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anIsraeliYidParticipant
It’s interesting how the current mess about a Rosh Yeshiva calling MK Lipmann a Rasha could have been avoided by simply listening to a Chazal – “Chachamim – Hizaharu b’divreichem!”
Note that Chazal were specifically addressing those they called Chachamim in their statement – an acknowledgement that even those who are truly Chachamim can sometimes speak unthinkingly.
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantYW Moderator 007 – are you going to appologize for calling MK Lipmann a Rasha, now that the RY of Ner Yisrael who initially called him such has appologized?
As to why you should not post opinions as a moderator – as an individual, your posting is clearly only representing yourself. As a moderator, you represent the site as a whole. Are you saying that YWN’s policy is that MK Lipmann is a Rasha?
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantHealth – stub one’s toe, bend a finger – what’s the difference? The point of the Gemara is that even the most minor of movements is the Ratzon of HKBH. It’s a stretch to read that Gemara as saying that only punishments are from Him. The reference to stubbing a toe is more logically read as including something as minor as stubbing a toe rather than exluding non-punishment effects.
Re: your anti-Zionist posts – Have you ever even opened any of the seforim of Rabbonim who supported Zionism? You keep repeating that it’s Kefira and Avoda Zara, but have not given on-point responses when others have stated why they believe otherwise. I agree that there are Shitos that disagree with Zionism, and have learned both sides of the issue before reaching my own conclusions – but I made sure that I had the knowledge to make an informed decission. What about you?
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantThank you, RoB.
Re: the Chasam Sofer I referenced:
We all know the psukim in Yirmiyahu (part of the Haftora on the second day of Rosh Hashana) “Kol berama nishma”, which describe how Rachel is heard, weeping for her children who have been sent into Galus. Hashem then answers her saying that she should cease her weeping as there _is_ hope – “Veshavu Banim l’gulam” – the children will return to their home in E”Y.
The Medrash on these psukim explain that when the Jews went into Galus when Bayis Rishon was destroyed, all of the Avos and Imahos came to HKBH to ask for mercy, but were rejected – after the Jews had set up idols in the Beis HaMikdash, HKBH decided that they were not worthy of His Midas HaRachamim. Rachel then stood up and said, “When my sister was substituted for me when I was supposed to marry Ya’akov, not only did I not object, I gave her the secret codes that had been aranged with Ya’akov so as not to embarass her. Therefore, the same way I showed mercy when a rival was brought into my house, you should show mercy even though a rival was brought into yours.” Upon hearing this, HKBH conceded, and responded that yes, V’shavu Banim l’gvulam.
The Chasam Sofer has a serious question on this. Yirmiyahu was not the only Navi at the time of the Churban – Yeshaya and Yechezkel were Nevi’im at that time as well, and they too predict that there will be a Churban, a Geula, and the Jews will then return to E”Y – with no reference to Rachel needing to intercede to get this promise of Geula from HKBH. The question therefore is, what is Yirmiyahu telling us with this Nevu’a – what concession did Rachel “win” from HKBH?
The Chasam Sofer’s answer is beautiful. He says that in analyzing Yeshaya and Yechezkel, we find that they both say essentially the same thing – there will be a Churban, then a Ge’ula, then a return of the Jews to E”Y. The psukim in Yirmyahu, though, are different – there is _no_mention_ of there being a Ge’ula before the pasuk of “V’shavu Banim l’gvulam”. What Rachel had “won” with her arguement was a promise from HKBH that the Jews will begin returning to E”Y even _before_ there is a Ge’ula Shelema.
This was all written by the Chasam Sofer well before there was a Zionist movement, and in fact, the Chasam Sofer is generally considered the father of modern Chareidism. He is the “author” of the Chareidi mantra that “Chadash Assur min HaTorah” – and yet, this is his Vort. Based on this, can one still say that the ingathering of Jews made possible by the establishment of the State of Israel is really a “Ma’ase Satan”? HKBH uses many messangers; it seems, to my simple eye, that the secular Zionists were His unwitting messangers, and the State a tool in His hand, to accomplish His will.
May we be Zoche to the final Ge’ula Shelema B’Karov.
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantHaKatan – My original post was to point out that those who are most vocal against the State of Israel are generally those who say that the Holocaust was a punishment from HKBH for Zionism, but the success of the Zionist enterprise three years later was a Ma’ase Satan. Is there some masochistic streak in them, that anything bad that happens to Klal Yisrael is to be viewed as a deserved punishment from HKBH (for which they, of course, know the reason), while anything good that happens is viewed as a nefarious plot by the Satan to trip us up?
I can, in fact, postulate a different theory – perhaps the Holocaust was a punishment for not returning to E”Y when the Umos Ha’olam granted us the right to with the establishment of the Mandate by the League of Nations. As the representative of the will of the majority of nations of the world, moving to E”Y after the granting of the mandate would not have constituted “hisgo’arus ba’umos”, as the umos had explicitly granted permission for Jews to return. The establishment of the State was HKBH, in his infinite mercy, providing us with a second chance, with a TWO THIRDS majority of the UN approving the setting up of a state – so once again, no hisgo’arus.
There is no need to have all non-Jews agree to something for it not to be considered hisgo’arus, and it is not required for Jews to have no input on something that affects them – after all, otherwise, how would Jews be allowed to participate in any elections, even outside of Israel? Last I checked, the KJ populace has one of the highest participation percentages in the US, and doesn’t hesitate to throw its electoral weight around to get what it wants.
In summary – you have chosen a view based on your personal biases, and are unwilling to even consider anything else. “None is as blind as he who won’t see.”
A final point – you may want to look at the Chasam Sofer’s pshat in the whole story in Yirmiahu re: “Rachel Mevaka al Baneha” – it’s a beautiful pshat that fits with the Medrash and is highly relevant to this discussion. If I have time later today, I’ll try to post it.
An Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantPopa – thank you for the subject line correction.
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantAmazing how some people seem to believe that hashgacha pratis stopped in 1948. Everything before that – Retzon haBoreh. Afterwards? A Ma’ase Satan. Just amazing….
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantIt’s Rav Druckman, BTW.
A(valid) point made by one of the leading DL Rabbonim recently was that every shnook who gets elected to the Knesset from a Chareidi party is automatically referred to as Rav so-and-so in all Chareidi media, while true Talmidei Chachamim from the DL community are commonly referred to in such media by their last name only, with no title. While you may or may not agree with the piskei halacha of the DL Rabbonim, they at least deserve proper Kavod.
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantFirst Republic Bank does not charge any foreign withdrawal fees, and reimburses for fees charged by the bank whose ATM was used. The exchange rate you get is the full sha’ar yatzig or interbank rate (not sure which) – better than any moneychanger.
Only downside is that you need to keep a $3,500 average monthly balance to get this.
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantVochindik – you are absolutely correct; the two tragedies you mention are clearly the Retzon HaBorei. We have Chazal who give us a reason why HKB”H allowed the Beis HaMikdash to be destroyed, and are still doing our soul searching re: the Churban that took place in Europe. My point is that to dismiss the creation of the State of Israel as a “Ma’ase Satan”, especially when there were clear miricles involved in its creation, is to deny the role of HKB”H in running the world.
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantDid hashgacha pratis end in 1948? If the State of Israel exists, it’s obviously only because of the Retzon HaBorei – and the Nissim that have taken place, firstly for it to even have been established, and secondly to have continued to survive and thrive, should teach us all something. As Ma’aminim, we believe that HKB”H rules over all – and it is clearly His will that Israel exist.
That is not to say that there is not significant room for improvement – we all MUST strive to improve the situation in E”Y. However, the way to do that is to engage with the state and general population – not to close ones self off from the greater Israeli society. After all, thevast majority of Israeli society is just as Jewish as the frummest Chareidi – and we have a Chiyuv to show them that “deracheha darkei noam”. Yes, there is room for improvement – but rather than just standing there and yelling “gevaldt” about how bad things are, we should all go out and do what we can to improve it.
I put my money where my mouth is by moving to Israel (with a family) despite the difficulties – after 120 years, I want to be able to say that yes, I did do something other than sit on my rear to improve Artzeinu HaKedosha.
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantOn the ball – he is a Rosh Yeshiva that all were recently saying Tehilim for and who had a name added. He has now BH made a remarkable recovery (my sons saw him in Camp Agudah this summer). I was his Talmid many years ago when he gave the Chulin shiur in Yeshiva. Does that give you enough of a hint?
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantThe line I’ve used is “for religious reasons, my wife doesn’t shake hands with men, and I don’t shake hands with women”. By first mentioning that my wife doesn’t shake hands with men, I’ve avoided making them think that I think that women are lesser than I am.
FWIW, I can also say that I was told by a well-known Rosh Yeshiva, widely accepted as one of the premier Poskim in the American Yeshivish world, that if it’s necessary, I can shake hands with a woman in a business context, since it’s not Derech Chiba. Accordingly, when necessary or to avoid causing offense (such as when traveling in Europe, where religious restrictions are not as widely accepted), I’ll shake a woman’s extended hand – though I’ll not extend mine first.
Good luck to you,
an Israeli Yid
anIsraeliYidParticipantWrite or wrong – I sympathize with you. I also note that you may want to consult your Rav, or a Rav with experience dealing with similar situations, before rejecting another Derech for your son. Your fight is to keep him a Torah-observant Jew, and that and that alone should be your focus. Externals are nice, and keeping all the “syugim” that have been set up are important, but rejecting paths that have the potential to win the main battle because they don’t preserve the less key aspects may be a case of Tafasta Meruba.
Re: Rabbi Slifkin – he is unquestionably controversial and not for everyone. That being said, please do note that he has Haskamos on several of his books from Rav Yisrael Belsky. Additionally, there are those who reject his books in general, but say that if one has a need for such Hashkafos to answer questions in Emuna, they are acceptable as a Bdieved.
Hatzlacha Rabba,
an Israeli Yid
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