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Chinuch is not Tochacha. If it is, then the parents need a parenting class. Chinuch comes from both parents and a unified message must come from both parents (as well as all other partners in chinuch, yeshiva, school, shul rav etc). If father demands his daughter dress according to most stringent opinions and her mother does not, forget it.
I better read the article before I put words in the mouth of Rabbi Kelman, but I suspect he laments that fathers and husband are absent altogether, meaning no direction at all comes from the home in this matter, making the schools out to be the crazy machmirim and the home practically a free for all.
Would anyone disagree with the thrust of the message if we substitute kashrus for tznius as the subject for his article?
Cinderella, re: father/daughter, there is a mitzvah of chinuch. Regarding a wife, there is no chinuch, and quite frankly there isn’t much a husband can do if a wife refuses to listen (I think rav moshe z’l has a teshuva to someone whose wife wouldn’t cover her hair – he paskens, if I’m not mistaken, he is not obligated to divorce her – I believe that was specific question), but he is certainly obligated not to go along. What I suspect Rabbi Kelman was adressing was, silence is tacit approval, and they should not be silent, at the very least.
Charedi bashing? This is crazy bashing.
Does the article say anything about fathers constantly harping on tznius? I didn’t read it, but from the synopsis here and heard from others, it advocates no such thing.
I don’t believe the article states a father or husband should offer style advice, rather they should step in when necessary if the style violates the halachic standards of the household.
You might not tell your husband HOW to learn, but if you saw him studying something questionable, say the early writings of the church elders, you wouldn’t say anything?
Its not Rav Elyashiv we don’t trust. Just those who claim to speak in his name.
Yossi Sarids arguments against Gemara are not his original arguments. They can be found on many hate sites and at least one of the arguments used (the brachos) I believe can be traced back to martin luther (you can google these arguments and see where they take you). Recent events are not the source of the hatred in his article, but are likely the cause of him repeating them at this time.
Was Sarid ever exposed in a meaningful way to a yid or yiddishkeit that exemplified diracheha darchei noam?
Neo-Nazi and other jew haters have used these “proofs” against the legitimacy of the Torah for decades. I believe Martin Luther used the “brachos” argument to “prove” Jews hated non Jews.
That a Jew recycled these arguments is sad, but not surprising. Has this Sarid fellow ever been exposed to a yid or yiddishkeit that exemplified diracheha darchei noam in a meaningful way?
Rav Elyashic Shlita found content in the Mishpacha that he didn’t like or found objectionable? I highly doubt he ever read a single word of the publication. How did he find objectionable content?
Besides INN, have any of the “usual sources” for such bans, announced this? I cant even find this on INN.
Interesting.
“Women take their ways of dress very personally.”
Perfectly normal. Also perfectly normal for a father to ensure his family adheres to halacha. In fact, it is what halacha demands.
Which Rabbi Kelman wrote the article?
Didn’t see the article, but based on what you write, as a husband and father, I think it is obvious that this be the case, but sadly, I see it is often not the case.
I dont know much about any of the Gedolim who people anticipate some sort of statement from, but I feel I am correct when I say that they do not:
Listen to the radio
Read newspapers
Log on to YWN or any other website for news
Join in the “hock” in shul after davening
to be fully aware of what is going on. Someone must make them aware of what is going on. If they are not aware of what is going on, or the extent that something is going on, unless you ascribe some ruach hakodesh to them, how should they be aware of what is happening in the “street” and to comment on it as they see appropriate?
Anyone with more insight into how a kol koreh is formulated, please correct me if I am wrong.
The good riddance did not sit well with me either, and I tried posting a comment on the news site which apparently was not approved. I tried again within the last few minutes. Perhaps in this forum they will allow the comment.
My comment was “is this an editorial or a news story”.
Just curious. Who supposedly banned mishpacha?
Was this statement of the Rav shlita reported by anyone else, or is this an Arutz Sheva exclusive?
Is believing everything reported by Arutz Sheva one of the 13 Ikkarim?
What is unclear here that a statement from gedolim is necessary?
I’m waiting to eat breakfast until the gedolim issue a directive as to what I should eat.
Why do “the gedolim” have to issue a “statement” about anything? Is there something unclear or ambiguous that needs clarification here from gedolei hador?
But, they are NOT so yeshivish.
Answer the question. If you can’t, just say, I don’t know.
The way I interpret your requirement, Yagdil Torah is the yeshiva you should look into, followed closely by Chasan Sofer.
I dont know what state you live in, but every state has an agency that regulates and oversees banks. In NY it is the Department of Financial Services http://www.dfs.ny.gov/ whatever state you live in there is surely a similar agency that you can reach out to for guidance and to file a complaint. Banks are also federally regulated and if you want to pursue something against them on the federal level, call the office of your local congressman for the appropriate department within which agency to speak with and possibly file a complaint, if that is where you want to go.
It is also possible that their “handlers” have not told them what is going on.
Nesivos Chaim.
Why dont you answer my questions? Exactly what is TOO yeshivish? What makes something SHTARK litvish heimish as opopsed to shtark litvish or shatark heimish? Is it the amount of garlic in the cholent? Quite frankly, I have no idea what you mean, and I doubt you know what you mean either.
I think this is where the thread should be closed.
“R, or a C”
Red Sox and Cubs?
The wheels on the bus go round and round……
DY. I’ll bite. Doing what?
Health, you keep claiming the woman’s hair was uncovered. I understand you can’t post a link to such a picture even if you had one, however, every single video about the story in this thread shows a woman who is properly covered. There really is no point in going round and round here. It is what is already going on in RBS.
🙂
I think there should be a big kiddush in a local park this shabbos, with all residents of the city required to attend. The ladies of the city on one side, the men on the other. Let the women swap recipes, stories about their children, stories about their latest excursions to the mall, doctor or shiur or whatever it is woman talk about, while the men talk about the parsha, the current daf or sing zemiros (maybe even kumbaya, but I dont want to push the envelope). Perhaps a drasha from some of the local Rabbonim on what “sheves achim gam yachad” means and how to achieve it.
This is getting very childish, and sillier by the hour. I am waiting for someone to call someone a doodyhead and stick out their tongue.
I think the Jewish music industry should take a page from the non jewish music industry and sell singles. Personally, I wont pay $15 for a CD of 7-8 songs of which I only like one, I would pay 2 or 3 dollars for a song that I like though.
Exactly how much hair is “uncovered”, Rav Falk, who by many accounts follows the most stringent opinion at all times, writes the following….
“Hair which is difficult to contain in a regular well-fitted hair covering is halachically (according to law) exempt from this obligation. This refers to hair which grows on the temples next to the ear or on an exceptionally low hairline that extends below what a net or tiechel (scarf) would normally contain.”
The quote comes from Modesty- An Adornment for Life, Rabbi Pesach Eliyahu Falk (exact page number is somewhere in the 230s I believe, dont remember exactly where).
He continues….
“Although there is no obligation to cover such hair, nevertheless, if local shomrei mitzvos (observant Jews) are stringent and cover them, the halacha (law) obliges women who live in this locality to behave likewise.”
On the flip side…There is the opinion of Rav Moshe Z’l in E”H 1:58 (I dont do hebrew fonts) that seems to permit a woman to show one square tefach of hair. However, he adds that since a woman’s head, on average, is about two tefachim wide, she should not allow more than half of a tefach to stick out.
The question, I guess, boils down to who or what established/establishes minhag hamakom? Is minhag hamakom like Rav Moshe, or like the Poskim Rav Falk relies on (I dont remember who he quotes).
“pervert”
The proper term for grown men hanging around a girls elementary school.
Do you have reason to believe the Beis Din has nothing else to do with its stationary, other than to print a Siruv?
Are looking for a mesivta that meets all three requirements, is 2 out of 3 or even 1 out of three good enough? Despite the lack of punctuation, I understand you are looking for a mesivta that is
1)good
2)not too yeshivish
3)shtark litvish heimish
Can you tell us what is good in your eyes? A good group of rabbeim? A good english department? A good debate club? A good menahel?
Please define Yeshivish so we can tell you if it is too Yeshivish for you, or perhaps not yeshivish enough.
Please define litvish heimish? Once defined, we can determine if a place is shtark litvish heimish or just plain shvach litvish heimishe or perhaps just shtark.
“Well I posted there is a picture of her sitting on her couch…and her hair is showing”.
I have not seen any pictures, only videos. The videos I have seen show a woman whose hair is covered properly. Perhaps not properly to your liking or to the liking of some of her neighbors, that is not her issue though. As long as it meets the halachic requirements as explained to her by her family Rav, then she is doing everything proper.
“But let’s ignore the truth”
I did not ignore the possibility that you saw pictures that I have not seen, however, you seem to ignore the possibility that every video I have seen of this woman shows a woman with properly covered hair.
The original question was about wearing jeans on shabbos?
Perhaps they leave 10 minutes early to get the seudah ready?
“by and far most women aren’t dressed Tzinyusdik, eg. No hair covering, T-shirts with short sleeves, etc.”
I have no idea what video you saw, and certainly can not disagree with what you claim you saw. On the other hand, I have seen several videos of this 8 year old girl and her mother. Both are dressed appropriately, hair covered, hemlines covering the appropriates places etc… YES it is true, she was not dressed according to the rulings of chassidishe (and other yerushalmi)poskim, but she is not chassidishe and should not have to, even if those men insist on it. The more I hear people defend the spitter and his defenders the more I realize this is about control of an area, not about dressing according to halacha.
“Is it tzniut to be standing outside a girls school looking at 8 year old girls?”
Looking at 8 year old girls opens another can of worms. Looking at their mothers is bad enough.
It should be pointed out that the Chashmonaim killed those who brought “karbanos” to the greek gods, not women who may have dressed in a manner THEY do not deem proper but other legitimate poskim did. The men of Beis Shammai did not go around spitting at the women of Beis Hillel who wore things outside on shabbos that Beis Shammai felt was not a tachshit.
Not all poskim state that stocking must be whatever denier thick with seems up the back, or hold that sheitels are not valid hair covering, or that the shok is the entire area from the bottom of the knee to the ankle and so on. What this really boils down to is they have their minhagim and poskim and heaven help anyone who lives their life according to any other poskim and minhagim.
“If you are a police officer don’t go around wearing a UPS uniform.”
Yet, police officers and UPS drivers might wear jeans when not engaged in policing or delivering packages.
Personally, I find my jeans great for when I am painting the living room, mowing the lawn (if one can call my patch of grass a lawn) or changing the oil in the car (ok, I admit, I have no idea how to do that, but if I did, I would wear jeans when doing so), wouldn’t want to ruin any other pants in the closet.
The 8 year old girl?
I think the mother of this 8 year old girl should invite the spitter and his family for a shabbos seudah.
I think the mother of this 8 year old girl should invite the spitter and his family for a shabbos seudah.
I think the mother of this 8 year old girl should invite the spitter and his family for a shabbos seudah.
@42. Thanks for the tip 🙂