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Syag, are you saying that there were no people who refused to wear masks? We had lovely discussions here with people explaining how bad masks are. Same in person, here and, as reported by reliable witnesses in other towns. Maybe I am not understanding your definition.
same article on applicability of the Harayot priorities:
Rabbi Auerbach states it is impossible to apply these rules in our times.Rabbi Feinstein seconds this approach.
Minchat Shlomo, 86:60
Iggrot Moshe Choshen Mishpat 2 73:2, 75:2
Along these lines the Mishnah Berurah states that we have no Torah Scholars in our time and this cannot be used as a way to decide, which person should be saved fi rst (547:12), the Magen Avraham states this as well.From the same article on pandemics, fascinating references:
Tzitz Eliezer vol. 9 28:3 – if you can spend same amount of vaccine on 100 old OR 1000 young patients saving, on average, same number of lives. for older people, you reduce chance of dying, for young – eliminate completely. We give vaccine to younger – claim for certain saving is higher than uncertain.
based on Pri Megadim Siman 328 in the Mishbatzot ZahavTzitz Eliezer 9:17 a physician should put himself in danger in order to stop an epidemic and save
more lives, as opposed to the regular situation where a physician is prohibited from placing his life in dangerRabbi Daichovsky told the author, we must vaccinate the super-vectors, a.k.a. young children, because they are considered Rodfi m, one who pursues another individual to kill him. we vaccinate health care workers before anyone else. This is because health care workers are needed to fight the epidemic
quoting from a secondary source Rationing During a Pandemic Flu Aryeh Dienstag (this is pre-covid article!). There are multiple reference to value of people to society
Horiyot 13: men over women (in saving, but not in ransom), kohen over israel over mamzer, but Talmid Chacham before Am Haaretz, even if a King [T’Ch is irreplacable, King not]
Mishnah Berurah (OC: 547:22) – there are no Talmidei Chachamim at our times [AAQ: this might have changed 🙂 seems not to be the current opinion, though]
Rambam on Mishna Haroyot 3:8 – we do save King before Talmid Chacham because people need him
R Tendler: human life is infi nite and therefore cannot be prioritized objectively. Practically, however, society may need certain persons more than others and therefore prioritization can be used
R Oshry (Shoah, selecting people to send to die): duty of community leaders to take courage and operate in any way they saw fit to save as many people as possible
R Auerbach: age does not go into the equation of whom one saves first. What one should only look into is the level of danger and the chance to save the most people
private communication with Rabbi Daichovsky he told the author that there is a value in saving people whom society needs in order to preserve a functional society
Gadol > in some deep Red jurisdictions
I am sure this is also happening. The path on both sides, seems to be – we will counter their lies with our lies, and then double them. This is not going to end well. At least as public schools are going, they are funded by the taxpayers and should generally reflect taxpayers’ will (which may differ by state).
A typic al example would be a US government high school class where in one of the first classes the teacher starts explaining that Senate is not representative and he wishes that would be changed. I am sure this is his opinion and he is very sincere. Still, this is not what he was hired for. But a possible solution is not that hard:
1) publish curriculum
2) do random testing of students and see if an abnormal number of them hold biased opinionsa MUCH more problematic case is a story about illiterate peasants coming to a Jewish mill. The miller will count the sacks by putting a penny for every sack. Then, the miller will go to the back to get the money to pay. The peasant will see the pennies and steal them …
Red > any different than buying day-old bread from a bakery
difference is that the store sells day-old vbread as “day old”. Here they advertise “one week rentals”, they do not suggest “two for one week”, they just cannot accept a return during their week off. At least, this is how I understood it.
You seem to have 2 concerns:
1) taking away business from the company. Chofetz Chaim would tear up a post office stamp whenever he would send a letter with someone travelling to the same destination. So, this is definitely a valid concern but also a hiddur. Furthermore, in his case, this is an ongoing and self-initiated problem – if a lot of people will stop using mail, the losses will disrupt the service. In your case, it is a once-a-year thing and they made the rules.2) appearing to be scheming. How about you just tell them your plans and ask their opinion? Only you had to ask an owner, not an employee who does not care. Maybe suggest a small extra fee to make it agreeable.
actually 3) doing business with non-Jews around their holidays. If nobody comes, and here is their regular Jewish customer who helps fill the season, will they praise whoever for that?
There are productive ways to deal with CR: Soth Carolina is considering bill that will require schools to post detailed curriculum. This sounds like a great idea for transparency – along with testing (for knowledge, not just covid).
Syag, are they now sequencing for individual patients? I thought it is done only “on average” for like 1% of cases. Interesting.
It makes sense that communities that had previous waves will be mostly affected by omicron, plus also high propagation in schools. By the way, we can also learned from the ways of non-Jews: see what propagation is happening when they celebrate and travel and then they stand in long lines to test? Similar things were probably happening in our communities during holidays, it just did not get in the news.
Gadol > CRT is a great social wedge
It has substance. You can grapple with a specific “CRT” wording, but it is a fact that schools do propaganda, in many cases left-wing one. If you want to be talking to people with different views, it would be helpful if you recognize the facts before arguing an opinion.
ujm, I just quoted a psak by R Grodzinsky that uses profound (long term, for others) priorities that evaded the Rabbis who were asking the question (who looked at short-term risk to the people themselves). This should make you think and research what else is out there.
You need to be careful evaluating halakha in some cases. If it was looking at an abstract case dealing with just one parameter – status of people involved – then it does not mean that decision might not be different in other cases. I just brought a psak, there may be more complexities here. Feel free to expand.
ujm > maximum number of passengers possible given the fact that there are insufficient space
ujm, in practical situation, there are additional factors that will be used:
sort everyone by weight and size (lowest to highest), although one could argue that a fatter person have higher chance of survival (both food and buoyancy)
more important – skills that will help everyone to survive – rowing, doctors, radio amateurs
most important – those whose survival will be important in a longer term – when they land on an island, or even when they come back home. See Teshuva by R Grozdensky in Vilno, 1940 a month before it was occupied. They asked who should get Sugihara visas – older Rabbis who will be first to be arrested and killed, or the younger ones who will lose their children to shmad. He answered older ones – because (1) they’ll be able to help remaining ones better when they come to America, and (2) they are more important for American JewsHave a check-out system like bottle deposits:
you take a book, put a dollar. you return a book, take a dollar.
if someone does not care and leaves a book, someone else can put it back and take a dollar.Use tokens on shabbos. Use same tokens for aliyot. You run out of tokens, no aliyot.
Syag > My symptoms were seemingly unaware that the omicron was supposed to be mild
Refuah shleimah. Sorry if I was harsh on you, did not know you are posting under distress 🙂
Given that your previous covid was wuhan long ago, this one might have been delta, not omicron. There is almost as much delta now as a month ago, it is just a “low percentage” of the total.yehudis > can be truly heroic .. And on the flip side …no one is intrinsically better than anyone else
I agree and disagree. Truly, a moment of challenge reveals a lot. Gemora defines these moments as “kiso, koso, vekaaso”. And in this case, we had all of this – a lot of financial issues clouding decisions; anger at others for whatever reason, and, I suspect (supported by purchase stats 🙂 – some drinking also.
I disagree with “kulanu shavim”. People whom I respected and looked up to mostly continued doing good things, often more than usual; and those whom I avoided before, it is now easier to keep 4 amot/6 ft away. What was interesting, the Syag’s “third option”, beinoni, I guess, which was the majority of people I know. Many of those revealed to belong to one of the 2 groups Either I did not notcie before, or their character revealed in crisis.
sounds like it is an open secret that every regular customer would know. They understand in advance that they are giving it to you for 2 weeks.
The only question might be that you would otherwise have it for 2 weeks and pay them more, so you are depriving them of livelihood. It sounds like absent this opportunity, you would pay for the week and use for the week, right? Then, they have no loss and you an extra convenience. Of course, it is a slippery slope to convince yourself that you really need 1 week, but in this case, you actually did it already.
n0 > Modesty is the opposite of needing attention
when a certain senator was trying to define tznius into legislation, he was asked to give a strict definition of what lack of tznius is. He answered: I know when I see it.
cheating businesses will lose out: they now post prices as $9.99 to make you feel it is less than $10. now, they’ll have to go to $9.95, losing 4 cents.
RW > psychological reason that they don’t see the actual money leaving their hand
exactly! Paying with a card requires higher psychological efforts to limit yourself from over-spending. Any invisible object is harder to perceive and react accordingly. Same with virus (v. wild animals). Same with Hashem (v. idols).
YS > paid cash for anything besides a babysitter?
quarters for parking. Pennies for kids to pay into a pushka in a store. Never paid cash or anything to a babysitter. My wife barely lets me to stay with kids.
Rw > how do you explain math of a 100 cents equate to a dollar,
you won’t. With Brandon’s inflation, dollars will be new cents soon. Italians used to pay in “milli-liras” (one word) rather than liras.
Ha, that explains all the posting bursts here! Tell us what new and productive things you were able to do at home?
Kuvult > treat everyone like a Mensch.
HaGaon Henrich Heine gives a practical advice – try everyone once, just make sure that if someone breaks your trust, make sure you don’t give hi a second chance (this is what we call now “abuse”). you will have some losses, but you can live carefree with some minor losses.
Also, this story tells you about long-term ramifications of a minor act. This old Yid’s chocolates and brachot reverberate half-century later. Imagie if he would just called the boy, said “nu”, and then sent him away with a quick nod?
YWN, it is hard to change yourself, but it is almost impossible to change others. So, start with an “easier” task:
– learn the next week parsha and the next masechet for daf yomi.
– have an alternative sefer that you can learn when you can’t find the current one. Something that is not likely to attract attention: uktzin, halakhos emes vesheker, humros in bein Adam l’havero, yiddish edition of Artscroll.
– bring your own sefer
– learn mishnah by heart like in good old times
– just actually daven.> $900 which, in Los Angeles, is not a crime.
Is 4900 a new prutah? checking my watch – how fast is inflation going?
Orange > Users could report tzinius violations while driving
“report while driving” is not safe, unless you meant ” tzinius violations while driving”. This is done better automatically. Online platforms already have skin detectors to censor inappropriate images, just add two lower notches, one for Jews and a lower one for Muslims.
Syag, thanks for your questions! I think I already answered above – I care more for Torah learning than other endeavors.
But, of course, while Gemora says that work/learn balance people are generally more successful, there are other nisayonos in life as you mention! If I am talking to friends, I would surely suggest them not studying towards non-productive degrees, and doing PhD at a faster rate and part-time. Not bragging, but I got PhD without being on welfare, first having a fellowship and then getting a job, and my wife was able to stay with the kids as long as she wanted (which she did). I surely missed out on some exciting opportunities that required long work hours for future reward.
But, anyway if there are some people here getting PhD in gender studies while staying on welfare and neglecting kids, please reveal yourself so that we can straighten you out!
amom, I apologize and sorry for using wrong assumptions. Anyway, for teacher’s salaries – did you look at starting a class teaching in a town that has ore working people and less people capable/having time for teaching. As I put above, $5K x 15 kids = $75K – $25K expenses would give you a salary higher than now. With 2-3 friends and a shul that is willing to give you use of the building, you can thrive and use your talents.
On a bright side of this serious problem, there is something about serendipity of reading a sefer you find on the table! I sometimes leave seforim that are under-read by the tzibur (usually, mussar and all bein adam l’havero) and then count number of people who peruse the book that they will never open it otherwise. The book with the most catchy title that attracted a lot of random users both here and in my father’s O’H shul was a small pamphet called “Lying for Truth”. Seems like everyone was interested in what heterim are available, but ended reading it more learned but slightly disappointed (not too many are).
n0, the point was taking public money to support Torah learning when it was not the taxpayer intent.
We had these discussions before. It is obvious that this was not an ideal in olden time, then it becomes an “emergency measure” for the times when community is in danger. But by mow, it is becoming accepted as core value to the degree that here is resentment to people who disagree, do not sufficiently support, and a challenge – support my Torah or some homeless dude.
I am afraid we are losing our values – while trying to preserve them. Again, let’s presume we still need these emergency measures, but somehow we need to ensure that this emergency character is remembered – and, when possible, moved towards a better one. Can a talmid chacham spend two hours a day working, or training to work? If not, maybe one hour? Do we have economic disincentives – he will lose gov benefits and stipend doing that?
If true, the numbers for 2nd generation immigrants are very encouraging. We do not have a similar success in USA. What percentage of R- and C- Jews eventually have kosher homes? 5? 10? Here we have Jews coming after several generations of total assimilation and having 25% kosher homes and their children – 50%?! Consider those 20-30% of non-Jews as the price we paid for saving a mln+ of Jewish neshomos from communist gehenom.
amom, you got to take the whole package. These are same democrats that bring all government programs that help you. More “law and order” republicans tend to tie public assistance to work encouragement/requirement. Current welfare work requirements are due to mid 90s Republican reform that reduced number of people on welfare from 13 mln to 3 mln.
I don’t know whether kollel wives are not on internet, but I think most are on the sister site.
amom > Years ago I think it was more common, but today
I think this is because a couple of generation ago, there were working families that spent their meager earnings to send their kids to yeshiva and then even kollel out of love of Torah and out of fear of devastation that was happening with the Jewish community in America. Currently, you often have (statistically, I am not trying to stereotype) parents who do not have serious earnings with, Baruch Hashem, large families, and they are not able to support everyone. Others, and this sounds like your MiL, discovered that there is now a strong community that can support ehriche yidden who earn a living and stay true to Torah, and so they see that their children can combine both. This is a difference of opinions and everyone can easily bring proofs for their side and the answer may be different for different people.
Ok, I looked up current SNAP rules for NJ, as this was mentioned. There is a work requirement, with exemptions for <6 y.o in a family for one parent in the family or for someone studying for a job. So, I guess if amom works and studies, her husband gets the kid exemption. State of NJ should not be bothered that it is heroic amom who de facto cares for those kids, so this makes it within rules, even if against the “spirit of the law”. Is this what you mean, ujm? Thanks for legal education. I feel better now, but still do not understand why people want to go through this.
amom > AAQ has equal preference for his taxes helping a T”Ch or a homeless beggar.
I don’t have “equal preference”:
1) There are taxes and rules that democratically elected government designated for poor. Usually, the more poor, the more money. So each person who needs charity, gets it from people who work. So, if people (through their elected representatives) say that they are ready to pay X to each poor person, I do not think it is kosher to pretend to be such a person if you are not. As UJM mentioned, if there are programs that designated for anyone who prefers not to earn money, then, of course, it is more ok to take those.2) when you present it as a choice, I also do not understand. So, you will not do whatever needs to be done to a homeless person in order to support Torah learning by someone who is capable of working?
> means they are making very little money for a non frum lifestyle and a frum lifestyle is way more expensive
these are all legitimate arguments when you talk to a willing donor who wants to support Torah learning. You tell him what is your “expensive frum lifestyle” and he will tell you what he is willing to support.
Amom, I apologize if I am coming so negative, somehow we are talking past each other and not understanding. I mentioned the money aspect only as a qualification to my “kol hakavod” not even expecting that it applies to you as you were describing your job. And, frankly, I am more picky with this than with other members of society that may or may not be productive: we re talking here about yidden who spent years toiling in Torah. Surely, hopefully it is done in purity and honesty. for an extreme example, could you imagine someone learning whole day and then cursing people, or robbing them, or driving over them on the way home? Surely, everyone would say that this is not real Torah. If a college professor spends years researching Greek philosophy and then misbehaves in his private life, I will care less. This is my only concern, I hope I explained it better now. The rest are specific details that, as I mentioned before, people disagree about and I’ll try to address separately.
Avira > most people would be fuming at their mother in law
I am not sure why we are going into someone’s family, but this is very puzzling. M-I-L supports the family, albeit less than others. In-laws seemingly raised multiple children and made them productive members of society. Fuming at parents for having an opinion (caring) about your life path is not something that a T’Ch would do. Again, I don’t intend to put my nose into someone else’s family.
n0 > Nor do you have any idea which programs are popular among kollel members
Sure. I used to be very poor, but somehow avoided using most of it. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I just said what my principles are. If there is a moral way to get gov money, gezunte heig. For example, Andrew Young’s stipend for everyone would be a great thing for learning. If the economy will survive that, it will be great. In a big picture, current human productivity in developed countries far exceeds what humans need to survive. So, choosing learning obviously a better choice than many others chosen…
interesting poll results from Israel, not new just happened on an article. If this contradicts some other numbers, please post!
80% of Jewish Israelis believe in G-d,
another one: 65% convinced of His Existence (60% in US, 40% Italy, 20% UK)
65% consider him author of Torah and mitzvotImmigrants from FSU:
55% believe in G-d (70% second generation)
24% keeping kosher home (50% second generation)The only way Trump will not be able to win re-election if he updated Constitution Putin-style! (Russia had “constitution” that allowed for 2 _consecutive_ terms, leading to Putin having 4 non-consecutive ones). I think he will be bored by the middle of his second term after appointing a couple of more Supremes, vaccinating Alex Jones, approving HCQ, giving nukes to Ukraine, building pipeline from Jeddah to Haifa, making Sweden join NATO, and buying Greenland at discount. None of that will buy Gadol’s vote, of course, except jabbing the Joneses.
> Hashem tilted the axis after the mabul.
This can be tested by looking whether older trees have rings, as rings come from seasons.
Zaphod, I am not giving practical advice, I am starting with an “ideal” scenario so that we can then tailor practical advise to that ideal, rather than to the “usual”.
See how stereotypes work: you say that kids in this ideal scenario have less social skills. I contend that kids who interact with more mature kids/adults will have better social skills. This is a well-known fact, for example, that younger siblings are better talkers due to interaction with older ones.
So, in regards to your concerns, if you want to form such groups, invite best behaving older kids to pair with a larger group of younger ones, do not invite the worse behaving older ones.
While concerns about internet are important, we might have acquired enough computer literacy in some pockets in the community, so that a much larger group can now benefit from it. There are now Rabbis with kosher phones that run regular zoom classes, enjoying ability to travel more without breaking the class schedule and have former students who moved away joining the class. At least adults can now start using internet responsibly and carefully introduce it to kids where appropriate.
First advise is to use desktops in common areas with screens towards people rather than laptops and phones.Avira, again you harking back to the times of Ben Yehuda. At this point, there are so many Jews who lived in Israel, or learned with Israeli pronunciation, or have an Israeli parent, that this should not be so surprising. What about sephardim who are not “visibly sephardi”, as many Levant Jews look like Europeans, and many now assimilated from turbans into black hats. Just answer the shabbos greeting the best way you can and enjoy it.
coffee > because they didn’t teach it is wrong properly
I think Gemora in Makkos 7 says that it is a teiku whether executing 1 in 7 or 70 years makes a court “murderous” due to excessive execution (you can see the reason by the way it asks from 7 to 70 and not other way around). Then R’ Akiva & R Tarfon suggest not executing anyone, and R Shimon b’ Gamliel retorts that they’lll also increase number of murders.
> frum therapist with the correct hashkofo
I think if someone knows what the corect hashkofo is, this is already a worrying sign.
I would rather first have shomer Torah therapists give talks to communities and teachers and train community leaders in correct handling of children and seeing warning signs to call therapists. This could reduce number of cases requiring intervention.
> When Tattes were Tattes
Most people used to have choices within their town and maybe a nearby. A T’Ch may have choices from some other T’Ch and gvirim in a larger area. Now, you have choices all over the world and padded descriptions of each that require FBI investigations. Too many choices lead to unhappiness. There are experiments that having 3 yogurts to choose from makes people happier than having 20.