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RebE, having acceptance standards is somewhat different from expelling. Same difference as between rejecting a shidduch and giving a get.
But even them – a number of chabad schools accept such kids at least in younger ages, especially Israelis who send kids to Jewish kindergartens until public schools. And now, with government giveaways of pre-schools that seem to also fund religious ones, I’ve heard of mixed kindergartens of yeshivish and non-observant kids. Possibly because free beats the concerns and nobody issued an issur yet (as with public schools).
Shapiro was not thrown under the bus, he got off the bus before it went off the cliff. I am happy for him and all Yidden that he is not put into the position of campaigning in front of the Michigan Ummah.
I wonder how Dr Jill feels though: Kamala threw Biden under the bus at first opportunity in 2019 – and now knived him in the back on his way out. Possibly Bidens will come out and endorse Trump before the elections.
> but not yet a legal divorce. May she go out on a shidduch date or not?
RebbeGPT answered that yes, but she needs to disclose it by the third date. Unless your minhag is to do a vort after two dates. In this case, it is unclear whether you should be using kallah married name in the invitations. Ask your ruv.
SQRT> Rabbi Moshe Feinstein never saw the many thousands of Chabad people who continued to insist that their Rebbe was the Melech HaMashiach,
even after his death.Indeed, according to a contemporary public testimony of a Rav who spoke with L Rebbe’s office while he was incapacitated, they did not support the meshugas. Kal v’homer after petira, kal vehomer R Moshe v closest rebbe’s confidants.
Evion is a poor person who has no money. Ani is a person who used to have something and is now lacking that. He needs our support if necessary even if he is not poor in financial sense. A person who volunteer to risk his life – kal vechomer. According to R Wachtfogel Z’L, Lakewood Mashgiach, Esther becomes Mordechai’s rebbe at the moment she is risking her life (by deciding to go to the King). I did not use this chance to ask the Rav about giyus.
Closer to home: we have a letter on the front page where the respected talmidei chachamim say that they do not know of any gadol (singular) that disagrees with their position on draft. This breaks the infallibility argument: either those who are verifiably Talmidei Chachamim and are known to hold opposite position are wrong and not gedolim; or Talmidei Chachamim that signed the letter are wrong not just in their conclusion, but simply in the veracity of their statement. I don’t see how this simple example can support that T’Ch are always right, unless you are using “no good scotsman” derech.
skripka > ow for example could they think that having a women sit on a barrel of wine and smelling her breath is a way of being able to tell that she is still a besulah? It just isn’t!
I simply can’t believe your strong position is based on rigorous testing. You are just making unscientific assumptions. Pot. Kettle.
Yes man, I didn’t come to any conclusions yet, I just found some numbers that looked relevant and reliable and shared with you.
RebE, indeed, my hevruta and I were once kicked out of the class specifically fir that. As the rebbe said in front of the class, our misbehaving didn’t affect our learning but affected others who were copying us.. this tochacha actually worked
.. still, this contradicts numerous stories of gedolim personally protecting such kids. Maybe there are other gedolim who hold differently, then please bring the sources.I once talked with a school administrator about challenging kids. He shared with me how he visited r Kanevsky with a shailoh about his child. I asked him then who is the school asking such shailohs about expelling kids and he didn’t have a ready answer. Do you know who is your school asking shailos of?
Dr Pepper > I was walking by a meter maid who slapped a ticket on a car in a way
I was walking in front of a meter maid and threw a couple of quarters into the cars in front of me. Got me ayn harah.
Guys, stop focusing on a yeshiva.
They had their chance to educate the kid and to show chesed if the child is a difficult one. There are numerous stories that gedolim did not tolerate expulsions, such as R Schach telling the yeshiva managers that it is ok to expel the the kid and then was seen personally tutoring the kid, leading to them taking the kid back. I am not saying that there are no kids that should be elsewhere, but most cases are not.
So, it is either the yeshiva managers (1) are not aware of the position of the gedolim, or (2) are not willing to follow their example, or (3) it is a case of a kid who really does not belong there. My humble opinion is in all of 3 cases, there is no reason to try to get back there. If you think differently, please specify which of the 3 hypotheses above you presume.
So, instead – focus on what the kid needs to develop into an erliche Yid and start providing that. If you think that in a long-term he needs to be in a yeshiva, you can continue searching for the right place, but there is no reason you can’t provide a good environment for the kid yourself with the help from friends, tutors, local rabbis.
sechel? (according to making of a gadal – who makes up many things so i dont know how trustworthy he is -)
This book has enormous number of citations, I never saw anything documented as well as this sefer. Maybe you think so because you skipped over little numbers in the main text. These are called endnotes and refer to specific people and books. They are at the end of the book in fine print and are even more interesting than the main text.
sechel> all the gedolim supported the rebbe and held of his as the gadal hador and many held he was moshiach
At minimum, I think LR, R Moshe and Rav YB Soloveichik had respectful relationships between each other. Maybe, as I once was told by a Rav about another Rav with whom I suggested a cooperation: “at least we learned not to hurt each other’s work”.
Qwerty > I’m surprised that you think it’s a Chiddush that Lubavitchers would lie. …To blatantly lie and think you can fool others as well as Hashem is, perhaps, worse than idolatry.
All I am saying that intellectual honesty is a prerequisite for a debate. Especially when you are talking in an anonymous forum. What is even the point of lying to someone you do not know personally? Self-gratification? then, go to your own group and talk to each other. We have here a rare chance of having a free-flowing discussion between people with different views and experiences. Lies just waste everyone’s time at best and, at worst, makes your own view less respectable.
So, as you have strong opinions, maybe you can go and re-check that podcast, and maybe someone pro-chabad can do that also, and report to us?
PS Interesting in Bava Basra 41, if we have two witnesses, one saying the loan is $100, and another $200, we do not conclude that at least $100 is owed – as one of the witnesses is evidently lying (or off his rocker), we have only one kosher witness. This underlines that if someone mis-reports something, we should not listen to the rest of his speech.
> That’s subjective.
This is not the real problem. The real problem is that true answers will attract creeps, not well-matching candidates. Maybe booking system should simply ask users for their match com or CU@Sinai profiles and manage the bookings.
> win back Arab American voters
There are also articles discussing whether Gov Shapiro is a problem because he is so pro-Israel or because he is stam Jewish … This D party left Joe Liberman way behind.
Maybe Israel should time wars for bein hazmanim so that bachurim could lead the troops with their true Torah attitude and not miss classes.
How about airlines provide additional information during seat selection: gender, ethnicity, age range, girth, attractiveness level – all publicly observable when you are in the plane, marital status (optional) – I am sure they can charge more then.
here are some sources oft-quoted in such discussions:
Pesachim 94b
The Sages of Israel say, During the day, the sun travels below the firmament, and at night, above the firmament. And the scholars of the nations say, During the day the sun travels below the firmament, and at night below the ground. Rebbi said: Their words seem more correct than ours, for during the day the wellsprings are cool and at night they steam (due to being heated by the sun passing beneath them—Rashi).Sanhedrin 5b
Rav said: I spent eighteen months living with a shepherd in order to know which blemishes are permanent and which are transitory.Rav Sherira Gaon (or possibly his son, Rav Hai Gaon) Teshuvot Ha Geonim, no. 394:
Our sages were not doctors and said what they did based on experience with the diseases of their time. Therefore, there is no commandment to listen to the sages [regarding medical advice] because they only spoke from their opinion based on what they saw in their day.Rambam, Moreh Nevuchim 3:14
Do not ask me to reconcile everything that they (the sages) stated about astronomy with the actual reality, for the science of those days was deficient, and they did not speak out of traditions from the prophets regarding these matters.Maharam Schick, Teshuvas Maharam Schick 7
Matters that were not received by Chazal as halachah leMoshe miSinai, but rather which they said according to their own reasoning – and with something that is not received [from Sinai] and has no root in our Torah, but rather comes from investigation and experience, it is difficult to determine [that it is true]. And there are many occasions when the sages determined, according to their own intellects, that a matter was a certain way, and the subsequent generation analyzed the matter further and disputed the earlier view.Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, Trusting the Torah’s Sages, Chapter 4:
We find that Chazal themselves considered the wisdom of the gentile scholars equal to their own in the natural sciences. To determine who was right in areas where the gentile sages disagreed with their own knowledge, they did not rely on their tradition but on reason. Moreover they even respected the opinion of the gentile scholars, admitting when the opinion of the latter seemed more correct than their own.
Imagine if a scholar such as Humboldt had lived in their times and had traveled to the ends of the world for his biological investigations. If upon his return he would report that in some distant land there is a humanoid creature growing from the ground or that he had found mice that had been generated from the soil and had in fact seen a mouse that was half earth and half flesh and his report was accepted by the world as true, wouldn’t we expect Chazal to discuss the Torah aspects that apply to these instances? What laws of defilement and decontamination apply to these creatures?Chacham Yosef Chaim, Benayahu, Bava Batra 25b
Know that regarding what R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua say here regarding the motion of the sun, was said according to their intellectual assessment, according to whatever seemed true to them in the science of astronomy. And they did not determine these things and establish them as true; rather, each went according to whatever appeared to him in accordance with his principles of astronomy; they did not say these things as a tradition from their teachersSo, let’s define an Yid who lives safely avoiding major sins according to anyone.
First, he should not be angry at all. That’s by all opinions A’Z. 2nd, he should not disparage any other group of Yidden who are shomer shabbos by some opinion because they are in danger of a cherem if that other group is announced kosher.
Is eating treif a biggie? Is there a shechita that is kosher by all opinions? super-glatt.
Hametz on Pesach is a thing. Luckily, Mishna tells us not to worry about mice from neighbors, otherwise there will be no end.
How many times we would need to read zecher Amalek to satisfy all opinions? And will we violate tircha detzibura by some opinions while doing that?
On the main topic of believing in Gemorah medicine. I am not going to hunt for quotes, but I would think that Rambam himself demonstrates same attitude that his son is referring to. He is clearly using science of his time. Also, Gemora itself describes multiple cases of Amoraim knowing or not knowing various medical facts and relying on factual proofs to make decisions. Just study Shmuel’s approach and try to describe how he would behave in our times. I think he would go to medical school.
Also, just a simple observation that amoraim argue with each other on all kind of points makes it clear that none of them has access to the absolute truth on anything. Their overall approach to the argument is such that they are able to develop a coherent system of making decisions. And even then, they leave multiple questions without a clear answer or to defer to Eliahu. This is indisputable and should be a starting point for any logical argument on the topic.
>> In fact, most of Ashkenazi Jewry can have their DNA traced to about 350 people in Germany in the 1300-1400s. Which is why there is a relatively high number of Recessive diseases among Ashkenazi Jews. Be that as it may, we still do not differ much from the Non-Jews of the Mediterranean area. (arabs, etc.)
the fact that Ashkenazim come from a small group of _men_ (the way I heard it, more variety and European admixture on female side) makes us different from even Sephardim. Mathematically, think about this way – you have a large multi-dimensional population. Take a 100 random samples – distribution of that small sample will be different from the whole population. That is, you can find some out of 1,000s variables that will separate these 100 from the whole. With time, those differences are reinforced. So, it is not by chance that medieval Europe starts depicting Jews with specific features, like long noses. I don’t think Romans or Persians ascribed specific features to Jews.
And also diet and public health make impact. It is in halakha, I forgot the source, that modern Jews are weaker – because weak children are saved by medicine. In older times, people who have a hard time fasting for a day would not be asking shailos about it, as they would have died in childhood on a day there was not enough food.
which Gemora are we talking about, btw? I do not see a reference ^
DaMoshe, I tihnk R Moshe answers your question in the teshuva where he argues that it is not necessary to go to college. He says, paraphrasing, you do not need to try to live like top 5%, you can live like a median American without going to college, as the median American did not at the time. He is clearly not suggesting the charity route or pas b’melach, or at least he is conscious that it will not be accepted by the majority.
Also, please differentiate between pas b’melach, which is a very respectable approach, v. relying on scholarships and government welfare.
> when he saw that the destruction of the mitzyim brought the Jews to emunah.
That was when Yidden saw the Mitzri army fully destroyed. At this point, it is appropriate to continue tehilim for safety of Yidden in EY.
akperma> So stop worry, and say Baruch ha-Shem that Lashon Kodesh is a living language, richly able to absorb new words, and never suffered the fate of Etruscan or Minoan Linear A (languages which never get butchered).
excellent point. BTW, I think theory says that language changes more in the center while preserved more in far-flung provinces. That is why, American English is closer to old English than British (excluding NorthEast that continued communicating with Britain and getting new sounds from the metropolis). This might explain relative fidelity of Teimeni Hebrew.
But, generally, Hashem put us in this world to develop it and humanity, with some side turns, is successful at that, and the language is supposed to give us tools to reflect current reality. Gemorah is full of words related to agriculture. Surely, Amoraim of our times would add words related to math, chemistry, computers, and AI.
So, it sounds like a better option is to use the app or park in Monsey,
Dr Pepper, Catholics do not believe in divorce
YS> Neither did I hear any of those other Rabbonim say such a thing
This is a serious matter, more important than potential A’Z! YS who seems to be a reliable poster says that the claim of what was in podcast is incorrect. Could we clear this item? Hopefully, this a misunderstanding/misinterpretation or a poster referred to a different podcast? Otherwise, using a deliberate wrong reference makes this whole discussion meaningless. Why argue with people who can not be trusted in their argument? I hope there are other volunteers to listen to the podcast (not me, sorry).
I don’t know guys if you can convince each other, but can we agree on this:
apparently, Pres B was not in a good condition for a couple of years, getting worse with time, a lot of people suspected that, but
a “blue wall” of advisors together with media were able to maintain the mainstream view that the President is functioning OK…A day after Pres B admitted his condition, there were multiple well-sourced articles describing the situation. For example,
President visited Dem meeting in, I think, Oct 2021, to lobby for his infrastructure bill. Congressmen could not hear what he was saying,
and what they heard, was not comprehensible. After President left, Ms Pelosi got up and said “here is what President wanted to say” …
President did not speak to Congressmen after that. This was in front of 200 people and this did not become public knowledge. I think it
is frightening that the government can keep people reassured of a falsehood for quite some time. And if they were to ditch the debates, President would have made it to elections. Were he to have a better economy or suddenly a win in Ukraine, he could have won another term. So, now the group of people who created this charade (to include cabinet, VP Harris, D congressmen, media) are moving on to the next candidate without being
accountable for what they did. Ds would be better off at the convention by electing a clean candidate – Josh Shapiro or exCTL, for example.someone said> ? Personally, I wouldn’t want to have a belief that many shittos would deem the person an apikorus — even if according to another shitta he wouldn’t be deemed an apikorus.
I presume this person would not eat a kugel unless there are all haskamos on it. What if someone considers it treif?
So, Melech Shlomo had Sephardi consonants, Teimeni Ayin, Litvish vowels and Yakkish knowledge?
skripka > Eliyahu question isn’t a question, because he only ever came to my rebba. The stories about other rebbas are made up
catch-22: You just described the attitude that stops Eliahu from coming!
I am confused with the statement that there is no difference between Jew and non-Jew. There are genetic differences between nations. There are nations that do not tolerate milk or alcohol.
Maybe you mean that a non-Jew may convert and will he acquire Jewish traits? That maybe not what sources mean, giving a general statement about Jews in general … But even then, if someone changes his lifestyle from hunting & heavy drinking to sitting with a sefer and drinking weekly, his condition will change.
Another interesting question: absorption of iron is decreased when milk is consumed. Iron comes from meat that was historically limited … So, Jews might be better at absorbing iron, leading to major metabolic differences.
Right. We should check with Mossad every morning whether there is a reason for no tachanun based on whatever else they are doing.
When I asked once, I was told – you can say tachanun now, but will not need for Mincha …
I heard Waterbury yeshiva is equipped to deal with boys whom other yeshivas fail.
As R Kestenbaum of that yeshiva writes “we are losing our resh lakishes”. We don’t know the circumstances, but you also need to consider whether it is the best for your child to be in this place where they do not want him. He might be better at a place like Waterbury or learning with his parents and private tutors. See if a change improves his situation. Deal with the child first, do not get distracted to deal with the yeshiva.
without going into kabbalistic issues, effect of medical treatment differ based on genetics and cultural norms. Some examples
– there are certain foods that people eat and tolerate based on their genetic history. Jews would be way different from majority of USA population in terms of the diet, and thus microbiome …
– effect of treatment depends on how one follows the regimen and diet. R Salanter was known to follow doctor recommendation to a minute …
– psychological effects. A book on ethnic psychology has chapters on different ethnicities, I scanned the Jewish chapter – for most people, the doctor gives instructions to every family member how he should behave in different situations. Not so Jews: they will sit together and discuss each others roles instead of just following their own instructions …Bottom line, we can read Melech Shlomo, but might not understand him if meeting in person… Of course, everyone thinks he will because he surely speaks the genuine version of loshon kodesh …
And, also, how is Eliahu communicating with tzadikim – does he speak a different loshon with each of them?
On a more pragmatic note – is there research in how old Hebrew sounded? I heard simulations of old English … A simple thought would be that a version that differentiates between more sounds is more likely to be genuine, such as Teimani ayn, and patach/kamatz, but I am sure linguists have more to say.
spot on,
to start, see below some numbers from Annual Statistical Report on Ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) Society in Israel 2023 by Lee Cahaner Gilad Malach
does not answer our questions directly, but gives some statistics2023 population – hareidi 1.3 mln (14% of Israel) in yeshiva/kollel 145K in college 17K (3K post-graduate)
poverty rate 34%, 15% for other Jews (OJ)
monthly income per capita 3900 NIS, OJ 7400 NIS
monthly expenditure 3000 NIS, OJ 5200
employed 25-66: men 55% (haredi women and OJ 80-85%)
income from employment: men 10K OJ 19K, women 8K, OJ 12Kspot > Are they not entitled to a drop back for their yeshivos?
a group of people who work less than the average population will generally pay less in taxes, and as coffee mentions, they use other services that are covered by taxes. More significantly, hpw can one dream about supporting Torah Learning by forcibly taking money from other Jews?
Why can’t we have people paying for their own learning, like many Amoraim did, or a genuine Zevulun/Issachar partnership where both parties willingly share zechus?
> Jill was married to someone else when Biden started living with her.
Is she also catholic, by the way?
apparently, some snakes some times can give birth years after mating. What is the point of gemorah polemics with the scientists? There is no such argument about donkeys – everyone knows that, right? Snakes are harder, but it is easy to take one snake and watch it. The greek scientist says that it took him years to study the topic. Maybe, the discussion is about those rare cases, rather than a typical case that can be easily observed.
> The Torah says that gender is determined by the woman.
Well, the men sends out multiple options of males and females, and – as usual in life – the woman has a final word which of them is taken 🙂
skripka > were experts in THE SCIENCE OF THAT TIME
Chazal did not always follow everything the “current” science said, modulating it with masorah and common sense that not all scientists have. Creation v. eternal world would be one example.
Right, so if takes upon herself to serve her father first, the husband can stop that 😉
yeshiva man (?) > If the American government would decide to suddenly not give any of these benefits to people who are learning in yeshiva or kollel, I would certainly think that is wicked discrimination.
Many of benefits you listed are intended to help people who are not able to work and also for those who study to be able to support themselves. So, you might or might not be within the law by using these funds for other purposes, but you are definitely not using them the way voters intended. So, as you describe this as “normal”, you need to rethink whether Torah approves of such crooked ways. It is well may be that perception of how one could use public assistance is skewed by the person’s environment. While many sub-cultures in US would not take public assistance unless they can’t find other work, there are also communities where using that assistance is normalized as part of life over several generations…
If these laws also provide benefits for people involved in religious/spiritual studies, please provide a reference, I’ll be happy to change my opinion.
RCP has now state polls for Harris and they are very similar to Biden
Battlegrounds Trump Harris Spread
Wisconsin 48.0 47.3 Trump +0.7
Pennsylvania 48.2 44.6 Trump +3.6
Michigan 47.0 45.5 Trump +1.5
Arizona 49.7 43.3 Trump +6.4
Georgia 48.5 44.0 Trump +4.5
Trump Harris
Betting Odds 57.1 35.1of course, these numbers were very stable for Trump/Biden, and we can expect more volatility now as people learn about Harris, and she might get some from convention and VP choice.
I think Eshes Chail summarizes it pretty well.
Ex-CTL,
for a lawyer, you are pretty loose with laws. HIPAA applies to medical professionals.What you are saying that we descended to the depth of China and USSR, where leader’s health was a state secret. I can give some slack to cabinet members – they serve the President and most of them can not earn parnosah outside of the government, so they say what they have to keep their jobs. I am not saying it is ethical to mislead the country for several years, but at least I understand. She is a politician. Even as she was selected by Biden, she can not be fired by him. She is there to be a responsible political voice. If she knew that Biden is not capable of running the country and continued publicly saying the opposite, she has no excuses, and should pay political price for that. If she did not know, then it will tell us how involved and understanding she is. I think it is important to find out and you are in the unique position to bring clarity.
Israeli newspapers end it with Hey, so it is not exactly Amalek
but pretty close