalah/mass assimilation maternal yichus is equal in this regard, whether you can trace your GGGM to Sanz, or Vilna, or Aleppo. (The latter probably being even better yichus.) The Gemara you refer to is concerned about the (albeit remote) possibility of other forms of פסולי יחוס.

To extend your logic, I think, good middos is the only sure sign of good yihus, and opposite – of opposite.

Absolutely correct, but it’s not MY logic, it’s a Gemara in Kiddushin 71a, which is brought להלכה למעשה in detail in Even HaEzer Siman 2. So, don’t be משתדך with trolls…

ujm said – Unfortunately, you on the other hand, on your maternal side is quite short and has strong indications of gentile blood.

200 years is short? Anyone who can trace his maternal yichus to pre-Haskalah times (so can I, to chassidim of the Divrei Chaim in Sanz) can basically be 100% certain that he is a Kosher Jew. On the other hand, the Shulchan Aruch (Even HaEzer Siman 2) based on the Gemara in Kiddushin says clearly that one who habitually accuses others of being פסולי ייחוס is HIMSELF suspect… Especially if he is argumentative and שונא את הבריות, i.e. a ‘troll’, which is an indication of guess what type of blood… Aside from the fact that there is an actual Halachic איסור to make such a claim, even as a joke. Look it up, it’s all there. If we had a בית דין with legal power to do so, you could be put in חרם for making such a statement (Yoreh Deiah 334, 43) as in real חרם, not online flaming. Seriously, get your act together and get a life.

AAQ – Well, for purposes of the opening question of this thread, it would be advantageous to claim descent from a slave owner. I think we can agree that f there was anything to gain financially or legally by claiming such descent, anyone who could would come running, regardless of skin color, or under what circumstances his great-great-grandparents met. My main point actually was that the whole ‘reparations’ discussion (the regular one, of ‘blacks’ claiming reparations from ‘whites’) is inherently flawed, and just a cover story for racism. If descendants inherit guilt from 160 years back, why should that guilt follow racial lines rather than genealogical lines? It is documented that Kamala Harris is a descendant of one of the most notorious slave traders (not just an owner) of 18th century Jamaica, but that didn’t stop her from playing the ‘white guilt’ card against Donald Trump, who has no known slave owners in his ancestry.

ujm – למאי נפקא מינה? If we still have to fast on Sunday then we are still in Galus, geographic location notwithstanding. If you are referring to the אתחלתא דגאולה crowd, they also fast on שבעה עשר בתמוז (I have more friends and family like that than you do, so I can vouch for that if you don’t think they do…) There are many מעלות in רוחניות and עבודת השם יתברך to living in Eretz Yisroel (for the right reasons), that have nothing to do with Zionism, ׳אתחלתא דגאולה׳, etc. There are also people who are referred to as ‘Religious Zionists’ who DON’T believe in the State (as opposed to יישוב ארץ ישראל itself) as ׳אתחלתא דגאולה׳. You probably haven’t heard of חרד״ל or חבקו״ק, nor have you visited the ‘Hilltops’… They aren’t big fans of guys like Bennett… (Certainly not of Lapid or anyone further left, who aren’t even ‘Zionists’ at all.)

Contrary to popular belief, the ‘Emancipation Proclamation’ only affected slave owners in the Confederacy. Slavery continued to be practiced in Delaware and Maryland for more than six months after ‘Juneteenth’. The reason for that was because it actually was legally impossible to free people already enslaved without amending the Constitution, because it infringed on the ‘right to property’ of their (at the time) legal owners. In other words, ‘ujm’ is actually correct (legally, not historically). After the Civil War ended, the states passed bills paying compensation to the slave-owners, and Congress amended the Constitution, ending slavery in the United States. So, this issue was real, but it was dealt with already. The ‘Emancipation Proclamation’ was done by invoking the President’s wartime powers as Commander in Chief, which do include the ability to confiscate enemy property to further the war effort. (This involved treating the Confederate States as an ‘enemy’ entity, which was also legally tricky.) The connection to the war effort was to encourage the freed slaves to take up arms against their former owners and undermine the Confederacy. (Something that did happen to some extent.) BTW, all this belies the Liberal revisionist history that sees slavery as the main reason for the Civil War, when it was actually primarily about State versus Federal power (which was the hottest political issue for the first 80 years of the United States, and still reverberates until today.)

As AAQ pointed out, Jewish New York goes back to the mid-17th century. The first Jews sailed in from Brazil about a decade before Shearith Israel was formally founded. BTW, New York was a major trade and financial hub (and the first capital of the new United States) long before the Erie Canal (which, together with the railroads, made Chicago into a major transportation hub). This is the story of Galus ויחנו ויסעו. Parts of Europe were home to huge Jewish communities for close to a millennium. Bavel/Iraq was the preeminent Jewish community for almost 1500 years straight (from יכניה מלך יהודה until רב האי גאון), and remained a major center of Jewish life for another millennium until the 1950s. Almost nothing remains on location from either of those, although the Talmud Bavli, Rashi, Tosfos, Rishonim and Achronim etc. live on with us forever. Remember that in Germany in the 1920’s Jews had more rights and opportunities than anywhere else in Europe. There were some pesky political extremists with antisemitic views, but who took them seriously?

AAQ – According to the Rambam (and everyone else for that matter), the main job of Moshiach is to bring about a מצב of כי מלאה הארץ דעה את ה׳, where all of כלל ישראל will be keeping the Torah perfectly (including in middos and בין אדם לחברו), and even the אומות העולם will behave themselves in a normal and peaceful fashion. That being accomplished, there probably won’t be much need for ‘government’ in the sense we know it today, because basically everyone will be doing what they’re supposed to be doing voluntarily. Why Shmuel Hanavi was not happy with the request for a monarchy is actually not a סתירה to the above at all. They asked for a מלך ככל העמים, i.e. muscle power, Make Israel Great Again, etc. To that Shmuel Hanavi said ה׳ הוא מלככם, i.e. a רוחניות leadership of נביאים (supplemented in the גשמיות department by ad hoc שופטים) is obviously better than that, unless a king and standing army etc. is necessary, which it may not have been just yet at that time. The מלכות of Moshiach will clearly be of the ה׳ הוא מלככם variety, even though Moshiach will hold the title of king and will (בפשטות according to all our מקורות TTBOMK) wield absolute power over all of mankind. At any rate, it isn’t our problem to give suggestions what will be then. The Rambam cautions against trying to predict the details of what will be and how it will be. The Ribbono Shel Olam can take care of that, and rest assured that it will be very very good.

AAQ – An interesting question whether every yid nowadays is a tinok shebnishba. Consider posters here. Regardless of which side of every argument you take, you would agree that half or more of the posters are confused in their learning. Even people who went to Jewish schools are not protected from misunderstanding of core concepts…

You are making a crucial point, which is central to the whole concept of לימוד זכות. The Chazon Ish (among many others, and the basis is in Chazal) basically held that the מידת הדין works in proportion to the degree of clarity a person is expected to have given the sum total of his circumstances IN HASHEM’S EYES (not qwerty’s or ujm’s). So, when we had a בית המקדש, people could be executed for some עבירות, even at age 13. Not now. Certain things are מורידין ולא מעלין, but unless someone is trying to physically kill someone ר״ל (or forcibly do certain other issurim), we don’t do that nowadays. We don’t whip people or put them in חרם anymore. So there are actual Halachic ramifications to the reduced מידת הדין. None of this is meant to condone any non-Kosher behavior of any kind or degree, for ourselves or others, but we certainly don’t need to GO LOOKING for people to be מבזה and criticize. ‘Go looking’ as in out of your own daled amos… I also don’t get why people are so excited to yell “there is punishment!” etc. Of course there is. Are all these chevrah so sure of their own tzidkus that they want to ‘wake up’ the מידת הדין ר״ל? Chazal teaches המוסר דין על חברו הוא נידון תחילה. Who needs that? And to do so NOW, when millions of Yidden are in real danger, is just vulgar and insensitive, and according to the Chafetz Chaim (based on the Zohar) downright dangerous. So who needs these debates?

ujm said – Rav Ahron Feldman shlita made his comments as a public statement, ltoeles harabim. How could you possibly not care?

No one automatically has to be מקבל anything that any given Rov says, ברבים or not, unless he is his Rov/Rebbe. Otherwise, what do you do when two different Rabbonim/Rebbes/Roshei Yeshiva take opposing positions on an issue? But to be מבזה one Rov, because another Rov criticized him, is a very not Kosher thing to do, and כלל ישראל has suffered from this sort of thing for centuries. שנאת חינם doesn’t mean without ANY reason, just that in Hashem’s eyes the reason isn’t good enough… If you and ‘qwerty’ and friends are so sure of yourselves that you are doing a ‘mitzvah’ of ‘rebuking reshaim’ (anonymously and from the comfort of your home, no sweat on your part), then be well and enjoy…

You guys don’t seem to get my point. Yidden are being killed/wounded daily, and you @#$%&! don’t have what to worry about except hocking a chainik about Lubavitch or Zionists or who cares what. Get a life.

ujm wrote – Rav Ahron Feldman shlita called out Manis Friedman as an am haaretz who is spreading heresy. Do you disagree with Rav Ahron Feldman?

As I mentioned before, I really don’t care either way. It isn’t my place to judge any Yid, let alone Roshei Yeshivos or Rabbonim of any kind. If Rav Ahron Feldman holds something Rabbi Manis Friedman said is problematic, then let them meet each other and discuss it privately. Why do I need to be involved?

All of us have more important things to work on in our lives than this. Its just more fun to fix others than to fix ourselves…

qwerty613 – I wasn’t referring to the similar statement in the Gemara in Succah, but to the Gemara in Eruvin סה עמוד א, and before you jump on me from the מסקנא לכאורה of the סוגיא there, note that no one understands that Gemara to mean anyone is פטור even from תפלה, rather the whole thing is בדרך לימוד זכות, with the average American Jew today with zero background being שיכור כלוט in the רוחניות sense… The idea being that due to the ירידה and הסתר פנים of Galus there is less מידת הדין on those who were already נכשל, making it easier for them to do Teshuva, not חס ושלום to give anyone a היתר to go do aveiros רחמנא ליצלן. That should be obvious to any Frum person, if not for the anti-Lubavitch שנאה that causes some people to look for anything they can find. Let me ask you a question. Do you seriously think that Rabbi Friedman is advocating eating treif of doing other aveiros? Does he eat treif? Does he serve treif in his Chabad House? Or is he working to bring Yidden back to Yiddishkeit, despite whatever background they may have? And the bottom line, which you ignored twice – Don’t take my word for it, ASK HIM WHAT HE MEANT. What is so hard? If you didn’t do that, there isn’t any היתר to call him a kofer ר״ל, or to otherwise write לשון הרע about him. So much מחלוקת could be avoided by simple common sense. It’s hard for me to understand how people who are presumably upstanding Frum Yidden can read through the articles about what is going on here, with graphic pictures and video, and then move over to the ‘Coffee Room’ for the next round of name-calling and שנאת חינם. Do you need to hear the explosions from your house in order to care?

Both of them , I would suspect are closer and therefore are more knowledgable about the real shita of the SR .

I don’t think for a second that any of the Satmar Rebbes would be in favor of Yidden of any type being killed רחמנא ליצלן, so there must be a different pshat both in the שיטה, and in the episode you mentioned. At any rate, now is not the time for debates and criticism of Yidden.

qwerty613 – The Chazon Ish (who’s Litvish credentials can’t be challenged) said basically the same thing. Our job is to be Mekarev Yidden, not to judge them. The Ribbono Shel Olam already has one Satan whose job it is to accuse people for their aveiros. There is no need to volunteer to be his assistant. That (according to the Zohar, brought by the Chofetz Chaim) is the deeper meaning of the posuk-לא תשא שמע שוא meaning loshon hara, in order that – אל תשת ידך עם רשע not to assist the רשע הידוע, i.e. the Satan – להיות עד חמס, because on his own he is only one עד and by ‘joining’ him there is now a full eidus ח״ו. PLEASE, NOW IS NOT THE TIME FOR THESE STUPID DEBATES. Do it as a זכות for the millions of Yidden in serious danger now.

Yankel Berel – I am not in the business of judging other jews , not whether they are destined for olam haba , nor on anything else.

I didn’t think you were, and I agreed with your conclusions on the למעשה level. My only point was just to clarify that krum hashkafa can in fact be a big deal, even without qualifying as ‘halachic heresy’. But אין הכי נמי, it isn’t our business to judge that for others, only for ourselves.

I only attempted to isolate the so called krumkeit of Z . and thereby arrive at a correct valuation of the extent of that krumkeit.

I got that part. To that I responded that contemporary ‘Zionists’, who are almost all of the Religious Zionist sort, encompass a wide range of people. Some of them are very krum, and many maybe not at all. Today’s Israeli ‘kofrim’, who are really גלאט תינוק שנשבה with all the hiddurim, are mostly ‘Progressives’ who are opposed to Zionism. Go try to explain that to some of the chevra who post here…

This went past without any correction from satmar

I suspect that the Divrei Yoel would not be pleased with that מהלך. He is on record, in internal Satmar sources, as having said that the lomdus of the Shalosh Shevuos is not for Goyim, and a Goy who claims to be opposed to ‘Zionism’ is really opposed to Jews… Chuck Schumer and his shtusim notwithstanding, I don’t think anyone from Satmar called Khamenei ימ״ש to tell him not to bomb their mosdos, and I don’t think any of them are saying Tehillim for the success of the Iranians רמחנא ליצלן. (Except for the 20-30 psychopaths who don’t answer to any Rebbe, Satmar or otherwise, and who Baruch Hashem we haven’t heard from in the past few days… Maybe they went to daven by the Mosque of Karbala or the Kever of Haman or someplace else in Iran.)

ujm – I’m not a Rov or Dayan, so I don’t have to worry about someone’s Kashrus as an עד bedieved. אין הכי נמי, it’s not a poshut shaila. But טהרת המשפחה is not connected to Zionism. There are couples out there who married when they were holding at a lower level of observance, and later one spouse became more frum, and they do keep טהרת המשפחה. There are also couples where both spouses might not fully keep Shabbos, but they both want to keep טהרת המשפחה. At any rate, these are completely private inyanim, and nobody’s business.

AAQ – The Lubavitcher Rebbe actually made that exact point using the Theory of Relativity. He also noted how quantum mechanics demolished the notion of determinism, which was the bedrock of science for centuries. Newton’s ‘Laws’, according to modern physics, despite being an accurate way of predicting WHAT USUALLY happens, are not the real REASON WHY they happen. Similar to how we believe that each individual outcome is the result of Hashgacha Pratis, although on the macro level everything seems to more or less follow deterministic ‘laws of nature’.

AAQ – Making this into a ‘crisis’ is all about the political שאר ירקות and nothing else. The Army doesn’t need more canon fodder or potato peelers. The truth is, there are voices within the Army for years already pushing for a smaller and better trained army, as opposed to automatically drafting every 18 year old kid as a matter of principle. Just look at a picture of Gilad Shalit. Who was the idiot who sent that kid to active duty in Gaza? The truth is, Israel doesn’t need ALL the kids, but they do need more than a volunteer enlistment program could provide. But who’s to say who is free to go? So they are stuck with a general conscription law they themselves aren’t always thrilled with, because every new recruit costs them money and resources, but the ROI in the long term isn’t always worth it. They much prefer to invest in pilots and commandos, or advanced technology. What happens is that the Army itself looks to get rid of potential recruits they suspect will be a headache for them, and there are many ways to do that (with or without laws on the books) as everyone here knows on both sides… ודי למבין So don’t hold your breath waiting to see 10K new Chareidi recruits anytime soon…

Menachem Shmei – Someone from Lubavitch put out an entire Sefer several years ago called יהדות ללא פשרות, collected from all of the works of the last Rebbe זי״ע. There is a long chapter on his opposition to Zionism, both the theory and the practice. He was also the most formidable force battling the infamous מיהו יהודי law, during which time he called out many Israeli politicians, including religious ones, in no uncertain terms. (I’m sure you are well aware of this as a Lubavitcher, just mentioning it here for the benefit of the others.) On the other hand, the Rebbe engaged in positive dialog with many Israeli leaders, including some very secular ones, JUST LIKE HE DID WITH EVERYONE ELSE WHO WAS INTERESTED IN DOING SO, and he found ways to their hearts באשר הוא שם, again like he did with everyone. In other words, he totally rejected their השקפה, and in practice he sometimes even fought them far more than ‘anti-Zionists’ ever did, yet he was able to relate to them as people, and fellow Yidden, and to whatever extent possible, to ignite their Pintele Yid. This is something many people need to learn from. Even someone who is not בר הכי with ‘plaitzes’ of the Lubavitcher Rebbe to engage in dialog with people who have krum hashkafos or behavior, doesn’t have to write them off as Yidden or imagine scenarios of how they will die or be ‘dismantled’ ר״ל. Remind me which of the Rebbes said that the way to chase away darkness isn’t with sticks, but with light. (I remember with certainty that the quote comes from Chabad, but I forgot which Rebbe.) That is the real way to defeat ‘Zionism’ (which doesn’t really exist any more in its original form, but for argument’s sake I use the term to refer to the entire gamut of secular krumkeit in Israel.)

SQUARE_ROOT – So come live here yourself, big talker… It’s somewhere between amusing and annoying for Yidden who actually live here to watch the nonsensical give-and-take between the armchair Zionists and anti-Zionists sitting thousands of miles away…

HaKatan – He wrote that the Zionists could go to the gentiles and tell them to take over without hurting any Jews CH”V, and the gentiles would figure out a way.

If he said that at all, as a לו יצוייר, I don’t know. תכלית למעשה he refused to participate in any demonstration or other activity where Arabs or other non-Jewish agitators would be involved. This fact is solidly documented. The geopolitical map has changed dramatically since 1948 (when there may well have been better alternatives, but that is a totally moot point now). Which ‘Gentiles’ would you suggest contacting now? The British aren’t interested in coming back. America has no desire or legal framework to take over a foreign country, despite Trump’s meshigassen about Canada and Greenland. The UN of course have proven themselves as being very pro-Jewish and effective peacekeepers… Maybe offer Erdogan a head start on rebuilding the Ottoman Empire? Or offer ‘Haman’ a new Persian-Iranian Empire? Seriously, get real. The Divrei Yoel זצוק״ל was not in favor of mass murder of Yidden רחמנא ליצלן. Try to get the idea.

Disclaimer – I am not a Satmar Chossid, although I greatly respect the Divrei Yoel as a heiligier tzaddik and gaon, and I have learned many of his works.

I’m not sure what the point is to argue over and over about the Vayoel Moshe, and who did or didn’t accept it. This thread started as a discussion about ‘dismantling’ the State of Israel through some sort of process OTHER THAN Divine intervention. That is something that the Satmar Rebbe NEVER EVER advocated. It also goes against his whole thesis that the national destiny of Klal Yisroel is outside the realm of Hishtadlus. (In other words, כחי ועוצם ידי is treif, even when applied AGAINST Zionism ודו״ק.) It is well known, and documented in all of the biographies of the Satmar Rebbe, as well as attested to by many living witnesses, that he REFUSED to participate in any demonstration against the Israeli government if Arabs would also be there. He also built NEW neighborhoods and Mosdos IN ISRAEL, and his followers continue to do so. A person can be 100% Satmar and anti-Zionist as can be, and still not want to do (or even theoretically believe in doing) any פעולה גשמית to ‘dismantle’ Israel. So מהיכא תיתי that anyone can appoint himself to speak in the name of the Vayoel Moshe about ‘dismantling’ the state and endangering the lives of MILLIONS OF YIDDEN?! As if that was even a realistic possibility, instead of pure narishkeit and ביטול זמן, aside from showing a TOTAL lack of basic Middos and Sechel. Just cut out the nonsense and go back to doing or saying something worthwhile that has some תועלת in real life.

Yankel Berel – “the whole of vayoel moshe is a compendium of mostly aggadic materiel used to leharchik et ha’adam min haresha’im.”

Actually, Vayoel Moshe is mostly focused on Halacha, specifically the שלש שבועות and their ramifications/limitations as הלכה למעשה citing Rishonim and Poskim, whether Yishuv Eretz Yisroel is a Mitzvah/Chiyuv/optional בזמן הזה, and whether it is desirable or even permissible to speak in לשון הקודש for secular matters. It doesn’t deal with the issue of התחברות לרשעים as a primary topic. You may be thinking of the multi-volume דברי יואל which is mostly דרשות and אגדתא. But none of this has any שייכות to the idiotic ‘question’ that started this thread. The Satmar Rebbe zt”l never ever suggested doing anything למעשה to bring about the end of the State, other than davening for the real Geulah. There are significant communities of Satmar Chassidim, and many others who share all or some of their ideology, right here in Eretz Yisroel. Satmar donors from America donate lavishly to mosdos who share their שיטה, and help them to build new communities here. So all of these fine Yidden, who believe strongly in the ויואל משה as literally הלכה למעשה, do not see any סתירה to living here and BUILDING NEW mosdos/kehillos here, and certainly are not in favor of destroying or dismantling anything here. All of the incendiary posts by HaKatan, ujm, somejewiknow, etc., basically calling for the mass murder of millions of Yidden, DO NOT have any שייכות to the שיטה of the Divrei Yoel. It is well known that the Satmar
Rebbe refused to participate in any demonstrations where Arabs would also be demonstrating – “our fight is not their fight, our reasons are not their reasons…” Someone who doesn’t know/understand this חילוק doesn’t have the right to speak in the name of Satmar.

לכאורה the abbreviation מלכות ב״ד is short for מלכות בית דוד, not בית דין as you seem to translate it. That לכאורה would be a kvetch to try to apply it to the present מצב… The Malbim passed away in 1879, but Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan passed away in 1983, when one wouldn’t need רוח הקודש to accurately make such a statement… There is a tradition handed down from Rebbe Nachman of Breslev, who passed away in 1810, that there will be a partial return of a large portion of כלל ישראל to ארץ ישראל before משיח, alluded to in the פסוק (Yeshayahu 56, 8) – נאם ה׳ אלקים מקבץ נדחי ישראל עוד אקבץ עליו לנקבציו – Hashem will further gather together (the Jewish People) to those (already) gathered.

ZSK- “Charedim call me a Zionist, the RZ public considers me very Charedi-leaning.”

I’ve noticed a lot of American expats feel that way. We don’t fit exactly into the various boxes… Maybe that’s why we are capable of seeing that the home-grown Israelis also don’t necessarily fit exactly into the boxes they sometimes make for themselves…