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    ohr chodesh -“The mussar seforim are full of fire and brimstone. Fire and brimstone is a legitimate and effective and historical Jewish form of mussar.”

    Sam2 -“Ohr Chodesh: No one disagrees with that. The question is whether a school for young girls is the proper place for use of such a Derech of Mussar.”

    Feif Un -“We see that R’ Shteinman holds that the methods of chinuch needed have changed. Fire and brimstone is not the way to go!”

    Yes, this is another misconception that is prevalent in our day & age and I’ll clear it up. I cleared up that Achronim don’t hold Torah learning comes before Tzedaka. B’H for people who read this on the Net and won’t have this misunderstanding anymore about Mussar giving.

    Yes, we do have people who give Mussar by beating on their Chest and screaming Fire & Brimstone. I have experienced this many times in my lifetime. Is this the best proper way? Is this the best way of the Torah?

    As not to argue on R. Shteinman, I’ll just say he holds Fire & Brimstone is absolutely Ossur in our generation, not that it was ever the best way.

    The following is from the Kedushas Levi in Parshas Cheukas:

    (A transliteration.)

    “The Posuk says “Yan Lo Hematem Bee L’hakdeshayni.”

    There is a Machlokus between the Rambam & Ramban. The Rambam says the Ikkar Chet was Moshe Rabbeynu got angry and embarrassed the Yidden with “Shimu Noh Hamorim” and the Ramban says the Ikkar Chet was he hit the rock and didn’t speak to it.

    And I say, these two reasons are really one. There are two types of Tzaddikim – one who won’t stop giving Mussar until the Yidden do Teshuva and the other Tzaddik picks up the people & elevates them so much until they are embarrassed that they sinned. The difference between these two Tzaddikim is this: The one that brings them to do Teshuva on their own good will -then the Breeoh is subjected to everything that is commanded for the Good of Klal Yisroel because the world was only created for Klal Yisroel.

    But the Tzaddaik that forces Teshuva through hard & sharp words of Mussar is forced to force the Breeoh to do the will of Klal Yisroel, but not them doing it with good will.

    So it comes out since Moshe came to anger & he gave Mussar with strong words – “Shimu Noh Hamorim” -the rock didn’t want to listen to his words alone, but Moshe was forced to hit it & to take out the water with force!”

    The end of the Vort. Such powerful words. How could anybody even add or disagree?

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