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ujm – What is the point of this pyromaniac question?
I’ll try to help you anyway.
If you are a normal anti-Zionist, you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will cease to exist. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are one of the several dozen lunatics worldwide erroneously referred to as ‘Neturei Karta’ (no connection to the historical Neturei Karta of R’ Amram Blau z”l), you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, with lots of exiting fire and brimstone for everyone you don’t like, and hope you aren’t on the fire-and-brimstone list yourself, at which point the secular State will cease to exist. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are non-Zionist (regular Chareidi), you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will cease to exist. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are Religious Zionist, you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will turn into a Torah State under Moshiach. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are a Ben-Gvir type of guy, you go up to Har Habayis, and while you’re there you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will turn into a Torah State under Moshiach. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are a die hard Left wing secular Israeli, you try everything you can, legal or otherwise, to ruin what your Sabba Rabbah worked so hard to build. Then you get burned out and go off to Thailand to ‘find yourself’, end up in jail/hospital/who-knows-where, and the Lubavitch Shliach bails you out. Then you go home, go to Arachim/Ohr Sameach/Aish/anyplace (no intention to leave out anyone who is mekarev Yidden), and you start davening every day that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will get it’s act together and do Teshuvah. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are a kid who’s bored, trying to see how many angry responses you can get with you’re one-lined piece of narishkeit, you really should grow up, and start davening every day that Hashem should bring the true Geulah. Hopefully already before then, both you and the secular State will get your act together and do Teshuvah. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
I hope one of these answers suits you.
“DaMoshe” and “Rocky” – The WZO is an umbrella for three different organizations, only one of which works (sort of) the way you described. The ‘Minhal’ as it’s called here, ‘leases out’ most, not all of the land in Israel. Some of that money goes back to the JNF pot. In my case, the (very modest) ‘lease fee’ was already paid for 49 years in advance by the guy who sold to me. (I see that the ‘Zionists’ in the discussion have never bought property here…) BTW, much of the real estate in Yerushalayim is owned and ‘leased out’ in a similar manner by the Greek Orthodox Church, and the money goes to them… Does anyone suggest attempting to join their church to try to influence what they do with that money? And yes, joining the WZO, even symbolically, is according to many Gedolim past and present, is pledging allegiance to kefirah.
EHK is one of four Orthodox parties (Mizrachi, Shas, Aish Hatorah, EHK) in the WZO. Mizrachi has been there from the beginning in 1897 or so and is one of the most powerful parties (unlike in the Knesset, where it split up). None of those groups were able to stop any of the krum stuff the WZO funds.
Much of the information posted by EHK is deliberately misleading. For example, they make much ado about the cases brought (sometimes by Reform or Conservative activists, sometimes by other disgruntled parties) to the Israeli Supreme Court to harm Chareidi interests. To bring such a case to ‘Bagatz’ costs several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees. How much is that for George Soros? (Yes, they get money from him too.) And he is far from alone in supporting them. Does anyone think they will be deterred by cutting off one source of money, even if that itself were possible?
Why does everything have to do with ‘Eretz HaKodesh’? EHK or any other party to the WZO (there are another three Orthodox parties BTW – Shas, Aish Hatorah,and Mizrachi) has zero power to stop the Reform and Conservative loonies from doing anything. Even if they could stop all WZO funding for Reform/Conservative (they can’t), there are still plenty of private donors with lots of money to give to these krum causes. There really aren’t any native Israelis who believe in Reform/Conservative, they are either American expats, or local atheists. (Yair Lapid sometimes goes to a Reform congregation in Tel Aviv to do something. What exactly, I don’t know.) The handful of local Israeli ‘Reform’ really don’t believe in anything. They just use the Reform ’cause’ to promote their anti-Torah agenda by demanding that the State recognize ‘alternative streams’ of ‘Judaism’. The Supreme Court, AG, media, etc. help them in every way they can, against the wishes of the majority, in the name of ‘democracy’, despite the Likud/Chareidi/Dati block winning election after election (in real elections). What does this have to do with EHK, or even the WZO, for that matter?
BTW, the reason American non-Orthodox Jews have so much influence in the WZO is not because they VOTE in their elections, it’s because they GIVE most of the money… In the unlikely event that the WZO stops doing what they want it to do, they will stop sending them money, and send it directly to the causes they favor. That is precisely the reason the four Orthodox parties in the WZO can do nothing to stop them. What exactly can EHK do about that?
By the way, the World Mizrachi Organization was founded over 120 years ago, to represent Mitzvah observant Jewry in the WZO (right from the start). At the time, the majority of Yidden were still basically Orthodox. The naive/krum Mizrachi leaders thought that the more Frum representatives they could get in, the more they could steer the new Zionist movement in a Kosher direction… Leaving aside the issues involved in Zionism itself, there were those (baalei battim) who said that once there was an organized movement to settle Eretz Yisroel why not vote in some of our chevra and get a piece of the pie for Yeshivos, Frum settlements, etc. … The Gedolim of that generation did not agree with that approach. They warned that the ones who would control the WZO would be the ones with the money and political connections (Rothschild family etc.), and no amount of Frum representation would be able to change that… All the Mizrachi would accomplish is to provide a ‘hechsher stamp’ to draw the as-yet observant Yidden closer to people with very krum hashkofos, with disastrous results. The rest is history…
That is the bottom line at the WZO until today – the people who give 95% the money will control 95% of the money, and EHK can do nothing about it. If YOU have money, give it directly to worthy causes. You will accomplish much more for Klal Yisroel.
1. Why is it so hard for these people to get living Gedolim to say they support them? (Because they don’t.)
2. Why does the EHK website have many pictures of Pesach Lerner visiting Gedolim (most no longer alive), but no letters from any of them? (In his former role in Young Israel, he met with Gedolim to deal with other unrelated issues. WADR, that doesn’t automatically put a Hechsher on anything he does later.)
3. Why didn’t the sensational ‘exposes’ of Conservative interference in internal Chareidi affairs get any coverage in any media forum, inside Israel or outside, other than those websites frequented by the people EHK is trying to convince to vote? (Because the people ‘breaking’ the ‘shocking news’ never had any intention of stopping the ‘nefarious Conservative boogeyman’ through the police/courts, the WZO oversight authorities, or by shaming them among their own chevra, the whole thing is a phony stunt to scare naive people into voting for them.)
4. Why aren’t the folks ‘leaking’ the aforementioned ‘shocking news’, together with names and pictures of the ‘boogeymen’, even slightly afraid of getting sued by the well-oiled and well-connected people supposedly being accused? (My guess is that they are actually in cahoots with them, and the whole point of EHK is actually to connect Chareidim to Zionist ideology and activities, and to give a Chareidi hechsher on some of the problematic things WZO does, something perfectly OK with Yizhar Hess and co. If you thing that sounds far-fetched, search online for information on the things EHK has done for the last five years…)
5. Why have no Chassidish Rebbes weighed in on this issue, and no attempt seems to have been made by EHK to recruit any support from them, despite some of them being more open to working with the State and its functionaries than most Litvaks? Why aren’t even Chassidish askonim involved at all, other then Nissim Black and ‘Kletzkin’… (This is actually particularly damning IMHO, because the default ‘daas baalei batim’ answer to question #1 is to claim the Gedolim are ‘afraid to go against BMG/Moetzes/unidentified kanoyim, yaddah yaddah’, something Chassidish Rebbes obviously don’t have to worry about.)
6. Regardless of who did or didn’t approve voting for EHK, which Rabbonim guide them once they get elected? Who exactly do they represent? (This is the most important question, and one not being addressed at all. The Rabbinical advisory board of EHK (if it exists…) is even more of a mystery than the Rabbinic advisory board of YWN (“”). If you know the answer, please let me know.)
7. Why is voting specifically for EHK such a big deal? Why not vote for the Shas party, who at least have real live Gedolim backing them, and a real Moetzet guiding them? Why can’t they fight the Reform? (They can and do, to whatever limited extent is possible without disqualifying themselves from the WZO. But they don’t give out protekzia jobs to family member of Ashkenazi politicians… Again, you can look it up online…)
A: Gemara Arachin 29a, Rambam Maaser Sheini 2:2, Yoreh Deiah siman 331 se’if 133.
B: The mitzvah of separating maaser sheini does in fact apply nowadays, but not the mitzvah of eating it. This is derived in the Gemara from a possuk that compares maaser sheini to korbanos. See Makkos 19a.
C: The reason we do it this way is to prevent accumulation of maaser sheini that is forbidden to be eaten – “mishum takalah”. The reason it works even with a ‘prutah’ is because m’doraisa the prohibition on cheating in transactions doesn’t apply to Hekdesh (including maaser sheini). לא תונו איש את עמיתו meaning ‘colleague’, excludes ממון גבוה. The Rabbanan established a prohibition on cheating Hekdesh, but limited it to when the Bais Hamikdash existed so as to avoid accidentally using Hekdesh nowadays which is forbidden.
Hope this clarified things for you.