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Im not sure that by lowering the age that people usually get married will suddenly effect at what age people mature. It seems difficult to imagine in our society a 21 year old to be ready for so much responsibility.
In todays society and bachur can go until 20 years old without making a real life decision.
When i was growing up, which wasnt that long ago, we took city buses at 9 years old, my Father took a train across 3 states by himself at 8 years old. Now, I know parents that wont let their son take a car service by himself at 15 years old.
I guess if money is not an issue on both sides than they can do it as the parents on both sides can continue to make all the decisions, but in the average case can we expect that “all of a sudden” these children will be grown adults??
HaLeiVi, I looked it up, very interesting. I dont know any shuls who do that now so what do you mean we? also i wonder what bracha they made
If you are having him over for yom tov and he doesnt know your watching his every move then he will be himself.
watch him. if he acts like a mentch when he is not on a date thats a pretty good sign.
ok, I’ll bite. when do we do that? and also how could we be maftir on kesuvim if the bracha is asher bocher beneveim tovim?
Arutz,please explain how the graph forms into a triangle. i dont see a triangle. perhaps a circe or a trapazoid?
go to Priority-1.org and click on the get advise button. The Rosh Yeshiva is in Israel now. I can try to set up a meeting with your son. Mention that a Talmud of his sent you to this website. Hatzlacha
Of course it is a statement of rejection. But its a rejection based on a misunderstanding. His view of yiddishkeit that he learned from his neighbors and schools is a very specific one which doesn’t work for him (although it works for many others.) being an individual and being frum is not an contradiction. But he needs support from rabbis that understand this concept.
I am not at present a parent but I hope i can answer with enough sensitivity. I also havent read all 600 or so previous posts. I just wanted to add that you shouldnt overlook the importance of an emotionally suppurtive yeshiva. i mean this by mainstream yeshiva and of course in a situation like this. Of course each and every sitiuation is so different but in many cases the factor that the childwanted to dress different is because the person feels that they are or want to be different (for many or few reasons). Having someone in your life thats called “rebbi” and dresses like a rabbi thats friendly and cares about the student,and the student starts to respect them -that can totally change the way they view other people who dress like their “rabbi”. I wouldnt worry about how much lemudei kodesh they learn. he has his whole life ahead of him for that, now is the time to try to get him to have a more positive attitude towards torah. (of course the rebbi should be teaching him torah when possible, and i would trust the rebbi to know when that is).
I have a place to suggest but thats not my point here. my point is that we should remember that the “system” does not fit for all and we have to decide which parts of “going off of the path”
are “dangerous” and which parts are just searching for another path.
I wish you much hatzlacha and strength. i just want to add themt my rebbi always told us to look out for the ones that dont want to fit in- we call them leaders
“Because in Europe it was a good idea”
Please educate me on the schedules of boys yeshivos and girls yeshivos in europe. I would appreciate any resources that say that the average child at age 11 was in school as many hours per week as they are nowadays.
I cant imagine any Rosh Yeshiva believes that his yeshiva doesn’t have something to offer more than any other yeshiva. And I have no doubt that any Bachur in a yeshiva(assuming he likes it there) believes that his yeshiva is the best. (kind of like summer camp)
That being said there are two questions to be answered. 1)why are some chofetz chaim rabbis so open about it? and 2)Why was(is?) Chofetz Chaim considered by some as a “cult”?
The answer is that in years past there were very few “non-Chofetz Chaim-ers” that joined the yeshiva. The derech wasn’t even a consideration. Why? Because it made no sense to one who is not familiar with the benefits of the derech.
If someone wanted to go to college and then work, why would he go to a yeshiva that constantly talks about the greatness of Harbatzos HaTorah?
If someone wanted to go into Harbatzos HaTorah why would he go somewhere where he couldn’t do that until he turned 30(Average age of semicha there)?
And if someone just wanted to learn all his life, then again, why would he got to a yeshiva that would push him to go into Harbatzos Hatorah at some point?
Therefore, outsiders would not consider going to Chofetz Chaim, and this is also the reason why some of the Rabbeim spoke so openly (within the walls of the yeshiva)about the benefits of their approach. Because within the yeshiva the bachrim would ask those same questions so the Rabbeim had to discuss with them the benefits of the derech as opposed to the others.
(Note: there was a previous where he quoted a talk given by one of the Rosh Yeshiva about Rabbi Shaya Cohen’s speech he gave in which the Rosh Yeshiva tried to explain his words differently. “Counteract and explain” was the quote. I just wanted to clarify so there wouldn’t be confusion that that they were not disagreeing on any major hashkofic issues(as for as i can recall, i am sure you will correct me if i am wrong)but rather on a discussion about weather a certain sefer can be brought to discuss Muchruch Shmoozin(for more about this you can read the introduction to the book “pinnacle of creation” where it discusses the anatomy of the “Shmooze”).
(Also just to clarify I am fairly sure the Rosh Yeshiva quoted was not R’ Henoch Leibowitz but one of the present Roshei Yeshiva who is a chaver to R shaya Cohen and they are quite close.)
If you want to remain anonymous then its obviously something sensitive that you dont feel close enough to your Rav to discuss. which is unfortunate because most likely as “chesedname” said he knows you best. you should ask someone you trust for a rav that they trust to answer such questions and then you can call anonymously
If he has been a regular boy until now you shouldn’t be too nervous, he is probably doing it to fit in with some of his friends, but that doesnt mean that your reaction isnt extremely important. If you would rather him not wear jeans, HE KNOWS THAT. ans he wants to see how much space you will give him.
In my opinion which is based on zero, its best not to react negatively but at the same time not to make believe you approve and at the same time not act as if your acting.
Hatzlocha, also check out priority-1.org for parenting tips
The real question here is what does Hashem want from us. I dont know if he wants us to do scientific research on age gaps to force people to get married to people older than them. I dont know.
But i think the main focus should be thinking of ways to get these singles worthwhile dates. Which is mostly done by people who know them well. Just because we aren’t an “offical” shadchan we think we have to be “best friends” with a person to think of a shidduch for them.
My idea was that every couple, EVERY COUPLE has an obligation to have a list in their pocket at all times of five woman and five men that they know “well”. they should know these 10 people well that when they meet someone they can easily describe them and what they are looking for correctly. here’s the fun part, if one doesn’t know 10 single people this well, they are obligated to “find” single to fill up their list. by asking their married friends if they have any other single friends etc. and then meeting them and getting to know them. For getting names of the oppsite gender they will have to work together with their spouse.
I think this is a good way to get average people more involved. and the dates that come out of this are going to be less random than your classic shadchen.
There is NO Mekor for the curriculum taught in these schools. However it’s very difficult to have the girls feel accomplished by just learning cooking and Hashkofa (especially in this world we live in that home ec is looked at as extremely petty). and it would also be “a Shanda” that the only accomplishment they feel is from their english classes. so we need to teach them unneccesary things that they can study, do homework on(another thing with no mekor) and memorize so that when they get their “A” they will feel good about themselves. And what about the girls that cant get “A”s because they are not cut out for this(which is totally normal because thats not what they were created for and have no obligation) they feel like failures when they can be the best wife and mom. another example of our chinuch system sacrificing the average students for the top ones.
one last thing,
Memorize the Chofetz Chaim’s introduction to the Hilchos Shabbos in Mishne Brurah vol 3? who thinks up this stuff??!!